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 Post subject: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:57 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 470
Does anyone here own both a Guncon 3 and a PS move? I would like to hear opinions on which is better and if the Guncon 3 is worth buying for someone who already owns a move?

I recently picked up the Razing Storm disc with Time Crisis 4, storm and that Pirates game. To my surprise, I like it but the controls aren't the best...


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 Post subject: Re: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:50 pm 



Joined: 17 Jan 2017
Posts: 57
The PS Move is much more accurate but still not as accurate as a real light gun. The Guncon 3 is about as accurate as a Wii Mote. The PS Move is also much easier to acquire.


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 Post subject: Re: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:02 am 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 470
Thanks

I was kinda hoping that Namco might have figured out how to make IR gun tech accurate enough to use without crosshairs. Shame.

My PS move is ok. It's better than my Aimtrak but still a long way from my Guncon 2 with my PS2.


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 Post subject: Re: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:42 pm 



Joined: 17 Jan 2017
Posts: 57
PS Move could be much more accurate on PS4 with the dual camera. Shame Namco or Sega hasn’t tried yet. It would great to see new or their old games on there.


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 Post subject: Re: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:24 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 470
I picked up a cheap Guncon 3 off eBay and I have to say it is 100 times better than the PS3 move.I haven't tried the PS4 and have little interest.

The Guncon 3 is the only home gun I have used that is genuinely accurate enough for line of sight aiming. It's not quite as good as the Guncon 2 on a CRT but it's not far off. Accuracy is comparable with the Time Crisis 4 arcade which is not surprising as it uses the same gun tech.

It's a shame that Namco stuck a dildo on the side of the gun for that appalling FPS game they cursed the Time Crisis 4 disc with but that is easily fixed with a diy project to transfer the Guncon 3 guts into an arcade recoil gun shell.

It is a massive shame that Namco only made 3 games that use the Guncon 3 but they have the advantage of being available all one disc. The Razing Storm disc has arcade perfect version of TC4, deadstorm Pirate and Razing storm.

Some guy even started making Guncon 3 drivers for Windows and made the code available online. Hopefully someone will finish it one day...


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 Post subject: Re: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:34 pm 


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Joined: 07 Feb 2015
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I like the Gun over the move for Time Crisis after you calibrate the sensors it plays wel.. the move is good for games like House of the dead because it is not compatible with a gun.
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 Post subject: Re: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:07 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 470
SNK-NEO-GEO wrote:
I like the Gun over the move for Time Crisis after you calibrate the sensors it plays wel.. the move is good for games like House of the dead because it is not compatible with a gun.


The move is fine for games with visible crosshairs on screen although the lag is very noticeable. The Guncon 3 has far less lag for some reason. At least, it does on Razing Storm, one of two games with visible crosshairs that work with both devices.

I can understand why people were so critical of the Guncon 3 at the time though. PlayStation fans were used to the Guncon 2 and who knew that all other flatscreen guns would be noticeably worse.

Namco seems to have given up on the home gun market now. Time Crisis 5 seems to be arcade only... which seems dumb as there are like three arcades left in the whole world...


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 Post subject: Re: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:28 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 578
I remember buying the guncon 3 package with Time Crisis 4 in Japan when it first came out, was pretty hyped although I thought the design looked terrible. Well when I got home and tried it I couldn't believe what a major downgrade it was compared to the guncon 2, and that's after having to fuss getting the sensors set up properly and spending time calibrating it. I have no idea how the move compares but I if it really doesn't do miles better then there's something terribly wrong with it considering it came out so many years later. lol


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 Post subject: Re: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:23 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 470
Taiyaki wrote:
I remember buying the guncon 3 package with Time Crisis 4 in Japan when it first came out, was pretty hyped although I thought the design looked terrible. Well when I got home and tried it I couldn't believe what a major downgrade it was compared to the guncon 2, and that's after having to fuss getting the sensors set up properly and spending time calibrating it. I have no idea how the move compares but I if it really doesn't do miles better then there's something terribly wrong with it considering it came out so many years later. lol


The move is noticeably worse than the Guncon 3. It is not accurate enough for line of sight aiming. They don't even give you the option in TC4 if you use a Move instead of the GC3. In Razing storm, where the crosshairs are visible with both devices, there is noticbly more lag with the Move.

The Guncon 3 has calibration issues to work out. I found that the sensors and gun have to be in the correct USB as it only works properly one way. After precise calibration it's the most accurate home gun for HD displays currently available though. I've tried them all...

Both devices are bettter than an Aimtrak.


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 Post subject: Re: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:38 am 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 578
Gosh I didn't know that. I was startled by how the Guncon 3 was basically a glorified Wiimote (which is okay for some games like Umbrella Chronicles, RE4 etc) and would have thought that by now they'd have something better, but apparently not.


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 Post subject: Re: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:12 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 819
I just bought a Guncon 3 bundle with Time Crisis 4 - besides the game and the gun, you just need those two sensors, right? Somebody said there's a "correct" USB slot to use with each? I have a Phat/launch PS3 - any tips? I'm assuming the complete-in-box kit I bought will have directions - but probably just put the 2x sensors on top of, and on opposite sides, of your TV?

I'm super happy to hear that you can aim with the actual sights on the gun (and NOT have to depend on the crosshairs on-screen although they're still there). I honestly still don't believe it so I'll have to see for myself. Is the Guncon 3 like my Aimtrak on MAME, that if I move literally a mere ~10" forward or backwards from where I calibrated it, that the point-of-aim is off by a couple inches?

I'm looking to buy the Razing Storm collection as well so I get the other two Guncon 3 compatible games. It seems like Time Crisis 4 (from the above gun/game bundle) can't be played with the Move, that only the Razing Storm version of TC4 can also use the Move controller? (but you loose the FPS version of the game or something)

I don't have a Move - but are any of the other "light gun" games worth playing on the PS3? Seems to be a ton of them actually (and thankfully many non-Cabela hunting titles). I'm usually turned off when I can't aim via the gun's sights themselves (and have to use the on-screen crosshairs), but I have to say I kinda did like the Wii's House of the Dead Overkill (but enjoy HoTD 1, 2, 3 via actual light guns on CRT TV's a TON better).


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 Post subject: Re: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:31 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 578
Yeah HotD Overkill was surprisingly fun even with the wiimote, also the Resident Evil Chronicles games.

Unfortunately from what I remember yes, if you move with the Guncon3 you'll have to recalibrate.


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 Post subject: Re: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:56 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 470
Dochartaigh wrote:
I just bought a Guncon 3 bundle with Time Crisis 4 - besides the game and the gun, you just need those two sensors, right? Somebody said there's a "correct" USB slot to use with each? I have a Phat/launch PS3 - any tips? I'm assuming the complete-in-box kit I bought will have directions - but probably just put the 2x sensors on top of, and on opposite sides, of your TV?

I'm super happy to hear that you can aim with the actual sights on the gun (and NOT have to depend on the crosshairs on-screen although they're still there). I honestly still don't believe it so I'll have to see for myself. Is the Guncon 3 like my Aimtrak on MAME, that if I move literally a mere ~10" forward or backwards from where I calibrated it, that the point-of-aim is off by a couple inches?

I'm looking to buy the Razing Storm collection as well so I get the other two Guncon 3 compatible games. It seems like Time Crisis 4 (from the above gun/game bundle) can't be played with the Move, that only the Razing Storm version of TC4 can also use the Move controller? (but you loose the FPS version of the game or something)

I don't have a Move - but are any of the other "light gun" games worth playing on the PS3? Seems to be a ton of them actually (and thankfully many non-Cabela hunting titles). I'm usually turned off when I can't aim via the gun's sights themselves (and have to use the on-screen crosshairs), but I have to say I kinda did like the Wii's House of the Dead Overkill (but enjoy HoTD 1, 2, 3 via actual light guns on CRT TV's a TON better).


You'll know straight away if you choose the wrong USB port because the crosshairs (on the calibration screen) will be jumping all over the place and / or it won't register any of your shots (in calibration). In this scenario, just switch them around. Then choose the "precise calibration". Not sure why they offer "basic calibration" as precise only takes a few seconds...

The Razing storm disc has every GC3 compatible game on it. The PlayStation guy at Namco obviously died soon after it's release because Namco stopped making console games to focus on making games for the flourishing arcade business....genius.... I have never even seen TC5....

I have a bunch of other shooting games on the PS3 but all the rest are more like Wii shooting games with on-screen crosshairs. Some are ok if you like something more in depth. Kill Zone, for example, is a shooting game that also uses the Move nunchucks so you can move as well as shoot. It's the future!

There is also the Big Buck Hunter games which have their own custom gun which is just as sh*t as an Aimtrak. I would avoid these personally.

In all honesty, aside from the Razing Storm disc and the HOtD discs, I think the Wii is slightly better for shooting games with onscreen crosshairs (I have both). The Wii has a bunch of old Sega Arcade shooters like Ghost Squad and LA Machine Guns / Gunblade (2 games on one disc) etc.

Neither the PS3 or Wii is anywhere close to being as good for shooting games as the PS2 (or PS1) simply because of the GC2.


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 Post subject: Re: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:41 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 578
Guess I have to try the guncon 3 again cause clearly I never calibrated it properly. The thing was about as accurate as a wiimote.

Yes what ever happened to Time Crisis 5 anyway. I remember trailers and then nothing. I'd love a Guncon 4, this time get it right, and release this on the PS4, would be great.


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 Post subject: Re: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:06 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1054
Taiyaki wrote:
Guess I have to try the guncon 3 again cause clearly I never calibrated it properly. The thing was about as accurate as a wiimote.

Yes what ever happened to Time Crisis 5 anyway. I remember trailers and then nothing. I'd love a Guncon 4, this time get it right, and release this on the PS4, would be great.

What would a Guncon 4 even be?

Couldn't be based on existing approaches, since pretty much ever light gun besides the Zapper, Guncon 3, Wiimote, and PS Move relies on the electron beam from a CRT, which no LCDs currently attempt to simulate (and which is something I'm not even sure is feasible or would work at all); and the Guncon 3, Wiimote, and PS Move rely on camera recognition, which is laggy and requires line-of-sight between the camera and the light source, and the Guncon 3's implementation decalibrates easily.

Maybe something could be done to update the Guncon 3. The head tracking systems for current VR solutions also use IR, but are fast and smooth; and using four IR emitters, one at each corner of the display, instead of the two used by the Guncon 3, could avoid decalibration issues by giving the tracking system a better idea of the dimensions of the display.


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 Post subject: Re: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:30 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 819
Classicgamer wrote:
You'll know straight away if you choose the wrong USB port because the crosshairs (on the calibration screen) will be jumping all over the place and / or it won't register any of your shots (in calibration).


So the 2x sensors are actually getting feedback from the gun then, right? And not simply IR LED's like the Wii and Aimtrak uses (which can be plugged into the TV for a power source and not the console/computer itself).

Does everybody have the 2x sensors hanging in front of your TV (blocking the TV a little bit) with the weighted straps behind? That would kinda drive me crazy - think I might use double sided tape velcro strips or something (already have an Aimtrack bar on my TV which the Wii can use too, and I turn the TV into TATE mode all the time so I want to find something semi-permament for these).


If I try the Guncon 3 on my 65" TV am I going to have any issues? Instructions say 50" max... (and even on my 49" in my game room the left/right sensor are a good 6" shy of the edges of the TV before the wire length runs out).


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 Post subject: Re: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:21 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 470
Dochartaigh wrote:
Classicgamer wrote:
You'll know straight away if you choose the wrong USB port because the crosshairs (on the calibration screen) will be jumping all over the place and / or it won't register any of your shots (in calibration).


So the 2x sensors are actually getting feedback from the gun then, right? And not simply IR LED's like the Wii and Aimtrak uses (which can be plugged into the TV for a power source and not the console/computer itself).

Does everybody have the 2x sensors hanging in front of your TV (blocking the TV a little bit) with the weighted straps behind? That would kinda drive me crazy - think I might use double sided tape velcro strips or something (already have an Aimtrack bar on my TV which the Wii can use too, and I turn the TV into TATE mode all the time so I want to find something semi-permament for these).


If I try the Guncon 3 on my 65" TV am I going to have any issues? Instructions say 50" max... (and even on my 49" in my game room the left/right sensor are a good 6" shy of the edges of the TV before the wire length runs out).


The Guncon 3 uses two sensors . The Wii remote and Aimtrak use one. With this type of CCD gun, the more sensors the better. The tech inside the TC4 arcade gun is essentially the same as in a GC3 but the arcade uses 10 sensors positioned all around the screen.

The additional sensor is what makes the GC3 accurate enough (just) for line of sight aiming. With just one point of reference for positional accuracy, the Aimtrack and Wii remote struggle.

The sensors on the GC3 don't cover the screen. They are positioned above it and on either side on mine. They were designed for an age where screen had a decent size bezel.

To use it on a 65" screen, you would have to mod the cable connecting the two sensors as it is not long enough for a 65" 16:9 tv. I think that if you cut and extend the cable, it would work but I haven't tried it.


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 Post subject: Re: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:26 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 470
nmalinoski wrote:
Taiyaki wrote:
Guess I have to try the guncon 3 again cause clearly I never calibrated it properly. The thing was about as accurate as a wiimote.

Yes what ever happened to Time Crisis 5 anyway. I remember trailers and then nothing. I'd love a Guncon 4, this time get it right, and release this on the PS4, would be great.

What would a Guncon 4 even be?

Couldn't be based on existing approaches, since pretty much ever light gun besides the Zapper, Guncon 3, Wiimote, and PS Move relies on the electron beam from a CRT, which no LCDs currently attempt to simulate (and which is something I'm not even sure is feasible or would work at all); and the Guncon 3, Wiimote, and PS Move rely on camera recognition, which is laggy and requires line-of-sight between the camera and the light source, and the Guncon 3's implementation decalibrates easily.

Maybe something could be done to update the Guncon 3. The head tracking systems for current VR solutions also use IR, but are fast and smooth; and using four IR emitters, one at each corner of the display, instead of the two used by the Guncon 3, could avoid decalibration issues by giving the tracking system a better idea of the dimensions of the display.


The GC4 should be based on the Time Crisis 5 arcade gun. If they had any sense, which they don't, they would make one with 10 sensors and recoil like the arcade. Oh, and two actual pedals so the game can be played properly. The GC 1, 2 and 3 not coming with pedals is an abomination.

I think we are at a point where gamers are older and have more disposable income. We have already seen with racing wheels that people are prepared to invest in high quality peripherals with arcade-like features such as force feedback etc. Even Best Buy are selling $400 wheels for the PS4 and One


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 Post subject: Re: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:22 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 578
I wish. But it seems like the light gun genre has gone out of fashion. Needs a renaissance led by some smart peripheral designer who releases a light gun like you described, with Namco would do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Guncon 3 vs ps move for Time Crisis 4?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:43 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 470
Taiyaki wrote:
I wish. But it seems like the light gun genre has gone out of fashion. Needs a renaissance led by some smart peripheral designer who releases a light gun like you described, with Namco would do it.


It is arcades that have gone out of fashion and that is where these games used to come from. That's why it seems so strange that Namco would suddenly decide to only release new games for the coin-op market given that it barely exists anymore.

My best guess is that somebody at Namco took offense to some of the criticism of TC4 on the PS3 and part of their tantrum is not giving us home versions of TC5.

My second best guess is that some moron at Namco thinks people are not shoveling coins into arcade machine anymore because they could play a version that was just as good at home. They can't see that there are no arcades, even if we wanted to use them. So it's on a console or nothing.

Luckily for us there is an enormous back catelog of arcade games for us to enjoy so whatever.


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