Hello! Long time lurker requesting help with PC Monitor.

[worzyl]

Hello everyone,

I've been an extremely long time lurker on this forum since around 2005. This was around the time when I was really getting back into shmups and purchased myself a Japanese Saturn; the collection started to get rather expensive and had sold most of them 3 years later, but kept the ones I knew I would still play at some point.

That some point has finally come. I had bought a Sony GDM FW900 a long time ago for work purposes (not to play games) for my desktop. However - it didn't get much use as I started using my laptop more for work. My desktop has long been made redundant, so a few weeks ago I decided to put the monitor to use. Currently I have the HDFury hooked up so PS3 and PS4 works fine. I was also given a "Simple Video Scalar B"

http://www.js-technology.com/store/prod ... product=56

The Sega Saturn, Megadrive, Dreamcast, Amstrad 6128 Plus, PS1, PS2 and Amiga 1200 all display on the monitor apart from one problem, that happens on all the machines. The screen is shifted to the left:

https://postimg.cc/QHj7L0q8

I have tried all the settings on the monitor menu to shift and centre, but it only shifts the image "as is".

I contacted the company (who have a very good customer service) and we just couldn't figure out what to do. So I decided to try here if anyone else has had the same problem?

Any help would be appreciated.

[gray117]

Tested the scaler on any other screen successfully?

... Although it's possible, I doubt there's an issue with the monitor, or having a problem with the signal it's receiving... At this stage it just sounds more like someone's passed on a duff scaler :/

[Gunstar]

Might be the HDFury, which version are you using?

original hdfury1 and hdfury2 have a major left shift issue

Source

HDFury 3 has a horizontal shift feature so if you have that then you could solve it if not an Extron unit might work.

[worzyl]

Thank you for your replies.

Tested the scaler on any other screen successfully?

... Although it's possible, I doubt there's an issue with the monitor, or having a problem with the signal it's receiving... At this stage it just sounds more like someone's passed on a duff scaler :/

The scaler was a present from my brother bought from the actual company. I have the receipt, but I don't think it's the scaler (it's an extremely well made bit of kit)as I tested it on another monitor which is a widesceen LCD and it showed the left side:

https://postimg.cc/7b456zHt

Might be the HDFury, which version are you using?

original hdfury1 and hdfury2 have a major left shift issue

Source

HDFury 3 has a horizontal shift feature so if you have that then you could solve it if not an Extron unit might work.

I'm not using the HDFury 4 with the Simple Video Scalar Spec B. The SVS is a stand alone product and the HD Fury 4 has no issues at all. I did try to connect the SVS to the HDFury with a vga to HDMI cable, but I got nothing.

Console Scart>SVS>VGA>HDMI>HDFURY>VGA

Also Customer service also told me this:

"the Simple Video Scalar is a de-interlacer so on PAL formats the picture resolution sits between VGA and SVGA. This means it's very dependent upon the monitors"

[gray117]

Ah well... Monitor it is then; if anything you'd typically expect a crt to be more tolerant of a possible odd res/sync.

It might just be pot luck with upres'd pal. It'd be interesting if choosing 60hz on any game that supports than fixes the shift... I'd presume some of your dreamcast games have this option? The resolution may still give it grief for some reason but I suspect more so the sync. I don't suppose you've got ntsc versions of any of the consoles just to try out of interest?... Not that it's actually a fix...

Beyond that if you want to play on crt you could try your luck on some cheapy the 4:3 monitors...

Spending significantly more than or swapping the scaler is probably a futile effort if you're otherwise happy with it. If not then perhaps another device will kick out something that the monitor will play with but it'd really be pot luck.

If your keen to only use this monitor perhaps try googling/asking more amiga based communities for examples of this exact issue - this'll presumably be a very common combo for them.

Sorry not much direct use - good luck!

[worzyl]

I have a Japanese Sega Saturn and a Japanese Dreamcast. The PS1 and PS2 are both modded to play both PAL and NTSC. I tested Elevator Action Returns on the Saturn and it still has the left side cut off. In regards to the Amiga:

http://www.js-technology.com/store/info ... onitor.pdf

Page 5 shows the SVS connected to the Amiga. Interestingly, it is the right side that is being cut off, but this can be remedied in Workbench.

I think in order for the SVS to work on this monitor - it would have to be done in firmware.

[worzyl]

I was told in another forum that an Extron RGB interface could solve the problem with the screen shift. But I'm not sure if it's wise to start purchasing equipment just to shift and widen the screen area.

Are there any other alternatives as I was told that I would not be able to do it with software?

[Gunstar]

I'm not using the HDFury 4 with the Simple Video Scalar Spec B. The SVS is a stand alone product and the HD Fury 4 has no issues at all. I did try to connect the SVS to the HDFury with a vga to HDMI cable, but I got nothing.

Console Scart>SVS>VGA>HDMI>HDFURY>VGA

Is the cable passive or does it have a DAC built in?

Might be a back porch issue or needs an active/sync length adjustment? not sure how you would go about changing those without something like an OSSC. How do the PS3/4 and DC behave at 480p on the FW900?

[gray117]

I was told in another forum that an Extron RGB interface could solve the problem with the screen shift. But I'm not sure if it's wise to start purchasing equipment just to shift and widen the screen area.

Are there any other alternatives as I was told that I would not be able to do it with software?

It's entirely possible, but it's a bit of a crap shoot - there's lots of variations on the interface which may or may not just happen to play happily with your monitor. Likely it'll work. But what do I know: I also thought it was likely your scaler was not behaving and your crt was behaving fine - and it was the other way round

Is the cable passive or does it have a DAC built in?

It'll be passive it's the scaler that's a bit of an unknown/not tweakable box afaik - which in all fairness is kind of fine - it's doing its job. Just doesn't play well with the particular monitor on hand.

Might be a back porch issue or needs an active/sync length adjustment?
not sure how you would go about changing those without something like an OSSC. How do the PS3/4 and DC behave at 480p on the FW900?

Any active passthrough box/scaler/converter that conforms the signal in any manner will likely help. And the interfaces with their shifting capability is a reason bet. However, it's still a bet ... Specifically, I suspect the OSSC is not the answer you're looking for since it'll be more likely to still be kicking out a slightly odd signal that the monitor may not like as opposed to something more generic. And whilst an OSSC is my go to recommendation in any other situation, it is a fair amount of cost/hassle/risk in this particular case if you definitely want to still use this specific monitor which appears to be a bit picky.

...

i) See if anyone around you might have any of this kit and give it a test to see what might work before taking the plunge to prevent filling your home with crap. Location? You never know someone might be in your area who could lend it to you.

ii) if you've got the space/access/not set on using this particular crt, just try it on another cheapo crt. If it works, just get another 4:3 pc crt. Probably $$ or $ cost for a pc crt where you are?

iii) if you've got any rgb interface or passthough equipment sure try putting this between the scaler and monitor. Might work fine... might not. If you don't have one around to at least test, it with could add up to a more costly failed experiment than ii)

iv) If you want to keep using this specific monitor try a different scaler. Still a bit of pot luck unless anyone has experience. Personally at this kind of level ($$$ as opposed to $$) I'd be inclined to spend the likely $$$ on a OSSC for whatever is my current gen low lag screen... Unless you are happy spending time and money on the crt specific solution - which is a cool option, just increasingly hard to recommend these days unless you are happy with the time/effort/cash required.

[Gunstar]

If it is passive then getting an active VGA to HDMI DAC would perhaps power the HDFURY4 and you could then use the horizontal shift feature to check if that will be enough to get the image centred. From what I remember of the HDFURY3 it doesn't have the horizontal range of an Extron RGB unit but might be enough to get the full picture in view. VGA to HDMI DACs are quite cheap so worth a low-cost gamble (buy from a place with no fuss returns and just send it back if it doesn't work).

@gray117 Agreed. If it's in your budget the OSSC a worthwhile investment as it'll really make those consoles shine on the FW900 which is a great CRT. Also interested to see how the image from the scaler appears on another PC CRT.

[worzyl]

You all have been extremely helpful.

I have an update on the situation. I hooked up my Sega Saturn again and loaded in Street Fighter Alpha 3. This game has a built in option in the menu to shift the screen horizontally. The results were interesting in that I was able to shift the screen BUT now the right side is cut off! Basically - the monitor isn't displaying the whole area

This is very strange. When pressing the menu button on the monitor it says "31 khz 640 x 480", but it's obviously creating a smaller size than that.

In regards to the VGA - HDMI DAC, any recommendations? Would this be okay?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Converter-Veet ... JMKNS&th=1

[Gunstar]

Yeah, that should work.

Is the SFA3 image shifting across the monitor or does it only shift within the active window?

There's an ASC button on the FW900, does that do anything?

Looking at your LCD picture I'm not sure it's showing the entire picture either, looks like it cuts right up to the 'M' on the memory card text and a little bit of the top.

[worzyl]

Yeah, that should work.

Is the SFA3 image shifting across the monitor or does it only shift within the active window?

There's an ASC button on the FW900, does that do anything?

Looking at your LCD picture I'm not sure it's showing the entire picture either, looks like it cuts right up to the 'M' on the memory card text and a little bit of the top.

Thank you for the picture. It's been a while since I played my PS1 so I couldn't remember what the full menu looked like.

1) The SFA3 is shifting within the active window. That's why I think that the monitor is displaying a smaller area.

2) The ASC button scales the image to fit the screen (4:3), but it doesn't sort out the problem.

[worzyl]

I received the adapter today and chained the SVS to the HDFury4. Unfortunately, the image is still cutting off the area on the left side no matter what option I choose on the HD Fury. This is because the signal from the scaler is the first input being received.

[nmalinoski]

Potentially silly question: Since you're connecting to the monitor with VGA, does the monitor have an auto-adjust feature?

[worzyl]

Potentially silly question: Since you're connecting to the monitor with VGA, does the monitor have an auto-adjust feature?

The auto adjust feature doesn't work.

This is the result testing the Saturn with the scaler

https://postimg.cc/v1QW4bMS


And this is the result tested without the scaler. (Saturn plugged directly into the LCD TV)

https://postimg.cc/fV5VgXnB

The LCD TV used is a SANYO CE32LD90-B and has these terminals:

https://postimg.cc/67rtmxvw
https://postimg.cc/Th7GS9py

[Gunstar]

I think it's the scaler that is at fault. You might want to look into getting a GBS-8220/8200, a cheap scaler that needs some tweaks/mods out of the box but if you're able to get custom firmware onto it (I think it needs a Pi?) it gets even better. You'll also need to wire up a scart and sync separator or buy a premade sync-strike box to be able to hook up your RGB Scart consoles.

[worzyl]

I think it's the scaler that is at fault. You might want to look into getting a GBS-8220/8200, a cheap scaler that needs some tweaks/mods out of the box but if you're able to get custom firmware onto it (I think it needs a Pi?) it gets even better. You'll also need to wire up a scart and sync separator or buy a premade sync-strike box to be able to hook up your RGB Scart consoles.

I could order this and connect it to the HDFury4 instead of using the scaler? Could be cheap and easy?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vlio-1080P-Ups ... ptor&psc=1

Thoughts?

Edit: Just read that people have problems using the megadrive(?)

[gray117]

Who knows? Unfortunately super cheap scalers will typically have significant issues regarding quality and input lag. And whilst it's really just a crap shoot - might be fine, might not be - I wouldn't hold my breath on anything that budget, but you don't know until you (/someone else) tries it.

Also depends on your own thresholds for each of the following, but at the end of the day you might get an image onto any monitor but does the resulting i) image geometry, ii) sharpness, iii) colours and, perhaps most nuanced, iv) input lag, make it worth it?

...

These amongst other issues is how/why so many people end up gravitating towards higher end solutions such as framemeister/xrgb or OSSC.
As general advice goes as nice/straightforward as the HD fury is, I'd spend the $$$ on a scaler first, and then sort out the transcoder (hdfury) if needed, since that is the easier area to go cheaper on...

...

As an aside, if you're not familiar with it, I recommend Fudoh's site for a read (especially deinterlacing classic videogames - the GBS-8220/8200 worzyl recommended == hdboxpro + clones in his reviews there).

http://www.hazard-city.de/
http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

Good luck!