God Tier Streaming Rig?

[cicada88]

This is more of a thought experiment and discussion starter than what I'm actually trying to build (although I would love to eventually!).

If money isn't an option, what would specs of a dedicated streaming rig be. Target devices would be actual OG hardware computers and consoles as well as potentially 4K 144Hz PC gaming (from a separate computer).

Definitely need Composite, S-Video, and RGB Support.

For scaling and capture is it just as simple as a Framemeister + Elgato 4K60 Pro?

Just for kicks, assume a 2Gb+ Internet connection and target platforms of Youtube & Twitch.

Discussion of streaming from Arcade hardware/CRTEmu Boxes welcome as well.

[thebigcheese]

I'm not maybe the best at this, so some of my advice is probably not worth much, but... if money is no object:
-While it's tempting to get the most expensive CPU out there, it's not actually that useful. There's a maximum number of threads that are actually useful before you start getting degraded performance, so you honestly don't need anything more than 8 cores (if even that). EposVox on YouTube explains the reasons why more thoroughly than I can, I'm sure.
-RAM isn't that essential, so I wouldn't bother spending much money there assuming it's for streaming only (and not for gaming).
-Same for GPU. OBS will use GPU for preview, but that's about it. Don't waste money on anything nice here.
-Finally, keep in mind that you're still dealing with the realities of streaming, which is that you're really not going to be streaming at higher than 720p60 at 3500 kbps unless you're a partner (or otherwise have access to transcodes). Assuming you want to access a broad audience, anyway, and not lose anyone watching out in the boonies or from their phones. So all the CPU power in the world isn't going to make that any better. And once you start getting at higher bitrates, the CPU preset doesn't matter as much, which also means that CPU power doesn't matter as much. The point being that a "god tier streaming rig," in terms of the bones of the computer, can really be a pretty cheap machine.

For scaling and capture, if you're going for "god tier" you are not going to want a Framemeister, an Elgato, or an Avermedia. OSSC is going to get you the closest to reference quality, but you might want to go for a capture card that captures analog inputs instead. Retro RGB has some good write-ups on that. The goal here would be to get the highest possible quality and most consumer streamer-focused devices are just not going to get you there IF you are using original hardware. If you're just going to use a Mister to emulate, then your capture card doesn't matter as much. Having said that, on the low end of things I would absolutely go for a Live Gamer 4K over the 4K60 Pro due to proper HDR support (including remapping to SDR), 4:4:4 support, and other things (like downmixing surround to stereo).

[cicada88]

Some really quality info there bigcheese--thank you!

I didn't know about the streaming being capped, I naively assumed you could do 4K/60Hz assuming you had the bandwidth and it would be automatically downgraded for viewers with lower bandwidth. But it makes sense on a live stream compared to a preshot sequence that could be uploaded in multiple quality levels.

I guess the solution would be to stream at one level and capture the stream at a higher quality for uploading after. I'm not sure if streaming centric services like Twitch allows this, but it would be possible on YouTube.

[Austin]

Having a decent GPU definitely does not hurt. OBS uses it to generate its scenes. The more scenes and items in a scene you have (plug-ins, effects filters, window captures, browser embeds, etc.), the more of your GPU it uses. You don't need something top-end, but it's probably good to at least spring for a solid mid-range card (GTX 1660, RX590, etc). A decent GPU can also assist with the encoding of the stream if you do not wish to have everything be handled in software.

If stability is important, it's better to have a system that is more capable than needed as opposed to having one that is "just enough". You don't want to be running into encoding issues and dropped frames a year down the road, wishing you had bought something more powerful to start. Knowing that 4K is considerably more demanding than 1080p in general, I personally wouldn't be comfortable with anything less than one of the more recent 8 core/16 thread processors (Intel i9, AMD Ryzen 7).

Regarding actual stream quality settings, I do not recommend streaming above 720p on Twitch until you become an Affiliate (Twitch has two "partner" tiers, Affiliate, then Partner). Affiliate status is easy to obtain, but until that happens no one will be able to access quality settings on the stream. Connections are still poor for a lot of viewers and you will alienate a lot of them.

I'm not even sure streaming at 4K is worth it at the moment. Considering data caps and with how much harder it is on bandwidth, I can't imagine a lot of people are watching at that resolution. It wouldn't hurt to record the archive locally at that and then post it to YouTube, but it's probably not worth actually streaming at it.

Flexibility may also be an important factor in a "God Tier" rig. I personally have a XRGB Mini and OSSC, as well as an Elgato HD60 Pro and a DataPath E1S. The Framemeister has been my go-to overall due to its flexibility, ease of use, zoom functionality, variety of inputs and compatibility with consumer capture cards. I switch to the OSSC for things that require the lowest input lag as possible, to capture platforms that do 480p, or when I want to capture an arcade setup. The Elgato doesn't like some of the OSSC's scale settings and the card can lock up until I restart the computer (frustrating, not something that's good to have happen mid-stream). The E1S is used mainly for oddball resolutions and refresh rates, primarily classic PC gaming, but I could eventually see myself moving to using it for the majority of my retro stuff, I just have to figure out a splitter setup for multiple input types.

If money is not a concern, then I do suggest looking into a professional card of some kind (something like a Data Path card, for instance). You will need to do some research on it but what I can say is the DP cards are far more responsive than the various Elgato and AverMedia cards I have used. Resolution switches are much faster, the software is much more powerful, and the thing is rock solid--I have never had the card lock up at all and the second I load up its software it's immediately capturing. It's fast, responsive and it just works.

[cicada88]

Thanks for that detailed post Austin. A lot of good information there.

It really is interesting to see that 720p is the mass appeal target resolution for streaming. It absolutely makes sense.

My body is just completely ready for the future with multi Gb fiber internet, 8K 144Hz, and dual eye 4K VR.

[Austin]

For retro stuff you would be surprised how decent 720p still looks for streaming. Personally I do 1080p60 and let people go less via the quality settings. I wouldn't mind trying 4K to see if my system can even handle it, but I don't have any 4K displays here yet so it would be difficult to test and see what the final end product actually looks like.

I was thinking about it today as well and I'm not even entirely sure if OBS can record at one resolution and stream with another. I'll have to have a poke through the settings and look deeper into some guides.

From the OBS site regarding video output settings:

"Base (Canvas) Resolution:
- This is the amount of space you have to fit your sources. You usually want this to match your monitor display resolution, or if you are playing games, the game resolution. Default is your primary monitor.

- Output (Scaled) Resolution:
- Should be the Stream Output Resolution (720p,480p,etc). This is the resolution that the stream/recording will output at, using the selected downscale filter. If you have 1080p sources, but want to stream at 720p, this is where you would set that."

Based on that it seems the local recording and stream resolution are tied to the same setting and may not be able to be set separately. I'll have to look into it further.

Worst case, if Twitch is your focus then you could begin at lower resolutions to start and bump it up when you make Affiliate (assuming you're not already there). If YouTube is a focus, then you can go about as high as you want right from the start.

[thebigcheese]

You can do different resolutions (I think), but you have to do it in the output/encoder settings, not in the video output settings you are looking at.