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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:36 pm 



Joined: 03 Jul 2014
Posts: 30
Are you able to share if the twin stick Saturn controllers works like a 3D controller and/or a twin stick controller (like for Virtua-On)? It looks like one of those could be an end-all solution for Saturn. Lets you get a decent 3D pad experience for games with analogue controls as well as twin sticks for the few games that support those. Would be amazing, even if you needed to flip a switch.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:10 pm 


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PearlJammzz wrote:
Are you able to share if the twin stick Saturn controllers works like a 3D controller and/or a twin stick controller (like for Virtua-On)? It looks like one of those could be an end-all solution for Saturn. Lets you get a decent 3D pad experience for games with analogue controls as well as twin sticks for the few games that support those. Would be amazing, even if you needed to flip a switch.


Unfortunately, we don't have further information to share. Once we have confirmed and approved specs and features to share, we won't be keeping quiet about it. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:23 pm 


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How can you tell if the (saturn) controller is in X-input mode? I can't seem to tell in any way - both? work in Steam, neither? work with Epic Launcher. Can't get it to work at all with Shovel Knight, either.

Most sources say hold Start for 5 seconds. The included instructions say Start + B for 5 seconds. Neither seem to do anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:42 am 


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Einzelherz wrote:
How can you tell if the (saturn) controller is in X-input mode? I can't seem to tell in any way - both? work in Steam, neither? work with Epic Launcher. Can't get it to work at all with Shovel Knight, either.

Most sources say hold Start for 5 seconds. The included instructions say Start + B for 5 seconds. Neither seem to do anything.


If you are on PC, the best way is to close Steam and open the "Set Up USB Gamepad" function (or right click on the connected device). If you unplug it and plug it back in, it should say "USB Gamepad" and this means it is in D-Input mode. Then, hold down Start (if it is the Switch compatible one, Start + B) until you hear a disconnect/reconnect sound. It should then be listed as a SEGA Controller (or Xbox 360 Controller) which would mean it is now in X-Input mode. Once that is done, fire up Steam and you should be able to map it.

We also heard from some users that sometimes the controller will show up in Steam as a hidden device. Go into Controller Settings on Steam and check the bottom of the screen to see if it says Unhide Device and click it. Your controller should show up now. Let us know if this doesn't work out.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:57 am 


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Retro-Bit wrote:
RIP-Felix wrote:
Which Dreamcast controllers were you referring to, the standard wired/USB for PC, or the wireless ones teased at CES 2018? Corded is fine and all, but what I really want to know is if the Bluetooth DC controllers are actually going to be a thing or not? Any news on that front?


Currently, the original port Dreamcast controller we showed off at E3 and Gamescom is furthest along. We can't share any other information on other projects at this time. We have many plans for the Dreamcast in 2020. We are putting more emphasis on quality on our products going forward as well as maintaining SEGA's support. :)

I have to say that I was skeptical it would get very far considering how demanding the Maple Bus protocol is. I wouldn't be surprised to hear it was abandoned, though I'd be disappointed. But there's no point waiting around for product you're not working on. Could you at least tell us if it's still active? I'd like to to have a reason to keep my hopes up. A year of silence has that empty promise feel to it. Some reassurance would be good medicine.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:02 pm 


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Retro-Bit wrote:
Einzelherz wrote:
How can you tell if the (saturn) controller is in X-input mode? I can't seem to tell in any way - both? work in Steam, neither? work with Epic Launcher. Can't get it to work at all with Shovel Knight, either.

Most sources say hold Start for 5 seconds. The included instructions say Start + B for 5 seconds. Neither seem to do anything.


If you are on PC, the best way is to close Steam and open the "Set Up USB Gamepad" function (or right click on the connected device). If you unplug it and plug it back in, it should say "USB Gamepad" and this means it is in D-Input mode. Then, hold down Start (if it is the Switch compatible one, Start + B) until you hear a disconnect/reconnect sound. It should then be listed as a SEGA Controller (or Xbox 360 Controller) which would mean it is now in X-Input mode. Once that is done, fire up Steam and you should be able to map it.

We also heard from some users that sometimes the controller will show up in Steam as a hidden device. Go into Controller Settings on Steam and check the bottom of the screen to see if it says Unhide Device and click it. Your controller should show up now. Let us know if this doesn't work out.


I tested it on three more PCs at home and it worked fine for them so likely I have a driver interference problem from all the other controller things I've done over the years. Glad to know the controller works fine though!


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:46 pm 


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RIP-Felix wrote:
Retro-Bit wrote:
RIP-Felix wrote:
Which Dreamcast controllers were you referring to, the standard wired/USB for PC, or the wireless ones teased at CES 2018? Corded is fine and all, but what I really want to know is if the Bluetooth DC controllers are actually going to be a thing or not? Any news on that front?


Currently, the original port Dreamcast controller we showed off at E3 and Gamescom is furthest along. We can't share any other information on other projects at this time. We have many plans for the Dreamcast in 2020. We are putting more emphasis on quality on our products going forward as well as maintaining SEGA's support. :)

I have to say that I was skeptical it would get very far considering how demanding the Maple Bus protocol is. I wouldn't be surprised to hear it was abandoned, though I'd be disappointed. But there's no point waiting around for product you're not working on. Could you at least tell us if it's still active? I'd like to to have a reason to keep my hopes up. A year of silence has that empty promise feel to it. Some reassurance would be good medicine.


We never said it was abandoned! We have a very long list of products we want to produce. In the past, we may have had most of these being developed simultaneously but the end result was not a quality product. We're focusing our efforts to ensure the quality is there at the end. Original port wired for Dreamcast is actively being worked on. Additional ports and options are on the table but we would need to finalize the original port first. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:49 pm 


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@Retro-Bit

I've spent some time trying to uninstall drivers and anything I can think of that might interact with the controller when it's trying to switch over to X-input and so far I've come up with nothing. Is there a specific API or DLL or whatever (I really have no clue) that the controller is calling on when it switches over? That might at least point me to where the problem might lie.

Thanks!

edit: update. After uninstalling lots of crap and cleaning old drivers, on two ports on my motherboard it will now show up as "USB Gamepad" and work correctly. On Tue other four, it always shows up as "Pro Controller" and won't switch into X-input. I'm glad it's partly working but I have no idea why it's behaving in two different ways.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:34 am 


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Retro-Bit wrote:
...Original port wired for Dreamcast is actively being worked on. Additional ports and options are on the table but we would need to finalize the original port first. :)

So at least it hasn't been officially canceled. That's good news!

Nothing to see here, just some carefully restrained venting:

However, figuratively "on the table" this year is a step back from literally "on the table" last year at CES (a cool looking box BTW).
Spoiler: show
Image
Forgive me for taking the gloves off, but it's one year later and we're (the customer) no closer to the much more technically challenging Bluetooth version. You may be, but you haven't updated us on the progress. You should see how teasing a box at a public trade conference might give the impression you were further along. I take it many were wondering if you had the gall to show up with an empty box and no proof of concept behind it. I don't know how these conferences work, if like kickstarter they require you to have a working prototype before you can use their platform, or like indigogo which doesn't. I just assumed these annual conferences were for showing off near future products in the pipe-line, not pipe-dream (I couldn't resist, but I'm not sorry. You may want to follow through, but it doesn't sound like you're confident either way. And as long as you're not sure, you shouldn't make empty boxes...err...promises).

I want you to meet the highest quality standards too, and am ready to throw my money in that direction if it comes to fruition.

AND NOW FOR THE UNRESTRAINED VENTING:
Spoiler: show
I've already waited 20 years for a wireless DC controller and teasing what looks like a production ready box at an annual trade show is...well...
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:23 am 


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You could always make your own, Felix, instead of spending so much energy "venting".


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:52 pm 


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Allow us to address directly certain things so we aren't making assumptions.

RIP-Felix wrote:
Forgive me for taking the gloves off, but it's one year later and we're (the customer) no closer to the much more technically challenging Bluetooth version. You may be, but you haven't updated us on the progress. You should see how teasing a box at a public trade conference might give the impression you were further along. I take it many were wondering if you had the gall to show up with an empty box and no proof of concept behind it. I don't know how these conferences work, if like kickstarter they require you to have a working prototype before you can use their platform, or like indigogo which doesn't. I just assumed these annual conferences were for showing off near future products in the pipe-line, not pipe-dream (I couldn't resist, but I'm not sorry.


Your frustration is understandable and it is shared by us as well. If you do not know what CES is then allow us to explain - the whole show is a chance for companies and startups to pitch new ideas, new prototypes, and gauge interest in what they have in store. We are not a big company and so we can't take big risks. It's because of us having to push back many times in the past that we are now currently working on a system to show people where we are in the process on our website (which will get a facelift).

RIP-Felix wrote:
You may want to follow through, but it doesn't sound like you're confident either way. And as long as you're not sure, you shouldn't make empty boxes...err...promises.


We are working harder to be more transparent. However, we ask for people to understand that we are working with licenses and there are restrictions on what we can and cannot do. Just because we have a working prototype for something doesn't mean we are allowed to show it off without approval. Confidence has nothing to do with it. We will do better.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:06 pm 


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Retro-Bit>

Going a bit off topic here, but now that we have a direct line of communication I thought I would ask.

Are you dead set on the cover design for your upcoming Mega Drive Reproductions?

https://twitter.com/retrobitgaming/stat ... 47?lang=da

I don't mind the black checkerboard boxart at all, in fact I think it's great that these are clearly distinguishable from the original releases, but I sure wish these boxes had the original Mega Drive and/or Genesis logos.

Watermelon Games did this with their releases of Pier Solar and I think it looks great, and fits really nicely alongside original boxes. First they did separate PAL, US and JAP styles covers, and later they did a combined Mega Drive + Genesis release. I think both look great, and these logos make all the difference IMO.

Mega Drive style boxart:
Image

Combined release:
Image

I realise that you cannot use a Sega logo, for obvious reason, but I hope you can do the console logos so these boxes will look more authentic.

Thank you for making these officially licensed repros btw. I hate that piracy shit that's overflowing eBay these days, but I'm all for officially licensed re-releases :)


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:08 pm 


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Konsolkongen wrote:
Retro-Bit>

Going a bit off topic here, but now that we have a direct line of communication I thought I would ask.

Are you dead set on the cover design for your upcoming Mega Drive Reproductions?


For the upcoming SEGA re-releases (Toaplan games and MM Wily Wars), we have not finalized the design of the boxes just yet. Currently, we are working with approved artwork for the mastering phase. We are also looking at reversible box art, at least for Mega Man The Wily Wars. We will have more information on those releases later this year. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:40 pm 


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Kewl! Looking forward to that :)


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:27 am 


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Just an update on my sometimes working x-input issue, should anyone in the future have the same one - it won't work for me using a USB 3.0 port. I've chalked this up to my computer, a Sandy Bridge CPU, not having native 3.0 (iirc it has an on board 3rd party controller. All of the USB 2.0 ports work fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:31 am 


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Retro-Bit wrote:
Allow us to address directly certain things so we aren't making assumptions.
RIP-Felix wrote:
You may want to follow through, but it doesn't sound like you're confident either way. And as long as you're not sure, you shouldn't make empty boxes...err...promises.


We are working harder to be more transparent. However, we ask for people to understand that we are working with licenses and there are restrictions on what we can and cannot do. Just because we have a working prototype for something doesn't mean we are allowed to show it off without approval. Confidence has nothing to do with it. We will do better.

That's the way you answer a question. Thank you for being more strait forward about this. In general (I'm not talking about Retro-bit specifically), It just erks me when we get another statement about how 'we're working hard to meet our goals and commitments'. No one is so stupid they don't know when their question wasn't answered. Equivocations are insulting and I get tired of them.

What you said about the realities of working under licensing actually makes sense. You sound like a real person trying to do your best job with other people controlling the fate of the project. In reality you can't know for sure if we (the consumer) will see a licensed product until you have a finalized deal with SEGA in hand. Until then, it makes sense they will impose restrictions. That's what I mean by you "don't sound confident". It's more than confidence, arrogant even, to assume SEGA will give the go ahead before you've submitted them a rock solid prototype for review. So I take it you must be further along then you let on if you really mean "confidence has nothing to do with it".

Probably you were speaking generally, but if you do have a working prototype, that's the kind of encouraging update I was fishing for to begin with;). So the question is do you have a prototype or not? If you can't confirm, I get it. I'd just like to know if that's because SEGA won't let you or because you don't even have a prototype yet. The latter would mean I shouldn't get my hopes up. The former would be awesome news!


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:28 pm 



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I love the fact they are doing reproductions for games not available in the US such as Megaman Wily Wars, but I hope the internals are done right with proper voltages, unlike say the iam8bit snes repros that had crap inside that the original hardware were not likely to like (at least the SF2 one was made by infiniteneslives creator), they even had to warn people the system could be set on fire if run in original hardware lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:03 pm 


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<EDIT> Ignore, controller mixup


Last edited by Link83 on Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:27 pm 


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RIP-Felix wrote:
Probably you were speaking generally, but if you do have a working prototype, that's the kind of encouraging update I was fishing for to begin with;). So the question is do you have a prototype or not? If you can't confirm, I get it. I'd just like to know if that's because SEGA won't let you or because you don't even have a prototype yet. The latter would mean I shouldn't get my hopes up. The former would be awesome news!


I was speaking in general. Once we have the green light, we will happily share details!

Also, I don't want to villainize SEGA. They are an amazing partner and with so many releases, we are happy that they continue to support us.

Taiyaki wrote:
I love the fact they are doing reproductions for games not available in the US such as Megaman Wily Wars, but I hope the internals are done right with proper voltages, unlike say the iam8bit snes repros that had crap inside that the original hardware were not likely to like (at least the SF2 one was made by infiniteneslives creator), they even had to warn people the system could be set on fire if run in original hardware lol.


I'm not much of a technical person when it comes to the parts beyond the PCBs but I do know our NES releases have used 5-volt chips which, I am told, are the ideal ones. I'm sure our team will make sure no consoles will catch fire with our upcoming releases.

Link83 wrote:
How many different Retro-Bit D-Pad designs have their been? and which version is being used in current models?

What I don't understand is why Retro-Bit keep changing/tweaking the design? The tried and tested original Sega design has been used for 25 years now, so why not just copy the original Sega design and nylon-type material from the originals?


Whoa there. First of all, that's a Genesis DPad actuator. That is much different from the Saturn DPad actuator. Our initial flaw with the Saturn actuator wasn't the design, it was the plastic we used. We have used the same designs/molds where applicable and used updated designs where needed (8-button Genesis/MD, batteries for wireless, etc).

There is one design for the Saturn DPad actuator and one for Genesis/Mega Drive.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:45 pm 


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Retro-Bit wrote:
Whoa there. First of all, that's a Genesis DPad actuator. That is much different from the Saturn DPad actuator. Our initial flaw with the Saturn actuator wasn't the design, it was the plastic we used. We have used the same designs/molds where applicable and used updated designs where needed (8-button Genesis/MD, batteries for wireless, etc).

There is one design for the Saturn DPad actuator and one for Genesis/Mega Drive.

Doh! Apologies, my mistake :oops: I'll delete my post to avoid any further confusion.

...Although I do find it a little odd that the actuator piece would break in exactly the same place on two completely different actuator designs :? Do you know if the strength/type of plastic used has been changed for current production runs?

btw I really appreciate your direct communication with the gaming community - not many companies are as open with the fans as Retro-Bit, and I feel thats largely down to yourself reaching out on forums/reddit/twitter - so thank you :)


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:22 pm 


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Link83 wrote:
Retro-Bit wrote:
Whoa there. First of all, that's a Genesis DPad actuator. That is much different from the Saturn DPad actuator. Our initial flaw with the Saturn actuator wasn't the design, it was the plastic we used. We have used the same designs/molds where applicable and used updated designs where needed (8-button Genesis/MD, batteries for wireless, etc).

There is one design for the Saturn DPad actuator and one for Genesis/Mega Drive.

Doh! Apologies, my mistake :oops: I'll delete my post to avoid any further confusion.

...Although I do find it a little odd that the actuator piece would break in exactly the same place on two completely different actuator designs :? Do you know if the strength/type of plastic used has been changed for current production runs?

btw I really appreciate your direct communication with the gaming community - not many companies are as open with the fans as Retro-Bit, and I feel thats largely down to yourself reaching out on forums/reddit/twitter - so thank you :)


Not a problem! We have not received many issues regarding the Genesis/MD pads. However, with mass production, there are bound to be failures/defects. This is something we do our best to minimize. The plastic strength on the Genesis/MD controllers has not been an issue at all. Let us not draw conclusions from one user's social post, especially one that is still being troubleshot by our team. :)

We appreciate the feedback!

EDIT: Apologies for not addressing your plastic question, as stated previously with the Saturn actuator issue, we updated the plastic used on those pieces to be sturdier and to bend rather than crack under stress. Since the changes, the issue has not come up with the Model 2 versions which strictly use these updated pieces.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:18 pm 



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So, regarding the 2.4s: I may be brain cramping but did they initially appear on Castlemania at $29.99 for preorder before jumping to the $34.99 they're at now?

8bitdo have now announced the 2.4g m30 at $24.99 (where they seem to price all their 2.4s). I know you are including more with your 2.4g pads, but we'd all love to see them come in closer to your competition, pricewise. 8bitdo - and the m30 in particular - have earned quite a reputation in this niche already.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:59 pm 


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bigbadboaz wrote:
So, regarding the 2.4s: I may be brain cramping but did they initially appear on Castlemania at $29.99 for preorder before jumping to the $34.99 they're at now?

8bitdo have now announced the 2.4g m30 at $24.99 (where they seem to price all their 2.4s). I know you are including more with your 2.4g pads, but we'd all love to see them come in closer to your competition, pricewise. 8bitdo - and the m30 in particular - have earned quite a reputation in this niche already.


Nope, the 2.4 GHz Wireless controllers have always been priced at $34.99 as it includes a special storage case for the controller, manual, charge cable, and two receivers. We are aware of our competitor's pricing and we felt that given the licensed product along with the packaged deal, this was fairly priced.

You may have mistaken it for the Bluetooth controllers which are listed at $29.99. Or perhaps there was a site issue on Castlemania Games' webpage.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:50 am 


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Why are we stuck with weirdo color choices for the 2.4 GHz Saturn controllers?

A (non transparent) black, white or (my personal favorite) grey would have been nice.
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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:02 am 



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Strider77 wrote:
Why are we stuck with weirdo color choices for the 2.4 GHz Saturn controllers?

A (non transparent) black, white or (my personal favorite) grey would have been nice.
You’re not alone. Makes absolutely no sense to release black in Bluetooth version only. The vast majority of US Saturn consoles are black. We should have a black 2.4ghz option. Some of us are holding off until (and if) that happens. Such a shame


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:27 pm 


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mario64 wrote:
Strider77 wrote:
Why are we stuck with weirdo color choices for the 2.4 GHz Saturn controllers?

A (non transparent) black, white or (my personal favorite) grey would have been nice.
You’re not alone. Makes absolutely no sense to release black in Bluetooth version only. The vast majority of US Saturn consoles are black. We should have a black 2.4ghz option. Some of us are holding off until (and if) that happens. Such a shame


As we explained before, the Black Saturn controllers were the least popular and we had a lot of people who preferred the clear blue. Trust us, we're aware of the console color matching! We will revisit further color options (especially black) post-launch. Everyone's input has been noted on this. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:56 pm 


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Least popular among who? And if that's the case why is there a standard black controller for bluetooth?
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Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:25 pm 



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Strider77 wrote:
Least popular among who? And if that's the case why is there a standard black controller for bluetooth?


My guess is sales numbers. What else would they have to go off of?

More colors are always awesome. Even crazy colors like red, bronze, purple, etc. would be fun in time.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:39 pm 


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Strider77 wrote:
Least popular among who? And if that's the case why is there a standard black controller for bluetooth?


Amongst all of our customers worldwide! The Genesis/MD Clear Blue and Saturn Slate Grey were the most popular by far. For the 6-Button Genesis/MD USB, we focused on Black at first but even when we made the Clear Blue available, those quickly sold out. The Bluetooth controllers were in development before our prior releases so they kept the same colors as the original releases. With the 2.4 controllers, we had an opportunity to experiment which is why we have a Shadow for Genesis and Clear Blue for Saturn. :)

We notice these color trends on all our releases. With our Tribute64 controllers, we had forest green, ocean blue, and red. By far the most popular and difficult to keep in stock was the ocean blue.


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 Post subject: Re: Retro-bit's Sega controllers
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:24 am 


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@Retro-bit

Is there a way to change the default setup on the Switch compatible Saturn controllers when used on the switch? It seems that the Saturn D-pad only wants to behave like the Switch Pro left analog stick. I hoped it could be the dpad instead.


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