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 Post subject: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 7:54 pm 



Joined: 09 Dec 2016
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Was hoping someone here might be able to answer a question I have regarding the Borti N64 Advanced mod. I am looking to get this done in the near future and use it on my multi format BVM in 480p, and now 720p as well. However, due to my setup, I would like to use it via component using a set of HD Retrovision cables. What I'm not sure of though is if those cables will work using the higher resolutions. They make sure to state on their site that they only support standard resolutions, but I'm thinking (hoping) that's just to avoid confusion about their inability to upscale, and that they'll display whatever is passed to them. If any of the good folks here could answer that question or point me in the right direction, I'd very much appreciate it!


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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 9:50 pm 


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Well, N64A does output component natively though and it is not too difficult to build a cable - if your main goal is component output then I don't think HD Retrovision cables are the best way to go.

The HD Retrovision expects RGBS, so it might work if you set the N64A to output RGBS, but you would probably need to specifically remove composite video output and replace it with composite sync. Still I am not sure if anyone has managed to feed a 480p/720p signal into an HD Retrovision cable so I don't know if their transcoding circuit would actually accept it.


Last edited by Kez on Thu May 09, 2019 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 10:21 pm 



Joined: 09 Dec 2016
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Well, to be honest, I wasn't exactly wed to the HD Retrovision cable (and I didn't necessarily want to drop that kinda coin on cables either...), but my plan was to use the last slot on my gscart for something else and to run this through component to a crosspoint. I don't do my own modding though, and I've never built cables, so I was looking for a ready made solution. Your post did give me an idea though....I see Borti does have instructions on his site on how to wire up a component cable, so maybe I'll see if one of the cable sellers can build me one.

Still though, if there is anyone out there who has tested this mod with an HD Retrovision cable, I'd be interested to hear the results.


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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 11:55 pm 


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It would be silly to put a modded N64 through an extra unneeded video encoder.

Buy the correct cable imo.


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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:11 am 


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Is that Sony BVM a CRT, correct? If so, not sure why you would want to use all these extra steps to play Nintendo 64 games on a BVM CRT. The Advanced Borti Mod is great, I have had it done back in 2017, however if you plan to play the games on a CRT, you should know that most Nintendo 64 games are closer to 240p than 480p or 720p, upscaling might make sense if you plan on playing it on a modern display, but for a CRT stick with the games native resolution and the native RGB, both of which the Sony BVM can handle.


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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:19 am 


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Eh, sometimes I play with Line x2 on my D series BVM (I haven't done the x3 update yet). In some situations I prefer the line-doubled look over thick scanlines.


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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:32 am 



Joined: 09 Dec 2016
Posts: 35
Yes, it is a D series BVM, and while I can understand the argument for playing at the native resolution, 480p on these monitors is incredible. I don't see any reason to think that 480p on these 3D games wouldn't look great. If I find 240p is the way to go though, so be it, but it's also useful to have the mod if I should ever want to use it on a flatscreen (Mario Kart session with friends for instance) since the 720p should look good on an HD set.


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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:36 am 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 664
I also think it's worth it either for a CRT or a flat panel. The 480p look on a BVM looks very nice, though more often than not I still default back to the original 240p. The pseudo 720p is currently displayed stretched in a 16:9 ratio. I'm hoping eventually Borti will make it 4:3 with borders. I think N64 games could look fantastic with the correct aspect ration line tripled on a BVM.


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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:36 am 


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There are two ways to get the line2x features working with HDR cables. One is by replacing the composite video output with 75 ohm CSYNC from the N64A board. You won't be able to output in composite video with this option. The second option is you can open up the multiAV connector end of the cable and switch the sync line from composite video to CSYNC:
Spoiler: show
Image


With either option you should have 75 ohm CSYNC from the N64A board. Seeing that you're using a BVM, you won't even need HD Retrovision cables, as long as the inputs you're using accept both RGB and YPbPr. You can use the same RGB SCART cables that are already connected to your monitor. All you'll need to do is set the video output on the N64A to YPbPr and set to YPbPr on your BVM.
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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:44 am 



Joined: 09 Dec 2016
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So the reason I wanted to use component is because I wanted to repurpose one of the inputs on my gscart. Additionally, if I were using component then I could also easily use it with a flatscreen should the need arise. My initial thought was just to use HDR cables if they would work since they are available, but I agree with others in the thread here that it would be best to just have a component cable built....assuming I can get one anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:48 am 


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jamon1567 wrote:
since the 720p should look good on an HD set.


The "pseudo" 720p output from the N64A is not a true 720p signal. When outputting in 720p via component to either of my HDTV's I get no picture. It's an unrecognizable signal. The only way I've been able to get the N64A's 720p output to work on either of my HDTV's is by wiring up the console for VGA output via RGBHV and using a VGA->HDMI converter.

If you want to connect to your HDTV, an alternative to HD Retrovision cables is Voultar's SCART to BNC adapter:

Image

Connect your euroSCART cable to this and the RGB outputs can be used as YPbPr.
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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:50 am 



Joined: 09 Dec 2016
Posts: 35
fernan1234 wrote:
I also think it's worth it either for a CRT or a flat panel. The 480p look on a BVM looks very nice, though more often than not I still default back to the original 240p. The pseudo 720p is currently displayed stretched in a 16:9 ratio. I'm hoping eventually Borti will make it 4:3 with borders. I think N64 games could look fantastic with the correct aspect ration line tripled on a BVM.


That's interesting to know about 720p. I haven't seen much on it other than it was dropped a few months back in a firmware. Agree it would be preferable if he could get it working at 4:3.


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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:53 am 



Joined: 09 Dec 2016
Posts: 35
unmaker wrote:
jamon1567 wrote:
since the 720p should look good on an HD set.


The "pseudo" 720p output from the N64A is not a true 720p signal. When outputting in 720p via component to either of my HDTV's I get no picture. It's an unrecognizable signal. The only way I've been able to get the N64A's 720p output to work on either of my HDTV's is by wiring up the console for VGA output via RGBHV and using a VGA->HDMI converter.

If you want to connect to your HDTV, an alternative to HD Retrovision cables is Voultar's SCART to BNC adapter:

Connect your euroSCART cable to this and the RGB outputs can be used as YPbPr.


Interesting...this is good info cuz like I just said, I haven't really seen much about the 720p other than it was a thing. I guess I need to do a little more research on that, but I've wanted this mod for a while when it was only promising 480p, so I'll be opting for it either way.

Edit: it does strike me as a little odd this wouldn't work though considering the OSSC is just multiplying the line count itself. I have seen some TV's are incompatible even with that, but it doesn't seem like an issue for most. Do you have an OSSC by chance, and if so, does it work on these same sets?


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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 2:13 am 


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jamon1567 wrote:
So the reason I wanted to use component is because I wanted to repurpose one of the inputs on my gscart. Additionally, if I were using component then I could also easily use it with a flatscreen should the need arise. My initial thought was just to use HDR cables if they would work since they are available, but I agree with others in the thread here that it would be best to just have a component cable built....assuming I can get one anyway.


There is no reason to use the HD retrovision cable with the N64Advanced mod. The N64Advanced mod video mode can be changed dynamically through the on screen display. Just get a regular SNES SCART cable and a SCART to BNC breakout adapter. Then you can use all the N64Advanced video modes and connect the N64 to a gscartsw, extron crosspoint, PVM, or BVM.
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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 2:23 am 



Joined: 09 Dec 2016
Posts: 35
the Goat wrote:
jamon1567 wrote:
So the reason I wanted to use component is because I wanted to repurpose one of the inputs on my gscart. Additionally, if I were using component then I could also easily use it with a flatscreen should the need arise. My initial thought was just to use HDR cables if they would work since they are available, but I agree with others in the thread here that it would be best to just have a component cable built....assuming I can get one anyway.


There is no reason to use the HD retrovision cable with the N64Advanced mod. The N64Advanced mod video mode can be changed dynamically through the on screen display. Just get a regular SNES SCART cable and a SCART to BNC breakout adapter. Then you can use all the N64Advanced video modes and connect the N64 to a gscartsw, extron crosspoint, PVM, or BVM.


Do you have a gscart by chance? I wasn't sure how it would behave if I fed it 480p or 720p. For reference, I have v3.4 if it makes any difference. I still think I'd end up using the 64 strictly through component just because I have 8 other consoles I'll be using through the gscart. As you suggest though, I could just use a scart to bnc adapter and still hook it up to the crosspoint, but it just isn't as elegant.


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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 2:49 am 


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jamon1567 wrote:
Edit: it does strike me as a little odd this wouldn't work though considering the OSSC is just multiplying the line count itself. I have seen some TV's are incompatible even with that, but it doesn't seem like an issue for most. Do you have an OSSC by chance, and if so, does it work on these same sets?


I do have an OSSC and it works with every N64A output including its "pseudo" 720p. I was wrong about the previous post stating 720p RGBHV to a VGA->HDMI converter being the only way. Sending the N64A's 720p output via RGBs and YPbPr to the OSSC also works but it doesn't look the best. 240p in line5x and 480p in pass-through or 2x look better.

I think the issue has to do with how a HDTV's component input works. I think it's limited to 480p and anything higher than that will not work. With an OSSC, the signal is being transmitted via HDMI which can handle higher resolutions.
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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 2:53 am 


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jamon1567 wrote:
Do you have a gscart by chance? I wasn't sure how it would behave if I fed it 480p or 720p. For reference, I have v3.4 if it makes any difference. I still think I'd end up using the 64 strictly through component just because I have 8 other consoles I'll be using through the gscart. As you suggest though, I could just use a scart to bnc adapter and still hook it up to the crosspoint, but it just isn't as elegant.

Yes, I use my N64Advanced through a gscartsw and an extron crosspoint to a BVM-D32. The 480p signal works great. I have not been able to update the firmware. So I don't have the 720p option yet.
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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 3:28 am 



Joined: 09 Dec 2016
Posts: 35
unmaker wrote:
jamon1567 wrote:
Edit: it does strike me as a little odd this wouldn't work though considering the OSSC is just multiplying the line count itself. I have seen some TV's are incompatible even with that, but it doesn't seem like an issue for most. Do you have an OSSC by chance, and if so, does it work on these same sets?


I do have an OSSC and it works with every N64A output including its "pseudo" 720p. I was wrong about the previous post stating 720p RGBHV to a VGA->HDMI converter being the only way. Sending the N64A's 720p output via RGBs and YPbPr to the OSSC also works but it doesn't look the best. 240p in line5x and 480p in pass-through or 2x look better.

I think the issue has to do with how a HDTV's component input works. I think it's limited to 480p and anything higher than that will not work. With an OSSC, the signal is being transmitted via HDMI which can handle higher resolutions.


I would be interested to see then what would happen on either of my HDTV's as I've had 720p and 1080i sources play fine through my component inputs on both. I never even heard of an issue such as you describe.


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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 3:31 am 



Joined: 09 Dec 2016
Posts: 35
the Goat wrote:
jamon1567 wrote:
Do you have a gscart by chance? I wasn't sure how it would behave if I fed it 480p or 720p. For reference, I have v3.4 if it makes any difference. I still think I'd end up using the 64 strictly through component just because I have 8 other consoles I'll be using through the gscart. As you suggest though, I could just use a scart to bnc adapter and still hook it up to the crosspoint, but it just isn't as elegant.

Yes, I use my N64Advanced through a gscartsw and an extron crosspoint to a BVM-D32. The 480p signal works great. I have not been able to update the firmware. So I don't have the 720p option yet.


I may just end up doing this as well then. I don't really NEED that extra slot on the gscart (was gonna add a PS1, but I already have a PS2 that I'll be running via component through the crosspoint), but if I can get a component cable for the N64 built at a reasonable price then I'll probably do it anyway so using on a flatscreen is an option.


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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 5:52 am 


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jamon1567 wrote:
I would be interested to see then what would happen on either of my HDTV's as I've had 720p and 1080i sources play fine through my component inputs on both. I never even heard of an issue such as you describe.


I'm curious as well. I suspect you'll have different results this time because it's not a true 720p signal unlike other sources you may have used. The N64A is not capable of outputting a high-definition digital signal. The ADV7125 IC it uses does digital-to-analog conversion only. It's outputting a unique "pseudo" 720p analog signal.
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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 9:19 am 


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jamon1567 wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
I also think it's worth it either for a CRT or a flat panel. The 480p look on a BVM looks very nice, though more often than not I still default back to the original 240p. The pseudo 720p is currently displayed stretched in a 16:9 ratio. I'm hoping eventually Borti will make it 4:3 with borders. I think N64 games could look fantastic with the correct aspect ration line tripled on a BVM.


That's interesting to know about 720p. I haven't seen much on it other than it was dropped a few months back in a firmware. Agree it would be preferable if he could get it working at 4:3.


Yeah, none of the broadcast monitors display 720p in 4:3 wh3ther they are from Sony, Ikegami or JVC, it's all 16:9, even on a 4:3 monitor. 960x720 is not a standard resolution, only a few handful of japanese visual novels used it as far as I know, such as this game:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13 ... escription


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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 2:11 pm 



Joined: 09 Dec 2016
Posts: 35
unmaker wrote:
jamon1567 wrote:
I would be interested to see then what would happen on either of my HDTV's as I've had 720p and 1080i sources play fine through my component inputs on both. I never even heard of an issue such as you describe.


I'm curious as well. I suspect you'll have different results this time because it's not a true 720p signal unlike other sources you may have used. The N64A is not capable of outputting a high-definition digital signal. The ADV7125 IC it uses does digital-to-analog conversion only. It's outputting a unique "pseudo" 720p analog signal.


I get what you're saying, but wouldn't the same hold true of the 480p signal? I thought it was just doubling and tripling the 240 line count for both?


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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:30 pm 



Joined: 31 Jul 2019
Posts: 4
Hi, I assembled a filter add on for the first time, but I think something is not right.
I Uploaded a few pictures https://imgur.com/a/GlYAOQB

9.5Mhz - it seems like the characters on the on screen menu have some kind of shadow (and maybe the characters seems to be a bit "squished")
18MHz - shadow is smaller, but there is a slight shimmer, barely visible jailbars in background (on the picture cant be seen)
36MHz - the characters have no shadows, but there are very visible jailbars. when I chose 2x line doubling, the picture is shimmering, too

I took the picture of a 26" HD ready LG TV via component input.
I have 100uF capacitors in series in the YPBPR cable.

Without the filter add-on the picture looked like the 36MHz picture.

Do you think this is normal? If not do you have any idea what can be the problem?

with RGB scart on a sony trinitron the picture looks good, but it looked good without the filter add-on as well. But I know crt can hide picture faults and probably it has a low pass filter by default.


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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:48 pm 


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Freedy wrote:
I have 100uF capacitors in series in the YPBPR cable.


I believe this is your issue. Why 100uF? You want 220uF caps in series. You can even try putting the caps inside the console and have your cable be completely pass-through. Apparently this is the ideal way to transmit the signal.
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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:57 pm 



Joined: 31 Jul 2019
Posts: 4
Sorry, I did not remember correctly, I chose the value according the guide on borti's github page. I have 220uF capacitors in series not 100uF.

EDIT: I think I will make an other one today or tomorrow to test it with an other N64 and N64adv board


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 Post subject: Re: Borti N64 Advanced mod
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:35 pm 



Joined: 31 Jul 2019
Posts: 4
I assembled an other filter board and tried it on an other n64 with n64adv, and its basically the same.

The cable I am using is a cheap aliexpress wii component cable I modified with an N64 plug. I think I am gonna build a new cable using quality shielded wires. I've just ordered RCA plugs for it. Can't wait to try it out.

Although I don't understand why the shadow appears when lovering the cutting frequency and why it is not present at higher frequency cut.


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