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 Post subject: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:17 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 578
I'm thinking of making a groovymame build in a small case, what motherboard, video card, processor etc are recommended for best performance at reasonable cost at this point in time?

Any advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:38 pm 


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I'd still go for a used Intel G3258 overclocked to 4Ghz+ plus a used Radeon HD5450.

With those you should be able to play 99,9% of the library, excluding some of the most recent 3D titles.

I've heard good things about the new Pentiums and i3 processors, it all depends if you're going for a 100% dedicated setup or a more "all round" setup.


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:48 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 578
Thanks for the reply, does the Radeon HD 5450 still have analogue output? I was under the impression the last models to have them were the HD4xxx.

EDIT: Looks like both the Gigabyte and Visiontek versions have vga output. Would these fit in a Mini-ITX Case? I forgot to mention I intend to use one of those due to space limitations.

I'm going for a fully dedicated setup on a consumer crt, probably will install a frontend and pretty much only use it for Mame.


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:03 pm 


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I chose a 5450 because they are available as half-height cards. Look around eBay for one.


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:07 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
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Thanks. Yes looks like they're available brand new still too. Also seems like they're better than the ATI Radeon HD4350 which used to be the one I saw people recommend a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:29 pm 


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Take into consideration if the newer ATi card can do as low pixel clock as the older cards, which basically means some of the newer ATi cards (possibly the 5450) might not be able to have such a wide selection of resolutions at the lower end


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:36 am 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 578
Thanks for that input, that does sound like something I better check into first.

What about motherboard, what would be a suitable match for a Mini-ITX Case?


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:11 am 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
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After going cheap on my 7th gen Intel dual 3.5ghz? processor on my mini-ITX case, I have to recommend something decently fast. All internet wisdom says you don't need anything fast (which is why I cheaped out to begin with), but playing even early 3d games like Time Crisis I was getting stuttering. I said screw it and bought an i7-7700 which I'm sure is overkill, but I didn't want to have any problems emulating ANYTHING I wanted to in the future.

I went with an AMD Radeon HD 6450 video card which I saw Calamity mention in a couple forum posts so I knew it was compatible with CRT Emudriver. It was cheap at $42 shipped. My motherboard (now 1-gen? behind) is an "ASRock H270M-ITX/ac LGA 1151 Intel H270 Mini ITX".


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:38 am 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
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Dochartaigh wrote:
After going cheap on my 7th gen Intel dual 3.5ghz? processor on my mini-ITX case, I have to recommend something decently fast. All internet wisdom says you don't need anything fast (which is why I cheaped out to begin with), but playing even early 3d games like Time Crisis I was getting stuttering. I said screw it and bought an i7-7700 which I'm sure is overkill, but I didn't want to have any problems emulating ANYTHING I wanted to in the future.

I went with an AMD Radeon HD 6450 video card which I saw Calamity mention in a couple forum posts so I knew it was compatible with CRT Emudriver. It was cheap at $42 shipped. My motherboard (now 1-gen? behind) is an "ASRock H270M-ITX/ac LGA 1151 Intel H270 Mini ITX".


Wow thanks for those recommendations. Really appreciate for the mother board advice, I'll just go with whatever is available from this gen (seems to be the H370). The HD 6450 seems like a great pick as it's barely more expensive than the commonly recommended HD4350. Do you run your setup on a consumer crt or on pvm/bvm?

Lastly was the newer i7-7700 really worth it? The i7 seems like such overkill but I'm not opposed to the idea. Did you get significant improvements in 3d games?

*By the way total side note but are you able to use lightguns in Time Crisis on Mame?


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:33 am 


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If you mean to play more than just the already decently-running emulated 2D games, I'd go with a quad-core at minimum 3.5GHz capable, with lots of single-thread performance, and able to push to 4GHz or above either by turbo or OC.
If you don't mind those crazy-heavy titles then any CPU +/-3.5GHz that scores a bit above 2000 STP, even just dual core, will do.

Note that with Groovy the GPU matters too, though more specifically if you're going to play on a LCD.
Most R series are decent, R9 support analogue out (DVI-I) up to the 380/380X (overkill for a CRT setup tho), then for more recent models the next version of CRT_Emudriver will support the RX and Vega, which don't feature analogue but you'll still be able to do some real 15KHz to some extent using a HDMI/DVI>VGA adapter later (still experimental)
Mid-to-high end models are more interesting for pushing the limits of frame_delay and stuff over a flat panel methinks. Also they are power-hungry and don't exactly all fit in a compact case lol.
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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:02 am 



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 189
Location: germany
Here is the setup that I`m really happy with.

Asus Z97M Pro Mainboard
Intel G3258 overclocked @4.4ghz
Ati 6450 1GB GPU
8GB Crucial Ballistix
Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD.
Groovymame 0.200 switchres 0.17
Attract Mode with Nevato Theme including snapshots for easier browsing
CRT-Emudriver 2.0 with Composite Sync option enabled. This feature is so handy as it plugs in straight into the BVM via vga>bnc cable.


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:24 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 578
Thanks svensonson for sharing your build, and to Xyga for the info, I'm actually going to stick to crt's for this one so I'm going for a purely crt mame dedicated build.

I'm basically down to trying to decide on a processor right now. Still uncertain which to go with so if I can get other opinions that would be appreciated. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:05 pm 


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I think your safest bet is an overclockable i3. Otherwise I'd still stick with the G3258. Make sure you get a motherboard which is able to OC it.


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:35 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 578
Thanks for that. I think I'm going with the HD 6450. It seems that it will fit in the Silverstone SG05 although it will be a tight fit:

https://www.silverstonetek.com/product. ... 10&area=en

I'm considering going with the HD 5450 alternatively so this decision isn't yet set in stone but I'm leaning towards the HD6450 to give it a try. Any additional comments would still be appreciated.

For the processor, I don't go for overclocking, so I'm looking for something that will give good performance out of the box (aside from changing the fan perhaps adding a heatsink etc).

The main idea is to get one that has as high a clock speed as possible while ignoring the core count right? What do people generally spend on average for a new processor (or do you get them second hand)? All the ones from the last two gens seem to be pretty pricey. I haven't put together a new computer in something like 6 years so I sort of forgot how pricey a component the cpu is...


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:08 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 819
Taiyaki wrote:
It seems that it will fit in the Silverstone SG05 although it will be a tight fit:


I spent hours and hours and hours picking out a case...I went with the SilverStone SG13B-Q Mini-ITX Computer Case.

Fits the Asus Silence 1GB 6450 just fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:27 pm 



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 90
Location: France
Hello,

Look at second hand computer. I just bought for 160€ a computer with an i7-2600/GTX580/8GB RAM/SSD 256gb/2TB HDD/BR driver.

I sold the GPU, extra ram, the HDD and BR driver on ebay and bought a used HD 5850 Powercolor for 10€ :-)

At the end the computer cost me nothing lol. I've read online bad review about the G-series of CPU with demanding games (you get sound stutter or lag) so dont get one. I can easily run Demul and others emulator at 240p/480p, even HD but I'm using a CRT (MX7000) so no need to.

Don't forget that shmupmame (for example) is more demanding than groovymame because of accuray, same for higan (nintendo emulator).

I have a big case but since I have a micro-ATX I can find a smaller case to fit my mobo and GPU (24cm).

A new computer would have cost me 300€+, for a mame computer its too much.

Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:37 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 578
Dochartaigh wrote:
Taiyaki wrote:
It seems that it will fit in the Silverstone SG05 although it will be a tight fit:


I spent hours and hours and hours picking out a case...I went with the SilverStone SG13B-Q Mini-ITX Computer Case.

Fits the Asus Silence 1GB 6450 just fine.


Thanks for that. I'm going to settle on the HD6450 then.

I was looking at the Asrock H370M-ITX since that seems to be the newer model, but they no longer support Windows 7? How crazy. I hadn't thought about that. So it's impossible to find a new motherboard that still supports 7 I venture? :(


Justice> I'm looking at getting as many parts as possible new so I can rely on the components in the long term but that was an amazing buy you found.


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:26 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 819
Taiyaki wrote:
I was looking at the Asrock H370M-ITX since that seems to be the newer model, but they no longer support Windows 7? How crazy. I hadn't thought about that. So it's impossible to find a new motherboard that still supports 7 I venture? :(


On my ASRock MB (one version back from what you're looking at) I had to patch the Windows 7 installation ISO (via a program ASRock can provide), then it would install Windows 7 on my computer just fine. I went with Windows 10 however (which I'm kinda regretting...but I wanted a computer I could do everything with and the newest versions of my non-gaming programs won't run on Windows 10).


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:31 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 578
Dochartaigh wrote:
Taiyaki wrote:
I was looking at the Asrock H370M-ITX since that seems to be the newer model, but they no longer support Windows 7? How crazy. I hadn't thought about that. So it's impossible to find a new motherboard that still supports 7 I venture? :(


On my ASRock MB (one version back from what you're looking at) I had to patch the Windows 7 installation ISO (via a program ASRock can provide), then it would install Windows 7 on my computer just fine. I went with Windows 10 however (which I'm kinda regretting...but I wanted a computer I could do everything with and the newest versions of my non-gaming programs won't run on Windows 10).

Yes on Asrock's website they do indicate that the one version back H270M-ITX is compatible with Windows 7 through a patch, unfortunately no longer for the newer ones. Looking on around I see I can find a few years back model of the Z line which has windows 7 compatibility and it only about 20 bucks more so I might just get that.


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:43 pm 



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 90
Location: France
You may be interested by this setup:

http://wavebeam.blogspot.com/2016/02/th ... plays.html


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:28 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 578
justice99 wrote:
You may be interested by this setup:

http://wavebeam.blogspot.com/2016/02/th ... plays.html

Thanks a bunch, great setup. He uses the i3-4170 which seems a bit outdated, also doesn't seem to be compatible with the motherboard I'm eyeing according to their site (or are legacy processors still compatible?

https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z170M-ITXac/#CPU


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:37 pm 


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Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 6382
Location: Craig's
Quote:
MAME can only use two cores simultaneously at most

MAME can use up to 8 cores and more, which helps both in perfomance and stability/accuracy in various ways.
http://wiki.mamedev.org/index.php/FAQ:Performance

Sure a good dual core is enough for most popular 2D games, but if it's for a greater number of games and you want the best of MAME, definitely go for a powerful quad core.
The i3-8350k is basically the best CPU on the market price/perfrmance-wise. With the right mobo that beast can overclock to 5GHz.

Again of course it's only for people who want to take full advantage of MAME/groovy.
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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:14 am 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 470
It is worth being aware that some of the newer console emulators (Dreamcast, Wii, Naomi etc) make use of the GPU. I have a 5450 and it is not able to run Naomi games at an acceptible speed. I suggest buying the best / latest GPU that will work with CRT EMU.

I have an Intel I7 3930k. It's ok but it could alway be faster if you care about authenticity with Mame.

I went down the mini ITX route a few years ago. It's a mistake for a gaming pc. Get a tower and a motherboard with plenty of room for expansion and upgrades. A mini ITX is too limited on space for decent GPUs or quality PSUs etc.

A lot of the later PC based arcade games have been cracked now and are playable on regular PCs using virtual machines. It makes sense to get a PC that will let you take advantage...


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:02 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 578
Xyga> Thanks for that. You convinced me to go for something at least dual core. I settled on the i3 7350K 4.2ghz which seems like a very fast processor that seems to keep moderate temperatures. Still I'm considering putting in Prolimatech PRO-SAM17 Samuel cooler in it like the fellow from the wavebeam article linked above did. Only think I realize is the motherboard I went with (only one I could find new at an affordable price that supported both DDR4 and Windows 7) seems to be significantly higher on the power consumption chart compared to the one that fellow used (my Z170 peaks at 150 vs his H97M that peaks at 75), both using the same psu at 300 watts (my mother board requires a bios upgrade out of the box so I'm going to use another cpu temporarily while updating). That being said I don't intend to use many features of the motherboard other than the audio jack port and will try to deactivate everything else so hope it won't be a problem.

Classicgamer wrote:
It is worth being aware that some of the newer console emulators (Dreamcast, Wii, Naomi etc) make use of the GPU. I have a 5450 and it is not able to run Naomi games at an acceptible speed. I suggest buying the best / latest GPU that will work with CRT EMU.

I have an Intel I7 3930k. It's ok but it could alway be faster if you care about authenticity with Mame.

I went down the mini ITX route a few years ago. It's a mistake for a gaming pc. Get a tower and a motherboard with plenty of room for expansion and upgrades. A mini ITX is too limited on space for decent GPUs or quality PSUs etc.

A lot of the later PC based arcade games have been cracked now and are playable on regular PCs using virtual machines. It makes sense to get a PC that will let you take advantage...


I'd love to that but I'm very limited in space so I had to go the mini itx route, also I mainly intend to run pre 2000 games so I hope the HD6450 will perform strongly with all of those. Also I'm targeting mame for it's accuracy. I have a stronger main pc I can run those on although not on the crt, but for modern arcade games from post 2007 or so I find an lcd is more suitable as that was often what was used in those arcade cabinets by then.


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:08 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 578
Dochartaigh wrote:
After going cheap on my 7th gen Intel dual 3.5ghz? processor on my mini-ITX case, I have to recommend something decently fast. All internet wisdom says you don't need anything fast (which is why I cheaped out to begin with), but playing even early 3d games like Time Crisis I was getting stuttering. I said screw it and bought an i7-7700 which I'm sure is overkill, but I didn't want to have any problems emulating ANYTHING I wanted to in the future.

I went with an AMD Radeon HD 6450 video card which I saw Calamity mention in a couple forum posts so I knew it was compatible with CRT Emudriver. It was cheap at $42 shipped. My motherboard (now 1-gen? behind) is an "ASRock H270M-ITX/ac LGA 1151 Intel H270 Mini ITX".


Hi Dochartaigh,

Since you use the HD 6450 maybe you can help me, I followed your advice and went with that card and am currently downloading necessary files in preparation of setting every up but I've encountered a bump in selecting the crtemudriver that suits this card. The HD6000 series is listed in both the crtemudrivers for ver 12.6 and ver 16.2, the latter of which is listed as for "non gcn" cards. I've been trying to search google endlessly for a response on this but is the HD 6450 a "gcn" card or "non gcn" card? Which one did you pick?

Thanks a bunch and sorry for the trouble.


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:11 pm 


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Posts: 6382
Location: Craig's
Taiyaki wrote:
Only think I realize is the motherboard I went with (only one I could find new at an affordable price that supported both DDR4 and Windows 7) seems to be significantly higher on the power consumption chart compared to the one that fellow used (my Z170 peaks at 150 vs his H97M that peaks at 75), both using the same psu at 300 watts (my mother board requires a bios upgrade out of the box so I'm going to use another cpu temporarily while updating). That being said I don't intend to use many features of the motherboard other than the audio jack port and will try to deactivate everything else so hope it won't be a problem.

The point of getting an i3-7350K is to play most MAME games at full speed easily and still have room for extras like frame_delay, while keeping it all relatively budget.
Which means no plans for overclocking even if that sounds counterintuitive, it being unlocked.
With that in mind I'd guess any 1151 mobo will do anyway.
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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:39 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 819
Taiyaki wrote:
Since you use the HD 6450 maybe you can help me, I followed your advice and went with that card and am currently downloading necessary files in preparation of setting every up but I've encountered a bump in selecting the crtemudriver that suits this card. The HD6000 series is listed in both the crtemudrivers for ver 12.6 and ver 16.2, the latter of which is listed as for "non gcn" cards. I've been trying to search google endlessly for a response on this but is the HD 6450 a "gcn" card or "non gcn" card? Which one did you pick?


The file I have saved, in the readme file says "CRT Emudriver 2.0 beta 13 (based on Catalyst 12.6 & Crimson 16.2.1) for Windows 7/8/10 64-bit" - I hope that helps.

One thing to note is when I was installing the CRT Emudrivers don't be alarmed if it says your card is the 5000 series or something like that (I remember it not saying my exact model number, which I think might be normal). Also note to follow the directions EXACTLY - like quadruple check. GroovyMAME has always been a bear for me to setup - like absolutely horrible...but just keep trying, and restarting, and trying the installation again (sometimes it took me like 6+ times, easy, for the driver to take sometimes).


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:17 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 578
Dochartaigh wrote:
Taiyaki wrote:
Since you use the HD 6450 maybe you can help me, I followed your advice and went with that card and am currently downloading necessary files in preparation of setting every up but I've encountered a bump in selecting the crtemudriver that suits this card. The HD6000 series is listed in both the crtemudrivers for ver 12.6 and ver 16.2, the latter of which is listed as for "non gcn" cards. I've been trying to search google endlessly for a response on this but is the HD 6450 a "gcn" card or "non gcn" card? Which one did you pick?


The file I have saved, in the readme file says "CRT Emudriver 2.0 beta 13 (based on Catalyst 12.6 & Crimson 16.2.1) for Windows 7/8/10 64-bit" - I hope that helps.

One thing to note is when I was installing the CRT Emudrivers don't be alarmed if it says your card is the 5000 series or something like that (I remember it not saying my exact model number, which I think might be normal). Also note to follow the directions EXACTLY - like quadruple check. GroovyMAME has always been a bear for me to setup - like absolutely horrible...but just keep trying, and restarting, and trying the installation again (sometimes it took me like 6+ times, easy, for the driver to take sometimes).


Appreciate that. I'll be on extra alert when going through the install then.

Xyga> Thanks, I feel quite confident in this build now.


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:13 pm 



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 90
Location: France
Taiyaki - What the final cost of your computer? Is it ready?


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 Post subject: Re: Groovymame build recommendations in 2019
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:49 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 578
justice99 wrote:
Taiyaki - What the final cost of your computer? Is it ready?

It's not ready yet as I'm waiting for a few components to arrive still, but I estimate I might have it done by late next week.

Final cost was higher than I was expecting and probably too high for most people making a dedicated groovymame pc. Tallying up the part costs it comes close to 475 dollars. The reason for this was because I opted to get everything I could new (which ended up being all components). If going used the total cost would surely be significantly less, maybe even half (although from what I saw even used the i3 7350k still does sell for quite a bit). The most expensive parts were by far the cpu followed by the case (which comes with a psu) and motherboard.

The final components I settled on:

Silverstone SG05 black case with 300 watt power supply
Asrock z170m-itx
i3 7350K 4.2ghz processor
ati radeon 6450 1gb
Ballistix 8gb ddr4
Sandisk SSD 120gb
Noctua NH-L9i cpu cooler and fan
an added fan for case (can't remember model off the top of my head but a silent variety)

The weakest part of this build is in the power supply undoubtedly but I'll just change it sometime in the future, from the calculations I looked at in online calculators by putting in all the components and test at high power consumption rates the results I got were between 220~230 watt so the 300 watt psu seems okay in the short term.

Also worth noting the motherboard doesn't take the i3 73520k out of the box and needs an update, so I'll use an older intel cpu I have lying around that is noted as being compatible to flash the mother board first before putting in the final cpu. If anyone else wants to follow this build and is going used I'd go for the Asrock z270 instead since it will be compatible with these better processors right out of the box (although it needs a fix to work with Windows 7 from what I hear). Unfortunately I couldn't find a new one. The next one up the z370 is not compatible with windows 7 which was a deal breaker for me.


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