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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:23 am 


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Double check your power adapter. I snagged an AA a couple months back on the ebay and the included adapter the polarity was incorrect, so I swapped the wires around to make it center negative.

Is yours the 9a60 or the 9a60a? Apparently mine is the 9a60a, just judging by the pictures from the website (Says 9a60, etc. instead of bold letters VGA Component Video). Not really sure what the difference is. For all I know it was simply a design change on AA's end to breathe new life into the product line years back.


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:09 am 


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korpse413 wrote:
Double check your power adapter. I snagged an AA a couple months back on the ebay and the included adapter the polarity was incorrect, so I swapped the wires around to make it center negative.

Is yours the 9a60 or the 9a60a? Apparently mine is the 9a60a, just judging by the pictures from the website (Says 9a60, etc. instead of bold letters VGA Component Video). Not really sure what the difference is. For all I know it was simply a design change on AA's end to breathe new life into the product line years back.


It's a 9A60 and it came with what looks like the original power supply, the 571-013. It is center positive though- what's the indication that it's supposed to be center negative? There aren't any outside markings and the PCB silkscreen says "+/- 12V DC"


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:26 am 


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check out this vs. this- I was looking hard at the info on AA's website when researching the purchase. I noticed the stock photo AA uses on the 9a60 page is the 571-013 but the 9a60 is not listed in the supported products. When you look at the 805-027 it is. And AA goes out of its way to mention center negative.

The fact that you also received a 571-013 is kind of making me wonder if again I am looking too hard at their legacy site info. Or if its insignificant


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:21 am 


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I'm no electrical engineer or anything, but I would imagine you could design a circuit to accept either polarity?

I tested the converter with a 480p-compatible display and it worked just fine with the Dreamcast, while it didn't show a picture at all for 240p and 480i RGBS sources, so the power supply seems to be fine. Someone let me know if this is an incorrect assumption.

Retro-Access's newer DSub cables have screws on the VGA head. I guess I could open one and try shorting pins on it? Again, not an electrical engineer, but I'm not sure what the difference would really be compared to shorting them at the converter...

BazookaBen wrote:
Maybe short the ground for H and V too?

Also, when I said I tested on the H-pin, I just ran my signal through two BNC>VGA converters and left one sync pin unplugged. It's possible that I had it hooked up to the V pin instead of the H pin, because I'm not sure about the color coding on my BNC adapters. So maybe try routing C-sync to V-sync and see what happens


Grounds pins didn't seem to do anything. Any simple way to test routing to the V-Sync pin? All my cables run through H-Sync.


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:10 pm 


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bobrocks95 wrote:

Grounds pins didn't seem to do anything. Any simple way to test routing to the V-Sync pin? All my cables run through H-Sync.

sadly I don't think you should waste your time with that

maybe only the A revision accepts c-sync :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:32 pm 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
Grounds pins didn't seem to do anything. Any simple way to test routing to the V-Sync pin? All my cables run through H-Sync.


I ran through a series of two bnc>vga adapters and left one cable unplugged. I can take a picture later.

But with the H+V jumper method, make sure you're jumping the grounds and signal pins at the same time. No clue why that wouldn't work if the connection is solid


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:51 pm 


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Analog output on the OSSC would take care of all those things.
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We apologize for the inconvenience


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:03 pm 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:

Grounds pins didn't seem to do anything. Any simple way to test routing to the V-Sync pin? All my cables run through H-Sync.

sadly I don't think you should waste your time with that

maybe only the A revision accepts c-sync :cry:


BazookaBen wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
Grounds pins didn't seem to do anything. Any simple way to test routing to the V-Sync pin? All my cables run through H-Sync.


I ran through a series of two bnc>vga adapters and left one cable unplugged. I can take a picture later.

But with the H+V jumper method, make sure you're jumping the grounds and signal pins at the same time. No clue why that wouldn't work if the connection is solid


Double-checked my pinout and still nothing. The A revision being the only one that works with C-Sync might be the explanation for different people having different reports on the AA.


Getting a custom BNC to SCART cable from wookiewin as some people have mentioned looks like it would be $40-50. If he doesn't have female BNC heads I'd need to get a new dongle for the extron side too. Then that's still going into a SCART gender changer and a converter that could potentially be the problem as well...

I don't really want to use up space and another power plug to throw an Extron RGB interface in there, so I'm thinking I will return the AA converter and go down this list:
1) Try the custom converter from Linuxbot since it's $40-50.
2) Try a wookiewin BNC to SCART cable + a new dongle to cut out some adapters for around $50-60.
3) If my converter was the problem all along replace it with a Shinybow for ~$85.

If I'm missing something that someone has suggested, let me know. There was mention of a direct VGA to SCART cable I think? Haven't seen those before.


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:06 am 


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This was how I isolated the sync signal: The yellow line was feeding the sync signal to the AA. Not sure if yellow is H or V on that adapter.

When i put sync to the white line, I got a vertically misaligned image but still correct horizontally.

And I have the original 9a60, not the -A revision

Spoiler: show
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:33 am 


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An update to close out this thread, if anyone stumbles across it in the future looking for VGA/DSub-based solutions:

I tried Linuxbot's converter from ebay and it had horizontal color streaking with certain combinations. A strong color next to a dark color or black would bleed over and turn the dark color a shade that matched the strong color. I tried two different VGA cables and two different power adapters, and it's a problem I noticed in the very first game I tested, so I would imagine others would see it to. Would not recommend at the moment, but Linuxbot did accept the return and said they would look into future improvements. With the cost of shipping back and forth I'm out $20-25 on that one. EDIT: $10-15 as linuxbot kindly refunded the original shipping price as well!

Next I purchased a DSub to SCART cable from Retro-Access for about $40 shipped. I'm surprised nobody mentioned this as an option, since it's the most direct option and cheaper than wookiewin's offerings on ebay. Since my Keene Optus 1 converter has a male SCART head this got me down to a single female-to-female SCART adapter in the chain. Unfortunately, my rolling image noise is still there, and at the same intensity as before.

So I have now placed an order for a Shinybow. It really sucks that I had to go all the way to the bottom of my list, but oh well.

I had a feeling it was my converter that was the issue, which is why I was looking for a direct VGA replacement option, and opted to try 2 of them first before getting a new cable. I haven't received the Shinybow yet, but I would say for anyone looking at this in the future that it's better to just go ahead and spend a little more for the well-vetted option and a custom adapter cable than try a bunch of other options that don't work as well.


Last edited by bobrocks95 on Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:46 am 



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bobrocks95 wrote:
I tried Linuxbot's converter from ebay and it had horizontal color streaking with certain combinations. A strong color next to a dark color or black would bleed over and turn the dark color a shade that matched the strong color. I tried two different VGA cables and two different power adapters, and it's a problem I noticed in the very first game I tested, so I would imagine others would see it to. Would not recommend at the moment, but Linuxbot did accept the return and said they would look into future improvements. With the cost of shipping back and forth I'm out $20-25 on that one.

That sucks. I'll have to stop recommending them until something changes.

bobrocks95 wrote:
...I was looking for a direct VGA replacement option...

I understand the Retrotek VGACTV1 will do RGBHV to YPbPr from 240p to 1080i.


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:08 pm 



Joined: 05 Jan 2019
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I've been using this for RGBS to component transcoding - not sure if it would work for your setup.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VGA-to-Compone ... 2116647418


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:12 pm 


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The Retrotek was another sort of unproven option, but considering I went through two other adapters already, and people had problems with Retrotek's SCART adapter in the past, spending ~$30 more on an adapter cable and the well-respected Shinybow converter is I think the smartest move.


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:02 pm 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
An update to close out this thread, if anyone stumbles across it in the future looking for VGA/DSub-based solutions:

I tried Linuxbot's converter from ebay and it had horizontal color streaking with certain combinations. A strong color next to a dark color or black would bleed over and turn the dark color a shade that matched the strong color. I tried two different VGA cables and two different power adapters, and it's a problem I noticed in the very first game I tested, so I would imagine others would see it to. Would not recommend at the moment, but Linuxbot did accept the return and said they would look into future improvements. With the cost of shipping back and forth I'm out $20-25 on that one.

Next I purchased a DSub to SCART cable from Retro-Access for about $40 shipped. I'm surprised nobody mentioned this as an option, since it's the most direct option and cheaper than wookiewin's offerings on ebay. Since my Keene Optus 1 converter has a male SCART head this got me down to a single female-to-female SCART adapter in the chain. Unfortunately, my rolling image noise is still there, and at the same intensity as before.

So I have now placed an order for a Shinybow. It really sucks that I had to go all the way to the bottom of my list, but oh well.

I had a feeling it was my converter that was the issue, which is why I was looking for a direct VGA replacement option, and opted to try 2 of them first before getting a new cable. I haven't received the Shinybow yet, but I would say for anyone looking at this in the future that it's better to just go ahead and spend a little more for the well-vetted option and a custom adapter cable than try a bunch of other options that don't work as well.

I'm sorry to hear the linuxbot unit sucks, I thought it would be solid since it was based on ace's circuit, but apparently they didn't implement it correctly


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:54 pm 


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Pictures of the Linuxbot converter that I meant to post earlier:

Spoiler: show
Old

Image



New

Image


Note the bluish streak extending past the background bush to the right of the coin. Not the worst thing I've ever seen an adapter do, but I noticed it right away...


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:51 am 


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After getting the Shinybow in and still seeing the same interference pattern, I tore my setup to pieces and swapped out every cable I had to try and determine what the problem was.

Turns out all along it was the surge protector my CRT was plugged into... Always be sure to use clean power kids :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:21 am 


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Glad you got your setup working properly. This is a good lesson for all of us :)

How good is the picture with the Shinybow? From all accounts is a really solid transcoder but I always like to get impressions from people who've used it, especially when they have other converters to compare it too.


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:36 am 


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FinalBaton wrote:
Glad you got your setup working properly. This is a good lesson for all of us :)

How good is the picture with the Shinybow? From all accounts is a really solid transcoder but I always like to get impressions from people who've used it, especially when they have other converters to compare it too.


It's nicely built and has a goof heft to it with its metal enclosure. Colors are vibrant and the picture is sharp, but not noticeably more so than the previous Keene adapter I was using that I bought for around $40 a few years ago.

It's definitely the option to recommend to new buyers while it's still readily available. I wouldn't say people need to upgrade to it unless they're using a bottom of the barrel CSY clone (if I had known my converter was fine I wouldn't have bothered to get rid of all the adapters...)


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:52 am 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
After getting the Shinybow in and still seeing the same interference pattern, I tore my setup to pieces and swapped out every cable I had to try and determine what the problem was.

Turns out all along it was the surge protector my CRT was plugged into... Always be sure to use clean power kids :lol:

what are the details on the offending surge protector?


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:31 am 


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This thread has officially pivoted as I'm more confused than ever...

The problem was not the surge protector either. The problem is my Extron VGA switch being plugged in. At all. Even if I connect my video sources straight to my converter. Even if it's plugged into a different surge protector that isn't even on, and on another outlet.

My only possible ballpark layman's theory is that something is going on with that switch's power supply that makes it act like an antenna. As soon as that lead is connected, whether power is being supplied or not, the chassis is live in some way that my CRT picks up. Internally it looks fine, no leaky caps or anything, and the ground pin goes straight to a nut that attaches to the metal chassis of the switch.

That switch is vital to my setup and was the last thing I'd want to go wrong... Any help is greatly appreciated.

EDIT: It is an Extron SW12 VGA Ars switch


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:03 am 



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bobrocks95 wrote:
This thread has officially pivoted as I'm more confused than ever...

The problem was not the surge protector either. The problem is my Extron VGA switch being plugged in. At all. Even if I connect my video sources straight to my converter. Even if it's plugged into a different surge protector that isn't even on, and on another outlet.

My only possible ballpark layman's theory is that something is going on with that switch's power supply that makes it act like an antenna. As soon as that lead is connected, whether power is being supplied or not, the chassis is live in some way that my CRT picks up. Internally it looks fine, no leaky caps or anything, and the ground pin goes straight to a nut that attaches to the metal chassis of the switch.

That switch is vital to my setup and was the last thing I'd want to go wrong... Any help is greatly appreciated.

EDIT: It is an Extron SW12 VGA Ars switch

Email Extron; they've been pretty open to supporting (at least with information) us second-hand buyers/fans. At the very least, they could tell you if it's a known problem and if there are any known fixes.


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 Post subject: Re: Options to simplify my RGB setup (VGA to YPbPr converter
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:15 pm 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
This thread has officially pivoted as I'm more confused than ever...

The problem was not the surge protector either. The problem is my Extron VGA switch being plugged in. At all. Even if I connect my video sources straight to my converter. Even if it's plugged into a different surge protector that isn't even on, and on another outlet.

My only possible ballpark layman's theory is that something is going on with that switch's power supply that makes it act like an antenna. As soon as that lead is connected, whether power is being supplied or not, the chassis is live in some way that my CRT picks up. Internally it looks fine, no leaky caps or anything, and the ground pin goes straight to a nut that attaches to the metal chassis of the switch.

That switch is vital to my setup and was the last thing I'd want to go wrong... Any help is greatly appreciated.

EDIT: It is an Extron SW12 VGA Ars switch

I know you said the video was not passing through the switch, but is there any other way that the chassis of the switch could be grounded to another device in the chain?


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