OSSC>VP50 Red Image

[ShmupJunkie]

Been combing these forums forever but first time posting hoping someone may have some insight. My setup is a SCART switch>Shinybow SB2840>Component 4X2. One out goes directly to a CRT. The second into an OSSC>VP50>TV (Vizio P55F1 in game mode).
I'm pretty familiar with the VP50 and have combed through every option I can think of on the OSSC but to no avail. For the DVDO to recognize any incoming signal at all from the OSSC, it has to be set in TX DVI output mode (this is a new 1.6 with HDMI out). When set to DVI, I get a clean signal, but it is all red. On the CRT it shows up perfect. I've tried the various RGB/PC/Video input and output settings on the DVDO and TV. This happens identically with all of my sources, so it is not specific to any particular system (nes, snes, genesis, mvs)... they all do it.

Here is the most interesting part. If I run the signal from my OSSC into a Yamaha Receiver first HDMI input, then out from the Yamaha into the DVDO, not only can I get a perfect sync with the OSSC in TX HDMI output mode, but I get a fantastic image with most standard settings (4:3 generic etc). However, this isn't how I'd like to run things going forward as there is obviously an issue that the Yamaha is correcting. Once I start playing with optimal settings like 320X240 etc, I don't think I am getting as clean an image as I could, and I don't need an extra Yamaha in the chain to muddle up my troubleshooting. It likely isn't going to be as tolerant of certain settings.

Originally, I thought the SCART sync type was to blame, but the component conversion seems to work perfect on the CRT, as well as passing through the Yamaha. If I bypass the DVDO completely, I can get a picture directly on the TV as well. I have a feeling if I could get the VP50 to recognize the incoming signal with the OSSC set to TX HDMI output it would likely look fine. Changing it to DVI mode gets me the red image. I also tried bypassing my component switch and going straight from the Scart switch into the OSSC with the same result.

Is it recommended to run the OSSC in DVI mode out to the VP50? This is not a Pro unit btw. If so, anyone come across this before? Or does everyone run it OSSC HDMI out and get a proper signal? In that case, I must be missing some setting on either the OSSC or the VP50 that will get them to sync in HDMI out mode. I get a proper, stable image in DVI mode, it just looks like the pic below (if my link works). It looks like the color space or something sync related is off. Otherwise it's a stable, noise free image.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/dcnicsf67rgrq ... 7.jpg?dl=0

[NoAffinity]

The vp30 likely behaves similarly, and I can confirm from my vp30 that it is hit or miss depending on line mode, console, etc, on whether or not the vp** will accept the incoming signal.

But the real question is: why are you chaining the vp50?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[ShmupJunkie]

I’m chaining the vp50 for a couple reasons. First my TV seems to be finicky with a lot of my consoles through the OSSC. Besides the pc engine and mvs, it refuses to sync at all with the nt mini rgb out, snes and the genesis. Even in the simplest compatible modes like 2x generic 4:3. The vp50 definitely helped in that regard and I came across a lot of articles that mentioned the vp50 was a good companion to the OSSC (along with 6ms if lag).I have an older lumagen that I know well but unfortunately those are best for AV applications and add too much lag so it’s a no go. Playing something like blazing lasers, anything past 2 frames is practically unplayable to me, so the 6ms of the vp50 plus the 15-16ms of the TV in game mode works.

The other reason is I’m distributing the video signal across 4 displays around my home using a crestron DM switch as an experiment for controller extension and switching over cat6 with no noticeable lag (which is coming along great actually). So passing it through the vp50 gets me a solid, stable output that every TV can accept including the theater with only 6-7ms of lag added to the chain. Trying to matrix switch the OSSC directly out to 4 varying displays that may not like specific settings would get ridiculous. The vp50 output, once dialed in, gives me a consistent image on all HD displays. The CRT is split before any processing and straight analog so it's unaffected. I can play anywhere in the house. That part was pretty easy, the controller extension was the experiment.

When I pass the OSSC through another hdmi device I get a perfect image. Even just a splitter I have here. But straight into the vp50 gives me a red screen. Just odd. Maybe something is just up with pin outs or hardware on the HDMI port of the OSSC, not sure. For now I’m just keeping the receiver in the chain since it works and the 240p test suite shows no difference in delay, It’s simply switching through, but my goal is to engineer a complete system properly. Two of the other rooms have surround sound as well and the theater is Atmos, so the last thing I need are unnecessary links in the chain like a receiver or splitter that doesn't need to be there. So I’m just trying to figure out this odd quirk.

[Xyga]

Might be a timing issue but don't quote me on that. I remember a TV I had for a while demanded that I set the VP's output to 1919x1080, or something like that I don't remember clearly. Later I've found that an outdated HDMI cable was in fact the culprit...
Each VP model has its quirks though (like features that automatically trigger when you didn't ask), and the OSSC in the chain doesn't exactly make things easier, well, chaining scalers isn't without issues anyway in many cases, finding the cause can take time.

[ldeveraux]

The other reason is I’m distributing the video signal across 4 displays around my home using a crestron DM switch.

WTF?? Why? How? What's this all about? Don't gloss over the crazy part!

[BuckoA51]

Is your VP50 on the latest firmware?

[ShmupJunkie]

I'm running firmware v1.09.1.92z8 which I believe is the latest. I used to work with DVDO but it's been so long I've forgotten their nuances. I'll get this issue licked eventually but was hoping someone had run across the same issue in the past.

WTF?? Why? How? What's this all about? Don't gloss over the crazy part!

Why not? Now I can play any of my systems in any part of the house with the wife or my son instead of being limited to the one room. I own an AV company and it's my trade so I always have product laying around removed from projects. I happened to have an extra DM switch we took out of a job so I decided to put it to use. It's card based so I can customize it to my sources (HDMI, DVI-I, Component, etc). It's a great and incredibly flexible product, so getting it distributed everywhere wasn't that difficult. I know the product and have access to all the tools and programming software so I was able to make use of it. But it's still a modern AV device and not designed for old resolutions and gaming. So giving it a solid signal from the VP50 first is all I need to get it distributed everywhere. I just chose the VP50 due to it's low lag game mode I read up about. Once this massive project is all done, I was planning on documenting it and posting a video and some schematics on it. How I distributed the video and all the controller signals while maintaining just several milliseconds of lag from source to display. Of course the display adds its own lag depending on what you are using, but that is a constant.

However I am still in process on the most challenging part which is distributing the controllers to all the rooms. Pretty much every system has a compatible adapter to USB at this point. Some even have adapters that maintain the pin configurations over DB15 etc. I have been finding the most compatible adapters for each system and then running them into a mechanical 4 way switch (USB for now). One per controller (player 1 and 2). Was hoping to find an 8 or 16 port but haven't found one yet. I can then send that controller longer distance via CAT6 to my other rooms, also via a mechanical RJ45 switch. In each room I just have your typical pair of RJ45 data ports on the wall. I just plug my controller into the dongle that converts it from USB to RJ45 and plug it into the wall. So far I've noticed no latency between a local connection and the extended CAT6, which makes sense since it's point to point with no scaling/conversion happening. Or I can use a wireless USB controller and plug the receiver into the RJ45 port with the dongle in the local room. Then sit on the couch and play wireless while the actual system is 100ft away in another room upstairs. To be fair, I am using a USB controller of my choice and not the original system controller. But it's still a cool concept and if I am really looking for the authentic experience, that's what the local CRT is for. This was just to expand on the usefulness and be able to play them anywhere.

In the end I have a switch upstairs that I can select which room I am sending which controller. I was tired of dragging my nintendo switch base all over the house plugging it into various TVs because the bluetooth range stinks. That got me thinking, what if I can take my retro consoles in my office and get the controllers working everywhere. If I can do it with 8 and 16 bit consoles, then the newer USB consoles would be a piece of cake. So that's how it all started and the rabbit hole continues to deepen. The video part is easy and I can control all the switching with the push of a button, but the OSSC still needs to be powered on for any retro consoles, and all the USB and controller switching is manual for now. If I can get everything working perfectly there may or not be a market for an all-in-one solution, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. For now I'm stoked I can play my classic systems in my living room while the actual system sits upstairs. Or in the the bedroom or the theater. My wife and I like playing 2 players games and now we don't have to sit in my office/game room to do it. I guess when it's all done and I have just about every system connected (at least every one I care to own), I can make one of those crazy gameroom youtube videos lol.

[ZellSF]

I've never gotten a red image on the VP50.

No signal, sure (if the VP50 settings are wrong or the OSSC is in the wrong line double mode), but that's a blue screen.

[Xyga]

I did, though I don't remember much about it.

Except maybe a vague memory of something to do with in what order and timing the various machines in the chain were powered up.

That definitely wouldn't happen every time, but sometimes if I rushed too much.

[Fudoh]

I recall a bug seen on several VPs, where colors would go crazy dependin on the image position. Can you try to shift the image horiztontally and vertically to see if this makes any difference?

[Xyga]

^ oh yeah, reminds me of how when I was chaining xrgb2 + vp30 and getting wrong colors, you found that I had to switch the xrgb's output horizontally a bit and that solved the issue completely.

(occasional red screen on power was no related to that though)

[Fudoh]

If it was indeed input related (can't recall), editing the front/backporch settings on the OSSC might help as well.

[ShmupJunkie]

Thanks for the suggestions. I did try them this morning but didn't have any luck. Played with all the possible OSSC settings in sampling and advanced timing. Brought some values to an extreme where I would lose picture in either direction, but no change in actual color output. I tried some hot plugging and various orders as well. With TX Out as DVI it's red. With TX Out HDMI it's no signal.

The main odd issue is that I get no picture at all going direct to DVDO when the TX OUT is set to HDMI. Red with DVI, unkown signal when HDMI. Not no signal, but unknown signal per the INFO screen on the DVDO. The moment I run the HDMI signal through a splitter, extractor, or even my surround receiver before going into the DVDO, I get picture in TX OUT HDMI and it looks good. A head scratcher for sure. If I can't figure it out, I may run it through an HD Fury 4K splitter for now and call it a day, as long as it doesn't effect my signal quality or limit my tweaking options once I start playing with it.

[ldeveraux]

I'm running firmware v1.09.1.92z8 which I believe is the latest. I used to work with DVDO but it's been so long I've forgotten their nuances. I'll get this issue licked eventually but was hoping someone had run across the same issue in the past.

WTF?? Why? How? What's this all about? Don't gloss over the crazy part!

Why not? Now I can play any of my systems in any part of the house with the wife or my son instead of being limited to the one room. I own an AV company and it's my trade so I always have product laying around removed from projects. I happened to have an extra DM switch we took out of a job so I decided to put it to use. It's card based so I can customize it to my sources (HDMI, DVI-I, Component, etc). It's a great and incredibly flexible product, so getting it distributed everywhere wasn't that difficult. I know the product and have access to all the tools and programming software so I was able to make use of it. But it's still a modern AV device and not designed for old resolutions and gaming. So giving it a solid signal from the VP50 first is all I need to get it distributed everywhere. I just chose the VP50 due to it's low lag game mode I read up about. Once this massive project is all done, I was planning on documenting it and posting a video and some schematics on it. How I distributed the video and all the controller signals while maintaining just several milliseconds of lag from source to display. Of course the display adds its own lag depending on what you are using, but that is a constant.

However I am still in process on the most challenging part which is distributing the controllers to all the rooms. Pretty much every system has a compatible adapter to USB at this point. Some even have adapters that maintain the pin configurations over DB15 etc. I have been finding the most compatible adapters for each system and then running them into a mechanical 4 way switch (USB for now). One per controller (player 1 and 2). Was hoping to find an 8 or 16 port but haven't found one yet. I can then send that controller longer distance via CAT6 to my other rooms, also via a mechanical RJ45 switch. In each room I just have your typical pair of RJ45 data ports on the wall. I just plug my controller into the dongle that converts it from USB to RJ45 and plug it into the wall. So far I've noticed no latency between a local connection and the extended CAT6, which makes sense since it's point to point with no scaling/conversion happening. Or I can use a wireless USB controller and plug the receiver into the RJ45 port with the dongle in the local room. Then sit on the couch and play wireless while the actual system is 100ft away in another room upstairs. To be fair, I am using a USB controller of my choice and not the original system controller. But it's still a cool concept and if I am really looking for the authentic experience, that's what the local CRT is for. This was just to expand on the usefulness and be able to play them anywhere.

In the end I have a switch upstairs that I can select which room I am sending which controller. I was tired of dragging my nintendo switch base all over the house plugging it into various TVs because the bluetooth range stinks. That got me thinking, what if I can take my retro consoles in my office and get the controllers working everywhere. If I can do it with 8 and 16 bit consoles, then the newer USB consoles would be a piece of cake. So that's how it all started and the rabbit hole continues to deepen. The video part is easy and I can control all the switching with the push of a button, but the OSSC still needs to be powered on for any retro consoles, and all the USB and controller switching is manual for now. If I can get everything working perfectly there may or not be a market for an all-in-one solution, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. For now I'm stoked I can play my classic systems in my living room while the actual system sits upstairs. Or in the the bedroom or the theater. My wife and I like playing 2 players games and now we don't have to sit in my office/game room to do it. I guess when it's all done and I have just about every system connected (at least every one I care to own), I can make one of those crazy gameroom youtube videos lol.

Yeah, this is amazing. I'd never considered doing this; as you said, getting unified controllers across all rooms seem like a pipe dream. You should start your own thread with your progress updates, as this is a really great idea!

[NoAffinity]

On the vp30, theres 2 different locations for color space settings. Mine randomly will come up with an overly reddish purple image. Changing these settings to whatever it was when I last powered it off will correct it.

Input adjust control -> color space

Output setup -> color space

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[ShmupJunkie]

I’ve checked all the color space settings. I’ll have a second OSSC once it arrives to verify it’s not something with the unit as well. Just to rule that out.

Once I get some time I’ll try to start a thread on the controller extension project. I’ll eventually create a video on the entire setup and the controller portion will be part of that, but I’m also documenting each system and what I’m using. So far I’ve got it down to 2 inexpensive extender types. The older consoles need a passive point to point connection and are trickier, while the new stuff like a Nintendo switch just about anyone can figure out as it’s a more typical powered extender over cat5. The old consoles aren’t usb so the proper adapter combo is required to convert it for extension... and only certain combos I found work while others just don’t. The brook accessories ps2 to ps3/4 converters helped make it possible, although I doubt they intended that controller connection to be converted back to ps2 again on the far end. But thats the way to go as there are solid ps2 to just about any system converters out there. It’s also a solid controller that works with just about anything (I’ll eventually test a compatible fight stick too). And it does work with the right adapter to convert it back from usb to ps2.

[ShmupJunkie]

Wanted to give everyone an update that’s interested. Turns out I wasn’t crazy. I got a second unit yesterday and it worked perfect right out of the box. Initial one was bad. My new unit was one I’ve been waiting on that I ordered online. It turns out the first, unbeknownst to me when I ordered it, was a knock off. Didn’t realize it until later once I had an issue and started researching. So it’s going to go back and the official one works great. I didn’t even know there were knock offs until I found an article on that layer and realized mine was one.

Thanks to everyone who gave suggestions. Zero issue with the official unit.