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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:22 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
or Extron DSC 301 HD.


Is this actually not shit? I have not liked what I've used so far with Extron scalers. Not really looking for another scaler as I already have too many, but I'm curious.

For picking up the OSSC's slack, I quite like it. You'll still end up with 3-second dropouts during resolution switches (Or 1-second dropouts if you throw an HDMI to VGA converter in there), but it has decent deinterlacing, and it'll do framerate conversion to remove any compatibility issues you might have with the OSSC's 3x/4x/5x multipliers. I think it was Fudoh who said that its interlacing is not good, but I've personally not noticed any issues.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:30 pm 


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I have the 301 HD, I run the OSSC into it and use it for a lot of 480p content. To my eye, it definitely has better 480p scaling than both my TV and the Edge Green. I was able to get it very cheap, which is a bonus considering how expensive many of the better 480p scalers are now.


Last edited by Kez on Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:31 pm 


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The original XBOX kicked some super serious ass, and is totally worthwhile today. It is worth every ounce of its unrivaled mass.

As already mentioned, it is cheap and easy to get the machine to output progressive and often even 720p over component. This is, quite frankly, huge. It looks great, and PS2 couldn't really do this. It ran on a Pentium 3 at 733MHz, making it practically a full generation more powerful than the PS2. The difference in processing power is staggering.

It is softmodded trivially, and you can have a huge library sitting locally on your machine's HDD. You can rip CDs to this harddrive, and a very large number of games support using the audio from your ripped CDs during gameplay. Fantastic!

The "S"-model controller is the best 3D-gameplay-oriented official joypad for any system, period. The really big controller is great for those of us with American hands. All buttons are analog inputs. The triggers are great with lots of travel and good springs. Only one trigger on each side makes it much more comfortable to hold than more modern offerings.

It has ethernet built in, and can be networked with other XBOXs over standard IP with cheap off the shelf ethernet hubs. Up to four XBOXs can be networked this way for up to 16 players simultaneous on many games including HALO and its sequel.

The library is far stronger than people tend to remember, and it always, always, always had the absolute best version of the multi-platform titles. This is because of its superior hardware compared to the competition. A game with lots of slowdown on PS2 would still run great on XBOX, and could be output in progressive scan.

Burnout
HALO2
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Jet Set Radio Future
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2X
Grand Theft Auto 3
Brute Force
Timesplitters 2 and FP
Conker's Bad Fur Day (n64 is better)
Crimson Skies!!!!!
Gun Valkyry
Pyschonauts
Serious Sam
Steel Batallion


The best reason, really, to keep one around today is that it is host to easily the best versions of Timesplitters 2 and TS:FP. These games are the true sequels to 007: Goldeneye on the N64, and they were developed by the same people (at a different company). They are the most fun and insane party FPS games ever, and great for get-togethers. The XBOX is great at multiplayer. That is really its super power.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:35 pm 


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Kez wrote:
considering how expensive many of the better 480p scalers are now.


No kidding. There are a couple I would like that don't come up too often.

SCARTicus wrote:
As already mentioned, it is cheap and easy to get the machine to output progressive and often even 720p over component. This is, quite frankly, huge. It looks great, and PS2 couldn't really do this. It ran on a Pentium 3 at 733MHz, making it practically a full generation more powerful than the PS2. The difference in processing power is staggering.


It rips games so much faster than a PS2, it's kind of unreal.
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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:32 pm 


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There's a revised version of Outrun 2 released only in Japan where you can race on Scud Race's tracks.

I got my Xbox just for that.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:17 pm 


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donluca wrote:
There's a revised version of Outrun 2 released only in Japan where you can race on Scud Race's tracks.

I got my Xbox just for that.


Wow, as a huge Outrun 2 / 2006 / C2C fan that's great to hear, need to check that out...

nmalinoski wrote:
ASDR wrote:
One of the few where even the PS2 version has widescreen & 480p. But you get DD 5.1. And the game is amazing in any case.

Wait, does the Xbox version not support surround? Even when using the digital audio output?


I meant that's the main advantage of the OGXB version as the PS2 doesn't have that.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:20 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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SCARTicus wrote:
The original XBOX kicked some super serious ass, and is totally worthwhile today. It is worth every ounce of its unrivaled mass.

As already mentioned, it is cheap and easy to get the machine to output progressive and often even 720p over component. This is, quite frankly, huge. It looks great, and PS2 couldn't really do this. It ran on a Pentium 3 at 733MHz, making it practically a full generation more powerful than the PS2. The difference in processing power is staggering.

It is softmodded trivially, and you can have a huge library sitting locally on your machine's HDD. You can rip CDs to this harddrive, and a very large number of games support using the audio from your ripped CDs during gameplay. Fantastic!

The "S"-model controller is the best 3D-gameplay-oriented official joypad for any system, period. The really big controller is great for those of us with American hands. All buttons are analog inputs. The triggers are great with lots of travel and good springs. Only one trigger on each side makes it much more comfortable to hold than more modern offerings.

It has ethernet built in, and can be networked with other XBOXs over standard IP with cheap off the shelf ethernet hubs. Up to four XBOXs can be networked this way for up to 16 players simultaneous on many games including HALO and its sequel.

The library is far stronger than people tend to remember, and it always, always, always had the absolute best version of the multi-platform titles. This is because of its superior hardware compared to the competition. A game with lots of slowdown on PS2 would still run great on XBOX, and could be output in progressive scan.

Burnout
HALO2
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Jet Set Radio Future
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2X
Grand Theft Auto 3
Brute Force
Timesplitters 2 and FP
Conker's Bad Fur Day (n64 is better)
Crimson Skies!!!!!
Gun Valkyry
Pyschonauts
Serious Sam
Steel Batallion


The best reason, really, to keep one around today is that it is host to easily the best versions of Timesplitters 2 and TS:FP. These games are the true sequels to 007: Goldeneye on the N64, and they were developed by the same people (at a different company). They are the most fun and insane party FPS games ever, and great for get-togethers. The XBOX is great at multiplayer. That is really its super power.


Thanks. Good info.

The whole PS2 / Xbox generation is a complete blackout for me as I was at college and lost all interest in video games for a while. The next console I bought after my PS1 was a PS3 slim and a Wii. I've had a lot of fun getting to know the PS2 and (to a lesser extent) the Dreamcast recently. It peaked my interest in the Xbox.

Given the Xbox's higher resolutions, is it better to use one with an HD flatscreen than a 480p crt? My PS3 monitor works with 480p component.I'd be ok with switching to 480i for house of the Dead 3 on my rgb CRT.

Can all Xbox models be softmodded? Is there any region locking or any differences in video output options between the US and Jap models?


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:22 pm 



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ASDR wrote:
donluca wrote:
There's a revised version of Outrun 2 released only in Japan where you can race on Scud Race's tracks.

I got my Xbox just for that.


Wow, as a huge Outrun 2 / 2006 / C2C fan that's great to hear, need to check that out...

nmalinoski wrote:
ASDR wrote:
One of the few where even the PS2 version has widescreen & 480p. But you get DD 5.1. And the game is amazing in any case.

Wait, does the Xbox version not support surround? Even when using the digital audio output?


I meant that's the main advantage of the OGXB version as the PS2 doesn't have that.


That and Teknoparrot. They have the arcade versions running on regular PCs now.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:27 pm 


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Classicgamer wrote:

Thanks. Good info.

The whole PS2 / Xbox generation is a complete blackout for me as I was at college and lost all interest in video games for a while. The next console I bought after my PS1 was a PS3 slim and a Wii. I've had a lot of fun getting to know the PS2 and (to a lesser extent) the Dreamcast recently. It peaked my interest in the Xbox.

Given the Xbox's higher resolutions, is it better to use one with an HD flatscreen than a 480p crt? My PS3 monitor works with 480p component.I'd be ok with switching to 480i for house of the Dead 3 on my rgb CRT.


If you like this generation then yes getting the Xbox is worthwhile, a no brainer really. I think it's a fantastic gaming generation as well. I actually like it more than the generation that followed tbh.

Given what you've said about your set-up, it would really just be easier for you to use an LCD for it. It will look good enough, imo. My personal preference for Xbox is HD CRT.

Classicgamer wrote:
Can all Xbox models be softmodded? Is there any region locking or any differences in video output options between the US and Jap models?


Yes. It's a region locked console. Not to my knowledge.
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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 pm 


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Classicgamer wrote:

Thanks. Good info.

The whole PS2 / Xbox generation is a complete blackout for me as I was at college and lost all interest in video games for a while. The next console I bought after my PS1 was a PS3 slim and a Wii. I've had a lot of fun getting to know the PS2 and (to a lesser extent) the Dreamcast recently. It peaked my interest in the Xbox.

Given the Xbox's higher resolutions, is it better to use one with an HD flatscreen than a 480p crt? My PS3 monitor works with 480p component.I'd be ok with switching to 480i for house of the Dead 3 on my rgb CRT.

Can all Xbox models be softmodded? Is there any region locking or any differences in video output options between the US and Jap models?


No, I would never recommend using anything but a CRT for 480i/p. If you are in the United States, many late-model CRT televisions have component inputs. The widescreen ones tend to support progressive scan as well, and are sometimes even 720p/1080i capable. If I was going to add an XBOX to my (too large) setup, I would connect it to either my RetroTink2x or my OSSC over component, and then to my PC CRT monitor via a cheap HDMI2VGA adapter.

There was only one model of original XBOX. They can all be modded. Region protection is software based. If you softmod the machine, it will play all regions without fuss, but you need to tell PAL games to run at 60Hz IIRC.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:51 pm 



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I guess the only way to see what I prefer to is get one an test it. I'll most likely end up using my CRT, even if it's the HDMI to VGA route.

Long term, if I like the console, I'll find a way to mod it to output 480p natively.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:58 pm 


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There's a number of xbox revisions with different video quality, as I recently learned (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=64176). They can all be softmodded. All consoles of different regions are equivalent when it comes to video/compatibility after softmodding and changing the video BIOS.

When you get your xbox, keep in mind they're all ticking timebombs for several reasons.

- Capacitors. There's a notorious clock capacitor that leaks on most revisions. I found all of the power supply bypass caps in both my xboxes had either started to leak or had leaked. You need to take care of the caps immediately (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=64175)
- Null your HDD key! Each xbox console locks its HD with a key stored in its EEPROM. It will only accept a new HDD locked with that key. If you either didn't Null the key or didn't write it down, you can't make a replacement drive for that console and will now either have to install a modchip or manually read out the SPI EEPROM. Just Null that key ASAP.
- Many of the DVD drive models are of very poor quality. Obviously you don't need the drive anymore once you've done the softmod, but you can't do the softmod if the drive is dead. So do that ASAP.
- The heat pad on CPU/GPU will be some kind of bone hard brittle crap by now, you should replace that


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:58 pm 


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Classicgamer wrote:
I guess the only way to see what I prefer to is get one an test it. I'll most likely end up using my CRT, even if it's the HDMI to VGA route.

Long term, if I like the console, I'll find a way to mod it to output 480p natively.


It does 480p natively. It does it in YPbPr over RCA, which is the standard way to transmit 480p. You have been asking about VGA, which typically uses RGBHV over DE-15. The XBOX outputs 480p natively. Do not imply otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:55 pm 



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SCARTicus wrote:
Classicgamer wrote:
I guess the only way to see what I prefer to is get one an test it. I'll most likely end up using my CRT, even if it's the HDMI to VGA route.

Long term, if I like the console, I'll find a way to mod it to output 480p natively.


It does 480p natively. It does it in YPbPr over RCA, which is the standard way to transmit 480p. You have been asking about VGA, which typically uses RGBHV over DE-15. The XBOX outputs 480p natively. Do not imply otherwise.


I know but what we have been talking about is how I can use my 480p RGB crt monitor and, as everyone had said, the Xbox can not output 480p rgb natively. So, I'll need to mod it or use adapters. So... no need to get snippy.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:07 pm 



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Classicgamer wrote:
Can all Xbox models be softmodded? Is there any region locking or any differences in video output options between the US and Jap models?

All of them can be softmodded. All but 1.6, I believe, can have the BIOS reflashed for greater capability, such as zeroing out the HDD lock key, so any off-the-shelf HDD can be used and, as previously mentioned, support for RGsB out.

A softmodded Xbox should correctly run all games at whatever video output settings are supported, regardless of region. An excellent example would be games that heavily rely on timing, such as the Dance Dance Revolution and Dancing Stage Ultramix games. I've been able to play the PAL variants on my NTSC console at 480p60, without any of the desyncing that is typically seen when running PAL DDRs on NTSC PS1 or PS2 hardware.

And, again, Xboxes have the concept of a video region, distinct from game and DVD region locking. Those with a PAL video region are limited to 576i50 and PAL60 modes, with no access to 480p, 720p, or 1080i; and those with an NTSC video region can do 480p, 720p, and 1080i, but not 576i or PAL60. This video region can be changed with an application running from a softmod.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:14 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
All of them can be softmodded. All but 1.6, I believe, can have the BIOS reflashed for greater capability, such as zeroing out the HDD lock key, so any off-the-shelf HDD can be used and, as previously mentioned, support for RGsB out.


So, on the 1.6 you can't do the TSOP flash, actually overwriting the stock BIOS. That doesn't really give you any additional functionality, it mostly gets you out of some troublesome situations. For instance, with any softmodded xbox you *can* Null the HDD key, as that is stored in the SPI EEPROM and not the TSOP flash. But with the TSOP flashed console you can just put a BIOS on that doesn't care about HDD keys in the first place. That wouldn't work without the TSOP flash as the softmod is stored on the HDD, which a stock BIOS might reject if it's locked with the wrong key. I'd say the TSOP flash really just gives you a bit more ability to recover from certain situations, but once you Nulled/backed up the HDD key, I don't think this really matters anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:18 am 


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Classicgamer wrote:
SCARTicus wrote:
Classicgamer wrote:
I guess the only way to see what I prefer to is get one an test it. I'll most likely end up using my CRT, even if it's the HDMI to VGA route.

Long term, if I like the console, I'll find a way to mod it to output 480p natively.


It does 480p natively. It does it in YPbPr over RCA, which is the standard way to transmit 480p. You have been asking about VGA, which typically uses RGBHV over DE-15. The XBOX outputs 480p natively. Do not imply otherwise.


I know but what we have been talking about is how I can use my 480p RGB crt monitor and, as everyone had said, the Xbox can not output 480p rgb natively. So, I'll need to mod it or use adapters. So... no need to get snippy.


People come to this board for information, and old, archived threads can be scoured for all sorts of useful data. Accuracy counts, and words have meanings. In your previous post, you did in fact imply that the XBOX cannot natively output 480p when you typed

Classicgamer wrote:
I'll find a way to mod it to output 480p natively.


Someone reading this thread could easily get an inaccurate idea on the capabilities of the console. You are creating bad data, and you don't even care. By the way, we have a term to describe RGBHV@640x480, and that term is VGA. As a matter of fact, it is a standard. A standard that has existed for over 30 years. CRT computer monitors used computer display standards, not broadcast video standards.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:10 pm 



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ASDR wrote:
Kez wrote:
Outrun Coast 2 Cost is awesome on the OG Xbox, 480p and widescreen support.


One of the few where even the PS2 version has widescreen & 480p. But you get DD 5.1. And the game is amazing in any case.

I really wanted to argue this one, because it seemed incredibly odd that the version for the PS2, which has a TOSLINK output built in, would lack surround, where the Xbox version, which requires a non-trivially-priced accessory to get TOSLINK output, would have it; however, you are absolutely right. When playing the PS2 version, my AVR only reports stereo audio, even over TOSLINK; and, when playing the Xbox version, my AVR reports full surround.

I should also point out that the Xbox version supports both 480p and widescreen simultaneously, whereas the PS2 version appears to support 480p or widescreen, but not both, even when the system display setting is set to 16:9. That kind of sucks (sucked?) for PS2 owners.

Also also, the PS2 version apparently requires a PS2 controller; I tried booting the game with a DualShock 1 controller, because it's what I had lying around, and the game was just entirely unresponsive at the no-memory-card warning; but, booting the game with a DualShock 2 showed no issues.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:37 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
ASDR wrote:
Kez wrote:
Outrun Coast 2 Cost is awesome on the OG Xbox, 480p and widescreen support.


One of the few where even the PS2 version has widescreen & 480p. But you get DD 5.1. And the game is amazing in any case.

I really wanted to argue this one, because it seemed incredibly odd that the version for the PS2, which has a TOSLINK output built in, would lack surround, where the Xbox version, which requires a non-trivially-priced accessory to get TOSLINK output, would have it; however, you are absolutely right. When playing the PS2 version, my AVR only reports stereo audio, even over TOSLINK; and, when playing the Xbox version, my AVR reports full surround.

I should also point out that the Xbox version supports both 480p and widescreen simultaneously, whereas the PS2 version appears to support 480p or widescreen, but not both, even when the system display setting is set to 16:9. That kind of sucks (sucked?) for PS2 owners.

Also also, the PS2 version apparently requires a PS2 controller; I tried booting the game with a DualShock 1 controller, because it's what I had lying around, and the game was just entirely unresponsive at the no-memory-card warning; but, booting the game with a DualShock 2 showed no issues.

PS2 has almost no support for surround in game, a few games will use DD 5.1 for cutscenes but I've never found a game that uses it for gameplay - where it's common on xbox


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:40 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
ASDR wrote:
Kez wrote:
Outrun Coast 2 Cost is awesome on the OG Xbox, 480p and widescreen support.


One of the few where even the PS2 version has widescreen & 480p. But you get DD 5.1. And the game is amazing in any case.

I really wanted to argue this one, because it seemed incredibly odd that the version for the PS2, which has a TOSLINK output built in, would lack surround, where the Xbox version, which requires a non-trivially-priced accessory to get TOSLINK output, would have it; however, you are absolutely right. When playing the PS2 version, my AVR only reports stereo audio, even over TOSLINK; and, when playing the Xbox version, my AVR reports full surround.


The NVIDIA chipset in the OGBX has a full hardware DD 5.1 encoder while on the PS2 it's all done in software. That's why basically every xbox game has full surround while a select few PS2 games do DD 5.1 and only some do Dolby ProLogic. I also don't think any receiver can actually auto detect Dolby ProLogic. It's just a stereo signal with some clever tricks to encode additional channels, you'd have to manually switch your receiver to Dolby ProLogic even with games that support it.

nmalinoski wrote:
I should also point out that the Xbox version supports both 480p and widescreen simultaneously, whereas the PS2 version appears to support 480p or widescreen, but not both, even when the system display setting is set to 16:9. That kind of sucks (sucked?) for PS2 owners.


I played quite a bit of C2C on the PS2 and it does support widescreen and 480p on the PS2? It just changes the aspect ratio of the actual 3D content, though. All UI and HUD elements remain sized for 4:3 so they look stretched, but the 3D should look correct at 16:9 if you select it.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:48 pm 


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ASDR wrote:
The NVIDIA chipset in the OGBX has a full hardware DD 5.1 encoder while on the PS2 it's all done in software. That's why basically every xbox game has full surround while a select few PS2 games do DD 5.1 and only some do Dolby ProLogic. I also don't think any receiver can actually auto detect Dolby ProLogic. It's just a stereo signal with some clever tricks to encode additional channels, you'd have to manually switch your receiver to Dolby ProLogic even with games that support it.


when the output mode is dolby digital 2.0 over toslink/spdif there is a flag in the bitstream which indicates whether or not there is matrixed surround information (dolby surround / pro logic) that receivers use to automatically activate pro logic mode

IIRC 2 channel PCM does not have the same flag, although you can still use it for prologic if it was properly matrixed at the source - you would just have to manually switch the receiver over like you said

not sure if the PS2 ever uses DD 2.0 though, it's probably only doing PCM stereo


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:08 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
ASDR wrote:
Kez wrote:
Outrun Coast 2 Cost is awesome on the OG Xbox, 480p and widescreen support.


One of the few where even the PS2 version has widescreen & 480p. But you get DD 5.1. And the game is amazing in any case.

I really wanted to argue this one, because it seemed incredibly odd that the version for the PS2, which has a TOSLINK output built in, would lack surround, where the Xbox version, which requires a non-trivially-priced accessory to get TOSLINK output, would have it; however, you are absolutely right. When playing the PS2 version, my AVR only reports stereo audio, even over TOSLINK; and, when playing the Xbox version, my AVR reports full surround.

I should also point out that the Xbox version supports both 480p and widescreen simultaneously, whereas the PS2 version appears to support 480p or widescreen, but not both, even when the system display setting is set to 16:9. That kind of sucks (sucked?) for PS2 owners.

Also also, the PS2 version apparently requires a PS2 controller; I tried booting the game with a DualShock 1 controller, because it's what I had lying around, and the game was just entirely unresponsive at the no-memory-card warning; but, booting the game with a DualShock 2 showed no issues.


I'm not too sure why such PS2 games require a PS2 controller. Even if they have no known use of any DualShock 2 functions (the pressure sensitive buttons).

Have you guys tried the Japanese PS2 version of Outrun 2? There's some differences, but it's gotten rather expensive...


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:13 pm 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
PS2 has almost no support for surround in game, a few games will use DD 5.1 for cutscenes but I've never found a game that uses it for gameplay - where it's common on xbox


GTA3 Vice City has 4.0 DTS surround and, IIRC, Wipeout Fusion has full 5.1 DD surround.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:23 pm 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
when the output mode is dolby digital 2.0 over toslink/spdif there is a flag in the bitstream which indicates whether or not there is matrixed surround information (dolby surround / pro logic) that receivers use to automatically activate pro logic mode

IIRC 2 channel PCM does not have the same flag, although you can still use it for prologic if it was properly matrixed at the source - you would just have to manually switch the receiver over like you said

not sure if the PS2 ever uses DD 2.0 though, it's probably only doing PCM stereo


Interesting. The PS2 is the only console I can think of that has an optical out but does not generally do DD/DTS etc., at least with my AVR the output is always recognized as PCM Stereo. Honestly, ProLogic2 is generally pretty underwhelming anyway. I mostly do not bother and just keep the PS2 stereo.

donluca wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
PS2 has almost no support for surround in game, a few games will use DD 5.1 for cutscenes but I've never found a game that uses it for gameplay - where it's common on xbox


GTA3 Vice City has 4.0 DTS surround and, IIRC, Wipeout Fusion has full 5.1 DD surround.


Yeah, there are like a dozen games or so that do it. It must really difficult to pull this off on PS2 hardware. Just realtime compressing 4-6 audio streams without special hardware must be quite taxing, no surprise most game developers did not go that route.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:39 pm 



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ASDR wrote:
I played quite a bit of C2C on the PS2 and it does support widescreen and 480p on the PS2? It just changes the aspect ratio of the actual 3D content, though. All UI and HUD elements remain sized for 4:3 so they look stretched, but the 3D should look correct at 16:9 if you select it.

Perhaps I need to check again; I noticed the stretched UI elements and normal 3D in the Xbox version, but the PS2 version didn't seem to be displaying in widescreen at all, and there wasn't an option for it that I saw.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:40 pm 



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Posts: 1001
Classicgamer wrote:
Given the Xbox's higher resolutions, is it better to use one with an HD flatscreen than a 480p crt? My PS3 monitor works with 480p component.I'd be ok with switching to 480i for house of the Dead 3 on my rgb CRT.


Others pointed this out, but a 480p CRT still destroys anything I've seen upscaled on my 1080p and 4K flatscreens - doesn't matter if I'm using the OSSC, XRGB-mini, Extron DSC, or any combination of the above - still looks better on a quality 480p CRT.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:50 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
ASDR wrote:
I played quite a bit of C2C on the PS2 and it does support widescreen and 480p on the PS2? It just changes the aspect ratio of the actual 3D content, though. All UI and HUD elements remain sized for 4:3 so they look stretched, but the 3D should look correct at 16:9 if you select it.

Perhaps I need to check again; I noticed the stretched UI elements and normal 3D in the Xbox version, but the PS2 version didn't seem to be displaying in widescreen at all, and there wasn't an option for it that I saw.


Then again, if you have the xbox version... I only played the PS2 version because I had that console setup with FMCB+OPL but never really looked into piracy on the XB as I had pretty much everything I wanted on original discs. I have a copy of Outrun 2006 but Outrun C2C on OGXB is surprisingly expensive. The main advantage of the Xbox version is the much more stable framerate. On PS2 it drops during quite a few sections.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:54 pm 


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Dochartaigh wrote:
Others pointed this out, but a 480p CRT still destroys anything I've seen upscaled on my 1080p and 4K flatscreens - doesn't matter if I'm using the OSSC, XRGB-mini, Extron DSC, or any combination of the above - still looks better on a quality 480p CRT.


Is there such a thing as a 480p only monitor, besides arcade ones?

All my CRT monitors are capable of displaying up to 1600x1200@60Hz or 2048xsomething @60Hz


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:57 pm 


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I have a consumer Samsung widescreen HD CRT that syncs directly to 480p with no lag. Xbox is pretty great on it


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to buy an original Xbox in 2019?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:37 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 870
Dochartaigh wrote:
Classicgamer wrote:
Given the Xbox's higher resolutions, is it better to use one with an HD flatscreen than a 480p crt? My PS3 monitor works with 480p component.I'd be ok with switching to 480i for house of the Dead 3 on my rgb CRT.


Others pointed this out, but a 480p CRT still destroys anything I've seen upscaled on my 1080p and 4K flatscreens - doesn't matter if I'm using the OSSC, XRGB-mini, Extron DSC, or any combination of the above - still looks better on a quality 480p CRT.


Yeah, that's been my experience with my other consoles too. Even 720p PS3 games.

Also, just because an old console can output a 720p or 1080i signal, it doesn't mean it will look good. A lot depends on how it is generated. Most older consoles seem to do a horrible job of upscaling and they aren't really powerful enough to render 3d graphics in higher resolutions.

I'm going to start with an HDMI to VGA set-up as I already have everything to make it work. Then I'll see how much I like the Xbox before deciding how much I want to invest in mods or additional transcoders.

I'm still not clear on what the issue is with Xbox HDMI specifically. I.e., does it look bad on HD flatscreens due to poor scaling or if it is something more fundamental with how the digital hd rgb signal is generated.


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