240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB hats!

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vol.2
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by vol.2 »

Guile wrote:
vol.2 wrote:
You have to set Lakka to RGUI and change the resolution in video settings before you hook it up to the CRT.
I changed it to RGUI and set the resolution to 2048x240 but I got the same result. It's just a bunch of horizontal lines with the lakka flower broken up and looking like it resets and tries to boot. I also tried this config https://www.retrorgb.com/rpi240p.html but again same result.

Maybe my converter isn't compatible or something else is going on.
I don't think super resolutions are going to work with a HDMI converter (on a Pi4). Those worked on the Pi3 with older versions of Lakka/RP. The people in this thread who have had success doing what you are trying to do are using mode 1, 8, which is 720x240, 4:3.

Also, sometimes Lakka gets "confused" and the config file gets corrupted. You may have to periodically wipe the image and start over as you switch settings around. Once you find a setting that works, it should be fairly stable.
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Bahn Yuki
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by Bahn Yuki »

Guile wrote:
Bahn Yuki wrote: hdmi_group=1
hdmi_mode=8
Works fine for me on the RPI4(latest nightly Lakka) with my HDMI to YPbPr adapter. Colors look a bit washed out due to excessive brightness and I've tried all the pixel encoding modes. I have to turn the brightness down on my TV to compensate.

Let me know if you can get Vulkan working on your end. Seems to fail for me on 240p, shame too because Vulkan gives a nice performance bump since Hard GPU sync is FREE. Using it normally(1080p) made a big difference in some cores.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x85KnZIh4p8
sedavenp wrote:
Thank you Bahn Yuki! This worked for me. I think the issues that came up for me had to do with retropie and the emulationstation front end. Didn't run into any issues running the most recent lakka nightly build and hdmi_group=1 hdmi_mode=8. Can confirm that portta hdmi to vga -> sync combiner works well to get 240p rgbs from the pi 4.

Didn't have any luck with Vulkan, only worked for me with the gl driver.
I put Lakka on a separate SD card to test this out on my pi4 and it worked fine from 1080p hdmi but when I try to edit the config with hdmi_group=1 hdmi_mode=8, it looks like it has trouble booting. I connected it to my StarTech hdmi to ypbpr converter and it shows a garbled image via component. I can see the Lakka flower logo through the garbled mess but it looks like it resets and never gets to the blue retroarch screen.
What's your build date? I using arm 4/26

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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by Guile »

vol.2 wrote:
I don't think super resolutions are going to work with a HDMI converter (on a Pi4). Those worked on the Pi3 with older versions of Lakka/RP. The people in this thread who have had success doing what you are trying to do are using mode 1, 8, which is 720x240, 4:3.

Also, sometimes Lakka gets "confused" and the config file gets corrupted. You may have to periodically wipe the image and start over as you switch settings around. Once you find a setting that works, it should be fairly stable.
So I should set the resolution to 720x240? It's weird because if I set it to group 1, mode 8 it never even gets to the rgui screen only the lakka flower like it's failing to properly set a resolution in the first place.
Bahn Yuki wrote:What's your build date? I using arm 4/26
I'm not sure how to check the build date. I got the latest version for the pi4 from lakka.tv version 2.3.2.
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vol.2
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by vol.2 »

Guile wrote: So I should set the resolution to 720x240?
I think the best way to start off is to set it in Video->Scaling to Integer=On, and make it X1 in both the X and Y directions. That should, in theory, get you a visible image if everything else is setup correctly.

But you should go with whatever Bahn Yuki says here, he has a lot more experience with the HDMI-VGA setup than I do.
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by Bahn Yuki »

Guile wrote:
vol.2 wrote:
I don't think super resolutions are going to work with a HDMI converter (on a Pi4). Those worked on the Pi3 with older versions of Lakka/RP. The people in this thread who have had success doing what you are trying to do are using mode 1, 8, which is 720x240, 4:3.

Also, sometimes Lakka gets "confused" and the config file gets corrupted. You may have to periodically wipe the image and start over as you switch settings around. Once you find a setting that works, it should be fairly stable.
So I should set the resolution to 720x240? It's weird because if I set it to group 1, mode 8 it never even gets to the rgui screen only the lakka flower like it's failing to properly set a resolution in the first place.
Bahn Yuki wrote:What's your build date? I using arm 4/26
I'm not sure how to check the build date. I got the latest version for the pi4 from lakka.tv version 2.3.2.
You'll see it in my video. Looking at the nightly builds they now have 4/29. 2.3.2 uses Linux 4.9, the nightly builds are 5.1.

https://nightly.builds.lakka.tv/by_devices/RPi4.arm/

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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by Guile »

Bahn Yuki wrote:You'll see it in my video. Looking at the nightly builds they now have 4/29. 2.3.2 uses Linux 4.9, the nightly builds are 5.1.

https://nightly.builds.lakka.tv/by_devices/RPi4.arm/

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Thanks I finally got it working with the 4/29 version and hdmi_group=1 hdmi_mode=8.

Still have a few issues though, with my converter it still shows Input:Component permanently on my tv which is very annoying. I don't know if it's an issue with the tv or the converter but I'm leaning towards the converter. I might try a cheap one and see if it fixes it.

I also can't get the scaling quite right. It looks squashed at 4:3 and the closest to normal is oddly 4:1 but it cuts off some of the image on the right. How do you set the actual scaling per core? None of the presets look right at all to me.

The picture looks very nice but I noticed that there are some issues like in Mario Bros. for NES it looks like some of the lines are doubled and too thick like in the bricks of the castle. It was also still stuttering at what looked like exactly once per second when scrolling fast.
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by Fudoh »

I also can't get the scaling quite right. It looks squashed at 4:3 and the closest to normal is oddly 4:1 but it cuts off some of the image on the right. How do you set the actual scaling per core? None of the presets look right at all to me.
Retroarch assumes a square pixel ratio, so when you output in HDMI_MODE=8 Retroarch assumes a 3:1 screen ratio. That's why you have to use a custom viewport setting instead of the predefined aspect ratios. For the majority of classic systems a vertical viewport setting of 224 is fine and the horizontal one should be in the 660 px range.

That fact that you're seeing doubled lines is likely cause by the emuators scaling to full 240 height because you haven't defined the custom viewport setting.
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by fernan1234 »

Guile wrote:It was also still stuttering at what looked like exactly once per second when scrolling fast.
This part is an inevitable drawback of any kind of output means on a Raspberry Pi. The output modes are all standard 60hz refresh rate, whereas original retro systems like the NES etc. were all slightly above or below 60hz, and so when the output is 60hz some frames will be dropped or doubled, which you see as that periodic stuttering.

Only real hardware and other solutions with full control over the video output like FPGA-based emulation and custom GPU profiles can produce the original non-standard refresh rates.

As to your aspect ratio problem, don't use any of the presets but choose custom with integer scale on, and try 2x or 3x horizontal, 1x vertical.
edit: alternatively, try choosing "core defined" or whatever it's called, or 4:3, and set the picture to 16:9 on the display, sometimes that works to be just right, worth a try.
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by Fudoh »

At least half the blame belongs to Retroarch, since it wouldn't really be too hard to just sync the emu to the output refresh rate instead.
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by fernan1234 »

I think RA is capable of doing that, the limitation is probably all the way down at the OS or whatever dictates the supported video modes, so this would be something to take to the Raspberry Pi Foundation, but they won't care.
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by vol.2 »

If you go into Setting-Video-Output and click on the reported refresh rate, it will try to lock it to that. I found that to be absolutely necessary for some cores. I think the SEGA stuff had sound issues until I monkeyed with the refresh rate settings.
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by fernan1234 »

vol.2 wrote:If you go into Setting-Video-Output and click on the reported refresh rate, it will try to lock it to that. I found that to be absolutely necessary for some cores. I think the SEGA stuff had sound issues until I monkeyed with the refresh rate settings.
This may help with compatibility or something on the emulator side, but it does nothing for what the Pi actually outputs.
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by Guile »

I tried the Portta hdmi to component adapter and it's not working for me. If I connect the pi4 with hdmi_group=1 and hdmi_mode=8 I get a bright rolling picture like it's not syncing correctly. So I tested it with 240p passthrough from the ossc and it's just a bunch of lines. So then I reconnect it to the pi4 and the weird thing is it then shows a more stable image with the top distorted but then it quickly loses sync again and goes back to the bright rolling image.

Very weird, did I get a faulty unit or do some of them not do 240p and it depends? It's like it temporarily almost gets correct 240p from the ossc but then reverts and it doesn't work at all when I connect it directly to the ossc.
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vol.2
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by vol.2 »

Not sure if anyone else has been using the Portta component video adapters besides you. It's possible that it just doesn't work and you are the lucky one to find out first.
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by Fudoh »

I have 3 or 4 of them in actual use and I did recommend them over any other hdmi to component converter I tested, because they're the only ones that did work all the time, with both 480i and 240p. Especially the generic ones (rounded top, no branding) always gave me trouble when booting into 480i and would only work once I switch around resolutions a few times.

I'm currently running one on a Pi setup, one with the Retrotink 5X and another one just as an analogue breakout after a HDMI matrix. All with no problems whatsoever.

I would probably say that yours is faulty, but you could try setting the global resolution to HDMI_MODE=6 instead (so the GUI boots into 480i) to see if that works differently for you - just as a quick test.

Can you post a link to the actual Portta model you bought?
Last edited by Fudoh on Wed May 05, 2021 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guile
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by Guile »

Fudoh wrote:I have 3 or 4 of them in actual use and I did recommend them over any other hdmi to component converter I tested, because they're the only ones that did work all the time, with both 480i and 240p. Especially the generic ones (rounded top, no branding) always gave me trouble when booting into 480i and would only work once I switch around resolutions a few times.

I'm currently running one on a Pi setup, one with the Retrotink 5X and another one just an analogue breakout after a HDMI matrix. All with no problems whatsoever.

I would probably say that yours is faulty, but you could try setting the global resolution to HDMI_MODE=6 instead (so the GUI boots into 480i) to see if that works differently for you - just as a quick test.

Can you post a link to the actual Portta model you bought?
I'll try setting it to 480i and seeing if that at least works.

Just tried it with mode=6 and it doesn't show a coherent picture, the resolution looks different but it's broken up into many vertical lines and unreadable.

Here is the link to the one I bought.
https://www.amazon.com/Portta-Converter ... 00A8FIQXA/
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by kitty666cats »

https://texelec.com/product/lo-tech-rpi-vga-board/

I pulled the trigger on one of these interesting-looking VGA hats, they are now only $15 USD and with the coupon code “RETROP10OFF” I dug up on their site it knocked off another 10% (worth looking around the site, there’s some neat SNES controller adapter etc).

Will eventually check in and let you folks know how it goes :)
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vol.2
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by vol.2 »

Sounds good!

Always welcome any new devices to play with on the Pi. 8)
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by kitty666cats »

vol.2 wrote:Sounds good!

Always welcome any new devices to play with on the Pi. 8)
Yeah, I am quite excited to mess around with it!

For when it arrives - anyone got a copypasta of a nicely working config.txt intended for the analog GPIO hats / got their own image with settings nicely dialed-in? Since this is technically supposed to be a 8:8:8 hat, I’m not sure if some of the 6:6:6 images out there will play nicely (IDK if different GPIO pins are implemented or whatever. I have become very rusty when it comes to Pi stuff, been letting mine gather dust for many months!)

Still rocking a Pi 3B+, by the way
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by fernan1234 »

kitty666cats wrote:Still rocking a Pi 3B+, by the way
If you have a 3B+ why not use the HDMI out method suggested in the OP? It's free of the limitations that any GPIO hat has (such as the inability to switch between 240p and 480i). You can just copy the config.txt from there and it should just work.
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by vol.2 »

I suspect kitty is just playing around with stuff and wants to try it out. I can post a config tomorrow.

No, you don't want to use a 666 image for a 24 bit hat, the hat is expecting signaling on different pins.
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by kitty666cats »

fernan1234 wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:Still rocking a Pi 3B+, by the way
If you have a 3B+ why not use the HDMI out method suggested in the OP? It's free of the limitations that any GPIO hat has (such as the inability to switch between 240p and 480i). You can just copy the config.txt from there and it should just work.
Yeah, for the reasons vol.2 said - nobody seems to have really tried these things out, I like to try stuff out and document it for any future parties who may be hesitant
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by vol.2 »

Try this with the 24 bit hat. You might have to adjust the timing a bit for your particular TV:

dtoverlay=dpi24
enable_dpi_lcd=1
display_default_lcd=1
dpi_output_format=519


dpi_group=2
dpi_mode=87

dpi_timings=320 1 16 30 34 240 1 2 3 22 0 0 0 60 0 6400000 1
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by fernan1234 »

Wouldn't a 640x240 timing be better than 320x240? Or even better 720x240?
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vol.2
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by vol.2 »

You can go up to about 1920x240 on a Pi 3 B+ with most emulators. I wouldn't push a N64 or PSX emulator past 720 at the very most.

I've got a couple super resolutions you can try if you don't already have modelines worked out. You still might need to make small changes.

dpi_timings=1920 1 52 208 260 240 1 6 10 6 0 0 0 60 0 38400000 1

This is probably too much for a Pi 3, but a 4 will push this many pixels no problem:

dpi_timings=3840 1 109 343 343 224 1 16 3 19 0 0 0 60 0 72925291 1
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by kitty666cats »

Thanks fellas! Still waiting on that mysterious VGA hat but it should probably arrive within the week, will be away the 2nd-4th but will try it ASAP and share my thoughts!
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by kitty666cats »

Loooooong overdue (life has been hectic, started a new job though!) but I tested that VGA hat with the settings vol. 2 posted and it works perfectly fine! I wouldn't say there is much discernible difference in video quality versus a HDMI to VGA DAC, but I can say with confidence that it is absolutely a viable option.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CRM_s20lulU ... =copy_link

Obvi a HDMI DAC still wins out if you’re planning on rocking something 480i, but I really just use Pi for super-old gen games & KODI at 720p/768p

Just used the simple 320x240 timings so far, they worked fine for me but maybe I will try out the super resolutions too :)
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by kitty666cats »

Can I drop runcommands directly into config.txt prior to first boot on a fresh image for switching to/from the 1920 super resolution when using a GPIO hat...? The super resolution worked out well for me, too (just need to dial in each RA core to 5x width upon first use and save the configuration)
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vol.2
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by vol.2 »

Any lines in config.txt are parsed one at a time and stop when there is a line break or a carriage return, and any subsequent line (a modeline for example) of the same type will simply overwrite the previous line of that type.

There is another file in the boot sector called cmdline.txt which can be used to parse instructions on startup, I would imagine that this is the place for stuff like that maybe?

However, I haven't ever done that before so I can't be of any more help. If no one here can directly address your question, I would recommend going over to the retropie forums because they probably do something like that and can explain it. The raspberry pi forums would be the place to go if you wanted to figure out the cmdline.txt file on your own, and you just need guidance on how to use it.
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Re: 240p via HDMI on Raspberry Pi to RGBS, no need for RGB h

Post by jitu »

That was a lot of reading and catching up...ngl I had to skim through a lot of it. With super res, I have my own set of issues with my setup.

Here is how I have mine hooked up: [rpi 3b+] --> [hdmi to vga] --> [jpac] --> [arcade monitor]

There are couple of things that I am not successfully able to set.

Issue #1: Setting emulationstation res different from retroarch res. With default theme, 240p makes it difficult to read texts in ES but games look great in RA. Tried to set 480i for ES by entering modeline in runcommand start and end files but retropie just don't seem to override config.txt where I have modeline for outputting 240p. So, for now, I ended up finding a different theme with large fonts to accommodate ES.

Issue #2: Super res causes display to have what looks like horizontal sync issue. The screen is split up in two. Goal is to achieve the sharpest image I could possibly get but I am wondering if rpi 3b+ is capable of handling it?

What are my options here? Can I get super res with my setup?
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