Aurora Dido Jr

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orange808
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Aurora Dido Jr

Post by orange808 »

Broke out the Dido Jr again today. It doesn't have a thread and I think it deserves one. It could be a useful budget machine for lots of gamers.

Random thoughts:

I did a Leo Bodnar test. Latency varied between one and two frames at any given time. I am guessing the machine always maintains a full buffered frame and the additional variable latency is related to some kind of frame rate conversion. Even with the Leo Bodnar and the Dido Jr both outputting "matching" 60Hz frame rates, it was there. The latency jumps to about two frames, drops to a single frame, and jumps back to about two frames. Worst case was about 33ms.

** The Dido Jr's claim to fame is plug and play tate mode rotation with nice even scanlines and it does the job pretty well. It's definitely the easiest and cheapest way to get it done right now. **

I'm not a huge fan of the 240p upscaling, but I have gotten it to accept 240p over composite and svideo. As far as I can tell, it handles it properly and doesn't try to deinterlace 240p at all. Unfortunately, I can't get it to accept 240p over RGB or component video. It refused to handle component, RGBHV, RGB composite sync, and RGBS 240p. It's too bad it won't take 240p over RGB.

I'll hook up the Atari 2600 later and throw a few torture tests at it. From what I can tell, the video inputs have some tolerance for VCR inputs and it might hold sync with some tricky games. Lots of video processors choke on Atari.

With svideo, N64 Resident Evil 2 is seamless and all transitions between screens are seamless. Same thing when switching between 480i and 240p with the SNES. Because the Dido Jr performs frame rate conversion, this isn't really shocking, but that's something it does. I wish it accepted 240p as RGB. :(

The Dido Jr also has programmable output. I decided to try downscaling 480p to 240p. It works well. Just add a custom resolution. The results are pretty good and my picky Sony TV has no issues accepting the output. If you're getting priced out of the Corio 2 and Emotia downscaling market, the Dido Jr does it, too. You can turn off the scaling filters for a reasonably sharp output.

Honestly, the frame rate conversion on the Dido Jr isn't terrible when compared lots of other frame rate conversion I've seen. I have a few machines where I can see nasty tearing. The Dido is much more subtle. I even had a very expensive Samsung television that used frame rate conversion and the results were much worse than the Dido Jr.

I didn't bother with deinterlacing. I remember being unimpressed before. It's not 4:4:4, so 480p upscaling isn't going to win much praise.

FWIW, it accepted OSSC linex2, x3, and x4 and outputs 1080p. Although, I doubt most people would use this one as an upscaler without using the rotation.

If you need a tate mode solution or you want 240p output, it might be worth getting one at the right price.
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Xer Xian
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by Xer Xian »

That's interesting. I knew this Dido thing could perform rotation but not that it would take custom timings too - this, along with legacy inputs, makes it a desirable machine indeed. I might snatch one down the line.. provided that it doesn't shoot up in price that is. In all honesty, I don't necessarily need it, but the same goes for a lot of stuff I've piled up in the years, so.. :lol:

Thanks for sharing your findings!
Lord of Pirates
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by Lord of Pirates »

Xer Xian wrote:That's interesting. I knew this Dido thing could perform rotation but not that it would take custom timings too - this, along with legacy inputs, makes it a desirable machine indeed. I might snatch one down the line.. provided that it doesn't shoot up in price that is. In all honesty, I don't necessarily need it, but the same goes for a lot of stuff I've piled up in the years, so.. :lol:

Thanks for sharing your findings!
As long as reddit/youtube don't declare it to be the ULTIMATE GRAIL OSSC COMBO the price should be safe :P. High latency should help curb interest too.

At Orange: How'd the Atari testing go?
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orange808
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by orange808 »

Lord of Pirates wrote:
Xer Xian wrote:That's interesting. I knew this Dido thing could perform rotation but not that it would take custom timings too - this, along with legacy inputs, makes it a desirable machine indeed. I might snatch one down the line.. provided that it doesn't shoot up in price that is. In all honesty, I don't necessarily need it, but the same goes for a lot of stuff I've piled up in the years, so.. :lol:

Thanks for sharing your findings!
As long as reddit/youtube don't declare it to be the ULTIMATE GRAIL OSSC COMBO the price should be safe :P. High latency should help curb interest too.

At Orange: How'd the Atari testing go?
Oops. I forgot. :)

I got distracted testing for chroma subsampling on my video processors.

I'll circle back to it and post it here.
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pedroTFP
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by pedroTFP »

Is the Dido ok to just rotate 90° analog sources (RBG-Scart/BNC signal from Saturn, PS2 or HAS Supergun) to analog CRT (consumer TV)?
Is there anything cheaper and plug and play?
No need for OSSC\FM compatibility.
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Fudoh
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by Fudoh »

Is the Dido ok to just rotate 90° analog sources (RBG-Scart/BNC signal from Saturn, PS2 or HAS Supergun)
no, see opening post above.
to analog CRT (consumer TV)?
You can't use a rotation unit in front of a 15khz TV without either going interlaced or losing lots of resolution.
pedroTFP
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by pedroTFP »

Thanks, I'll just rotate the screen then. ^^'
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GGA_HAN
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by GGA_HAN »

if anyone is looking for one of these, this looks like a decent price (29.99 + 18 ship):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/372746892306

I just scooped one myself, 4 left in stock
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kitty666cats
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by kitty666cats »

Hey orange, do you happen to know if the Dido LT is also capable of 480p>240p custom resolutions / is considered useful for getting your 'tate on? The price of those units looks to be in the same range

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/ ... hoto-video

Here's an interesting oldddd B&H pamphlet that talks about the Dido units, as well as some other brands that are quite familiar around these parts :)
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Fudoh
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by Fudoh »

Can't answer your question, but the "LT" units cannot rotate the picture. Only the Jr. and the much more expensive Pro units can.
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orange808
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by orange808 »

kitty666cats wrote:Hey orange, do you happen to know if the Dido LT is also capable of 480p>240p custom resolutions / is considered useful for getting your 'tate on? The price of those units looks to be in the same range

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/ ... hoto-video

Here's an interesting oldddd B&H pamphlet that talks about the Dido units, as well as some other brands that are quite familiar around these parts :)
I have never owned an LT unit, but I know for a fact that it will not do tate. I avoided the LT units when I was shopping for one because I knew it wouldn't rotate.

You would have to check the manual to see if the custom resolution option is included.
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kitty666cats
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by kitty666cats »

Thanks guys, tracking down a manual should be easy enough... I've dug up much more obscure manuals than that, haha :)

I'll have to keep an eye out and grab a Jr for cheap one of these days!
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kitty666cats
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by kitty666cats »

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/79237 ... =23#manual

Hmm, looks like custom resolutions are a go on the LT's as well. I may scoop one up soon, if so I will keep you folks updated.
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kitty666cats
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by kitty666cats »

I’ve got a Dido LT now, just used it with Sega Saturn 240p RGBHV (via Extron interface) -> UXGA 60Hz on my Mitsubishi DiamondTron… lovely, and not much lag at all (had no issue with pulling off specials in Street Fighter Zero 3!)

@orange808, I was curious what your specific timings/modelines were for 240p downscaling… and, if you have suggestions for 1920x1440p reduced blanking timings, I would love to try that as well (it is capable of displaying 1440p with reduced blanking, I just have yet to dial in the correct numbers lol)

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPfAPNVl0vH ... =copy_link

Here is a link to the 1600x1200p / UXGA Saturn :)
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orange808
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by orange808 »

kitty666cats wrote:I’ve got a Dido LT now, just used it with Sega Saturn 240p RGBHV (via Extron interface) -> UXGA 60Hz on my Mitsubishi DiamondTron… lovely, and not much lag at all (had no issue with pulling off specials in Street Fighter Zero 3!)

@orange808, I was curious what your specific timings/modelines were for 240p downscaling… and, if you have suggestions for 1920x1440p reduced blanking timings, I would love to try that as well (it is capable of displaying 1440p with reduced blanking, I just have yet to dial in the correct numbers lol)

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPfAPNVl0vH ... =copy_link

Here is a link to the 1600x1200p / UXGA Saturn :)
Not sure if that one will do 1440p. For 240p, start will 858x262 total and adjust your blanking after that.
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kitty666cats
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by kitty666cats »

orange808 wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:I’ve got a Dido LT now, just used it with Sega Saturn 240p RGBHV (via Extron interface) -> UXGA 60Hz on my Mitsubishi DiamondTron… lovely, and not much lag at all (had no issue with pulling off specials in Street Fighter Zero 3!)

@orange808, I was curious what your specific timings/modelines were for 240p downscaling… and, if you have suggestions for 1920x1440p reduced blanking timings, I would love to try that as well (it is capable of displaying 1440p with reduced blanking, I just have yet to dial in the correct numbers lol)

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPfAPNVl0vH ... =copy_link

Here is a link to the 1600x1200p / UXGA Saturn :)
Not sure if that one will do 1440p. For 240p, start will 858x262 total and adjust your blanking after that.
Thanks for the suggestion! Do you know what H Start and V Start are synonyms for? Front or back porch, or otherwise? I did get 1920x1440p to display but it was awkwardly cut-off as I wasn’t clear on what would be ideal for H/V total and H/V start - but got it to display at both 59.97 and 60Hz. I wonder what RT5X uses for 4:3 1440p…?
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kitty666cats
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by kitty666cats »

Also, that's interesting that the Dido Jr wouldn't accept any type of 240p RGB or component from you... I specifically sent the Dido LT RGBHV via an Extron interace, as I mentioned before. Initially, I sent RGBS (with TTL level sync from a LM1881) via a SCART2VGA into the Extron and then TTL RGBHV (via a 5BNC to DVI-A cable) to the Dido LT. The SCART2VGA (from https://www.retroupgrades.co.uk ) has the solder blob adjusted so that it takes 5V directly from the SCART cable. There was a noticeable amount of interference when displaying on my PC CRT. However, I also own a SCART2DVI (Insurrection Industries used to sell them) and those require external power, and in addition to the sync stripper that you can switch on/off (just like the SCART2VGA), they also have a THS7374 LPF that you can switch on/off. Unsurprisingly, the LPF made the image nice and clear with no wobbly mess lingering in the background!

Got the thing brand new for a total of $55 shipped, and I am quite happy with it! Low enough lag that I could easily play 1600x1200p 60Hz Street Fighter Zero 3 and pull off any & all specials just as consistently as I would be able to via a 15kHz CRT, or via GBS Control / OSSC / et al

Will definitely report back in RE: 240p downscaling, just still need to figure out what 'H Start' and 'V Start' are in reference to for video timings (if that is supposed to mean front porch, back porch, or something else regarding horizontal and vertical). Once I smarten up and learn modelines a tad better, I have no doubts that 1920x1440p will be a go. Just need to figure out what the H Total, V Total, H Start & V Start should be set to. And see if both 59.97 + 60Hz are fine with the custom 4:3 1440p setting.
Last edited by kitty666cats on Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kitty666cats
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by kitty666cats »

Image

Image

Didn’t get the timings all perfectly dialed-in (and don’t particularly care to, I have a GBSC unit - just wanted to find this out), but can now confirm the Dido LT can indeed downscale to 240p / accepts 240p RGBHV input / properly *processes* 240p input / is also capable of outputting 1920x1440p 60Hz with reduced blanking (don’t yet have a photo of that, but I did have it displaying nice and stable last night… just need to get the timings down so less of the image is cut-off!)

Didn’t measure the lag, but as I mentioned in a previous post, had no trouble doing any specials in SF Alpha 3… I assume the lag is exactly the same as the Dido Jr. Unfortunately I got the last cheapo unit on eBay, but hopefully more pop up soon! Definitely worth a gander if anyone comes across one for a reasonable price :)

@orange808 , when you find the time you should take another crack at feeding the Jr some 240p RGBHV! I would assume that the Jr should accept it if the LT does

BTW, all this testing was specifically done with a NTSC-J RG-JX2 V-Saturn
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orange808
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by orange808 »

The Dido machines are probably most useful now if you chain multiple units to drive a video wall. My Dido Jrs are in storage and I don't have any immediate use for them, so I can't test anything right now.
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kitty666cats
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by kitty666cats »

Mannnn, I love this thing. Has anyone here messed with other video processors that allow custom resolutions? I wouldn't be surprised if there are PLENTY out there that can downscale to 240p - I know we are finally in an era where doing so is no longer an obscene amount of $$$, but it's always fun to see lesser-known gear from the past getting a second look :)

I primarily use this thing for upscaling PS2 (chained with a GBScontrol unit, I actually send the windowed 1080p output from GBSC into the Dido LT and then turn that into 1024x768p, the highest 60Hz 4:3 res my presentation monitor can handle)

https://www.instagram.com/p/CRK8NWtlRl3/

^ there is a video of that chain in action, heh
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kitty666cats
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by kitty666cats »

https://www.markertek.com/Attachments/M ... Manual.pdf

According to page 36, it can output up to 91.1kHz (and perhaps a tad bit higher). I’ve been meaning to dig this out sometime soon and see where it *actually* “tops out”.

Another feature I hadn’t noticed before is diagonal interpolation. Not that it is anything groundbreaking, but it is a nice touch. I forget, does the OSSC implement such a thing? I think I remember seeing the RT5X does, but as far as I remember the OSSC does not. I’m not even sure if that’s something that line multipliers “do” or if that is a feature moreso relegated to full-on ‘scalers/processors’…

Seems like, save for the obvious lack of scanlines as it’s not at all for gaming, these would be perfect for people who wanted 540p on 4:3 HDCRTs. Obviously the RT5X has made these a pretty moot point, but the versatility of the custom resolutions is really nice on these! Still absolutely frustrating that they won’t accept RGBS in, but are fine with RGsB/RGBHV/Component
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Re: Aurora Dido Jr

Post by ChronoLe »

First off, want to thank Kitty for the help with the power supply! I was able to try out the untested Dido Jr. I received last week. It did work with my Sega Saturn, but I ended up doing a factory reset on the unit, and I can't seem to get anything to output correctly. I either get a blue or green screen now.

I'm super new to video scalers of this nature, so hoping someone can help guide me in the right direction. I imagine it might be a signal timing issue. Here is my current chain, keep in mind the Saturn did display until I pressed factory reset on the Dido.

Sega Saturn Jp 21 pin rgb cable ---> Xrgb-2
Xrgb-2 ----> Dido Jr via VGA to DVI-A adapter
Dido Jr ----> Sony 40xbr800 consumer hdcrt via DVI-D cable

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Current settings on the menus that I think are relevant.
Input Setup
SVID -Auto
DVI -Auto
Rgb -Auto
Rgb/yprpb - rgb+HV

Output Setup
Output 480p 60Hz
Rgb output mode -rgb+HV
Hdcp output -auto

Signal Timing
Vga 60Hz
Format type Video
H Resolution 640
V Resolution 480
V Frequency 60
H Total 800
V Total 525
H start 48
V start 33
H polarity Negative
V Polarity Negative
Mode Progressive
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