What's the best RGB to YUV (for CRT's) converter available?

[Taiyaki]

I've only ever used a CSY clone and although it got the job done. According to other users here I never got to see a proper RGB converted to YUV picture with it due to the mediocre output (and I believe it as I found real Component output tended to look a bit better color wise). Also I have never been able to experience proper scart RGB on a tv as the ones I tried it one did not give proper color output. I'm interested in giving this a try (especially after reading what FinalBaton had to say in another thread). I remember being recommended the Kramer some years ago and took a mental note but never did go out to buy one.

Is the Kramer FC14 or FC4 best suited for my needs? If I can go with the FC4 I would be able to skip on using bnc adapters on everything and the price seems to be less than half of the FC14, but is there a noticeable difference in terms of video output or general build quality (durability etc)? Do these units put out a lot of heat (looks like the FC14 can be turned off which is a nice plus in its favor but that's the only one I can see)? The CSY clone would put out an unreasonable amount of heat even when not in use, which was not reassuring and I would tend to unplug it as a result.

[Fudoh]

has been asked and answered recently: the best transcoder solution you can currently use is an OSSC coupled with the proper output dongle (HDMI to YUV if you want a RGB to YUV trancoding setup or HDMI to RGB if you want a YUV to RGB solution).

[Taiyaki]

Isn't that for digital tv's though? I'm talking about for use on consumer crt's.

[FinalBaton]

As far as solutions that don't need a dongle : the Shinybow SB-2840 has gotten lots of praise. I haven't seen one in use with my own eyes, but that's the one I'd be taking a chance on.

From reviews I've seen, it seems to perform better than the CSY-2000(the original)


The Kramer units are very hard to find

[Taiyaki]

As far as solutions that don't need a dongle : the Shinybow SB-2840 has gotten lots of praise. I haven't seen one in use with my own eyes, but that's the one I'd be taking a chance on.

From reviews I've seen, it seems to perform better than the CSY-2000(the original)


The Kramer units are very hard to find

Was it very rare at some point? I'm able to find both the FC4 and FC14 brand new in a few online stores. Prices are really high though for both (roughly 100 usd for the FC4).

Thanks for the link of the Shinybow, I'm going to read up on that. I like that it takes the audio out too.

However if I get another encoder I'd like it to be significantly better than the CSY clone so I'm still open to comparisons with the Kramer if anyone has experience with them.

[maxtherabbit]

there was another thread on here within the last few months showing how to calibrate the CSY with a scope

supposedly they can be pretty nice once dialed in

[FinalBaton]

However if I get another encoder I'd like it to be significantly better than the CSY clone so I'm still open to comparisons with the Kramer if anyone has experience with them.

That's fair, I too have been wanting to see a comparison between the Shinybow and the Kramer for years now

there was another thread on here within the last few months showing how to calibrate the CSY with a scope

supposedly they can be pretty nice once dialed in

Oh, that's true! I had forgotten about that. yeah according to that thread it can be tweaked to look pretty good

[FinalBaton]

nakedarthur's impressions of the Shinybow (no measurements though. but some pics of his Toshiba set. describes how it compared to his CSY-2100 clone) :
http://wavebeam.blogspot.com/2016/09/ha ... gb-to.html

[Fudoh]

The Shinybow is fine, if you know that you want to stay in the 15khz realm. I think it does 480p just as fine, but it gets complicated to actually get the signal in there in the first place. The OSSC provides you with both Scart and VGA inputs accepts a wide variety of signals.

I used the Kramer FC-15 for many years (basically in order to feed 15khz RGB to video processors that only provided component inputs) and the output quality is (in my eyes) 100% identical to the input.

[Classicgamer]

I used to use a JROK. It converts RGB to YUV or Component without changing the resolution.

It works with output from a PC, an arcade board or a console. It does a nice enough job if you use decent cables with proper grounding.

I used it mostly to connect a Groovy mame PC to an old Sony Trinitron which only had SVideo and composite ports:



The results were as good as the TV allowed (given it's age):

[Taiyaki]

Thanks for the link for the Shinybow review. I just finished reading it. Yes I'll be staying within the 15khz realm since I don't have any 24/33khz compatible tv's and don't intend to get any. I'm very much tempted to just go with the Shinybow. It's cheaper than the Kramer FC-4, ships from the US, and has the audio out integrated which further simplifies my setup.

Does it get hot when not in use? My VGA to Component Audio Authority transcoder stays cool, but my CSY clone would constantly run hot whether a signal was going through or not. I think you could heat up a glass of water by leaving it on top of that encoder. lol

Classicgamer thanks for the Jrok recommendation, I would like to try that for my groovymame setup crt.

[FinalBaton]

I'm curious to see what you'll go with! The FC-4 certainly makes the decision more difficult. They are pretty rare and when they show up are sometime more expensive than that, so having one available right now at $100 is certainly tempting, knowing that it does a perfecttranscoding job as Fudoh says. What's the shipping costs like for the Kramer?

I know I'd be torn between it and the Shinybow

[Taiyaki]

I think it's even cheaper as there's one store in the UK that is selling it without taxes for international customers (one has to contact them manually to process) which should bring it closer to 72 usd), even taking shipping into account this sounds very nice. My concern is no one else seems to have tested the FC4 (Fudoh mentions the FC-15), and then I have to find an extra adapter to draw the audio out of the Scart before entering the transcoder. In the past I never did find a good solution for drawing out the audio, the only one I could find was some cheap looking one on ebay. The Shinybow has the advantage of being an all in one solution, but yes I'm still a split because the Kramer looks tempting. ^^

[FinalBaton]

I know that Retro_Console_Accessories sells a SCART audio breakout box. I have one. Has worked well for me. I can't remember any extra noise introduced by it, but I haven't tested it rigourously. But I'm pretty picky about sound, I think I would have noticed if there was a hum. Seems well-made enough

Yes the built-in audio of the Shinybow is nice

[Taiyaki]

Yeah I'm ultra picky about sound too, on top of that it bothers me that the video has to go through one more device going in and out of that breakout box.

I did a lot of searching for reviews and I could not find a single review from gamers using the FC-4. I'm sure it's a pretty great device but I'm leaning towards the Shinybow for simplicity sake as it would also come packed with a US friendly power supply, where as I'm guessing Kramer would have a 220v power supply?

That being said yes Kramer seems to be an excellent and a well trusted brand, so I'm undecided...

[Einzelherz]

I have the shinybow and two csy clones. I never use the clones anymore because the shinybow is just that much better. There's no noticeable color shift (without a usable color suite on PS2 it's near impossible to test) and the CSYs color conversion pots actually decay/shift their settings over time. One that sat in the closet for a year was completely messed up when I plugged it in.

[Taiyaki]

Thank you Einzelherz, I appreciate your sharing your experiences. My CSY clone was in a draw for some years too (bought it around 2011 or 2012) when I pulled it out it around 2013 it had changed a lot too.

How hot does the Shinybow get? The CSY clone gets so hot constantly, even when not in use, basically requires being unplugged when not in use. Is the Shinybow like that too or can one just leave it plugged in the whole time?

[Einzelherz]

I've never noticed it being particularly hot and it's been plugged in over a year.

[Taiyaki]

Thank you Einzelherz, I went ahead and bought a Shinybow.

[Dochartaigh]

has been asked and answered recently: the best transcoder solution you can currently use is an OSSC coupled with the proper output dongle (HDMI to YUV if you want a RGB to YUV trancoding setup or HDMI to RGB if you want a YUV to RGB solution).

Which exact output dongles do you use? All the ones i'm finding (on a quick search on Amazon at least) seem to be converter boxes which need their own power supply.

[orange808]

FWIW, the Kramer solutions (like the FC-14) were all analog and didn't perform any ADC or DAC operations.

I'm not trying to force you into buying old, rare, and expensive gear, but facts are facts.

https://cdn.kramerav.com/web/downloads/ ... /fc-14.pdf

[Fudoh]

Which exact output dongles do you use? All the ones i'm finding (on a quick search on Amazon at least) seem to be converter boxes which need their own power supply.

yes, that's probably right. Technically there's no reason why a HDMI to YUV converter is more complex or would need more power than a HDMI to RGB one, but probably due to the connector size (HD15 vs. 3x RCA) nobody built a really small DAC dongle with YUV output yet.

[Taiyaki]

So I received the Shinybow and gave it a try. I was amazed by the results. Colors are splendid, nothing like the subdued colors I saw on the RGB modded FS120 or even on some old scart compatible tv's I tried some time ago. Of course I'm actually getting component here (or at least RGB through component), but it really makes a difference.

My old N64 csync cable make the N64 graphics pop like I've never seen before on a consumer tv. Guess I'm going to leave S-video behind after all. My only concern was with horizontal shifting of the H pos of the video through RGB, a problem that was particularly apparent on the BVM/PVM's but I haven't seen it happen here as of yet.

Also of note looks like the csync cable doesn't like my SNES, picture flies around. Weird cause I thought it used to work (1 chip Super Famicom). I have to use composite video, but I'm not sure how much a different this makes on crt's.

[ChuChu Flamingo]

Maybe you don't have the proper resistor on the CSYNC cable. Also one version of the 1 chip (1 chip 03) doesn't have CSYNC natively iirc.

[Taiyaki]

Maybe you don't have the proper resistor on the CSYNC cable. Also one version of the 1 chip (1 chip 03) doesn't have CSYNC natively iirc.

The cable seems to be alright since it works fine on the N64. I'll have to open it up to check but yes it might be a 03.

[maxtherabbit]

Maybe you don't have the proper resistor on the CSYNC cable. Also one version of the 1 chip (1 chip 03) doesn't have CSYNC natively iirc.

The cable seems to be alright since it works fine on the N64. I'll have to open it up to check but yes it might be a 03.

It being a 03 makes the most sense given the info provided

[Taiyaki]

So yes turns out to be a 03. According to Retro Access her new composite video cables result in an identical picture to csync, so I might get one to see.

"Select the multicore coax version for an identical visual experience to using a csync cable. Coax wire shields the signal enough to not produce video coupling effects (Crosshatching) when using composite video as sync."

By the way what does everyone do for the Dreamcast? Retro Access doesn't seem to sell Dreamcast scart cables. I hear some games like Skies of Arcadia won't output video through RGB, still I'm interested in trying RGB on the Dreamcast, it's the only console I never tried it on.

[maxtherabbit]

So yes turns out to be a 03. According to Retro Access her new composite video cables result in an identical picture to csync, so I might get one to see.

"Select the multicore coax version for an identical visual experience to using a csync cable. Coax wire shields the signal enough to not produce video coupling effects (Crosshatching) when using composite video as sync."

By the way what does everyone do for the Dreamcast? Retro Access doesn't seem to sell Dreamcast scart cables. I hear some games like Skies of Arcadia won't output video through RGB, still I'm interested in trying RGB on the Dreamcast, it's the only console I never tried it on.

You can restore csync output on the 03

https://www.retrorgb.com/snescsync.html#1chip-03

[Taiyaki]

You can restore csync output on the 03

https://www.retrorgb.com/snescsync.html#1chip-03

Gosh they make that seem so simple (not a modder, and I'm unskilled with the iron) but I might actually try that out.

[Hoagtech]

I used to use a JROK. It converts RGB to YUV or Component without changing the resolution.

It works with output from a PC, an arcade board or a console. It does a nice enough job if you use decent cables with proper grounding.

I used it mostly to connect a Groovy mame PC to an old Sony Trinitron which only had SVideo and composite ports:



The results were as good as the TV allowed (given it's age):

Im confused. How are you able to connect YUV component to only S-video or composite.

Do you have rainbow artifacts and color blending?

When you say original resolution. I assume you mean 240p. Are you getting a progressive image through S-video using the Jrok?