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 Post subject: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:39 am 



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 212
I'm looking to get a 24" to 27" consumer CRT with component input but because of how old these CRTs are getting, it is only a matter of time before something goes wrong. I want to have a tune up done on the CRT I get. This would include recapping and any other basic service that would help restore the picture and extend the longevity of the TV. Does anyone know how much this would cost at a typical TV repair center that repairs CRTs? I have gone through a number of CRTs in recent years and had to get rid of them because they often had black crush issues, issues with the screen being too bright (even if I changed picture settings) and sometimes geometry issues. At this point, I just want to get a consumer CRT, have it fixed and be done with it instead of spending an endless amount of time finding a CRT without these issues.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:08 am 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 451
It sounds to me like what you want is a brand new crt.

The problem is, and maybe someone more experienced can correct me if I'm mistaken, but replacing components in a crt isn't like replacing components in a console, there is more going on in the tv than just the capacitors. If you have an old tv that has seen tons and tons of use replacing the capacitors transistors etc, and checking the chips is not going to keep the tube itself from having issues. Also how often does one recap consoles? I don't think many people have ever done it (usually when one cap goes bad they just replace that), even on consoles that are over 25 years old. It's sort of unusual that one has to go over those in my experience, and I've mostly seen it done for handhelds or the likes where there aren't as many parts to replace and sometimes doing so can provide some improvements (such as in audio).

As for the cost it's hard to say but I would be surprised if it would cost you less than 200 dollars at the very least, also you'd have to find a seasoned technician as most now a days no longer will work on crt's.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:24 am 



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 212
A new CRT would be nice but they are very hard to come by. I think it would be worth trying to find a technician willing to work on my CRT because if I could find one with a lot of experience repairing CRTs, they might still be able to help me.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:29 am 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 451
Most of the technicians I know will just use their tools to check all components and will only replace what they think is of concern and will call it done. You'll have to find a technician who is willing to follow your instructions and just do something that may go against their usual practices.

You can still find new crt's but yes it's incredibly hard. It might require driving out far from where you live to pick one up. Otherwise your other best bet is to find crt's that were used in guest rooms or as secondary/third tv's in houses. Any tv that was used as a main tv in a family house is undoubtedly going to have had a lot of wear in contrast to those.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:52 pm 


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Joined: 31 Jul 2017
Posts: 79
Most technicians with extensive experience on CRT displays are dead or retired at this point. Your best option, though it may be the least attractive, is to read and research the subject to eventually work on them yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:19 pm 


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Location: Québec City
Taiyaki wrote:
It sounds to me like what you want is a brand new crt.

The tubes in a NOS crt will be fresh, sure. But the electrolytic caps in it will need just as much attention, as they would on a well-worned set (age does a number on those, regardless of usage). So that doesn't exactly solve the problem


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:18 pm 



Joined: 06 Mar 2017
Posts: 86
Like Bratwurst pointed out, with any obsolete technology, it would be best to just familiarize yourself with its inner workings. Barring that, your best bet is to find some guy relatively near you, like a retired technician, who still likes to work on crt's as a hobby. I know some tv repair companies in my neighborhood that still offer repair services for crt tv's. But considering the prices they charge, it's just not worth it.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:23 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 978
Bratwurst wrote:
Most technicians with extensive experience on CRT displays are dead or retired at this point. Your best option, though it may be the least attractive, is to read and research the subject to eventually work on them yourself.

At the beginning of the year, I emailed a local business that advertises servicing industrial CRTs to see if they'd service my KV-27FV310. They haven't gotten back to me. :P


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:19 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 451
FinalBaton wrote:
Taiyaki wrote:
It sounds to me like what you want is a brand new crt.

The tubes in a NOS crt will be fresh, sure. But the electrolytic caps in it will need just as much attention, as they would on a well-worned set (age does a number on those, regardless of usage). So that doesn't exactly solve the problem

I agree, but storage conditions play a role too. If anything looks off best replace it, but if everything is looking fine on the inside there's no need to go around replacing stuff needlessly, at least in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:04 am 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 351
Brad251 wrote:
A new CRT would be nice but they are very hard to come by. I think it would be worth trying to find a technician willing to work on my CRT because if I could find one with a lot of experience repairing CRTs, they might still be able to help me.



Not that hard. You go to the Happ website and order a 27" crt arcade monitor.

If having access to a CRT display for the long term is important, it makes more sense to snap up one of the last new ones instead of trying to service a 20-30 year old tv.

While crt tv's are still being given away on Craigslist, I would pick up a few spares for the garage too.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:39 pm 


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Posts: 470
FinalBaton wrote:
Taiyaki wrote:
It sounds to me like what you want is a brand new crt.

The tubes in a NOS crt will be fresh, sure. But the electrolytic caps in it will need just as much attention, as they would on a well-worned set (age does a number on those, regardless of usage). So that doesn't exactly solve the problem

it's primarily heat and hours of usage that kills electrolytic caps


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:08 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 978
maxtherabbit wrote:
FinalBaton wrote:
Taiyaki wrote:
It sounds to me like what you want is a brand new crt.

The tubes in a NOS crt will be fresh, sure. But the electrolytic caps in it will need just as much attention, as they would on a well-worned set (age does a number on those, regardless of usage). So that doesn't exactly solve the problem

it's primarily heat and hours of usage that kills electrolytic caps

That probably explains why the caps on a motherboard I've had since 1999 that's been unplugged for ~15 years still look brand new.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:17 pm 


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Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 3321
Location: Québec City
maxtherabbit wrote:
it's primarily heat and hours of usage that kills electrolytic caps

Really? I'm skeptical of this. I've always heard/read that electrolityc caps have a shelf life of 30 years or so(sometime longer, sometime shorter) and then start leaking, regardless of if in use or not.

For example, there are devices that are especially problematic in this regard because they used cheap caps. And people who acquire those are well warned to perform a recap as soon as they acquire one. One example is the Pioneer Laser Active and it's pak modules. I doubt the Laseractive units have seen much use... yet they're ticking time-bombs, leak-wise(all of them started leaking by this point. Even NOS units).
a NOS PC Engine/CoreGrafx/TurboDuo will also need a recap ASAP

I'm pretty sure any say, 40 year old piece of electronic gear, even NOS, will need a recap. There's a reason why all old audio gear perform better when coming out of the tech for a service


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:13 pm 


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Joined: 05 Mar 2018
Posts: 470
FinalBaton wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
it's primarily heat and hours of usage that kills electrolytic caps

Really? I'm skeptical of this. I've always heard/read that electrolityc caps have a shelf life of 30 years or so(sometime longer, sometime shorter) and then start leaking, regardless of if in use or not.

For example, there are devices that are especially problematic in this regard because they used cheap caps. And people who acquire those are well warned to perform a recap as soon as they acquire one. One example is the Pioneer Laser Active and it's pak modules. I doubt the Laseractive units have seen much use... yet they're ticking time-bombs, leak-wise(all of them started leaking by this point. Even NOS units).
a NOS PC Engine/CoreGrafx/TurboDuo will also need a recap ASAP

I'm pretty sure any say, 40 year old piece of electronic gear, even NOS, will need a recap. There's a reason why all old audio gear perform better when coming out of the tech for a service

you're not entirely wrong - shit-tier quality electros can fail simply from (unused) time, but that is the exception not the rule


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:27 pm 


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Joined: 09 Jul 2017
Posts: 858
Location: Outer Heaven
Makinx wrote:
Like Bratwurst pointed out, with any obsolete technology, it would be best to just familiarize yourself with its inner workings. Barring that, your best bet is to find some guy relatively near you, like a retired technician, who still likes to work on crt's as a hobby. I know some tv repair companies in my neighborhood that still offer repair services for crt tv's. But considering the prices they charge, it's just not worth it.


Even then you also have to hope they have a way to get the replacement parts you need. When I was getting my power amp fixed I checked the tv repair place next door and the guy (who had to be over 60) was willing to repair CRTs still but couldn't parts for my old Diamondtron monitor.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:37 am 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 451
Yes, if the problem, is a chip or a board then it's really up to availability when ordering the parts. Which is why it can be a good idea to stock multiple working tv's of the same model once you've found your favorite crt (assuming such a thing is possible).

I'm also a skeptic on the whole capacitors going bad on their own thing. I just never really saw it happen is all. The PC Engine, PCE GT etc was a different issue that was also a flaw by design, I personally had no problems with them though.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:54 am 



Joined: 06 Mar 2017
Posts: 86
Taiyaki wrote:
Yes, if the problem, is a chip or a board then it's really up to availability when ordering the parts. Which is why it can be a good idea to stock multiple working tv's of the same model once you've found your favorite crt (assuming such a thing is possible).

I'm also a skeptic on the whole capacitors going bad on their own thing. I just never really saw it happen is all. The PC Engine, PCE GT etc was a different issue that was also a flaw by design, I personally had no problems with them though.


I have an old motherboard from 1999 which has been sitting on a shelf for the past 15 years. It worked fine when I last used it but now some caps have gone bad and it won't work anymore. But other than that one motherboard I've never experienced this.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:51 pm 



Joined: 22 Dec 2010
Posts: 204
I was also under the impression that electrolytic caps have a shelf life even if not used, maybe even more so if not used. It isn't just leakage that can be a problem, caps can also dry out over time.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:45 pm 


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Joined: 12 Aug 2017
Posts: 352
Location: Europistan
FinalBaton wrote:
a NOS PC Engine/CoreGrafx/TurboDuo will also need a recap ASAP


I've heard that some models, like the Duo & Duo R are virtually guaranteed to have bad caps, but supposedly the Duo Rx and CoreGrafx 1&2 and even the original white PCE are solid. Or at least as solid as a system pushing 30 years can be.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:04 am 



Joined: 17 Mar 2018
Posts: 17
I have talked to a TV service technician here in Germany, in regards to my PGM 2950E. He said that, because it is so labour-intensive to just disassemble the set and store the parts etc., they will start at 50 to 70€ as a baseline. After that, I guess you'd get billed by the hour, plus cost for parts.
That is, if they are willing to work on the set at all. With my specific monitor, he said that chances were slim as he was not optimistic that anybody would have a service manual for it.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:58 pm 


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Posts: 858
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SuperSpongo wrote:
I have talked to a TV service technician here in Germany, in regards to my PGM 2950E. He said that, because it is so labour-intensive to just disassemble the set and store the parts etc., they will start at 50 to 70€ as a baseline. After that, I guess you'd get billed by the hour, plus cost for parts.
That is, if they are willing to work on the set at all. With my specific monitor, he said that chances were slim as he was not optimistic that anybody would have a service manual for it.


Different places have different policies but my experience has been most places will apply base/inspection fees to the work if you have the work done there. It would be pretty unfortunate to have to pay the fee and all the parts + labor.

I'd bet you could find the service manual online.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:27 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 451
Yes getting the service manual can vary from easy to hard, but even when it's hard normally technicians have access to a bank of files and they can get the service manual for practically any given tv sold in that region for a small fee (which they probably pass over to the customer).


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:06 pm 



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 479
Location: Sydney, Australia
maxtherabbit wrote:
FinalBaton wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
it's primarily heat and hours of usage that kills electrolytic caps

Really? I'm skeptical of this. I've always heard/read that electrolityc caps have a shelf life of 30 years or so(sometime longer, sometime shorter) and then start leaking, regardless of if in use or not.

For example, there are devices that are especially problematic in this regard because they used cheap caps. And people who acquire those are well warned to perform a recap as soon as they acquire one. One example is the Pioneer Laser Active and it's pak modules. I doubt the Laseractive units have seen much use... yet they're ticking time-bombs, leak-wise(all of them started leaking by this point. Even NOS units).
a NOS PC Engine/CoreGrafx/TurboDuo will also need a recap ASAP

I'm pretty sure any say, 40 year old piece of electronic gear, even NOS, will need a recap. There's a reason why all old audio gear perform better when coming out of the tech for a service

you're not entirely wrong - shit-tier quality electros can fail simply from (unused) time, but that is the exception not the rule


The lifespan of aluminium electrolytic caps is well documented. These caps degrade with temperature over time so the most important factors for determining lifespan are temperature, time, and the capacitor's temperature rating. Caps are usually given ratings like 10000 hours at 85°c or 10000 hours at 105°c. The lower the temperature, the longer they last. The ambient storage and operating temperatures can be measured, but there an additional complication which is in some applications (switching power supplies) the capacitor will generate heat internally due the high ripple current. In these applications a low loss (low ESR usually) is required to keep the internal heat generated to a minimum and prolong its life.

The general guideline that Rubycon gives is that the lifetime doubles as the temperature decreases by 10ºC. In theory you could prolong the life of the caps in the equipment by keeping the storage temperature reasonably low. In practice I think it also helps to keep equipment away from extreme cold and to power it for a little while every year.

(Not counting electrolyte failure like the motherboards from the 2000s and SMT electros from the 1990s)


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:13 pm 


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Location: Québec City
viletim wrote:
The lifespan of aluminium electrolytic caps is well documented. These caps degrade with temperature over time so the most important factors for determining lifespan are temperature, time, and the capacitor's temperature rating. Caps are usually given ratings like 10000 hours at 85°c or 10000 hours at 105°c. The lower the temperature, the longer they last. The ambient storage and operating temperatures can be measured, but there an additional complication which is in some applications (switching power supplies) the capacitor will generate heat internally due the high ripple current. In these applications a low loss (low ESR usually) is required to keep the internal heat generated to a minimum and prolong its life.

The general guideline that Rubycon gives is that the lifetime doubles as the temperature decreases by 10ºC. In theory you could prolong the life of the caps in the equipment by keeping the storage temperature reasonably low. In practice I think it also helps to keep equipment away from extreme cold and to power it for a little while every year.

(Not counting electrolyte failure like the motherboards from the 2000s and SMT electros from the 1990s)

Great stuff, thanks for giving us the lowdown Tim!


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:19 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 451
Yes, thank you Tim. That was outstanding. :)


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:41 am 



Joined: 17 Mar 2018
Posts: 17
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
SuperSpongo wrote:

I'd bet you could find the service manual online.


Tried that, but no luck.
I managed to repair it without the service manual, but I'd love to have it.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would it cost to get consumer CRT serviced?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:01 pm 



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 192
SuperSpongo wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
SuperSpongo wrote:

I'd bet you could find the service manual online.


Tried that, but no luck.
I managed to repair it without the service manual, but I'd love to have it.


Hey SuperSpongo,

Pretty certain that I have some excerpts from the service manual (including the separate adjustment manual) for the PGM-2950 monitor. From memory, I *think* that sections of the PGM-2950 service manual are shared with the service manual of the PVM-2950. If you want a copy of it, perhaps send me a PM as a reminder and I can have a look for it when I am home.


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