Triad Replacement PSU Links

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xthechar
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by xthechar »

I think the USA SNES uses a 2.5mm center-positive barrel connector. Would this work without the need for any adapters? https://www.digikey.com/products/en/pow ... V=-6|63332

Also, I've heard that the voltage that the USA SNES can take can be as low as 6V, and that a lower voltage results in less heat generated. Would this provide that outcome? https://www.digikey.com/products/en/pow ... V=-5|54624
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Link83
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by Link83 »

xthechar wrote:I think the USA SNES uses a 2.5mm center-positive barrel connector. Would this work without the need for any adapters? https://www.digikey.com/products/en/pow ... V=-6|63332

Also, I've heard that the voltage that the USA SNES can take can be as low as 6V, and that a lower voltage results in less heat generated. Would this provide that outcome? https://www.digikey.com/products/en/pow ... V=-5|54624
The USA SNES uses a rather unique barrel plug which measures approx 7.4mm with a centre pin, its nothing like the standard 2.5mm DC barrel plugs which the NES uses.

I believe the 7805 can technically work with lower voltages, but I wouldnt recommend 6V as the 7805 may start struggling as explained here:-
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/a/148646
I would probably go with 7.5V if you really wanted to reduce heat, but personally I dont think its worth it and would suggest sticking with the standard 9V.
xthechar
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by xthechar »

That link is perfect for providing the info I was curious about, thanks for linking it and for the quick reply. About the barrel size, not sure why I thought it was 2.5mm, must be misremembering something.
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FBX
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by FBX »

OP updated with a section for wiring up an all model 2 + 32X setup for North Americans.
Dochartaigh
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by Dochartaigh »

Kinda random, but for you retro computer gamers the TG16 power brick seems to works perfectly for a Roland MT-32 MIDI machine.
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FBX
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by FBX »

OP updated with solutions for Turbo DUO, Super Grafx, and Super CDROM2.
xthechar wrote:That link is perfect for providing the info I was curious about, thanks for linking it and for the quick reply. About the barrel size, not sure why I thought it was 2.5mm, must be misremembering something.
This was covered in the 2nd entry of the OP.
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Rotanibor
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by Rotanibor »

Did anyone ever end up testing out this one with the Twin Famicom?
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/ ... ND/6600150

Also if I'm just hooking it up to the Genesis 1 alone, no 32X or Sega CD included, this one should work fine yeah?
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/ ... D/3094952/

(edit: had posted the 9v PSU for Twin Famicom by mistake. Replaced the link with the 7.5v version)
Last edited by Rotanibor on Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ApolloBoy
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by ApolloBoy »

Dochartaigh wrote:Kinda random, but for you retro computer gamers the TG16 power brick seems to works perfectly for a Roland MT-32 MIDI machine.
Pretty much every Boss effect pedal uses the same type of power supply too (9V DC tip negative).
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FBX
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by FBX »

FBX wrote:
copy wrote: You don't have to rely on a datasheet for the PWR+. HD Retrovision did their own direct oscilloscope testing on it, and the good results they got are the reason they recommend it. I've heard of no equivalent independent verification of the Triads.
Yes I already know this. However, even HD Retrovision will tell you that it's REALLY nice to have actual datasheet documentation from the manufacturer. As such, I want to know the max peak-to-peak ripple/noise rating of PWR+ adapters, and the company simply doesn't post those ratings as far as I can tell. On the Triads, you don't need to test them for ripple because the company already provides those ratings in the datasheet.
Just an update on this argument:

Some months back, I did an oscilloscope measurement of the Power+ and the Triad, and the Power+ was considerably more noisy. HD Retrovision looked into it and confirmed my observations from my scope. Seems Power+ tanked into crap tech to save money. So you definitely want to switch to Triad if you bought one recently.

Triad on the test resistor I set up showing a smooth 380mV peak to peak:

Image

PWR+ showing horrible spikes that reach 1.6 VOLTS peak to peak:

Image
copy
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by copy »

Those are compelling scope results, FBX.

Also, I must amend my observation from earlier. As I later experimented further, I realized the minor waviness I saw in the SNES image was not exclusive to the Triad, but was in fact also present with both the OEM linear supply and the PWR+. I believe this waviness was due to me using the OSSC's Generic 4:3 mode, and must be normal because of the nature of the full horizontal sampling.

I have since switched to mainly using Triads, and have been happy with their performance.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by maxtherabbit »

Both of those psus look like ass on the scope compared to the old baby-AT power supplies I've been tinkering with this week. Kinda sad to see a unmaintained 90s SMPS outperforming brand new hardware
Sargon
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by Sargon »

What would you recommend for Atari Jaguar + CD?

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copy
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by copy »

Sargon wrote:What would you recommend for Atari Jaguar + CD?
This splitter (or equivalent) plus this Triad (WSU090-3500-R) will cover you.
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FBX
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by FBX »

The original post as been moved to a more user-friendly sectioned web page. I've also added in OEM PSU specs and part numbers as a reference guide. Still plenty to add to it, but the main core is done:

http://www.firebrandx.com/triads.html

Also we recently discussed on Discord for the Atari Jaguar: The "Jag2SNES" adapter should not be used. It's very poorly designed, and only accidentally happens to work with the OEM PSU (due to that PSU over-volting the Jaguar's 9V output pin that normally doesn't supply enough power to the 7805 in the Jag2SNES). When you use a modern supply like a Triad on the Jaguar, it sends a fixed voltage at the correct rating, causing stages in "Bubsy" to have a distorted image. This is because the 9V output pin has a 100 Ohm resistor on it, and the Jag2SNES regulator is only getting about 5V when it needs a minimum of 7V. Putting a 220uF smoothing cap on the regulator does fix Bubsy, but the HD-Retrovision cables are only barely functional. The power getting to them is a mess, so the Jag2SNES adapter is NOT recommended by HD-Retrovision.
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FBX
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by FBX »

maxtherabbit wrote:Both of those psus look like ass on the scope compared to the old baby-AT power supplies I've been tinkering with this week. Kinda sad to see a unmaintained 90s SMPS outperforming brand new hardware
Those results were relative to the testing rig I used, but still demonstrated how much noisier the new PWR+ supplies are. The official specs are as follows in a 9V 2A Triad for example:

WSU090-2000 Electrical Specifications (@25C)

Input Voltage rating: 100-240VAC, 50-60Hz2.
Input Voltage range: 90-264VAC3.
Input current: <0.5A(RMS) @ 115VAC* 4.
Max Inrush Current: <80A peak @ 115VAC (Cold start)
Output Voltage: 9VDC
Output Current: 2.0A
Regulation (line & load): ±5%
Ripple & Noise: 150mVpk-pk Max
No load power (stand by): <100mW
Average Efficiency: ≥85.00%. Meets minimum level VI efficiency.

So if your baby-AT power supplies are switch-mode and can beat those stats, all the more power to you (no pun intended).
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by maxtherabbit »

Yeah the triad is clearly much better than the pwr+. It was just fresh in my mind how much ripple I observed in the old supplies, and took the opportunity to point out how much better performance you can get out of a full fledged PSU vs a wall wart.
makar1
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by makar1 »

Have any other Triad WSX owners here received a notification email about a design update to comply with the new UL/IEC/EN 62368 standard? I assume this update means the performance of the PSU would have to be re-evaluated.
PaTaito
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by PaTaito »

blackgaard wrote:Just want to throw another option out there: ifi iPower

Yes, it's a $50 wall-wart, and certainly doesn't look like anything special - but it makes some bold claims of 1uV of ripple by using Active Noise Cancellation (in much the same way it is done with audio, but on power). Snake oil? I thought so too, especially because the word "audiophile" is present. Then I found some tests that show 10.31uV @ 1A, and 12.22uV @ 2A. Am I wrong in thinking this is pretty much unheard of?

I decided to buy one for the purpose of having something on-hand that I can pretty much consider "reference", to eliminate power as a source of noise (hopefully). Sure it's a bit on the pricey side, but I'll also be powering everything that's 9V on it, except of course the thirsty Sega tower... if someone can confirm the Triads are still good, one of those should do for the CD and 32X.
Noticed this while browsing amazon(uk) and i'm quite interested as ifi are usually quality. Did you end up getting hold of this and was it any good? Anyone done any further testing?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01 ... Z1BC&psc=1

Someone in the reviews section mentioned he uses the 15v model on his topping dx3 pro headphone dac/amp and noticed an improvement, so i'm hoping this would also translate over to my snes/aes which need a new supply.
naz
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by naz »

I recently got a 32x to go with Model 1 Genesis (no Sega CD). From Firebrandx site I can see this specs:

Model 1: 9V 1.2A C-
32x: 10V 850mA C+

I would like to use my current 2.5A power supply (now powering just my M1) to power both. The setup will be like this:

Triad 9V 2.5A C- to Dual Barrel splitter
1st end directly to Genesis Model 1
2nd end to polarity reverser to barrel adapter to 32x

is the above correct or do I need the larger 3.5A power supply??
fernan1234
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by fernan1234 »

naz wrote:is the above correct or do I need the larger 3.5A power supply??
No the 2.5A should be fine, you just need more amps if you have the full tower of power with the CD unit.
lechu
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by lechu »

I don't know if this has been answered yet, but is there one that's right for the MiSTer? I just want a backup.
Dochartaigh
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by Dochartaigh »

Also one for the Analogue NT mini Noir!

People complain about the cheap power supply they came with all the time (and the replacement one people are recommending is something stupid like $50... which I think is now almost $70 last I read...).
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Lawfer
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by Lawfer »

Dochartaigh wrote:People complain about the cheap power supply they came with all the time (and the replacement one people are recommending is something stupid like $50... which I think is now almost $70 last I read...).
Which model is it?
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FBX
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by FBX »

lechu wrote:I don't know if this has been answered yet, but is there one that's right for the MiSTer? I just want a backup.
I'm using this and it works great (will update my web site soon with the new info): https://www.digikey.com/en/products/det ... 00/3094911

It's in combination with this inline power switch and splitter: https://misteraddons.com/products/in-line-power-switch
Dochartaigh wrote:Also one for the Analogue NT mini Noir!

People complain about the cheap power supply they came with all the time (and the replacement one people are recommending is something stupid like $50... which I think is now almost $70 last I read...).
It's going to require a barrel shave since the Triads use thick shielding and the recessed socket on the Noir is too small for them. I'm looking to buy this one to try out with a barrel shave:

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/det ... 13/6600159
Lawfer wrote: Which model is it?
It's a Chinese "Merryking". Very dinky piece of crap.


-FBX
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Lawfer
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by Lawfer »

FBX wrote:It's a Chinese "Merryking". Very dinky piece of crap.
Thank you, interesting, for a product with such a premium price like this they could at least have had the decency of including a better quality PSU, at this point you are just paying 500 for the aluminium case since a MiSTer FPGA can play NES and more for less of that price.
Dochartaigh
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by Dochartaigh »

FBX wrote:
Dochartaigh wrote:Also one for the Analogue NT mini Noir!

People complain about the cheap power supply they came with all the time (and the replacement one people are recommending is something stupid like $50... which I think is now almost $70 last I read...).
It's going to require a barrel shave since the Triads use thick shielding and the recessed socket on the Noir is too small for them. I'm looking to buy this one to try out with a barrel shave:

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/det ... 13/6600159
Sorry, I forgot to update. Got this 1.5amp one they recommended on the Analogue FB group. People say it's better than the 1.0 amp since some accessories can pull more power or something like that. Just installed it and the barrel seems to slip right in perfectly. Noir booted right up - no further testing done.

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/det ... EQF0C%2BQA
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RuffNEC
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by RuffNEC »

edit
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CommonGround
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by CommonGround »

FBX first I just wanted to thankyou for your contributions to the community, the PSU list you're maintaining is very useful and I ended up purchasing appropriate triad psu's for both Genesis 2 and super famicom consoles. I had been searching for equivalent mean well supplies in the past but ended up going with the triads as they now seem to have a following in the community.

I have yet had the time to assess the ripple and noise with my scope however I do plan to do so in the future and compare as many after market Psu's to official adapters.

My question specifically is regarding your testing methodology for ripple and noise that you posted screenshots of. I've been trying to come up with the least expensive, yet accurate assessment of PSU ripple for retro consoles. This video on eev blog demonstrates just how difficult it can be to get accurate ripple and noise measurements on a scope https://youtu.be/Edel3eduRj4 hence why I am curious as to your particular testing methods.

If and when I get the chance to test some psu's down the track I'll be sure to post to this thread as it seems like the best place to do so currently.
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Lopenator
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by Lopenator »

Is the triad psu still considered a good choice? How about even over OEM? I have both and can't decide what I should use. I notice my SNES runs cooler when I use the Triad as opposed to when I use my OEM recapped PSU. What psu do you use?
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NewSchoolBoxer
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Re: Triad Replacement PSU Links

Post by NewSchoolBoxer »

Lopenator wrote:Is the triad psu still considered a good choice? How about even over OEM? I have both and can't decide what I should use. I notice my SNES runs cooler when I use the Triad as opposed to when I use my OEM recapped PSU. What psu do you use?
Thank you, like I'm sure Triad is a good PSU and FirebrandX tested vs the weak sauce PWR+ in 2020 but it's been a while. Let's try to have more than one recommended PSU. I understand AC to DC conversion, noise ripple calcs and why inrush current is bad but I'm not an expert here and could use advice on testing.

I did basic search on Mouser for US or universal power supply, 7.5V or 9V + 1-3A output, AC adapter sorted low to high price. Lab bench ones probably better but Average Joe wants plug and play replacement yes?
Edit Note: 1.3A-1.6A max current is irrelevant unless a console needs more than or just under the rated max. Console must have correct center positive or negative polarity. I have passive adapter to swap + to - and see listed for < $3.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9V Triad WSU090-1300-R current recommendation at cheap $8.85.
Also including 7.5V Triad WSU075-1500-R here, which has identical specs except for lower output voltage of 7.5V and greater max output current of 1.5A. Is cheapest PSU listed at $8.55.
Center NEGATIVE
Spoiler
-Universal input aka 100-240VAC, 50-60Hz
-Input current: <0.35A(RMS) @ 115VAC
-Max Inrush Current: <60A peak @ 115VAC (Cold start)
-Output Voltage: 7.5VDC
-Output Current: 1.3A
-Regulation (line & load): ±5%
-Ripple & Noise: 150mVpk-pk Max
-No load power (stand by): <100mW
-Average Efficiency: ≥82.61%. Meets minimum level VI efficiency.
-Leakage Current: <0.25mA (264VAC)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First notable PSU I found was 7.5V Phihong PSAC12R-075-R at $10.83 with 128 in stock.
Center POSITIVE
Spoiler
-Universal input
-Input current: 0.5A max (RMS) @ 120VAC, 0.25A max (RMS) @ 230VAC
-Max Inrush Current: <30A @ 120VAC, <60A @ 230 VAC, both @25℃ (Cold start)
-Output Voltage: 7.5VDC
-Output Current: 1.6A
-Regulation (line & load): ±5%
-Ripple & Noise: 100mV-pk Max
-No load power (stand by): 46mW @ 116Vac and 75mW at @ 230Vac
-Average Efficiency: 85.49% @ 115VAC and 84.47% @ 230VAC. Meets minimum level VI efficiency.
-Leakage Current: 0.25mA max
Comparing to 7.5V Triad, Phihong has worse input current, tied in leakage current and regulation accuracy and superior in everything else. Dropping from 150mVp-p to 100 is huge. For those who don't know, ripple voltage is AC noise that devices taking DC can't use. Passes through as heat and ages capacitors faster and, if significant enough, passes into video output to cause visible noise waves. I don't think worse input current is important when Phihong is more efficient.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next I found the 9V Cincon TRE15090 at $10.99 with 64 in stock.
Center POSITIVE
Spoiler
-Universal input
-Input current: 0.5A max (RMS)
-Max Inrush Current: 50A @ 25℃ 240VAC (Cold start)
-Output Voltage: 9VDC
-Output Current: 1.4A
-Regulation (line): ±1%, (load): ±2%
-Ripple & Noise: 90mVpk-pk Max
-No load power (stand by): <75mW
-Average Efficiency: 83.5%. Meets minimum level VI efficiency.
-Leakage Current: 0.25mA max
Has lowest ripple voltage of all but worse efficiency than Phihong, which I think are the main things we care about. Far superior line and load regulation at 1/2% vs 5%, with load regulation being far more important imo. This means Cincon gives more consistent output voltage when load changes. Changing load is from console using more power to display brighter colors, powering Game Genie, going from 480i to 480p, powering HDRetrovision cable or sync stripper off its +5V line, etc. Specifically, the power need increasing or decreasing while playing the game due to the impedance changing.

Beats 9V Triad in every respect except tie in leakage current and worse input current, which again, I don't think is important when Cincon is more efficient with less inrush current.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Feeding console 9V vs 7.5V, we could debate. 9V is much more standardized but I can agree on typical console linear voltage regulator that 9V dissipates much more heat than 7.5V input. 9V is still an improvement over stock SNES PSU sending 10V and 7.5V is the minimum I'd go when stock 7805 needs at least 7V.
Should say that SNES uses the input voltage to power its audio circuity. Should work the same off 7.5-10V. I believe drawing the power before the regulator is to help keep it under the 1A max output versus some next level design strat.

tl;dr: Significantly better PSUs exist if you want to pay $2.50 more. Can say must test with lab equipment to prove there is no secret voltage spiking like PWR+. Datasheets only take you so far.
Is disappointing to me to see another cheapest tier product recommended for years without revisiting. See SNES 1-Chip bypass thread if you want to read my massive hate the on cheapest video opamps in existence being the only ones that get used.
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