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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 3:09 am 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
Posts: 42
I cant help asking now why is it that the shoulder buttons feel so different to the original ones in the Saturn controller. Was it really on purpose?

Thanks for addressing every question here. Hopefully the fixed parts are at least as durable as the original Sega parts were, but that, only time will tell.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 4:38 am 


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Bassa-Bassa wrote:
I cant help asking now why is it that the shoulder buttons feel so different to the original ones in the Saturn controller. Was it really on purpose?

Thanks for addressing every question here. Hopefully the fixed parts are at least as durable as the original Sega parts were, but that, only time will tell.


The microswitches originally used on the Saturn pads were not as readily available. The ones we did use are responsive and durable but also quieter. It was a slight trade-off but it does not impact gameplay.

We're happy to respond where we can. We appreciate the warm welcome. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 6:04 am 



Joined: 14 Feb 2005
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
Appreciate the responses.

Suggestion regarding the wireless versions: please prioritize response. The competing 8bitdo m30 Bluetooth pad has only one weakness in its lag time. If you can do significantly better, not only is this huge for gamers, it will give you a big advantage by comparison. It's frankly surprising they are still dropping the ball here as they've been criticized for it since debuting their original SNES-style pad.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 11:34 am 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
Posts: 42
It's natural the welcome is this warm: you're re-releasing the official controllers of a 25-years-old console which never sold well enough and at decent price. It's awesome you even bothered about the Saturn as a system. Since you're meeting your expectations and more types are coming, have you considered the re-release of this?:

Image


Seems they are absurdly expensive second-hand and being compatible with the Playstation 1 and 2, I'm sure you wouldn't take much risk with it. Would you make them even without Sony Computer Entertainment's approval?

Thanks again!


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 6:14 pm 


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bigbadboaz wrote:
Appreciate the responses.

Suggestion regarding the wireless versions: please prioritize response. The competing 8bitdo m30 Bluetooth pad has only one weakness in its lag time. If you can do significantly better, not only is this huge for gamers, it will give you a big advantage by comparison. It's frankly surprising they are still dropping the ball here as they've been criticized for it since debuting their original SNES-style pad.


We hear you - we are definitely doing our best to reduce input lag. ;)


Bassa-Bassa wrote:
Seems they are absurdly expensive second-hand and being compatible with the Playstation 1 and 2, I'm sure you wouldn't take much risk with it. Would you make them even without Sony Computer Entertainment's approval?

Thanks again!


It's not just Sony we would have to check with but also SEGA. However, we take everything into consideration because you never know. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 4:06 pm 


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Retro-Bit, I wonder why the decision was made to alter the D-pad so that all four directions can be pushed by pressing in the middle? This is not the case with the original controller, and while it's not a problem for me at all, I wonder if it wouldn't be for some?


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 8:11 pm 


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Konsolkongen wrote:
Retro-Bit, I wonder why the decision was made to alter the D-pad so that all four directions can be pushed by pressing in the middle? This is not the case with the original controller, and while it's not a problem for me at all, I wonder if it wouldn't be for some?


It wasn't something we were aware of as being an issue as there aren't game mechanics that require the DPad to be pressed down like that regularly. We do stress test for multiple inputs pressed down to ensure there aren't any issues with the hardware and inputs. Additionally, this was based off SEGA's designs and we have various SEGA original controllers where this is also possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 10:22 pm 


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This is definitely the case for my SLS Saturn USB controller, but I don't think I have an original one that does this. Neither does my JAP MD 6 button controller. Like you say it hardly matters, I was just being curious :)


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 6:56 am 


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One of my official JP gray Saturn controllers and the d-pad on the official US 3D controller press down in the middle.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:43 am 



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Yeah, I didn't think this was a particular issue with the Sega dpads. Attention has been called to it recently with certain inaccurate cross-style pads, but I don't think it leads to many false inputs when there's an actual pivot mechanism in the center.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 10:18 am 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
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Retro-Bit wrote:
It is difficult to tell without opening up the controller and testing the specific part. We do not recommend opening up your controllers as you could also damage other parts. However, we are honoring any DPad or flawed performance issues with replacements. If you feel it is dropping inputs or isn't responsive, please e-mail us your issue at info@retro-bit.com. :)


Hi, Retro-Bit,

Sent an e-mail a couple of days ago. Is it normal that I haven't received an answer yet or may it have to do with your spam filter?


Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 4:08 pm 


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Bassa-Bassa wrote:
Retro-Bit wrote:
It is difficult to tell without opening up the controller and testing the specific part. We do not recommend opening up your controllers as you could also damage other parts. However, we are honoring any DPad or flawed performance issues with replacements. If you feel it is dropping inputs or isn't responsive, please e-mail us your issue at info@retro-bit.com. :)


Hi, Retro-Bit,

Sent an e-mail a couple of days ago. Is it normal that I haven't received an answer yet or may it have to do with your spam filter?


Thanks.


Heya,

I will check with our returns team. I know they've been re-organizing a few things so I'll see if there are any open tickets. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 12:06 am 


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So I got my 2 Genesis controllers yesterday, and gave them a good workout. Most notably I played Street Fighter II Champion Edition.

One (black) is realy really great and the other (blue), feels quite a lot looser and unresponsive. which makes me think that 2nd one might be a lemon(this stuff can happen with even the best product line/company. so no big deal. I just hope I can get an exchange for it).

The black one honestly feels amazing (I know I should watch my choice of words so as to give a good objective review, but I had so much fun last night and was kind of flipping out at having a pad this good that is brand new). The d-pad reminds me of the ones in my cherished JP Saturn pads'. It really rocks around in a tight, responsive way and feels good. It travels just the right distance, it offers just the right resistance(very important) and it springs back to center in record time. without overshooting and without ever feeling loose/wiggling about or feeling dead. It is a very controlled motion, and feedback too. The assembly also moves a bit(just the right amount)in the opposite direction of the arrow you press, which is what you want for it to feel good (whole d-pad moves right when you press left arrow, and back left as you de-press, with the result that the d-pad kinda stays in place, even if the edge you press dips down. Again, just like my Saturn pad). It just feels sooooo good to use, sorry for the lack of technical jargon haha. Extremely tight and is a joy to handle

The buttons also feel nice to me, they have just the right amount of travel, and a bit of clicky feel, especially on de-press. certainly good enough for me and they pass the test for sure.



Now on my blue pad things are not the same... first the d-pad. it feels a bit wiggly and a lot less responsive. It doesn't really do the thing I described last with the black one (whole pad moving a bit in opposite direction of arrow you press). which means it moves away from the pivot a lot more(that doesn't feel right), in essence : it doesn't rock around as well. It's also slower to spring back to center. It also wiggles around a bit, if I put my thumb in the center I can move the pad around while keeping it flat, which the black one doesn't do. Also when I do a QCF motion, instead of tilting right, down and right, the d-pad stays tilted to the right the whole time. certainly lacks responsiveness compared to the black pad.

The buttons on blue pad also are a downgrade. They have a longer travel and sit higher on the pad and don't feel as good, with a loose clicky feel.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 10:05 am 


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I should be getting both colored pads either today or tomorrow, so I can check if this is a common problem with the blue one. Also have the USB version (black) to compare against :)


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:00 pm 


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Konsolkongen wrote:
I should be getting both colored pads either today or tomorrow, so I can check if this is a common problem with the blue one. Also have the USB version (black) to compare against :)

Awesome. Looking forward to your report


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:13 pm 


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Got mine. Haven’t played with either yet, but I get what you are saying. The black one seems better for the reasons you mention above :/

Really like that blue color though :)

One slight thing that puts me off with these Mega Drive controllers is that the letter “Z” is written slightly thicker than the other buttons. Guess their mold was a bit off and this was corrected manually. Also the small bumps on the B and Y buttons are no where near as pronounced as I remember them. Certainly not compared to my JAP controller. I guess they are molded from a very worn controller? :)

EDIT: Is the Z button really supposed to sit so low on the original controller? On the JAP it’s raised much higher and feels slightly nicer to press because of this :)


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:24 pm 


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I'll give the blue one more of a try. It seemed to be nice and responsive and on par with the black one from what I tried so far. I did read an Amazon review where someone had a similar experience with a loose d-pad on a black controller, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 7:39 pm 


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The Blue one is noticeably worse than the black one. Played for a while with the blue one and the buttons are stiff. Big difference after switching to the black one.

Not that the Blue one is terrible by any means. But the difference is big enough that it bothers me.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:41 pm 


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Konsolkongen wrote:
The Blue one is noticeably worse than the black one. Played for a while with the blue one and the buttons are stiff. Big difference after switching to the black one.

Not that the Blue one is terrible by any means. But the difference is big enough that it bothers me.


Not disagreeing with you, just saying that maybe not all of the blue pads are looser and maybe some black pads are looser too. The latter is going by a single amazon review, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 11:25 pm 


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Thanks for your input (pun intended) Konsolkongen!

BrianC wrote:
Not disagreeing with you, just saying that maybe not all of the blue pads are looser and maybe some black pads are looser too. The latter is going by a single amazon review, though.

This is true though, we don't know for sure if all of them are like this. Too small a sample size


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:08 am 



Joined: 14 Feb 2005
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It does seem to be becoming clear that there's quite a bit of manufacturing variance, and that's disheartening.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 11:32 am 


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I just swapped some parts between the blue and black controller, and can conclude that the problem with the buttons on the blue one was caused by the rubber pads being much stiffer than the black ones. Once swapped the buttons on the blue controller feel just as nice as they did on the black one.

The D-pad rubber pad is also stiffer but after swapping the blue's dpad still doesn't feel _exactly_ as nice as the black ones did. So I'll try swapping the actual D-pad later.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 11:33 am 



Joined: 17 Jan 2017
Posts: 107
Hopefully Retrobit will make a good 2.4GHz wireless DualShock 1 & 2 combi. There are some cheap options out there but always have terrible analog sticks.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 9:11 pm 


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bigbadboaz wrote:
It does seem to be becoming clear that there's quite a bit of manufacturing variance, and that's disheartening.


Yeah, I mean, variances can happen in controllers over time. Like I think earlier XBO controllers had issues with materials in the shoulder buttons.

But having such wide variance when the controller first launches seems pretty bad. Wish Sega had put up the necessary cash to conduct proper QC.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 10:06 pm 


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To be fair, this (the stiffness in the rubber pads) also varies in the original controllers I own. I have an original transparent Saturn controller where the Y-button feels worse than the others.

I swapped parts with my Mega Drive USB controller and now both of the Mega Drive compatible controllers are pretty good. No matter which D-pad I swapped with, it still feels a little bit different on the blue controller, but during gameplay it didn’t really matter.

So the USB controller is now a bit worse, but it’s the one I expect to use the least:)


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 5:17 am 



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That is quite true, there was LARGE variance in Sega's own controllers as well.

But it wasn't acceptable back then either. With the clear effort RB have put in to raise quality with this line, I was definitely hoping for better uniformity.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 3:03 pm 


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It's true that there's some quality variation even in the original controller. Also I want to stress that the blue controller I have is not unuseable by any mean. But the other one feels substantially nicer and is a bit more responsive and well, let's say that I'm gonna use the good one with the nice d-pad pivot 100% of the time and I'll never use the blue one...


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 3:35 pm 


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If you can find the time, maybe swap the pads between the two and see if the Blue one performs like you’d expect :)

I’m glad I got parts swapped around so that the blue one is much better, because I love the color :)


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 8:37 pm 



Joined: 22 Oct 2018
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I bought two six-button controllers for my MD and I'm really happy with one of them, the second is still sealed in the box but after reading some of the feedback I'm going to unbox it and put it through its paces.

I love the 8bitdo m30 2.4ghz but you cannot use two of them at the same time, one of them inevitably stops registering inputs, 8bitdo were nice enough to replace what I thought was a faulty controller but I have the same issue. Here's hoping RB's efforts let you have two wireless controllers on the go.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 3:31 am 



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Anybody confirmed yet whether the Retro-Bit Saturn PCBs will swap cleanly into the earlier SLS shells?


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