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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:25 am 


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Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Posts: 2363
Location: Montréal, Canada
Try:

- Disable Auto Power Saving (Picture -> Picture Mode Settings)
- Disable AI Picture (Picture -> Picture Mode Settings)
- Disable Dynamic Contrast (Picture -> Picture Mode Settings -> Advanced Controls/Expert Controls)
- Disable Dynamic Tone Mapping (Picture -> Picture Mode Settings -> Advanced Controls/Expert Controls)
- Disable Dynamic Color (Picture -> Picture Mode Settings -> Advanced Controls/Expert Controls)
- Disable LED Local Dimming (Picture -> Picture Mode Settings -> Picture Options)
- Disable AI Brightness (Picture -> Picture Mode Settings -> Picture Options)
- Disable Energy Saving (Picture -> Energy Saving)
- Disable Logo Luminance Adjustment (Picture -> Additional Settings -> OLED Panel Settings)

Some of those features may not appear on your TV, LG uses a generic manual that lists all settings for all TVs. For example, I'm pretty sure there's no "LED Local Dimming" setting on the OLED models.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:34 am 



Joined: 13 Jul 2014
Posts: 172
Guspaz wrote:
Try:

- Disable Auto Power Saving (Picture -> Picture Mode Settings)
- Disable AI Picture (Picture -> Picture Mode Settings)
- Disable Dynamic Contrast (Picture -> Picture Mode Settings -> Advanced Controls/Expert Controls)
- Disable Dynamic Tone Mapping (Picture -> Picture Mode Settings -> Advanced Controls/Expert Controls)
- Disable Dynamic Color (Picture -> Picture Mode Settings -> Advanced Controls/Expert Controls)
- Disable LED Local Dimming (Picture -> Picture Mode Settings -> Picture Options)
- Disable AI Brightness (Picture -> Picture Mode Settings -> Picture Options)
- Disable Energy Saving (Picture -> Energy Saving)
- Disable Logo Luminance Adjustment (Picture -> Additional Settings -> OLED Panel Settings)

Some of those features may not appear on your TV, LG uses a generic manual that lists all settings for all TVs. For example, I'm pretty sure there's no "LED Local Dimming" setting on the OLED models.


These are all excellent suggestions, and thanks for taking the time to reply. However, they still not fix the issue.

It's weird. After a five or so minutes of gameplay, the screen dims, and I'll have to tab out to another window for the luminance to return. The screen seems to dim only with dark content or with images that appear to be stationery. But why should that be case? Why would the screen make dark content even more difficult to see by dimming the picture???


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:35 am 


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Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Posts: 2363
Location: Montréal, Canada
I remember that, back when I was in university, we replaced our CRT television with a Sony LCD TV (this was maybe 15 years ago), and it had some sort of similar auto-dim power saving feature. It annoyingly triggered whenever we tried to play retro games with predominantly black backgrounds (like, stuff from the 8-bit era). If the screen was dark enough, it would cut the backlight brightness by a ton and make it almost unplayable.

EDIT: Try playing around with the "Peak Brightness" setting, as this indirectly controls the automatic brightness limiter, which is meant to cut the overall brightness of the image if there is too much high-brightness content on screen. RTINGS suggests that on the C9 you can essentially disable the ABL by setting the contrast to 80 and the peak brightness to off (setting peak brightness to off does not by itself disable the ABL), at the expense of the maximum brightness being reduced to around 250 nit across all scenes. But if the ABL is the cause of your problems, then that combination of settings might help. This is for SDR mode, mind, not HDR.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:41 pm 



Joined: 13 Jul 2014
Posts: 172
Guspaz wrote:
I remember that, back when I was in university, we replaced our CRT television with a Sony LCD TV (this was maybe 15 years ago), and it had some sort of similar auto-dim power saving feature. It annoyingly triggered whenever we tried to play retro games with predominantly black backgrounds (like, stuff from the 8-bit era). If the screen was dark enough, it would cut the backlight brightness by a ton and make it almost unplayable.

EDIT: Try playing around with the "Peak Brightness" setting, as this indirectly controls the automatic brightness limiter, which is meant to cut the overall brightness of the image if there is too much high-brightness content on screen. RTINGS suggests that on the C9 you can essentially disable the ABL by setting the contrast to 80 and the peak brightness to off (setting peak brightness to off does not by itself disable the ABL), at the expense of the maximum brightness being reduced to around 250 nit across all scenes. But if the ABL is the cause of your problems, then that combination of settings might help. This is for SDR mode, mind, not HDR.


I will try this and report back. However, as far as I understand, ABL is supposed to compensate for bright image content, reducing the luminance of the screen when bright images show up. However, the problem for me is almost the opposite. For me, the problem is when the image is too dark - the picture becomes dim.

Anyway, I'll report back.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:50 am 



Joined: 13 Jul 2014
Posts: 172
I set the content to SDR, lowered the contrast to 80, and set Peak Brightness to Off. The problem persists. I don't think this has anything to do with the ABL.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:52 am 



Joined: 13 Jul 2014
Posts: 172
RIP-Felix wrote:
I use mine for everything, retro gaming, TV, movies, streaming, HTPC all hooked up.

My main complaint about this TV is it's burn in reduction features that can't be turned off. I knew this was an issue with OLED, but I didn't know that it would be so annoying. I don't have issue playing games or watching TV, basically any content that varies what's on screen frequently. But as a PC monitor, It will slowly brighten/darken over time on static screens with lots of contrasting or bright areas, like white backgrounds in word documents and webpages. Other times it'll suddenly brighten, about blinding me, This tends to happen when something changes, like a bright object appears after awhile with darker images on screen. It just happened as I'm typing this, the panel had darkened slowly, then when I right clicked to spell check a work the bright white popup box caused the entire panel to brighten. Annoying, but something I'm willing to live with given the other advantages. It has fewer disadvantages than the VIZIO it replaced.


This is my problem, more or less. Any idea on why this is happening?


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 5:12 pm 



Joined: 20 Oct 2016
Posts: 37
BuckoA51 wrote:
Quote:
Do you have an OSSC with the latency tester? I'm wondering if the C9 input lag increases with off-spec refresh rates/resolutions like the C7 does: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=63745


I don't, I should really sort that out.


The soldering is a definite pain - that surface mounted resistor is so tiny. I suggest using something else: It's a raspberry pi (zero). In the US just $5. The idea is to use the Pi to push fames out over HDMI (or composite) and turn on a LED that's built in to the Pi at the same time. Using a camera you can measure the delay between the LED lighting up and the screen responding. The higher speed the camera the better, but 60hz can actually do the job for measuring a 60hz display. And most flagship phones have had higher speed cameras than that for a while - way back on the S7 samsung was offering 240hz, for instance. Meanwhile no soldering or other hardware work is required. This is a pure software solution using the stock raspberry pi zero board that is sold by multiple retailers.

I've validated it against the OSSC's lag testing mod and also against an oscilloscope and the numbers work out to be within 2ms of each other. So if you want to measure the lag of your setup this is a cheap way to do it. Even better, the pi can be powered by a regular microUSB power bank. So you can test any display you can plug HDMI into and record for 1-2 minutes with your camera. I actually think the results are a bit more reliable than the OSSC mod since that uses binary threshold, whereas this is more adaptive to the actual brightness of the measured display. I haven't tested the leo bodnar device or the time sluth, but again I actually think this could be better, if involving a bit more DIY. certainly it's cheaper than any other solution.

you can download the software and read how to use it here:

https://alantechreview.blogspot.com/202 ... berry.html

any questions don't hesitate to contact me. Esp. if it's about lack of clarity in the above link. Also, I'm hoping to start Yet Another Database of Input Lag (tm) to keep track of the results people gather. In particular, this method can measure lag for 480i and 480p, whereas most DBs/review sites just report 1080p.


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