Extron 201 RXi?

[Tempest_2084]

I have a nice Sony PVM monitor that I use with a Sync Strike for all my RGB modded systems. The setup works great and I don't have any real complaints other than some systems are centered differently than others on the screen (lower/higher or left/right depending). A long time ago I got an Extron 201 RXi that I thought I could use to help with the centering issue. The problem I'm running into is that if I don't have the ADSP turned on, I get tearing at the top of the screen, and if I do have ADSP turned on the centering controls are non-functional. Is there anyway to get around this? If not, does the Extron do anything else that might be of use? The picture looks exactly the same with or without the Extron so I'm not sure what the ADSP is really doing.

[Gara]

Have you tried the SERR jumper? It helps but I've never been able to eliminate that tearing on some sources. I ended up setting it up so I have a clean input and an input through my 203 rxi. That way I can have the adjustments on systems that really need it.

https://imgur.com/a/NTlMsYt

Edit: The image through the rgb rxi is also darker. A little twist of the level boost knob takes care of it.

[Tempest_2084]

Yes I believe I have SERR on as well.

Being able to control the brightness with a knob was nice and all, but hardly worth having the unit hooked up. I suppose I should check how badly all my systems are off center and see if I can put up with the tearing to center them. So far some are off a little, but nothing too terrible.

[Gara]

Yes I believe I have SERR on as well.

Being able to control the brightness with a knob was nice and all, but hardly worth having the unit hooked up. I suppose I should check how badly all my systems are off center and see if I can put up with the tearing to center them. So far some are off a little, but nothing too terrible.

Yeah it's a bummer. I don't know why it does it. Other sources like my groovymame setup have no tearing at all. My theory is that it has something to do with the LM1881 sync stripper. As far as I know you need a sync stripper for the extron to even work. There are other sync strippers out there but I've yet to try them.

It could also be some internal jumper setting in the extron. I've yet to play with those as opening my 203 is ridiculous and involves removing the vga ports. It's unlikely this is the problem.

Before I introduced the sync strike to my setup I was using a scart to bnc cable with a lm1881 and a bnc to vga adapter. Same problem.

The sync slayer uses a LMH1980. I thought about trying it but I haven't felt like gambling another $80.

https://www.8bitgasm.com/products/syncslayer

[schnuth]

Back when I was trying to get this to work I bought a Sync Slayer, and I can report it doesn’t work any better than the Sync Strike. I was wanting to use the position controls with my Supergun, and found a JAMMA adapter on AliExpress that did the trick instead.

I found my entire experience with trying to eliminate this problem with the Extron super frustrating. After finding the AliExpress adapter I sold everything on eBay and washed my hands of it.

[strygo]

I tried and failed at this as well. I ended up just using the service menu of the PVM. It's definitely not as convenient as the Extron could have been, but it does the job.

[hbard]

I don't think there's a way to get around it because the manual states several times that DDSP/ADSP turns off horizontal controls, and if you can't use the controls to check the back to see if its on.

[Link83]

I was considering getting an Extron 201/203 Rxi to use as a sync combiner, but after reading this thread i'm not sure if its still a good idea?
Is this an issue with the Extron 201 Rxi, the Sync Strike, or a combination of the two?

[Dochartaigh]

Is this an issue with the Extron 201 Rxi, the Sync Strike, or a combination of the two?

No issue I'm aware of - it's just that with one function on you can't adjust the H and V centering, with that function off (which fixes skew on some systems on some higher end CRT monitors) that centering is disabled, by design. I say "function" because I honestly always screw up which dipswitch does what (should write that down I guess .

I do know I have one Extron RGB 203 Rxi with that dipswitch on, and another with that off to hit all bases (don't think I've routed them through each other which would actually eliminate this problem... I do know one darkens my Xbox 360 with VGA cable (but is fine with every other system - just posting in case anybody knows why).

[Tempest_2084]

But without the centering function, what does the Extron actually do? It doesn't do sync stripping as you need a Sync Strike or similar device to make it work. Whatever the Advanced Digital Signal Processing is function is doing, I'm not noticing any change in the picture (good or bad). At the moment all it seems to allow me to do is adjust the brightness.

[Dochartaigh]

But without the centering function, what does the Extron actually do? It doesn't do sync stripping as you need a Sync Strike or similar device to make it work. Whatever the Advanced Digital Signal Processing is function is doing, I'm not noticing any change in the picture (good or bad). At the moment all it seems to allow me to do is adjust the brightness.

The main feature of the Extron RGB's is NOT for centering, not even remotely – it's primary use is for merging the sync of RGBHV signals (commonly called VGA) into a signal type which is compatible for devices like professional CRT monitors, some types of projectors, etc. (i.e. devices which don't have a VGA input on them, and need to be hooked up via RGBS connection, maybe RGsB).

All the other stuff the various Extron RGB models can do are just the bells and whistles some of them come with.

Most of the lower-end models don't even have vertical centering - usually only horizontal centering. And I'm guessing here, but that's probably because when you merge the H and V sync lines together that the image might shift left or right so they give you a control to compensate for that. Only the higher end models seem to have both a horizontal and vertical shifting ability - which depending on which mode you're in (which dipswitches are up or down) may or might not work if you have a feature (dipswitch) turned on which isn't compatible with how it tweaks the signal for centering.

[Tempest_2084]

The main feature of the Extron RGB's is NOT for centering, not even remotely – it's primary use is for merging the sync of RGBHV signals (commonly called VGA) into a signal type which is compatible for devices like professional CRT monitors, some types of projectors, etc. (i.e. devices which don't have a VGA input on them, and need to be hooked up via RGBS connection, maybe RGsB).

So I can hook up VGA sources to my PVM using the Extron? Interesting. Also I honestly didn't know that RGBHV was really VGA, I guess I learned something new.

[nmalinoski]

The main feature of the Extron RGB's is NOT for centering, not even remotely – it's primary use is for merging the sync of RGBHV signals (commonly called VGA) into a signal type which is compatible for devices like professional CRT monitors, some types of projectors, etc. (i.e. devices which don't have a VGA input on them, and need to be hooked up via RGBS connection, maybe RGsB).

So I can hook up VGA sources to my PVM using the Extron? Interesting. Also I honestly didn't know that RGBHV was really VGA, I guess I learned something new.

Reverse it--VGA is built around RGBHV; RGBHV is not necessarily VGA. Case in point is the Dreamcast, which outputs 480p DTV (720x480, not VGA 640x480) over RGBHV.

And yes, the Extron RGB interfaces are for adapting multiple variants of RGB (RGsB, RsGsBs, RGBS with clean sync, RGBHV) to a single variant. So, yes, if you have VGA sources, an RGB interface will let you connect them to RGBS or RGsB-only video processors/displays.

Another use case would be to get full-time RGBS out of a PS2 (due to it switching to RGsB for 480p+) without applying a hard mod. Pick up Ultimarc's PS2/PS3 AV cable (has a built-in sync stripper, since the RGB interfaces won't accept composite video or luma as sync), use it to connect the PS2 to the input on the RGB interface, and then use a BNC to SCART cable to connect the output of the RGB interface to your SCART equipment. The RGB interface will automatically detect the change in signal between RGBHV (what the cable provides) and RGsB (480p+ video modes), and you'll get your choice of full-time RGsB, RGBS, or RGBHV, depending on how you wire/configure the interface.

[Tempest_2084]

Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like I dont actually need the extra functionality then as I don't have any VGA sources I want to hook up to my PVM (they're all computers) and my monitor doesn't support 480P so the PS2 doing RGsB doesn't enter into the equation.

[digitron]

.

[fernan1234]

If you have to have the centering controls, you could try chaining the Rxi with a cheaper xi unit ahead of it. The latter can add the DDSP and SERR needed to clean up your picture (and combine your sync if needed), while the former can have DDSP turned off, allowing you to use the centering knobs.

[Shining]

I have one RGB 201 unit and two RGB 164xi units. With the 201 i get the "flagging" at the top of the screen, with both 164xi units i get a perfect picture with no distortion at the top.

[vol.2]

I also get the "flagging" with a 203 rxi into my pvm from ps2 and snes sources.
I went nuts trying to get it to work five years ago, and it still doesn't work, but it does work fine for some other sources.
Also, as far as the internal jumpers go, I think the main one is the polarity, and that had no effect on my setup other than that I now have disassembled VGA ports cause I never put them back together.

I agree with Shining that you'll just have to try a different extron or something else.

[vol.2]

I have one RGB 201 unit and two RGB 164xi units. With the 201 i get the "flagging" at the top of the screen, with both 164xi units i get a perfect picture with no distortion at the top.

The 164xi *does* lack the vertical position knob. I wonder if that's why it works better?

[vicmarto]

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but there is something I'm not understanding here.

According to the page 8 of the user manual:

DDSP or ADSP — DDSP disables all sync processing. This feature may be necessary for digital display devices such as LCD, DLP (digital light processor), and plasma displays. Use this option if the image is not displayed properly after other options, such as serration pulse and video termination changes, have been tried.

• On — The interface uses DDSP instead of ADSP. DDSP does not process the sync signal.

• Off — The interface performs sync processing operations, such as centering, with ADSP.

NOTE: DDSP disables the horizontal and vertical centering controls.

Then:

• • DDSP deactivates the sync processing and don't allow centering

• • ADSP activates the sync processing and allow centering

According to Tempest_2084 and the rest of the guys discussing:

if I do have ADSP turned on the centering controls are non-functional.

So, I'm missing something here, will someone care to explain, please?

[vol.2]

DDSP turns off ADSP. ADSP is on by default and allows centering. Some older devices which lack the vertical centering seem to be less fussy than newer devices can be (if you are seeing sync issues or flagging).



Don't feel bad about using this thread. We absolutely want to keep relevant info on hardware in one spot for any given topic. Time is not an issue for technical info.

[vicmarto]

Thanks vol.2 for the reply.

I understand now. I think I misunderstood Tempest_2084.

I am thinking if maybe the problem is in the LM1881 / LMH1980. Maybe, has anyone tried with an Exton sync stripper? Like for example the Extron SC 201 or the Extron PA 250?

[SavagePencil]

Can anyone go into detail on the internal jumpers and the work to access them?

Are there deltas between the 201 and, say, the 203?

[kitty666cats]

https://media.extron.com/public/downloa ... i_RevB.pdf


CTRL + F and search 'jumper'. The Extron site has manuals for most of their stuff.

Wouldn't be surprised if not adjusting the internal jumpers is what was giving people issues all along

[SavagePencil]

What’s the guidance for when to adjust these?

[kitty666cats]

For game consoles, you might as well configure the jumpers to always output negative sync. Then the ones for clamping, I would probably say just try the different configurations to see if any of them fix your issues/try with both ADSP and DDSP. You’ll also most likely want to have SERR enabled at all times