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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:06 pm 



Joined: 13 Jul 2014
Posts: 172
Gara wrote:
How are you enjoying your c9, Windfish? I admire the go-getter attitude. You asked for a recommendation and you were rock n rolling. You were presented with high end expensive models and besides a little floundering on the lower b8/c8 you decided to go for it on the c9. A big decision at the drop of a hat. I dig it.

Mine finally arrived and I am having a ton of fun with it. I spent the last 2 days trying to get earc to work with my denon 3500h. Without proper support plex attempts to transcode dts-hd and it just keep giving a jumble of colors on the screen as I can only guess the transcoding is causing lag. I can't figure out why they don't pair.

I'm still playing with settings. Motion handling looks so much different than plasma. It's a hard adjustment coming off 10 years of experiencing motion on plasma. I'm not sure if it's just something I'll have to get used to. I've been trying the trumotion settings but anything above 0 looks like crap. Hoping I find a compromise.

I'm going to try out pc mode later on and see how that works. I have splitters setup already to feed my various video processors so I was thinking of giving pc mode it's own hdmi input if auto switching can't be done.

It's an amazing TV. I'll have to do some more gaming to give my thoughts on that but initial thoughts are that it's the best gaming experience I've ever had on a modern TV. 65" may be a bit big for these kinds of games. That might just be my perspective because I've been going strong on my 20" Pvm this last year.

Any other useful tips or tricks any of may you know for setting up the display?


Hey, Gara! I am sorry that I missed this post. I am loving my C9. For a few months, the only gaming system that I have been using on it is on the Nintendo Switch. A big game for me is Smash Ultimate, so that's why I needed a set with low latency. (Incidentally, I don't seem to need to do the "PC icon trick" to get the best latency reduction - Gaming Mode seems to work just fine. But if anyone knows different, please let me know.)

Konsolkongen's settings are what I ran with, and they seem to be working great. Recently, however, I am connecting other systems to it, the OSSC, and so on. And these settings, not sure if they are the best for content with scanlines. Scanlines darken the screen, maybe too much darkness. So I am looking into tweaking these settings. I'll probably have more to say once I get more time this weekend.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:11 pm 



Joined: 13 Jul 2014
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Konsolkongen, incidentally, is it still the case that the "PC icon trick" is still needed for RGB 4:4:4? Do you know? If so, that's a bummer because it seems like you do need to have the Picture Mode set to Gaming to get the low latency. So the two options are mutually exclusive.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:58 pm 


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Sorry I don't know about the C9s as I don't have hands on experience. I was under the impression that PC mode still had the same lag as game mode, I seem to recall reading that. It's very possible that RGB444 is only available in PC mode still.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:52 pm 


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https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c9 ... rison_2485

"Chroma 4:4:4 can be displayed properly with any resolution, as long as PC mode is enabled."

4k @ 60 Hz : 13.4 ms
4k @ 60 Hz @ 4:4:4 : 13.3 ms

Of note is that 4K 120Hz input is only supported from HDMI 2.1 sources, and while the XBox One X has native HDMI 2.1 support, there are not currently any PC GPUs on the market that support HDMI 2.1. As such, PCs are limited to 1440p as the highest 120Hz resolution, though 4K is still supported at 60Hz.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:30 pm 



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So PC Mode is, in fact, ever so slightly FASTER than Game Mode? :o


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:14 pm 


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One thing worth mentioning regarding PC mode that I don't think I noticed until recently. Using Full Range RGB in PC mode will introduce more color banding than Limited Range. I would have thought it was the other way around. So if possible choose limited range :)

At least this is how it is on my C8.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:05 pm 


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So, I have decided to rectify my mistake to buy a VIZIO. I am tired of it randomly dropping in/out of sync. I'm tired of it's insolent aspect ratio behavior (locks me out). I'm tired of not having 960p and 1440p resolution support. I tired of weird behavior with the OSSC and various HDMI devices I've collected for use with retro gaming consoles. I'm ready for an upgrade.

In a bit, I'm going down to Best Buy to get an LG B9 or C9. From what I've read there is no significant difference, besides the faster processor in the C9 (which doesn't affect anything tangible like HDMI latency). The only redeeming quality of the VIZIO is it's 10.5ms HDMI 5 port. However, that's for 120Hz as a PC monitor and for games it's actually 15ms for 60Hz. The LG 9 series has that beat at 13ms, so I really only loose 3ms for PC gaming and gain much more (1440p 120Hz vs 1080p 120Hz).

Is there any advantage of the C9 over the B9, besides the processor boosting the performance of apps? I have a ROKU ultra for that and will not use the TV's onboard smart features. Settings are what I care about, so if there is anything locked out/unavailable on the B9 that isn't on the C9 that what I'd like to know.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:25 pm 


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Ooo! This thread is going again.

With LG not confirming if the B9 will receive g-sync compatability support like the c9/E9 later this year, I'd recommend sticking to the c9. I'm guessing they will blame it on the slower processor if they fail to deliver.

You're probably aware, but if you run your setup through a sound receiver then you will likely have to run direct to the TV and use arc/earc. I'm not aware of any receiver that supports that resolution combo.

The apps on the lg are quite nice. The magic remote makes browsing easy and fast. The shield is still has the best version of plex outside a htpc. Even the LGs version of the app lacks support for best audio codes. How the shield remains the only device that supports the codecs is confounding.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:44 pm 


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If you have the willpower, you might wait.

LG has the panel, but they don't have the video processing for a true "all in one" display that does games, tele, and movies.

I am waiting to see what Sony does next year.
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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:36 am 


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RIP-Felix wrote:
So, I have decided to rectify my mistake to buy a VIZIO. I am tired of it randomly dropping in/out of sync. I'm tired of it's insolent aspect ratio behavior (locks me out). I'm tired of not having 960p and 1440p resolution support. I tired of weird behavior with the OSSC and various HDMI devices I've collected for use with retro gaming consoles. I'm ready for an upgrade.

In a bit, I'm going down to Best Buy to get an LG B9 or C9. From what I've read there is no significant difference, besides the faster processor in the C9 (which doesn't affect anything tangible like HDMI latency). The only redeeming quality of the VIZIO is it's 10.5ms HDMI 5 port. However, that's for 120Hz as a PC monitor and for games it's actually 15ms for 60Hz. The LG 9 series has that beat at 13ms, so I really only loose 3ms for PC gaming and gain much more (1440p 120Hz vs 1080p 120Hz).

Is there any advantage of the C9 over the B9, besides the processor boosting the performance of apps? I have a ROKU ultra for that and will not use the TV's onboard smart features. Settings are what I care about, so if there is anything locked out/unavailable on the B9 that isn't on the C9 that what I'd like to know.


HDMI 2.1 GPUs will be out likely the first half of next year. I'll be getting a C9 (when they hit a low enough price) for full 4K 120Hz support. If you don't play PC games, you might as well get a cheap *B8* if you can.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:10 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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Gara wrote:
With LG not confirming if the B9 will receive g-sync compatability support like the c9/E9 later this year, I'd recommend sticking to the c9. I'm guessing they will blame it on the slower processor if they fail to deliver.

Is Gsync the only sticking point? I don't buy nVidia gear, so lack of Gsync doesn't make a difference to me; for those like me, the B9 would be the more economical purchase, yeah? Or is there something else?


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:08 am 


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nmalinoski wrote:
Gara wrote:
With LG not confirming if the B9 will receive g-sync compatability support like the c9/E9 later this year, I'd recommend sticking to the c9. I'm guessing they will blame it on the slower processor if they fail to deliver.

Is Gsync the only sticking point? I don't buy nVidia gear, so lack of Gsync doesn't make a difference to me; for those like me, the B9 would be the more economical purchase, yeah? Or is there something else?


Pretty sure the B9 does not have HDMI 2.1


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:34 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
Gara wrote:
With LG not confirming if the B9 will receive g-sync compatability support like the c9/E9 later this year, I'd recommend sticking to the c9. I'm guessing they will blame it on the slower processor if they fail to deliver.

Is Gsync the only sticking point? I don't buy nVidia gear, so lack of Gsync doesn't make a difference to me; for those like me, the B9 would be the more economical purchase, yeah? Or is there something else?


From what I've read the slower processor on the b9 could mean slightly lower picture quality. I'm not sure how much that translates to real world differences. Is the b9 significantly cheaper in your region? We don't really know how hdmi 2.1 support will turn out so you may not want to rule out Nvidia cards for your future. I think you would be happy with either model tv. If I was in your position I'd want the c9, but it's hard to say how much I'd pay to secure it.

Theoretically you'd think the faster processor might mean the c9 will get more updates or even ported features from next year's model, but lg doesn't seem to do stuff like that. They move on to the next product line pretty fast and rarely look back.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:56 pm 


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G-sync support on the C9? Great but, what, is it going to grow a display port connector or something? :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:44 pm 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
G-sync support on the C9? Great but, what, is it going to grow a display port connector or something? :mrgreen:


Just in case you don't know (sarcasm is always hard to read online), it's GSync over HDMI. Presumably HDMI 2.1 will be available on next year's GPUs for 4K @ 120Hz 4:4:4


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:21 pm 


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It'll support the current HDMI 2.0 cards, though they're not going to get 4K120 at 4:4:4.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:31 am 


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According to Rtings the 9 series all support HDMI2.1. The faster processor in the C9 may be better able to handle 2.1, but since there are no devices to test with yet that's all hearsay.

I decided the minimal advantages of the C9 were not worth the price hike for my budget. That and Best Buy had the B9 on the floor, making it convenient for me to walk in, pay, and leave without having to "endure" a sales rep.

I'm very impressed and well pleased! Now if someone could please point me to good settings that would be very helpful. I don't have test equipment, so more general tips are warranted (obviously I'm not mucking around in the service menu, potentially damaging my investment).


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:42 am 


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RIP-Felix wrote:
According to Rtings the 9 series all support HDMI2.1. The faster processor in the C9 may be better able to handle 2.1, but since there are no devices to test with yet that's all hearsay.

I decided the minimal advantages of the C9 were not worth the price hike for my budget. That and Best Buy had the B9 on the floor, making it convenient for me to walk in, pay, and leave without having to "endure" a sales rep.

I'm very impressed and well pleased! Now if someone could please point me to good settings that would be very helpful. I don't have test equipment, so more general tips are warranted (obviously I'm not mucking around in the service menu, potentially damaging my investment).


Huh, did not know the B9 was practically identical to the C9 this year. I will say though that I've seen sales on Slickdeals that regularly put the C9 cheaper than the B9 (cheapest so far was $1150), while the B9 seems to rarely go on sale.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:21 am 



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I am sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I need more help! I may create a new thread if this post is buried.

I have moved to a new place - a small studio apartment - and to consolidate space, I will be using my LG C9 as a computer monitor. I will be using it for professional coding, gaming, and multimedia. Won't these different use cases require different settings - perhaps one setting for gaming (Game Mode, etc.) and another for multimedia (Cinema Mode, etc.). Or am I complicating things?

Also, to leverage the most out of the C9, I want to use G Sync. According to the research I have done, I have 2 options: 2160p @ 60hz or 1440p @ 120hz. Do I have that right?


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:00 pm 


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Windfish wrote:
I am sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I need more help! I may create a new thread if this post is buried.

I have moved to a new place - a small studio apartment - and to consolidate space, I will be using my LG C9 as a computer monitor. I will be using it for professional coding, gaming, and multimedia. Won't these different use cases require different settings - perhaps one setting for gaming (Game Mode, etc.) and another for multimedia (Cinema Mode, etc.). Or am I complicating things?

Also, to leverage the most out of the C9, I want to use G Sync. According to the research I have done, I have 2 options: 2160p @ 60hz or 1440p @ 120hz. Do I have that right?


The c9 is pretty good about remembering settings. 1440p 120hz, 2160p 24hz, 2160p 60hz should all be treated separately and remember the settings automatically. Mine idles in 1440p 120hz game mode. Mpc and madvr handle resolution changes for videos. As soon as the TV detects the resolution change into 2160p 24hz, it switches over to either the sdr profile or hdr dark room profile.

You have it right. 2160p 60 Hz or 1440p 120hz, you should be able to do 1080p 120hz as well. If you want 120hz then you'll need a direct connection into the TV. You can use earc to send the audio back to a receiver. Earc sucks, but there are no hdmi 2.1 receivers.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:17 pm 


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What's wrong with eARC? Haven't tried it myself but I expect to make use of it with the next generation of consoles and a TV with HDMI2.1.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:28 pm 


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Not sure what's inherently wrong with it, I've passed Dolby Atmos from my B9's Disney+ app and it worked without a hitch, but the 9 series currently doesn't pass LPCM via earc, which is a bug that will be fixed... Whenever they get to it I guess (one rep said Q2 this year, but that was months ago- why would it take that long to fix the infoflag they're sending???).

For PC to get GSync and surround sound, you very annoyingly have to use 2 HDMI cables- one to your receiver for audio, another to your TV for GSync video.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:55 pm 


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That's unfortunate. I hope LG will fix it in the 9 series as promised.

I remember having a lot of trouble with regular ARC when it first came out too :/


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:52 pm 



Joined: 13 Jul 2014
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Gara wrote:
The c9 is pretty good about remembering settings. 1440p 120hz, 2160p 24hz, 2160p 60hz should all be treated separately and remember the settings automatically. Mine idles in 1440p 120hz game mode. Mpc and madvr handle resolution changes for videos. As soon as the TV detects the resolution change into 2160p 24hz, it switches over to either the sdr profile or hdr dark room profile.

You have it right. 2160p 60 Hz or 1440p 120hz, you should be able to do 1080p 120hz as well. If you want 120hz then you'll need a direct connection into the TV. You can use earc to send the audio back to a receiver. Earc sucks, but there are no hdmi 2.1 receivers.


Interesting, but this gives rise to another question. Do you have to manually change these resolutions and refresh rates on your computer all the time? Suppose you are gaming at 1440p @ 120hz and then want to watch a movie. Presumably, you'd want a higher resolution and lower refresh rate, so will you go into the control panel to make these changes? Or is the some way of having them be automatic?


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:58 pm 



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Windfish wrote:
Gara wrote:
The c9 is pretty good about remembering settings. 1440p 120hz, 2160p 24hz, 2160p 60hz should all be treated separately and remember the settings automatically. Mine idles in 1440p 120hz game mode. Mpc and madvr handle resolution changes for videos. As soon as the TV detects the resolution change into 2160p 24hz, it switches over to either the sdr profile or hdr dark room profile.

You have it right. 2160p 60 Hz or 1440p 120hz, you should be able to do 1080p 120hz as well. If you want 120hz then you'll need a direct connection into the TV. You can use earc to send the audio back to a receiver. Earc sucks, but there are no hdmi 2.1 receivers.


Interesting, but this gives rise to another question. Do you have to manually change these resolutions and refresh rates on your computer all the time? Suppose you are gaming at 1440p @ 120hz and then want to watch a movie. Presumably, you'd want a higher resolution and lower refresh rate, so will you go into the control panel to make these changes? Or is the some way of having them be automatic?

Usually it's the software that changes the video mode for you. Set your game to 1440p@120Hz, and that should trigger the OS to change the output video mode. Exit the game to your desktop, and that should change to whatever video mode you set for your desktop. Video, I'm a little less knowledgeable with; I would expect a video player in full-screen mode to switch to a refresh rate that matches the video's framerate, if or a multiple is available, but I haven't ever seen that in practice; usually VLC or Windows ends up doing framerate conversion to adjust it to whatever framerate my desktop is using.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:09 pm 


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Quote:
Interesting, but this gives rise to another question. Do you have to manually change these resolutions and refresh rates on your computer all the time? Suppose you are gaming at 1440p @ 120hz and then want to watch a movie. Presumably, you'd want a higher resolution and lower refresh rate, so will you go into the control panel to make these changes? Or is the some way of having them be automatic?


It's all automatic once you setup madvr and your media player of choice. You set the resolutions you want to support and madvr will automatically change from my normal 1440p 120hz desktop to whatever is best for the movie when you open it, usually 2160p 24hz. As soon as the media player closes it switches back to my normal desktop. All while the TV detects the changes the profiles. The lgs auto detection and profile switching is quite good.


Quote:
What's wrong with eARC? Haven't tried it myself but I expect to make use of it with the next generation of consoles and a TV with HDMI2.1.



It works for the most part. I have to mess with it more than I'd like. It can add an audio delay on some sources. Especially the tvs own apps. It's a lot of little things that annoy me. Sometimes audio will drop for a few seconds if lots of fast forwarding and rewinding. I've had it mess up and act like regular arc and refuse to passthru higher codecs until I switch earc off and on. Other times it'll switch back to internal speakers and require I manually change it back. Lots of little annoyances like that.

Your experience may be different. Some setups it works great. With mine I remain eager to go back to a set and forget setup once hdmi 2.1 receivers are out.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:31 am 


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I use mine for everything, retro gaming, TV, movies, streaming, HTPC all hooked up.

My main complaint about this TV is it's burn in reduction features that can't be turned off. I knew this was an issue with OLED, but I didn't know that it would be so annoying. I don't have issue playing games or watching TV, basically any content that varies what's on screen frequently. But as a PC monitor, It will slowly brighten/darken over time on static screens with lots of contrasting or bright areas, like white backgrounds in word documents and webpages. Other times it'll suddenly brighten, about blinding me, This tends to happen when something changes, like a bright object appears after awhile with darker images on screen. It just happened as I'm typing this, the panel had darkened slowly, then when I right clicked to spell check a work the bright white popup box caused the entire panel to brighten. Annoying, but something I'm willing to live with given the other advantages. It has fewer disadvantages than the VIZIO it replaced.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:53 am 



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RIP-Felix wrote:
I use mine for everything, retro gaming, TV, movies, streaming, HTPC all hooked up.

My main complaint about this TV is it's burn in reduction features that can't be turned off. I knew this was an issue with OLED, but I didn't know that it would be so annoying. I don't have issue playing games or watching TV, basically any content that varies what's on screen frequently. But as a PC monitor, It will slowly brighten/darken over time on static screens with lots of contrasting or bright areas, like white backgrounds in word documents and webpages. Other times it'll suddenly brighten, about blinding me, This tends to happen when something changes, like a bright object appears after awhile with darker images on screen. It just happened as I'm typing this, the panel had darkened slowly, then when I right clicked to spell check a work the bright white popup box caused the entire panel to brighten. Annoying, but something I'm willing to live with given the other advantages. It has fewer disadvantages than the VIZIO it replaced.


So I have bumped this thread to highlight that the screen also tends to dim when there are really dark images that do not seem to change. Right now, I am playing Vagante (a Steam Dungeon Crawler on Steam), and the screen gets much too dark very quickly.

So you're saying there's no way to address , huh?


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:36 pm 


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Disable static logo dimming (or whatever it's called) and see what happens.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:40 pm 



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bobrocks95 wrote:
Disable static logo dimming (or whatever it's called) and see what happens.


Thanks for the suggestion, but this does not work. I will keep trying to fix it, but I am afraid there won't be one.


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