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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest video card for 4K@120hz for Retroarch?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:23 am 


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Joined: 08 Mar 2015
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Location: Québec City
Xyga wrote:
Remember the quoted lag is middle of the screen which means input lag +8.3ms, thechnically the input lag on the LG is just under 1 frame.
Is that really noticeable vs. a CRT ? I doubt many people could actually tell.

Also the XBR 960 is famous for being among the few CRTs to do interlacing+deinterlacing and image processing for aspect correction, on practically everything you feed it and generating input lag, which is likely to be over 1 frame.

Maybe it's a case similar to the plasma motion placebo effect, that for years made people claim plasmas had less lag than LCDs by default, but this isn't true, rather the better motion made users 'just feel' it more responsive.
It's possible that you enjoy more playing on the XBR960 because of its CRT properties, but in reality it is very likely that it is your LG can produce the least lag and the purest picture.

I agree with all of that. good post


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest video card for 4K@120hz for Retroarch?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:04 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
Bahn Yuki wrote:
With the LG oled having 22ms lag even in game mode it just wasn't worth it when I could just give up size and have better image quality and display lag on my Sony 34xbr960.

Remember the quoted lag is middle of the screen which means input lag +8.3ms, thechnically the input lag on the LG is just under 1 frame.
Is that really noticeable vs. a CRT ? I doubt many people could actually tell.

Also the XBR 960 is famous for being among the few CRTs to do interlacing+deinterlacing and image processing for aspect correction, on practically everything you feed it and generating input lag, which is likely to be over 1 frame.

Maybe it's a case similar to the plasma motion placebo effect, that for years made people claim plasmas had less lag than LCDs by default, but this isn't true, rather the better motion made users 'just feel' it more responsive.
It's possible that you enjoy more playing on the XBR960 because of its CRT properties, but in reality it is very likely that it is your LG can produce the least lag and the purest picture.
I have not found that be the case with my sets. Even at 720p is at 21ms in both hdmi and component. 480p(regardless of screen mode) is 21ms in HDmi, yet 38ms over component. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your statement but I find the 34xbr960 pretty excellent, especially if you can send it 1080i as I've posted above measured equal to the SD crts and my apple studio monitor.

The ps4 pro comes with a handy overscan option which makes 1080i shine on the 960.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest video card for 4K@120hz for Retroarch?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:14 pm 


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energizerfellow‌ wrote:
Xyga wrote:
Also the XBR 960 is famous for being among the few CRTs to do interlacing+deinterlacing and image processing for aspect correction, on practically everything you feed it and generating input lag, which is likely to be over 1 frame.

Yep, those Hi-Scan and Super Fine Pitch FD Trinitrons like the KD-34XBR960 were a good ~2 frames behind on lag vs an analog CRT TV. Lots of TVs are faster than that these days.

Here's a Hi-Scan Sony KV-27HS420 doing it's laggy thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--xY_NvwJ_g

Don't forget that Youtube lets you step a video frame by frame with the comma and period keys when paused the video is paused.
https://youtu.be/tDLQrGKEnVI

I see your video and raise you one of my own! Actually I believe sending 240p over component(hdmi won't sync) gets treated as 480i in all drc modes and has a whopping 54ms!

Using the OSSC line double worked and the time sleuth does 21ms over HDMI. Unfortunately I couldn't get like triple going. If only the OSSC could do 1080i...

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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest video card for 4K@120hz for Retroarch?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:06 pm 


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[quote="Bahn Yuki"]I have not found that be the case with my sets. Even at 720p is at 21ms in both hdmi and component.[quote]
Are you still quoting lag at the middle of the screen ? or top ? or bottom ? specify all measurements otherwise it's worthless.

You - everyone - has to understand once and for all that top is the input lag, middle is it + 1/2 a frame, bottom is input lag + 1 frame (except in specific cases but that's not the issue, what's more important is to call a cat a cat, you have a lag tester: use it properly and give us all the measurements figures)
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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest video card for 4K@120hz for Retroarch?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:47 am 


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Xyga wrote:
Bahn Yuki wrote:
I have not found that be the case with my sets. Even at 720p is at 21ms in both hdmi and component.
Quote:
Are you still quoting lag at the middle of the screen ? or top ? or bottom ? specify all measurements otherwise it's worthless.

You - everyone - has to understand once and for all that top is the input lag, middle is it + 1/2 a frame, bottom is input lag + 1 frame (except in specific cases but that's not the issue, what's more important is to call a cat a cat, you have a lag tester: use it properly and give us all the measurements figures)
HDMI. Top. Middle. Bottom
1080i. 00.83ms. 7.44ms. 14.81ms
720p. 14.88ms. 21.58ms. 28.74ms
480p. 14.98ms. 21.24ms. 28.39ms

I tried using screen sizes(Full, Zoom, Normal) for 480p and it made no difference despite seeing many posts saying they do. I hope everyone is happy with these measurements and I tested this on two seperate 34XBR960s that are right next to each other.



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DC,Xbox,SS,GEN32XCD,SNES,N64>Samsung 55Q8FN
3DO,360,Wii>SONY 34XBR910


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest video card for 4K@120hz for Retroarch?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:53 am 


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Lol there is a little miscommunication sorry, I was talking about/expected measurements from your OLED, but this is also quite useful, you're the first person to post full lag results for the XBR 960.
Its input lag in 480p and 720p is 15ms then, that's good really.
1080i is lagless apparently, which is good to know.

Can you try a 240p input too ? also using the resizing and aspect settings please (this is where it matters, ppl complain about the lag with it, which could be higher than with 480/720p...or not, you have to find out)

(and definitely test and post the LG as well)
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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest video card for 4K@120hz for Retroarch?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:09 pm 


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Bahn Yuki wrote:
HDMI. Top. Middle. Bottom
1080i. 00.83ms. 7.44ms. 14.81ms
720p. 14.88ms. 21.58ms. 28.74ms
480p. 14.98ms. 21.24ms. 28.39ms

I tried using screen sizes(Full, Zoom, Normal) for 480p and it made no difference despite seeing many posts saying they do. I hope everyone is happy with these measurements and I tested this on two seperate 34XBR960s that are right next to each other.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

does this set have the HDPT service menu setting enabled?


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest video card for 4K@120hz for Retroarch?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:21 pm 


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Location: Salem OR
Xyga wrote:
Lol there is a little miscommunication sorry, I was talking about/expected measurements from your OLED, but this is also quite useful, you're the first person to post full lag results for the XBR 960.
Its input lag in 480p and 720p is 15ms then, that's good really.
1080i is lagless apparently, which is good to know.

Can you try a 240p input too ? also using the resizing and aspect settings please (this is where it matters, ppl complain about the lag with it, which could be higher than with 480/720p...or not, you have to find out)

(and definitely test and post the LG as well)
I'll start up another thread since the lag has derailed this one.

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_________________
PC,PS4>DENONX4300H>LG OLED65C7
DC,Xbox,SS,GEN32XCD,SNES,N64>Samsung 55Q8FN
3DO,360,Wii>SONY 34XBR910


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest video card for 4K@120hz for Retroarch?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:22 pm 


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Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 123
Location: Salem OR
maxtherabbit wrote:
Bahn Yuki wrote:
HDMI. Top. Middle. Bottom
1080i. 00.83ms. 7.44ms. 14.81ms
720p. 14.88ms. 21.58ms. 28.74ms
480p. 14.98ms. 21.24ms. 28.39ms

I tried using screen sizes(Full, Zoom, Normal) for 480p and it made no difference despite seeing many posts saying they do. I hope everyone is happy with these measurements and I tested this on two seperate 34XBR960s that are right next to each other.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

does this set have the HDPT service menu setting enabled?
Yes. Hdpt only effects 1080i. All the other settings like mide or yosw were irrelevant.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
_________________
PC,PS4>DENONX4300H>LG OLED65C7
DC,Xbox,SS,GEN32XCD,SNES,N64>Samsung 55Q8FN
3DO,360,Wii>SONY 34XBR910


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