Downconvert 480p Component to 480i Component

[thetallguy24]

I know the VSC models can take computer signals (RGBs, RGBHV) and downscan it to 480i but is there a similar device that can take 480p ypbpr (component) signals and convert them down to 480i?

What I want to do is take 480p component signals from PS2 and Xbox360, split the signal. One will go to my SD CRT converted (lagless) to 480i, and the other will pas through as 480p signal to my capture card.

[thetallguy24]

Actually, is the VSC 900 an option?

[Fudoh]

No, the VSC900 is just a racksized "deluxe" edition of the 700.

While the VSCs suppoed RGsB input (so technically a component signal will work on them), they don't decode the YUV colorspace, so you end up with complete wrong colors.

There are video processors out there that support 480i output while offering a multitude of inputs (TVOnes for example), but it's hard to match the down conversion quality of the VSCs, so you're likely best off with a setup like this

component source > component splitter > transcoder > VSC > 480i into CRT.

Given that the VSCs are really dirt cheap your only expensive is the splitter (affordable) and the transcoder.

[thetallguy24]

No, the VSC900 is just a racksized "deluxe" edition of the 700.

While the VSCs suppoed RGsB input (so technically a component signal will work on them), they don't decode the YUV colorspace, so you end up with complete wrong colors.

So the VSC 900 manual is incorrect? It says it accepts component. The other VSC models do not say this like the 900 does. The inputs on the back also seems like it does

https://www.extron.com/download/files/u ... C900_D.pdf

[SavagePencil]

...what’s a good transcoder for this?

[thetallguy24]

...what’s a good transcoder for this?

Xselect d4 or audio authority 9A62

[Dochartaigh]

So the VSC 900 manual is incorrect? It says it accepts component. The other VSC models do not say this like the 900 does. The inputs on the back also seems like it does

I have a VSC 900 (been meaning to sell actually), but I can't remember if I ever tried component through it. Actually, on second thought I probably did because I was testing my OG Xbox 480p > 480i at one point, and this was when it only outputted YPbPr (before the VGA mod).

[SavagePencil]

No, the VSC900 is just a racksized "deluxe" edition of the 700.

While the VSCs suppoed RGsB input (so technically a component signal will work on them), they don't decode the YUV colorspace, so you end up with complete wrong colors.

How wrong are we talking? I haven’t sat down with a colorimeter or anything, but how obvious should it be?

[orange808]

Apologies in advance for the long reply.

AFAIK, the VSC 900 scan converters are the low end versions of the VSC 300--because the VSC 900 series can only output 480i. (The VSC 300 has more options, but they aren't particularly useful these days.) The 300/900 series are an older version of the Extron scan converters, so it won't look as good as the 500/700 series.

The VSC 500/700 series are the latest versions with the best 480i output. They use the same scaling engine. The VSC 300 looks nice enough, but I prefer the look of the 500 or 700.

Then again, good component to RGB isn't necessarily easy to get. I had a bad experience with the Garo and I wouldn't recommend it to anybody. So, you would need to find a good component to RGB transcoder to use an Extron VSC 500 or 700.

I haven't seen a VSC 900, but the specs worry me. It says it supports high definition component video--and that makes me think the VSC 900 will expect 720p. It might do 480p and it might not.

You might consider an inexpensive TVOne downconverter if you absolutely need component input. That's not the best quality, but it's pretty good--and it should be very cheap, very easy to find, and it should accept 480p over component.

TLDR:

For the best image quality, Fudoh is right. Get a nice transcoder and a VSC 500 or VSC 700.

The VSC 900 might work. I don't know.

The TVOne Corio 2 downscalers/scan converters will do what you want for cheap, but they don't look as good as the Extron VSC machines--and the Corio2 machines are hard to operate.

[SavagePencil]

The 900 supports 480p.

[orange808]

The 900 supports 480p.

Good to know.

Then, it comes down to comparing the 480i output between the VSC 900/300 and the Corio2.

I honestly don't know which is better.

The Extron is definitely going to be *much* easier to use.

On the other hand, many Corio2 machines will allow you to program "off spec" NTSC refresh rates to get better frame rate conversion results.

[Fudoh]

Right, I missed that the VSC 900 does indeed support component video signals. The units available are much more expensive than the VSC 700 ones though, so using a trancoder along with a 700 would probably still turn out way cheaper.

If you input YUV on the 700 using the RGsB input setting the color decoding is wrong beyond repair.

[Xer Xian]

There's an Extron USP 507 with the scan converter board installed currently for sale on ebay.com for less than $100.

I've never owned one, but it looks like it can do what you're after and is certainly a better buy than the VSC 900 (more inputs and functions, not as old).

[thetallguy24]

Right, I missed that the VSC 900 does indeed support component video signals. The units available are much more expensive than the VSC 700 ones though, so using a trancoder along with a 700 would probably still turn out way cheaper.

If you input YUV on the 700 using the RGsB input setting the color decoding is wrong beyond repair.

I just bought a 900 on Ebay last night for $50 shipped so that wasnt bad

[thetallguy24]

There's an Extron USP 507 with the scan converter board installed currently for sale on ebay.com for less than $100.

I've never owned one, but it looks like it can do what you're after and is certainly a better buy than the VSC 900 (more inputs and functions, not as old).

From what I can read, the 507 only outputs minimum 640x480. I don't see anywhere where it can downconvert 480i. The USP 405 has composite and s-video outputs so maybe it can? I don't see anywhere in the manual where it can output 480i but it would have to its seems with those 2 outputs

[SavagePencil]

Right, I missed that the VSC 900 does indeed support component video signals. The units available are much more expensive than the VSC 700 ones though, so using a trancoder along with a 700 would probably still turn out way cheaper.

If you input YUV on the 700 using the RGsB input setting the color decoding is wrong beyond repair.

I was able to get a 900 affordably and it’s been useful: component in, using the component loopback to go into the OSSC for LPF and upscale for capture. Downscaled RGBHV out to a 203 for “240p” on my PVM.

The 900 also allows geometry transform and positioning, with memory presets.

[thetallguy24]

Right, I missed that the VSC 900 does indeed support component video signals. The units available are much more expensive than the VSC 700 ones though, so using a trancoder along with a 700 would probably still turn out way cheaper.

If you input YUV on the 700 using the RGsB input setting the color decoding is wrong beyond repair.

I was able to get a 900 affordably and it’s been useful: component in, using the component loopback to go into the OSSC for LPF and upscale for capture. Downscaled RGBHV out to a 203 for “240p” on my PVM.

The 900 also allows geometry transform and positioning, with memory presets.

Any lag?

[orange808]

Right, I missed that the VSC 900 does indeed support component video signals. The units available are much more expensive than the VSC 700 ones though, so using a trancoder along with a 700 would probably still turn out way cheaper.

If you input YUV on the 700 using the RGsB input setting the color decoding is wrong beyond repair.

I was able to get a 900 affordably and it’s been useful: component in, using the component loopback to go into the OSSC for LPF and upscale for capture. Downscaled RGBHV out to a 203 for “240p” on my PVM.

The 900 also allows geometry transform and positioning, with memory presets.

Any lag?

Always. Nothing is free. Expect just over a frame of lag from these scan converters.

[thetallguy24]

Always. Nothing is free. Expect just over a frame of lag from these scan converters.

Always? That's a pretty hyperbolic statement. Several scan converters are lag free. The Xrgb2 comes to mind but it just does the opposite of what I'm trying to do. Hell I've played Duck Hunt on a VGA monitor with the Ossc

[orange808]

Always. Nothing is free. Expect just over a frame of lag from these scan converters.

Always? That's a pretty hyperbolic statement. Several scan converters are lag free. The Xrgb2 comes to mind but it just does the opposite of what I'm trying to do. Hell I've played Duck Hunt on a VGA monitor with the Ossc

Turtles: I like 'em.

[thetallguy24]

So I hooked up my RGB modded NES to my OSSC though SCART, line doubled it (480p), ran that to the VSC 900, and then finally to my PVM 3230.

As you can see in the video, Duck Hunt will work with the light gun. Now it doesn't work well (possibly from the flicker and color issues?). You have to hold up the Zapper right to the screen, but it does recognize hits.

I'm guessing this means the VSC 900 is lag free?

I will post more once I go to my storage and get a CRT w/component and my HD Retrovision cable

https://youtu.be/kOrDo373Blg

[Dochartaigh]

You have to hold up the Zapper right to the screen, but it does recognize hits.

You can hold the zapper right up to a light bulb (i.e. a bright light source) and it'll register hits too! lol

And good god man, resize your image to 800x600!

[nmalinoski]

And good god man, resize your image to 800x600!

I think spoiler tags are more appropriate.

[orange808]

The VSC 900 is not lag free. Just so future readers don't get misinformation. It's about a frame of latency.

Also, I mentioned "these scan converters" in this thread as a specific reference to the Extron VSC scan converters.

Also, most products labeled "scan converter" output 480i only.

[thetallguy24]

You have to hold up the Zapper right to the screen, but it does recognize hits.

You can hold the zapper right up to a light bulb (i.e. a bright light source) and it'll register hits too! lol

That's absolutely not true. I've tried it and that never works. Others have tried it on youtube and it doesnt work

[thetallguy24]

The VSC 900 is not lag free. Just so future readers don't get misinformation. It's about a frame of latency.

Also, I mentioned "these scan converters" in this thread as a specific reference to the Extron VSC scan converters.

Also, most products labeled "scan converter" output 480i only.

Light gun games on the nes require lag free because the screen flashes black only one frame. Also, no one is claiming the scan converter is outputting anything other than 480i. I said the ossc was outputting 480p to the VSC which down converts it (480i) so it works on my PVM

[fernan1234]

How do you like the look of these games at 480i on your PVM? Sometimes I feel like some 240p games could benefit from being upscaled to 480i on the right pro CRT monitor.

[orange808]

The VSC 900 is not lag free. Just so future readers don't get misinformation. It's about a frame of latency.

Also, I mentioned "these scan converters" in this thread as a specific reference to the Extron VSC scan converters.

Also, most products labeled "scan converter" output 480i only.

Light gun games on the nes require lag free because the screen flashes black only one frame. Also, no one is claiming the scan converter is outputting anything other than 480i. I said the ossc was outputting 480p to the VSC which down converts it (480i) so it works on my PVM

Riddle me this, professor:

How does the light gun know what frame it's looking at?

Shit, I can get the light gun to register using a Corio2. Is that lag free, too?

Once again, let's make sure that no misinformation gets passed on from this. It's about a frame of lag.

[orange808]

The VSC 900 and VSC 300 use the same scaling engine. Here's a photo of VSC 300 handling 480p from the Time Sleuth tester. 480p > VSC 300 > 480i > CRT TV

It's about a frame of lag--just like I told you in the first place.

Spoiler

The octopus was very scary.

[thetallguy24]

The VSC 900 and VSC 300 use the same scaling engine. Here's a photo of VSC 300 handling 480p from the Time Sleuth tester. 480p > VSC 300 > 480i > CRT TV

It's about a frame of lag--just like I told you in the first place.

Spoiler

The octopus was very scary.

How are you getting this info? Have you done the bodnar test with it, 240p test suite, etc?

Even fudoh himself says they're lag free units

The Extron VSC units are lagfree as long as you don't perform any framerate conversions (VGA in, PAL out). With conversion there's a field of lag (0.5 frames).