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 Post subject: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:53 pm 


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Hi guys.
I am going to invest in a modded PS1 to play light gun games (+ a bit of R-type Delta & SOTN) on my PVMs through an Extron switcher.

I've looked into the cheapest way to do it. Modded PS1's are around £50-£70 in the UK on ebay. I really dont want to have to fork out another £33 just for a CSYNC cable from retro cables on top of the console and the guncon guns just to play a handfull of games.. This is the cable:
https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/SON ... T-GUN-PORT

Some of the modded PS1s on ebay actually come with not just a region / burned CD chip, but also a full CSYNC mod from the machine itself. So... What I am thinking is that if I get one of these based on the original models that comes with the RCA jack, I could just get a cheaper RGB scart cable and be good to go (I already have a scart to RGBS breakout cable).
This video shows how the old RCA jack models allow you to use RGB and get sync from RCA jack for light gun games:
https://youtu.be/f7fCTHu99bk?t=1199

Does anyone see any issue with this plan? Would I be better just forking out for one of the retro gaming cables CSYNC / guncon port cables and getting a newer model modded PS1?
Thanks
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Last edited by Crayfish on Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1 for light guns on PVMs / Ex
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:25 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1146
Crayfish wrote:
So... What I am thinking is that if I get one of these based on the original models that comes with the RCA jack, I could just get a cheaper RGB scart cable and be good to go (I already have a scart to RGBS breakout cable).

Should work fine, although I believe the CD drives in those very early units would die early deaths due to their proximity to the PSU; later models have their CD drives oriented away from the PSU. Not a problem if you're only really using it for a handful of light gun games.

Personally, I'd rather (and I did) buy one of those later models (SCPH-5501) and an RGB SCART cable with the sync breakout (From Retro-Access), but you could very well just buy one of those PS1 AV breakouts that is also mentioned in that MLiG video you linked. They're very cheap.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1 for light guns on PVMs / Ex
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:48 pm 


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Thanks for the reply.
Yeah even though it would work out more expensive, it may still be safer to get newer model console and get the lead as the lead should last forever, but the console could die..
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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1 for light guns on PVMs / Ex
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:05 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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Crayfish wrote:
Thanks for the reply.
Yeah even though it would work out more expensive, it may still be safer to get newer model console and get the lead as the lead should last forever, but the console could die..

The console itself should last a good, long while; what you need to watch for is the death of the CD drive. Moving parts wear, and the lasers wear out. I think you can currently still get new-old-stock CD drives, which work great, but will also eventually die. If you're a huge fan of the PS1 and expect to use it for a long time, best to look into a PSIO.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1 for light guns on PVMs / Ex
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:15 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 542
I found it cheaper and better to buy a PS2 for PS1 (and PS2) light gun games.

There is only a handful of PS1 light gun games that are still worth playing and I was able to buy all of them (original) used for way less than a modded PS1.

Also, the PS2 drive is noticabely faster. I barely even notice loading times in Time Crisis 1.

If you know how to solder, PS2 mod chips that allow you to run PS1 "backups" are very cheap these days too.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1 for light guns on PVMs / Ex
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:47 pm 


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Classicgamer wrote:
I found it cheaper and better to buy a PS2 for PS1 (and PS2) light gun games.

There is only a handful of PS1 light gun games that are still worth playing and I was able to buy all of them (original) used for way less than a modded PS1.

Also, the PS2 drive is noticabely faster. I barely even notice loading times in Time Crisis 1.

If you know how to solder, PS2 mod chips that allow you to run PS1 "backups" are very cheap these days too.

I do actually love the look of the PS2, it has some of its own games I like also and they are newer and should be more reliable than a PS1. My questions are tho:
1.) Can I use the PS1 Guncons with the PS2 for PS1 light gun games no problem?
2.) Presumably the newer PS2 slim models would be more reliable in the long run, but is there any difference in there PS1 capability. Did the slim models still include the PS1 hardware? Maybe Im thinking of the later PS3's that moved to emulation for backwards compat?
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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:07 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 542
You can definately use a Guncon 1 on the PS2 to play PS1 light gun games. In fact, it's the only way. The GC2 does not work on GC1 games.

You can even use a Guncon 1 on some PS2 light gun games (but some are GC2 only).

I recommend a PS2 fat because it is very easy to soft mod and run games from a hard drive. A hard drive is clearly going to be faster and more reliable over the long-term. With the slim, you are stuck with discs.

You'd still have to use the DVD drive for PS1 games but it's not going to be any less reliable than using an even older PS1 cd drive. Plus, the PS2 drive loads games faster. You hardly notice loading after the initial pre-game load.

My guess is that once you try the PS2 light gun games, the only PS1 light gun game you'll ever want to play is TC1. Most PS1 3d games look and feel very dated these days. PS2 games still look great imo, if you use the right display.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:50 pm 


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Classicgamer wrote:
You can definately use a Guncon 1 on the PS2 to play PS1 light gun games. In fact, it's the only way. The GC2 does not work on GC1 games.

You can even use a Guncon 1 on some PS2 light gun games (but some are GC2 only).

I recommend a PS2 fat because it is very easy to soft mod and run games from a hard drive. A hard drive is clearly going to be faster and more reliable over the long-term. With the slim, you are stuck with discs.

You'd still have to use the DVD drive for PS1 games but it's not going to be any less reliable than using an even older PS1 cd drive. Plus, the PS2 drive loads games faster. You hardly notice loading after the initial pre-game load.

My guess is that once you try the PS2 light gun games, the only PS1 light gun game you'll ever want to play is TC1. Most PS1 3d games look and feel very dated these days. PS2 games still look great imo, if you use the right display.

Thanks for the info. It is really mainly just to play the Point Blank games, I don't care about the more advanced 3d on the PS2 light gun games, but there are other PS2 games I like.
I'm going to get a modded PS2 so I can play 60Hz region back up discs I can burn myself, but I can also use a hard drive you say? I'l look into that
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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:02 pm 


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I'm a sucker for area 51 myself, it's not guncon though it's justifier


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:07 pm 


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Crayfish wrote:
Hi guys.
I am going to invest in a modded PS1 to play light gun games (+ a bit of R-type Delta & SOTN) on my PVMs through an Extron switcher.


If you're using an Extron switch it'll require csync, so you can either:
1.) get a cable that strips csync from composite video (easiest, but most expensive)
2.) Mod the system to cut the composite video trace and replace it with csync (mod varies by PS1 (and PS2?) revision)
3.) Same as #2, except just using a sync stripper internally in the system. Only reason I can see to do this is if the console revision doesn't have a native csync signal available to tap, or is extremely difficult to do so.

Now once you've got csync and can use your Extron switch then it should be extremely easy. I assume your Extron switch has multiple outputs. Use one output to go to your TV/whatever, and use a 2nd output to send the csync signal to the Guncon. The Guncon can use composite video, csync, or component video (the green plug). It dosen't need to return the signal, it's just made as a passthrough since that's how most people would've been using it with composite video.

This is how I've always done it with my Guncon 2 on PS2. You just probably need a RCA extension cable, or regular RCA cable and a coupler if your Extron switch and PS1/PS2 aren't super close together. I just have one output on my Extron switch permanently connected to some short extension cables to go around the side of it to be easily accessible from the front to plug in displays to test or Guncons :P


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:19 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 542
Yes, if you buy a free mcboot card off eBay then you can use the PS2 fat network adapter to connect a hard drive.

A free mcboot card will also let you play patched ps2 back-ups from disc (with no hard mods) but you'd have to chip it to play PS1 backups.

PS2 mod chips are relatively cheap but time consuming to install. Unless there is a ton of PS1 games you want to play, my advice would be to buy the cheapest working PS2 you can find on eBay and a free mcboot card. Then buy the few worthy PS1 games as originals.

Don't try to buy a ready modded PS2 because people charge way more without reason. I paid $25 for my fat PS2 and $7 for a free mcboot card.

On the hard drive, I suggest buying one of the 3rd party Sata adapters so you can use a modern hard drive with lots of storage. With the official Sony one, you'd be stuck with old and slow IDE hard drives. With sata you can buy a multi-terabyte hard drive to fit lots of multi gig DVD games.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:37 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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Classicgamer wrote:
On the hard drive, I suggest buying one of the 3rd party Sata adapters so you can use a modern hard drive with lots of storage. With the official Sony one, you'd be stuck with old and slow IDE hard drives. With sata you can buy a multi-terabyte hard drive to fit lots of multi gig DVD games.

Alternatively, if you'd like to have both the capacity, reliability, and quietness of a SATA disk while preserving your ability to use networking, you can swap out the official network adapter's IDE board with one of these.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:16 pm 



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 229
Location: North West - UK
You can also use network share on phat or slim models.

If your going down FMCB (FreeMemoryCardBoot) route check websites. ps2-home and gbatemp.

Note Popstarter (PS1 loader) GunCon is not recognised.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:21 pm 


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pcb_revival wrote:
You can also use network share on phat or slim models.

If your going down FMCB (FreeMemoryCardBoot) route check websites. ps2-home and gbatemp.

Note Popstarter (PS1 loader) GunCon is not recognised.

popstarter is pure dick cancer - I'd strongly urge anyone who has not had the misfortune of experiencing it to keep it that way


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:29 pm 


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Great info guys, especially cr4zymanz0r.
I'm going to get s sync stripping cable, since even though it is expensive, it wont die with the console.

I certainly want to set up an HDD. I see that the sata interfaces are cheap on ebay and I have a spare 2TB Sata HDD, but I have one question:
If I am going to run games off an HDD, do I still need to have a chipped console to play different region games? Since the copy protection is based on the CD drive itself, I am bypassing that by loading from the HDD no?
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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:57 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 311
Crayfish wrote:
Since the copy protection is based on the CD drive itself, I am bypassing that by loading from the HDD no?


That's right.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:47 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 542
Crayfish wrote:
Great info guys, especially cr4zymanz0r.
I'm going to get s sync stripping cable, since even though it is expensive, it wont die with the console.

I certainly want to set up an HDD. I see that the sata interfaces are cheap on ebay and I have a spare 2TB Sata HDD, but I have one question:
If I am going to run games off an HDD, do I still need to have a chipped console to play different region games? Since the copy protection is based on the CD drive itself, I am bypassing that by loading from the HDD no?


No for PS2 games because you can patch games from other regions to work with an unchipped console with free mcboot. For example, I bought a Jap Virtua Cop disc which does not work on my US PS2 unless I burn it and then patch it. Then it can be run on any PS2 from disc or from HDD on a fat PS2.

Free mcboot does not let you play burnt PS1 discs (from any region) or foreign original discs. You need to chip the console for that. Even then, I am not sure if you could run PS1 games from the HDD.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:52 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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Classicgamer wrote:
For example, I bought a Jap Virtua Cop disc which does not work on my US PS2 unless I burn it and then patch it. Then it can be run on any PS2 from disc or from HDD on a fat PS2.

Minor clarification: this bit insinuates that you need to patch PS2 games to run them from the HDD; however, you only need to patch games if you intend to burn them to disc and run them with ESR--no patching is necessary if you're loading games from the HDD.

And, yeah, you know that already; this isn't for you. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:48 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 542
nmalinoski wrote:
Classicgamer wrote:
For example, I bought a Jap Virtua Cop disc which does not work on my US PS2 unless I burn it and then patch it. Then it can be run on any PS2 from disc or from HDD on a fat PS2.

Minor clarification: this bit insinuates that you need to patch PS2 games to run them from the HDD; however, you only need to patch games if you intend to burn them to disc and run them with ESR--no patching is necessary if you're loading games from the HDD.

And, yeah, you know that already; this isn't for you. :)


The patching is to make the Jap game work on a US ps2. Have you been able to play Jap games on a softmodded US console by simply copying the original Jp game to an HDD? I haven't been able to get any Jap games to work without patching (or chipping the console).


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:11 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
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Classicgamer wrote:
Have you been able to play Jap games on a softmodded US console by simply copying the original Jp game to an HDD?


This is definitely possible. In my experience no patching is needed at all, at least when using OPL. Should be the same with the old HD Loader. What did you use to launch the games from the HDD when you had this problem? And how were you transferring the games to the HDD?


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:08 pm 


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Classicgamer wrote:
The patching is to make the Jap game work on a US ps2. Have you been able to play Jap games on a softmodded US console by simply copying the original Jp game to an HDD? I haven't been able to get any Jap games to work without patching (or chipping the console).


All games work through OPL on my PS2 and I have never patched anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:35 pm 


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Just a little confused by the subsequent replies here.
I am buying a UK Pal console which I will add a Sata HDD to. Will I be able to play US/JP PS1 & PS2 ISOs from the HDD without chipping the console?

The copy protection is tied to the CD reading, and the 50-60hZH difference is tied to the game on PS1/2 not the console no, so no need to chip it?
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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:42 pm 


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Using Open PS2 loader you can play PS2 only from the HDD. PS1 games launched from HDD will run in an emulator and not use the "PS1 mode" of the console, as in that mode it cannot use the HDD at all.

You can install a chip to allow for PS1 games to work from burned discs only, or a full PS2 modchip which allows for PS2 games from disc as well but is much more complex and doesn't always play nice with the HDD mods.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:43 pm 


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Kez wrote:
Using Open PS2 loader you can play PS2 only from the HDD. PS1 games launched from HDD will run in an emulator and not use the "PS1 mode" of the console, as in that mode it cannot use the HDD at all.

You can install a chip to allow for PS1 games to work from burned discs only, or a full PS2 modchip which allows for PS2 games from disc as well but is much more complex and doesn't always play nice with the HDD mods.

So even if I get an HDD, I can only play PS2 games from it, to use the PS1 hardware inside the PS2 I will still need a chipped PS2 and burn the PS1 discs?
If this is the case, then I might forget about the HDD all together.
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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:39 pm 


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Crayfish wrote:
So even if I get an HDD, I can only play PS2 games from it, to use the PS1 hardware inside the PS2 I will still need a chipped PS2 and burn the PS1 discs?
If this is the case, then I might forget about the HDD all together.


Yeah, basically. But the full PS2 modchip (Matrix Infinity/Modbo) is a major PITA to install, whereas you can mod a PS2 to only play PS1 discs with a PIC chip and a few wires, then do the HDD/softmod for PS2 games, which is way more convenient than burning DVDs anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:44 pm 


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Kez wrote:
Crayfish wrote:
So even if I get an HDD, I can only play PS2 games from it, to use the PS1 hardware inside the PS2 I will still need a chipped PS2 and burn the PS1 discs?
If this is the case, then I might forget about the HDD all together.


Yeah, basically. But the full PS2 modchip (Matrix Infinity/Modbo) is a major PITA to install, whereas you can mod a PS2 to only play PS1 discs with a PIC chip and a few wires, then do the HDD/softmod for PS2 games, which is way more convenient than burning DVDs anyway.

Is there a well documented guide on using the PS1 chip on the PS2 for PS1 burns? I know it's possible, but I've yet to see a decent writeup anywhere

Doesn't matter for me since I've already installed a Modbo in mine, but seems like a lot of people ask about PS2 mods on the board who could use such a thing



I have some games on the HDD that I play a lot. I also have a lot of burned PS2 games. It's nice to be able to have the options.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:02 am 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
Is there a well documented guide on using the PS1 chip on the PS2 for PS1 burns? I know it's possible, but I've yet to see a decent writeup anywhere


Not that I know of unfortunately, the info is dotted about in assemblergames threads, with most of it in this one.

maxtherabbit wrote:
I have some games on the HDD that I play a lot. I also have a lot of burned PS2 games. It's nice to be able to have the options.


I have a Matrix Infinity PS2 but my main one is softmod only, I prefer FHDB over FMCB.. just cause I don't like having to keep one memory card in, and FHDB doesn't work with the modchip installed (unless you hold a button to disable the chip on boot).


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:27 am 



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Kez wrote:
Classicgamer wrote:
The patching is to make the Jap game work on a US ps2. Have you been able to play Jap games on a softmodded US console by simply copying the original Jp game to an HDD? I haven't been able to get any Jap games to work without patching (or chipping the console).


All games work through OPL on my PS2 and I have never patched anything.

This. I've never had to patch any PS2 game to get it to run on my retail North American console using classic HD Loader or OPL. Only thing I've had to watch out for is that PAL games make the console output in PAL video modes, and I didn't have anything compatible with PAL signalling until recently.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on getting modded PS1/PS2 for light guns on PVM
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:54 am 


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Kez wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
Is there a well documented guide on using the PS1 chip on the PS2 for PS1 burns? I know it's possible, but I've yet to see a decent writeup anywhere


Not that I know of unfortunately, the info is dotted about in assemblergames threads, with most of it in this one.

maxtherabbit wrote:
I have some games on the HDD that I play a lot. I also have a lot of burned PS2 games. It's nice to be able to have the options.


I have a Matrix Infinity PS2 but my main one is softmod only, I prefer FHDB over FMCB.. just cause I don't like having to keep one memory card in, and FHDB doesn't work with the modchip installed (unless you hold a button to disable the chip on boot).

yeah I don't mcboot - my softmod is the hacked Sony HDDOSD which coexists perfectly with the MI


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