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 Post subject: Marseille mClassic
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 2:35 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 472
Marseille has released their updated version of the mCable called mClassic for purchase.

Website: https://www.marseilleinc.com/mclassic/
Tech Specs: https://www.marseilleinc.com/mclassic-tech-specs/

Purchase: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mcla ... 22177800#/

Here are some reviews:

Text:
https://techreport.com/review/3463592/m ... o-content/

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd9IGzfnBaI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAehj2GX__0


Last edited by Seraphic on Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:05 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 2:32 am 


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4:2:0 4k output.

I seriously doubt it really has a full 4:4:4 path for any signals. We hear 4:4:4 all the time and few devices ever deliver.

960p to 1080p support would have been best for our use case.

I guess we'll wait and see what it does. :)
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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:56 am 



Joined: 11 Dec 2014
Posts: 345
If the Mcable is to go by. It will probably be crap.


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:34 pm 


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I agree. It looks terrible.

Probably excellent if the sharpness option on your TV doesn't add enough ringing on it's own, and that's your thing :)


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:49 pm 


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I never bothered with an mcable, but I don't recall seeing any excessive ringing in the pics.
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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:36 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 472
Sent them an e-mail and here is low down on the mClassic:

Uses same VTV-1224 processor but has (rev 2.0) of their Real-time Gaming Algorithms Controller State Machine, which they say provides better processing then mCable
mClassic upscales and implements processing in YUV4:4:4 up to 2160p24/30 while 2160p50/60 is 4:2:0. In pass-thru mode, RGB 4:4:4 in will be RGB 4:4:4 out
Future products that will support HDMI 2.0 and should allow for their scaling/processing in YUV4:4:4 up to 2160p50/60
My suggestion was acknowledged to allow the user access and the ability to adjust the processing settings to their likeness in future products
Didn't ask, but I recall reading cost will be around $100 so hopefully someone with a capture card picks one up and posts results


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 1:30 pm 



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 100
Im a huge fan of paying big bucks for worse image quality :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 1:29 am 


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This thing also drastically alters the gamma of the signal, most likely crushing black details (like MS loved to do with the Xbox One). This is just a bad product and I see no reason to add it to anyones setup. For 480p sources the ringing is awful and for 4k, if we’re lucky, it will only crush shadow detail.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:35 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 583
Konsolkongen wrote:
This thing also drastically alters the gamma of the signal, most likely crushing black details (like MS loved to do with the Xbox One). This is just a bad product and I see no reason to add it to anyones setup. For 480p sources the ringing is awful and for 4k, if we’re lucky, it will only crush shadow detail.

Image


This gives a sense of higher contrast, which people can perceive as a better image. When watching some video content on flat panels I have been guilty of using a non-correct gamma level to attain a greater sense of depth in the picture while losing a bit of black detail as a tradeoff.

I wouldn't recommend spending $100 or whatever on a cable like this to achieve that though. The TV you have most likely can already give you pretty much the same edge-sharpening and gamma changes.


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:39 pm 


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Definitely. You could just set the RGB range incorrectly ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 8:23 pm 


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If anyone's thinking of using the mCable to upscale 1080p games to 4K, forget it. I tried, it doesn't work. NTSC games running at 1080p60Hz will just pass through without enhancement (AKA, a waste of $100). The 1080p --> 4K upscale + AA feature is intended for 1080p24Hz content (Bluray), although the marketing doesn't make a big effort to bring this to your attention. It works and looks great on movies, when it doesn't completely screw up (I noticed it bunk a space scene in The Martian with flickering garbage on certain textures).

For 480p/720p content, the mCable upscales to 1080p + AA. There is one caveat, it stretches some 4:3 content to 16:9, which can be squished back to 4:3 with your TV's aspect setting. On my old TCL Roku TV, this worked great. My VIZIO P55-F1 rudely believes it knows which aspect setting is the "correct" one based on the source input. It will sometimes lock out the aspect button (not always, depends on the source) and prevent me from changing it. For example, I use it for N64 content integer scaled to 720p60 with the ultraHDMI Mod. The mCable then upscales to 1080p60 + AA. There is one caveat, it stretches the 4:3 content to 16:9, which I could just squish back with the aspect setting on my old TCL Roku TV (which had no inflated ego). It looked great IMO. It would be as easy as changing the aspect setting on my new VIZIO, but NOOOO...it thinks it's smarter than me. INFURIATING.

BTW, I would recommend the mCable for 720p consoles whole heartedly, if it were in the $60 price range. Especially the PS3, as bluray upscaled to 4k is noticeable. However, at $100 you'd need to be a real videophile and fine with the limitations. I kept mine, and like it, but it's not a plug and play solution by any means.


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:18 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 583
For HD to HD scaling (such as 720p to 1080p) an older Extron DSC HD-HD will do a much better job than this cable, and probably at about the same or maybe even lower cost.

For upscaling movies to 4K then it may be okay. Does anyone know how much the newer Extron DSC HD-HD 4K sells for?


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:29 am 


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Can it upscale and add Anti-Aliasing in under 1ms, and do it all in the cable? That's the appeal. If the mCable had switches to enable/disable the AA and cycle output aspect ratios (4:3 and 16:9 at least), it would totally be worth $100 IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 10:31 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 472
fernan1234 wrote:
Does anyone know how much the newer Extron DSC HD-HD 4K sells for?


Their 4k scaler costs $3,000 USD. You want the PLUS A model as it does up to 4k60 4:4:4 as the A model does just up to 4k30 4:4:4.

RIP-Felix wrote:
If the mCable had switches to enable/disable the AA and cycle output aspect ratios (4:3 and 16:9 at least), it would totally be worth $100 IMO.


mClassic can do all that with better processing (or so they say).


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:51 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 583
Seraphic wrote:
Their 4k scaler costs $3,000 USD. You want the PLUS A model as it does up to 4k60 4:4:4 as the A model does just up to 4k30 4:4:4.


Well, gonna have to wait a few years for these to show up used for affordable prices. I'd really like to see how good the 4k upscaling looks. I expect it to be quite nice based on how great the scaling on earlier models is.


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 5:21 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 261
Why the complete rejection of this product? Dubious tech specs? Unlikely promises of improvement? On the surface, the pictures look much better to me, so I guess I'm missing what the backlash is all about...


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 6:38 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 583
ldeveraux wrote:
Why the complete rejection of this product? Dubious tech specs? Unlikely promises of improvement? On the surface, the pictures look much better to me, so I guess I'm missing what the backlash is all about...


Probably based on experience with the previous "gaming edition" cable of theirs. Have you ever seen one in action? Don't just go by the pictures they post. I gave one a try some time ago and let's just say I was very glad I could do a return. Never again believing in a miracle one-cable-does-it-all fantasy.


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 7:45 pm 


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fernan1234 wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
Why the complete rejection of this product? Dubious tech specs? Unlikely promises of improvement? On the surface, the pictures look much better to me, so I guess I'm missing what the backlash is all about...


Probably based on experience with the previous "gaming edition" cable of theirs. Have you ever seen one in action? Don't just go by the pictures they post. I gave one a try some time ago and let's just say I was very glad I could do a return. Never again believing in a miracle one-cable-does-it-all fantasy.


It's defiantly not a miracle, but it does do what they claim. Not to the degree they advertise in the photos mind you, that's pretty ridiculous. I too almost returned mine, it's not very useful or 240p/480i era consoles. It works well for a PS3/4. You have to set output of the console to 720p, so the mCable does the upscale and add AA. You also need to be sure the bluray output is set to 1080p24Hz to take advantage of the 4k upscale +AA. That is obviously the intended use case for this cable and the reason I kept mine.

I originally bought mine for a very special use case:
ultraHDMI modded N64 --[lossless integer scaled 480p, adding no lag]--> mCable --[1080p + AA, adding 1ms of lag]--> TV, whose internal scaler handles the 1080p --> 4K upscale, this adds the least amount of softness and input lag possible with my setup. Unfortunately, it also stretches the image to 16:9. The aspect ratio control can squish it back, if your TV doesn't lock it out, like my VIZIO does...Grrr. On my TCL Roku TV I can squish it back to normal (4:3). It looks great (IMO), and lag is practically non existent. I'd post screen caps, but I don't have a cap card. So there certainly is a place for this cable.

It gets hate because it's not easy to figure out how to use and may not do what you need it for. No way to change it's settings doesn't help either. It does what it damn well pleases. I've had issues with audio dropping out, flickering video, and otherwise funky behavior too. But most of all, it's too expensive. So yeah...the hate is totally understandable.


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:02 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 261
RIP-Felix wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
Why the complete rejection of this product? Dubious tech specs? Unlikely promises of improvement? On the surface, the pictures look much better to me, so I guess I'm missing what the backlash is all about...


Probably based on experience with the previous "gaming edition" cable of theirs. Have you ever seen one in action? Don't just go by the pictures they post. I gave one a try some time ago and let's just say I was very glad I could do a return. Never again believing in a miracle one-cable-does-it-all fantasy.


It's defiantly not a miracle, but it does do what they claim. Not to the degree they advertise in the photos mind you, that's pretty ridiculous. I too almost returned mine, it's not very useful or 240p/480i era consoles. It works well for a PS3/4. You have to set output of the console to 720p, so the mCable does the upscale and add AA. You also need to be sure the bluray output is set to 1080p24Hz to take advantage of the 4k upscale +AA. That is obviously the intended use case for this cable and the reason I kept mine.

I originally bought mine for a very special use case:
ultraHDMI modded N64 --[lossless integer scaled 480p, adding no lag]--> mCable --[1080p + AA, adding 1ms of lag]--> TV, whose internal scaler handles the 1080p --> 4K upscale, this adds the least amount of softness and input lag possible with my setup. Unfortunately, it also stretches the image to 16:9. The aspect ratio control can squish it back, if your TV doesn't lock it out, like my VIZIO does...Grrr. On my TCL Roku TV I can squish it back to normal (4:3). It looks great (IMO), and lag is practically non existent. I'd post screen caps, but I don't have a cap card. So there certainly is a place for this cable.

It gets hate because it's not easy to figure out how to use and may not do what you need it for. No way to change it's settings doesn't help either. It does what it damn well pleases. I've had issues with audio dropping out, flickering video, and otherwise funky behavior too. But most of all, it's too expensive. So yeah...the hate is totally understandable.


Thanks for the specifics. If it's wild without a means to control it, that sounds pretty crummy.


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:39 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 139
RIP-Felix wrote:
I originally bought mine for a very special use case:
ultraHDMI modded N64 --[lossless integer scaled 480p, adding no lag]--> mCable --[1080p + AA, adding 1ms of lag]--> TV, whose internal scaler handles the 1080p --> 4K upscale, this adds the least amount of softness and input lag possible with my setup. Unfortunately, it also stretches the image to 16:9. The aspect ratio control can squish it back, if your TV doesn't lock it out, like my VIZIO does...Grrr. On my TCL Roku TV I can squish it back to normal (4:3). It looks great (IMO), and lag is practically non existent. I'd post screen caps, but I don't have a cap card. So there certainly is a place for this cable.


Nothing you posted indicates a ‘place’ for this cable. Surely you would be better off buying an Extron HD HD as someone else suggested (if your 4K TV won’t accept a 1600x1200 signal from the ultrahdmi) and downscaling 1600x1200 to 1080p.


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 2:38 am 


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strayan wrote:
RIP-Felix wrote:
I originally bought mine for a very special use case:
ultraHDMI modded N64 --[lossless integer scaled 480p, adding no lag]--> mCable --[1080p + AA, adding 1ms of lag]--> TV, whose internal scaler handles the 1080p --> 4K upscale, this adds the least amount of softness and input lag possible with my setup. Unfortunately, it also stretches the image to 16:9. The aspect ratio control can squish it back, if your TV doesn't lock it out, like my VIZIO does...Grrr. On my TCL Roku TV I can squish it back to normal (4:3). It looks great (IMO), and lag is practically non existent. I'd post screen caps, but I don't have a cap card. So there certainly is a place for this cable.


Nothing you posted indicates a ‘place’ for this cable. Surely you would be better off buying an Extron HD HD as someone else suggested (if your 4K TV won’t accept a 1600x1200 signal from the ultrahdmi) and downscaling 1600x1200 to 1080p.


Its place is for upscaling blurays to 4k and removing jaggies from PS3 games, without the need for yet another box in the AV setup. I have mine pared with a fully backwards compatible PS3. And there it'll stay!

I mentioned the N64 because I was curious. It's just that I couldn't find anyone who had tried it. So I wanted to see for myself. I wanted to see what removing the software AA via Poregon’s ROM patches, and VI De-blur with the ultraHDMI, could look like letting the mCable do its work. The mCable's AA is FAR less aggressive than Nintendo's AA, so I was hoping it might strike a good balance. It does work and I like it, but it's not worth $100 for an underwhelming result. So I don't recommend it for this use.

As for it's wildness. 4k upscale isn't perfect for Blurays, but it's really depends on the movie. The OSSC has issues with it at times. That's mainly where I 've has audio/video drops. One example, audio drop happened when I used it with the OSSC, outputting 480p from Dreamcast --> mcable, which upscaled to 1080p + AA. Looked GREAT, but again 16:9 stretched and audio would drop when changing resolution. Toggling an audio option on the OSSC resolves it and so can unplugging/plugging in again (could be my TV, the OSSC, I'm not sure). It's a bit wonky, but looks really great. I'm in the next batch for the DCHDMI, so that will be the better solution to using the OSSC. I plan to try the mCable there. That might prove to be a nice paring...who knows?


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 11:50 am 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 261
I'll be honest, I'd be all over this just to test it out, maybe fool around with it in different configurations, see what anomalies exist. That price is insane though so the risk/reward doesn't swing in my favor. That's like early 2000s Monster HDMI cable prices...


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 12:29 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 472
Found out that the mClassic will auto detect color range. So hopefully that will avoid crushed blacks for anyone with a capture card that can test it out.

If the TV does not support full range and source is full range, mClassic will convert it to limited range.
If the TV support full range, you can set input to full range and mClassic will not do any conversion.

Announcement of the release date will be at e3 and the price will be under $100


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:53 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 472
A user on another forum I check out every now and then seems to have a pre-production review unit of the mClassic and posted some screens.

MClassic processing off
http://pics.theouterhaven.net/di/T77N/mclassic-testing-fast_rmx-off.png

Mclassic processing On
http://pics.theouterhaven.net/di/G0G7/mclassic-testing-fast_rmx-on.png


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:16 pm 


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Some people will probably find the massively oversaturated colors more pleasing :/

While I can understand the appeal of the "anti aliasing", I much prefer the original stair stepping without ringing.

I think it looks bad, but I must admit I'm a bit surprised that it doesn't crush more detail than it actually does.


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:11 pm 


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I would like to toggle off the contrast enhancement, which I think is unnecessary in most scenarios. It's a cheap trick to fool sheeple. At first glance it looks brighter, clearer, and overall better. Then you look at the dark details and realize information is being lost. There is certainly some crushing to black. Check out that dark region in the upper right of the screen caps (next to the time). It almost completely crushes the shadow detail to black. Give and take, I guess. Bright scene with lots of contrast and few dark areas might benefit, but I'd probably turn it off in dark scenes.

There is a compelling reason to buy this. My TV, and may others, don't accept 960p (from an OSSC, for example). So no line doubling 480p for me. The mCable however, recognizes 960p and upscales to 1080p which my TV does accept. It looks better than my TV's handling of 480p and with less input latency. The problem is that it forces 16:9. My VIZIO refuses to allow me to squeeze it back with the angle button, arrogantly proclaiming it already chose the best mode (very rude). The mClassic is supposed to allow you to toggle a "retro mode" which outputs 4:3. So problem solved. The mClassic might be a good alternative to buying a more forgiving TV (input resolution and aspect ratio wise).

As a follow up, I finally received and installed my DCHDMI last week. I can confirm that properly 2x upscaled 480p DTV to 960p in a 1080p black frame w/HQ2X outperforms the mCable in every way. The closest I could get to original aspect ratio was to set my OSSC to 480p passthrough --> mCable (gaming Edition) --> 1080p with AA. This seemed to produce a slightly wide image (not 16:9, but a little wider than 4:3), but it was way softer than the DCHDMI. The AA from 480p --> 1080p was too aggressive! From 960p -->1080p was more acceptable, but again I could only get 16:9 out of it. The mClassic might shine here though. I'd be interested to find out.


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:28 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
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RIP-Felix wrote:
There is a compelling reason to buy this. My TV, and may others, don't accept 960p (from an OSSC, for example). So no line doubling 480p for me. The mCable however, recognizes 960p and upscales to 1080p which my TV does accept.


Better: buy an Extron HD scaler and scale stuff to 1080p with a much better scaling algorithm and without the BS effects this cable tacks on.


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:17 pm 



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fernan1234 wrote:
RIP-Felix wrote:
There is a compelling reason to buy this. My TV, and may others, don't accept 960p (from an OSSC, for example). So no line doubling 480p for me. The mCable however, recognizes 960p and upscales to 1080p which my TV does accept.


Better: buy an Extron HD scaler and scale stuff to 1080p with a much better scaling algorithm and without the BS effects this cable tacks on.


Can I assume you recommend this for HDMI? Which model Extron? Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:28 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
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ldeveraux wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
RIP-Felix wrote:
There is a compelling reason to buy this. My TV, and may others, don't accept 960p (from an OSSC, for example). So no line doubling 480p for me. The mCable however, recognizes 960p and upscales to 1080p which my TV does accept.


Better: buy an Extron HD scaler and scale stuff to 1080p with a much better scaling algorithm and without the BS effects this cable tacks on.


Can I assume you recommend this for HDMI? Which model Extron? Thanks!


I use a DSC HD-HD unit.


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 Post subject: Re: Marseille mClassic (Tech Specs Posted)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:15 pm 



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fernan1234 wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
Can I assume you recommend this for HDMI? Which model Extron? Thanks!


I use a DSC HD-HD unit.

A DSC 301 HD would also work, but also has a DE-15 input; so, if you pair your HDMI source with an HDMI to VGA converter, you can reduce mode-switching time from about 3 seconds to about 1 second.


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