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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:00 pm 


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the Goat wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:
So, is this useful (other than the shielding) if I just have my DC hooked into a 480i TV?
Any picture improvements?

This product will not help you in any way, if your display is limited to 480i.

that's not completely true, you'd still get the benefit of impedance matched properly attenuated video levels


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 2:13 pm 



Joined: 12 Sep 2018
Posts: 28
To be completely honest, that does depend on what you are using the cable for - typically a games room with longer runs going around shelving benefits most from impedance correct cabling, and while I can’t test all scenarios we’ve definitely had a huge reduction in the kind of customer service questions reporting ghosting effects since we introduced it - bear in mind those customers typically reported a convoluted setup with long runs and cabling going into switchboxes, out of switchboxes for another added distance, all that stuff. The frustration being we can’t buy up every potential setup to test because there are so many now. The properly impedance correct cabling fixes this for both us and the customers.

But if you have a super crappy mass produced Dreamcast Scart, with crappy shielding - Either way you will benefit with an upgrade. I’d say only those with an official cable from Sega should have pause as to whether to upgrade if their setup has short runs. However. I don’t know how good the official Dreamcast Scart was - the official Saturn Scart was garbage. I mean back in the day I had an DC official cable but I couldn’t tell you how well it performed because I wasn’t as fussy then and can’t honestly remember. I was mostly running Sega consoles in s-video at the time - not too normal for a European but I was a games journalist for Sega magazines using an s-video capture card for screenshots.

And re the TVs disallowing 480p because the Scart standard is to sync off composite video. While this is the standard, things have deviated from it before. S-video over Scart is not in the original standard, but is provided by some TVs. Scart tvs have a sync stripper inside the tv on the input, and I don’t know of one that doesn’t accept csync - none of them say they do on the spec sheet but they all do far as I know. They just take in regular csync at any level and chuck out TTL csync. We’ve heard rumours that some TVs don’t accept csync but it could just be that - rumours.

Doesn’t seem too much of a stretch for manufacturers to have provided the functionality, but they opted not to. Could be because the 31khz signal damages a 15khz screen (does it? I’m not sure.)


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 4:24 pm 


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Posts: 741
Every other analog output solution on the market including the OEM ones just pass along the over driven (~790mVpp) RGB from the console. Except maybe the RGC one. So if nothing else, people will certainly benefit from yours providing the correct RGB amplitude


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 8:38 pm 


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Posts: 1925
maxtherabbit wrote:
the Goat wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:
So, is this useful (other than the shielding) if I just have my DC hooked into a 480i TV?
Any picture improvements?

This product will not help you in any way, if your display is limited to 480i.

that's not completely true, you'd still get the benefit of impedance matched properly attenuated video levels


Indeed, been hoping for an out-of-the-box solution that would fix these issues for a few years now.


dseleski wrote:
I’d say only those with an official cable from Sega should have pause as to whether to upgrade if their setup has short runs.


I read a few years back on some forums that the official Sega Dreamcast SCART cables are pretty bad, especially in terms of audio, dunno if it's true as I never owned one.


dseleski wrote:
I don’t know how good the official Dreamcast Scart was - the official Saturn Scart was garbage.


This I can confirm, I had an official Sega Saturn JP21 RGB Cable that I bought brand new directly from Japan a few years back and played a few games with it back in 2015 and the RGB picture quality was okay but not great, or at least not on par with the PS1 RGB picture that I was getting from an official Sony PS1 JP21 cable. I mentioned at the time to Fudoh the fact that the picture didn't look quite as nice as what I get from PS1, and he told me that the Saturn RGB picture quality should be on par with that of the PS1, so I wasn't sure what was the problem was. Fast forward in 2019 I use my same exact Saturn unit, with the difference that I sold the official Sega JP21 RGB cable and instead got a Retro Access BNC CSYNC Saturn cable and the picture quality is perfect, definitly on par with the RGB picture I get from a PS1.


Last edited by Lawfer on Fri May 10, 2019 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 12:58 am 



Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 65
i tried to order, says May 19th...
will come back to order then :!:


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 1:21 am 


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davidwhangchoi wrote:
i tried to order, says May 19th...
will come back to order then :!:


Alot of people want them, so the demand is high, understandably so.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 7:16 pm 



Joined: 10 May 2014
Posts: 38
So does the 480p mode over SCART work on a SCART tv with this cabel or not?


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 7:32 pm 



Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 141
RetroBVM wrote:
So does the 480p mode over SCART work on a SCART tv with this cabel or not?

It depends on the TV.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 7:38 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1291
RetroBVM wrote:
So does the 480p mode over SCART work on a SCART tv with this cabel or not?

It really depends on whether or not your SCART TV will accept 480p over SCART, and we can't make that determination without knowing what kind of SCART TV you want to use this with.

Even with that information, my understanding is that, because commercial application of RGB SCART relies on composite video for the sync signal, and composite video is limited to 15kHz, that a TV will not allow 31kHz+ RGBS over its SCART input (the alternative being YPbPr over SCART, which is fairly rare); so I would not expect 480p to work over SCART except with a limited number of boutique devices, like the gscartsw, OSSC, or Framemeister.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 7:40 pm 


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I think TVs that have SCART and accept 480p in any form are gonna have VGA 99% of the time, seems like the safer option.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 8:40 pm 



Joined: 10 May 2014
Posts: 38
Then I will have to test to find out, if it works on my tvs. We should compile a list of TVs that work in 480p mode over SCART.

Is some working on RGB over SCART on the original Xbox in 720p and 1080i? (hi-res modes only work with component cables as far as I know, but the video chip supports RGB in 720p and 1080i)


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 8:59 pm 


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Posts: 499
Kez wrote:
I think TVs that have SCART and accept 480p in any form are gonna have VGA 99% of the time, seems like the safer option.


But that usually means swapping cables and inputs for some DC games, not being able to use the same SCART switch / video chain as other consoles, etc.

With this solution you flick a switch and you're done.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:17 pm 


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Posts: 1925
RetroBVM wrote:
Is some working on RGB over SCART on the original Xbox in 720p and 1080i? (hi-res modes only work with component cables as far as I know, but the video chip supports RGB in 720p and 1080i)


No the original Xbox only output 480i trough SCART.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:54 pm 


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Posts: 790
Location: Italy
RetroBVM wrote:
We should compile a list of TVs that work in 480p mode over SCART.

You mean CRT TVs? That would be easy.

LIST:

/


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 4:17 pm 



Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 65
Lawfer wrote:
davidwhangchoi wrote:
i tried to order, says May 19th...
will come back to order then :!:


Alot of people want them, so the demand is high, understandably so.

yeah..

oh man just realized the 19th is a sunday and i have work. whelp, i hope can get it in the afternoon when i get home.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 9:36 pm 



Joined: 08 Nov 2017
Posts: 16
I just got my cable today. I was using a toro box, but found it to be very unreliable, constantly dropping sync and being super finicky. The retro-access cable fits very nicely into the dreamcast and has worked great for my limited testing.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:21 pm 



Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 141
KonradKlaus wrote:
I just got my cable today. I was using a toro box, but found it to be very unreliable, constantly dropping sync and being super finicky. The retro-access cable fits very nicely into the dreamcast and has worked great for my limited testing.

What type of display are you connecting to?


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 3:14 am 



Joined: 08 Nov 2017
Posts: 16
the Goat wrote:
What type of display are you connecting to?


I was going Dreamcast -> Toro -> GscartSW -> OSSC -> Panasonic plasma. I had a hard time getting the VGA to work with the toro into the OSSC, but scart would work... it'd just go in and out every now and then or if, heaven forbid, a strong breeze or my daughter slightly moving either the dream cast, the scart cable, or the toro box it'd have no sync and I'd meticulously jiggle things till it work right. I have a feeling it was the connector from the DC to the toro... but unsure.

Now with the retro-access cable it seems pretty reliable.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 11:22 am 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 206
KonradKlaus wrote:
the Goat wrote:
What type of display are you connecting to?


I was going Dreamcast -> Toro -> GscartSW -> OSSC -> Panasonic plasma. I had a hard time getting the VGA to work with the toro into the OSSC, but scart would work... it'd just go in and out every now and then or if, heaven forbid, a strong breeze or my daughter slightly moving either the dream cast, the scart cable, or the toro box it'd have no sync and I'd meticulously jiggle things till it work right. I have a feeling it was the connector from the DC to the toro... but unsure.

Now with the retro-access cable it seems pretty reliable.


Awesome, this is exactly what I was hoping for! Going to test mine out as well!

EDIT: Eek, I tried out the SCART cable and it doesn't look as clean or bright as my current cable, the Hyperkin HDMI. I think I just wasted $50...


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 5:53 pm 



Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 65
ah darn i checked the website and must've missed the orders.

these are really hard to get


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 6:53 pm 



Joined: 29 Apr 2015
Posts: 22
davidwhangchoi wrote:
ah darn i checked the website and must've missed the orders.

these are really hard to get
They only sell what they can make daily and then go out of stock. Then the next day orders will open again. I'm sure the times are located somewhere but you just need to order at the start of their day

Sent from my INE-LX2 using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 7:50 pm 


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ldeveraux wrote:
EDIT: Eek, I tried out the SCART cable and it doesn't look as clean or bright as my current cable, the Hyperkin HDMI. I think I just wasted $50...


Sometimes a brighter image is still less accurate, traditional cables seem to crush lighter colours slightly so it makes sense the brightness would be lower. When you say clean, do you mean you are seeing actual noise?


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 8:16 pm 


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Posts: 1925
ldeveraux wrote:
EDIT: Eek, I tried out the SCART cable and it doesn't look as clean or bright as my current cable, the Hyperkin HDMI. I think I just wasted $50...


Teah that's the point, the video and RGB levels of the dreamcast are overblown and out of spec, this cable correct that issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 8:53 pm 


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Posts: 226
Location: UK
@maxtherabbit - I sent two emails to RGC asking about the use of attenuator networks in their DC cable and unfortunately haven't heard back.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 9:41 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 206
Kez wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
EDIT: Eek, I tried out the SCART cable and it doesn't look as clean or bright as my current cable, the Hyperkin HDMI. I think I just wasted $50...


Sometimes a brighter image is still less accurate, traditional cables seem to crush lighter colours slightly so it makes sense the brightness would be lower. When you say clean, do you mean you are seeing actual noise?


Yes, the colors were duller than with the HDMI. I didn't realize people prefer that? I certainly don't, so it's a detractor for me.

I shouldn't have said "clean" I should have said "sharp." I don't feel the image is as sharp as HDMI; the edges of sprites seem to blend into the background and generally look more messy to me. Again, maybe it's just my opinion on how I think it should look, not the design. I also obviously don't have the HDMI go through the OSSC, so maybe I have a setting on my that that causes this? I do have HDMI through the series of splitters, etc that @dirkswizzler posted about, and I really think it helped!


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 9:50 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 451
I don't think these should be judged going through an OSSC, but instead directly on an RGB monitor.

Who knows, to your taste the HDMI cable you have may still look better even on an RGB monitor going through a DAC, especially if you're used to the look it provides.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 11:28 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 206
fernan1234 wrote:
I don't think these should be judged going through an OSSC, but instead directly on an RGB monitor.

Who knows, to your taste the HDMI cable you have may still look better even on an RGB monitor going through a DAC, especially if you're used to the look it provides.


I assume that was meant for me? No quote ;) I don't have an RGB monitor so can't test that way, sorry. But again, this is my opinion, which often differs from everyone else's !


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 12:40 am 


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ldeveraux wrote:
Yes, the colors were duller than with the HDMI. I didn't realize people prefer that? I certainly don't, so it's a detractor for me.

I shouldn't have said "clean" I should have said "sharp." I don't feel the image is as sharp as HDMI; the edges of sprites seem to blend into the background and generally look more messy to me. Again, maybe it's just my opinion on how I think it should look, not the design. I also obviously don't have the HDMI go through the OSSC, so maybe I have a setting on my that that causes this? I do have HDMI through the series of splitters, etc that @dirkswizzler posted about, and I really think it helped!



Generally people prefer accurate colours; with no loss of visual information. Switching between overblown colours and accurate ones may make the image seem dull, but once your eyes adjust.. you'll normally find the image is more believable, has more "depth" and no lost detail. Obviously without looking at captures it's hard to be sure what's happening in your case.

The OSSC may be doing some extra processing, and if you are using different inputs perhaps your TV also has input-specific settings. I would check that Upsample 2x is off, set 480p line-mult to passthrough and maybe connect the OSSC to the HDMI port currently being used by the Hyperkin for a more direct comparison.

However if sharp pixels is what you want, setting the OSSC to x2 will increase it a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 1:30 am 



Joined: 12 Sep 2018
Posts: 28
Yeah any lack of sharpness from this cable will be due to settings on the OSSC. The cable passes RGB as-is with no processing bar the simple passive components needed. There’s no low pass filter or anything like that. I am no huge expert on setting the OSSC for Dreamcast because I put it on my big HDTV, played through a bunch of 2D in Sakura Taisen 3 (looked awesome) then got to the 3D part of said game and immediately switched it off (it looked horribly jaggy) then switched to a CRT.

So I don’t like how it looks on a big HDTV at all, even a really good one that is in the top choices for gaming sets. This would also be true for any HDMI solution.

Saying that an OSSC is a much better HDMI encoder than those sold cheaply built into cables. So you should be able to get similar if not identical results through settings. It’ll look a bit darker than cables that don’t attenuate the RGB levels down, but you should be able to get the same sharpness. Should certainly be less laggy through the OSSC too.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access Releases Dreamcast 15Khz/31Khz Scart/BNC Ca
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 2:35 am 



Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 65
muggsy wrote:
davidwhangchoi wrote:
ah darn i checked the website and must've missed the orders.

these are really hard to get
They only sell what they can make daily and then go out of stock. Then the next day orders will open again. I'm sure the times are located somewhere but you just need to order at the start of their day

Sent from my INE-LX2 using Tapatalk

i see it says 10am EST everyday now.

prior, when you clicked on the link, it just posted May 19th with no time. kinda hard to guess the hour they were open today. it's cool, i'll try tomorrow.


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