GBA AGS-101 interlaced screen?

[thebigcheese]

I see a lot of talk about the AGS-101 having the best GBA screen, but I'm now seeing a few places (sources below) people mentioning that it uses an interlaced screen. And indeed, looking at a slow-mo video, it does seem like it's alternating fields: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I_BT9e3LdU. I've not seen any mention of that here or on RetroRGB and it kinda seems like a big deal. In my own experience, I can say that I've seen at least one instance of a sprite flickering on an AGS-101 screen whereas there is no flickering on the same sprite on a DS Lite. Is this a known thing? There's also mention of a pot that can be adjusted that may mitigate some of that, but I'm not finding much documentation on that.

Sources (not saying these are authoritative or anything):
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gameboy/commen ... the_wierd/ "all 32-pin model GBAs have interlacing, regardless if its backlit or not."
https://gbatemp.net/threads/ags-101-scanlines.337233/ (pot adjustment)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gameboy/commen ... een_issue/ (more on pot adjustment)
https://www.reddit.com/r/retrogaming/co ... y_advance/ (this is where I got the video link)

[mikejmoffitt]

An LCD pixel element rotates between 0 degrees and 90 degrees, with one side representing full opacity and another full transparency (which being a property of the polarizer orientation). However, similar to any object that is repeatedly bent in one direction, it can get a little "stuck" towards a position it has been rotated towards a lot (I think because of capacitance, but the exact reason is beyond my understanding). To mitigate this, nearly every active-matrix LCD actually inverts the rotation direction every other refresh.

So, on frame 1, it'd be a swing from 0 to 90 degrees.
On frame 2, though, it'd be from 0 to -90 degrees.

The end result for both sides is actually the same, since it's just gating light. However, this is a precise task, perfectly inverting the swing of the rotation. Without this swing, "ghosting" effects can take place, as the crystal element gets a bias towards a rotation.

Often, LCDs will have an adjustment potentiometer, to center this inversion swing. With that pot, you are looking to balance the 90/-90 swing, such that they are centered around a common zero.

How LCDs do this varies between manufacturers and models. Many laptop and desktop LCDs will have every other pixel be the opposite of its neighbor, so the inversion is out of phase in a checkerboard pattern. Some have a 1x2 checkerboard.

The GBA and GBC LCDs invert by line. Many small TFTs use this pattern. When you adjust that balance potentiometer, an effect that looks much like interlacing takes place, as the effects of the misbalance become visible on a per-line basis, and it changes between even and odd lines every frame. In this situation, the contrast can become a bit worse, too.

I don't think the GBA LCD truly only scans 80 of its 160 active vertical lines, but I do know that the LCD data coming out of the GBA is a full progressive scan, the whole 240x160 display size.

The DS lite and later backlit GBA SP screens don't flicker much because they are smeary blurry pieces of shit, lol

[thebigcheese]

I don't think the GBA LCD truly only scans 80 of its 160 active vertical lines, but I do know that the LCD data coming out of the GBA is a full progressive scan, the whole 240x160 display size.

The DS lite and later backlit GBA SP screens don't flicker much because they are smeary blurry pieces of shit, lol

That's why it was so confusing. All the games output in progressive, I couldn't see any reason why it would be an interlaced panel. Your explanation makes a lot more sense, though I will disagree on the DS Lite point :p I rather like the screen, just hate that it's a clamshell.

[BazookaBen]

I've noticed it on my standard AGB-001 when in direct sunlight. It's not like typical interlacing from what I can tell, I think it's a side effect of the display works, as mike said. If anything, it's like it's scanning at 120hz, because I'm not noticing a reduction resolution in motion like you do on, say, a 480i TV.

The DS lite and later backlit GBA SP screens don't flicker much because they are smeary blurry pieces of shit, lol

Yeah the AGS-101 screen is blurry in motion but the saturation blows away all the other screens. Trade off is totally worth it.

[fernan1234]

I'm really confused by the varying assessments of the picture quality of AGS-101 and NDS Lite that I see sometimes. Maybe there's just a lot of variation across different screens for the same models.

In my experience, the DS Lite is not blurry at all, and is crisper and more vivid than the AGS-101 (smaller picture size/higher pixel density helps here). In terms of motion, I rarely notice ghosting on both screens. The real issue is that both screens show raw/saturated colors for GBA games which were designed with the original unlit AGS-001 screen in mind. Strangely, it's the GBA Micro OXY-001 that has the best screen in terms of color accuracy (and also an even better pixel density due to being so damn tiny). It's the only console that Nintendo designed with both backlit and accurate colors in mind. Too bad it doesn't do GBC games, as then we would probably also have accurate GBC colors on a backlit screen, something currently unavailable.

On the other hand, the OXY-001 screen has by far the most noticeable ghosting or motion blur out of all the backlit screens I've seen, though I've heard of people saying otherwise. Contrast is also not as good as the other two.

If only we could have a Nintendo handheld with all the good and none of the bad! In my dream I see a handheld with the same pixel size as the AGS-001, same colors as AGS-001/OXY-001, backlit, no ghosting (or at least as little as that of the Lite or 101), and GB/C compatibility!

[Ikaruga11]

I see a lot of talk about the AGS-101 having the best GBA screen, but I'm now seeing a few places (sources below) people mentioning that it uses an interlaced screen.

Nintendo handhelds have never used an interlaced display.

The real issue is that both screens show raw/saturated colors for GBA games which were designed with the original unlit AGS-001 screen in mind.

Most GBA games were designed with the original AGB-001 in mind, but the unlit screen meant games weren't displayed with their actual brightness, contrast and colors. The AGS-101 fixes this by using a backlit screen, which does an excellent job of displaying the actual brightness, contrast and colors of GBA games.

Strangely, it's the GBA Micro OXY-001 that has the best screen in terms of color accuracy (and also an even better pixel density due to being so damn tiny).

The GameBoy Micro has a much higher pixel density than any other display with native GBA hardware, but the colors are much less accurate. The colors are far too dull and unsaturated.

[fernan1234]

Most GBA games were designed with the original AGB-001 in mind, but the unlit screen meant games weren't displayed with their actual brightness, contrast and colors. The AGS-101 fixes this by using a backlit screen, which does an excellent job of displaying the actual brightness, contrast and colors of GBA games.

The GameBoy Micro has a much higher pixel density than any other display with native GBA hardware, but the colors are much less accurate. The colors are far too dull and unsaturated.

Well, the AGS-101 looks beautiful and vibrant, but the fact is that it's also giving you oversaturated and inaccurate colors. In comparison to it, the Micro looks dull and unsaturated, but the latter is in fact more accurate to what game designers intended. The raw colors shown by the AGS-101 (and unfiltered emulators) are the result of designers overshooting the colors so that they look as intended on the unlit AGS-001 screen, and the Micro is the only official system that accounts for this.

There has been a lot of work for providing corrected colors for GBA (and also NDS) games. The upcoming GBA consolizer has the option for color correction, and so does the GBI. A lot of it is based on the Gambatte emulator's correction and/or the work by Pokefan531 for the Retroarch color shaders. There's a lot of good info here: https://forums.libretro.com/t/real-gba- ... s/1540/158

BTW, the Game Boy Color has the same problem when played on backlit consoles. Don't get me wrong, GBC games also look awesome on an AGS-101, but the colors are wrong, sadly.

[Ikaruga11]

The raw colors shown by the AGS-101 (and unfiltered emulators)

Sprites ripped directly from the ROMs is the source and reference material for what constitutes accurate colors. Since the AGS-101 is closer in hue and saturation to the sprite rips than the OXY-001, it is more accurate.

And yes, a lot of SNES games ported to the GBA had their color palettes excessively brightened so that the game could be seen on the original unlit GameBoy Advance.

[fernan1234]

The raw colors shown by the AGS-101 (and unfiltered emulators)

Sprites ripped directly from the ROMs is the source and reference material for what constitutes accurate colors. Since the AGS-101 is closer in hue and saturation to the sprite rips than the OXY-001, it is more accurate.

And yes, a lot of SNES games ported to the GBA had their color palettes excessively brightened so that the game could be seen on the original unlit GameBoy Advance.

Again, the source colors were purposefully oversaturated to compensate for the dim screen of the original GBA, which also works with a different color space than the backlit screens. It is factually incorrect to consider them accurate as displayed on the AGS-101. Once again I invite you to review the information in the libretro thread.

[Ikaruga11]

The raw colors shown by the AGS-101 (and unfiltered emulators)

Sprites ripped directly from the ROMs is the source and reference material for what constitutes accurate colors. Since the AGS-101 is closer in hue and saturation to the sprite rips than the OXY-001, it is more accurate.

And yes, a lot of SNES games ported to the GBA had their color palettes excessively brightened so that the game could be seen on the original unlit GameBoy Advance.

Again, the source colors were purposefully oversaturated to compensate for the dim screen of the original GBA, which also works with a different color space than the backlit screens. It is factually incorrect to consider them accurate as displayed on the AGS-101. Once again I invite you to review the information in the libretro thread.

This is only true for the SNES ports. There's no evidence suggesting that brand new GBA games over-saturated their colors to counteract a dim screen. In fact, later titles like The Minish Cap (2005) were most likely developed with the AGS-101 in mind as the Bright Setting in the options menu is meant for unlit screens, while the Normal Setting is meant for lit screens. And again, those are the source colors. The AGB-001, AGS-001 and OXY-001 do not display the source colors. The unlit and frontlit screens were a limitation that developers had to work around. The AGS-101 does display the source colors more accurately. This is like saying Sonic 1 is more accurately displayed with the limitations of Composite because the developers intended for things like the waterfall to blend with composite video. Even though Sonic 1 was developed on a backlit RGB Monitor.

[fernan1234]

This is only true for the SNES ports. There's no evidence suggesting that brand new GBA games over-saturated their colors to counteract a dim screen. In fact, later titles like The Minish Cap (2005) were most likely developed with the AGS-101 in mind as the Bright Setting in the options menu is meant for unlit screens, while the Normal Setting is meant for lit screens. And again, those are the source colors. The AGB-001, AGS-001 and OXY-001 do not display the source colors. The unlit and frontlit screens were a limitation that developers had to work around. The AGS-101 does display the source colors more accurately. This is like saying Sonic 1 is more accurately displayed with the limitations of Composite because the developers intended for things like the waterfall to blend with composite video. Even though Sonic 1 was developed on a backlit RGB Monitor.

It's an entirely different issue than the RGB vs. Composite one on older home consoles. There's tons of evidence of non-SNES port games having oversaturated colors on backlit screens and emulators on the libretro thread I linked, but here's one of the most obvious examples:



Can you honestly say that the image to the right is how this game is supposed to look? That's how the game looks on an AGS-101. Another one that's really obvious and easy to check is the title screen for Wario Land 4. Also the intro scene of Golden Sun:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWbanjnE1LU

Isaac's house is not supposed to be that garish yellow. It's brown with the correct colors displayed on an AGS-001, OXY-001, and also on a phat DS screen. Brightness settings available in some games help a bit, but the problem is not really about brightness level but color space.

Speaking of the latter and more on topic, the old phat DS screen is actually a nice compromise of adequate brightness, screen size, accurate colors, less ghosting than the backlit screens, and, to my eye, no "interlacing" effect.

[Link83]

I'm really confused by the varying assessments of the picture quality of AGS-101 and NDS Lite that I see sometimes. Maybe there's just a lot of variation across different screens for the same models.

Up until the GBC Nintendo had been pretty consistent and only used SHARP manufactured screens, the problem is during the GBA era they also started using other screen manufacturers such as AU Optronics, Hitachi, Japan Display Inc, etc and these screens are sometimes better and sometimes worse (When TV manufactures do this its usually called a "panel lottery" because you never know what type of screen your going to get) Nintendo recently became much more widely known for this practice with the New 3DS/3DS XL and the "TN or IPS screen" issue (SHARP or JDI screens) but this problem has been around a lot longer than that.

For the DS Lite a number of people started noticing that some newer DS Lite's had poor viewing angles and ghosting:-
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/nintendo ... ly.184199/
The images are missing now but I saved one of them:-

This is due to Nintendo using screens manufactured by both SHARP and Hitachi, which means everyone's experience of a DS Lite screen is anecdotal at best.

I have done some research into Nintendo screen manufacturers over the past couple of years and from my 'findings' all of the following Nintendo systems can have at least two or more screen manufacturers:-

Game Boy Advance
Game Boy Advance SP (AGS-101)
Nintendo DS Lite
Nintendo DSi
New Nintendo 3DS
New Nintendo 3DS XL
Wii U GamePad
Nintendo Switch

There could be more but these are just the systems I can confirm - and that doesn't even take into account the normal screen temperature variance or factory color calibration.

Unfortunately I have yet to see anyone make a proper manufacturer/screen quality comparison.

[Ikaruga11]

Thanks for the info, Link83. I always knew that the Nintendo DSi had inconsistent quality control, as I got yellow-tinted top screen and a blue-tinted bottom screen. But I had no idea that Nintendo used multiple screen manufacturers for anything but the New 3DS and New 3DS XL.

Game Boy Advance SP (AGS-101): What color/model or serial number should I look for to find the good screens and avoid the bad screens?
Nintendo DS Lite: What color/model or serial number should I look for to find the good screens and avoid the bad screens?
New Nintendo 3DS: What color/model or serial number should I look for to find the good screens and avoid the bad screens?
Wii U GamePad: What color/model or serial number should I look for to find the good screens and avoid the bad screens?
Nintendo Switch: What color/model or serial number should I look for to find the good screens and avoid the bad screens?

[fernan1234]

That's some really neat info Link83. Really valuable for the Nintendo handheld fan. I take you haven't done tests on a DSi XL/LL? I've heard those had really good screens. I got a cheap used one a while back but haven't really gotten around to use it much, but the screens looked fine, dimmer (similar to a 3DS XL) even at max brightness than the DS Lite I have, with less oversaturated colors than the DSL, and the two screens seemed to have the same white balance. The viewing angles were excellent, contrast did not shift at all when angling the screens in any direction. It's a real shame it doesn't do GBA games.

Most of my DS play has been on a DSL Zelda Phantom Hourglass edition though (serial # UG46499214), which always impressed me with how vibrant it is. In terms of vibrancy and sharpness it's the best I've seen on any handheld. It also has no ghosting I can notice, at least on that model. Of course, the colors are too saturated, though some may like it because of that, and the contrast shifts dramatically even with slight angle changes.

I've also heard from people who claim that recently available 3rd party "AGS-101" replacement screens may even be better than at least some of the original AGS-101 screens. A lot of people put them into original GBAs and they look pretty good.

[Link83]

Thanks for the info, Link83. I always knew that the Nintendo DSi had inconsistent quality control, as I got yellow-tinted top screen and a blue-tinted bottom screen. But I had no idea that Nintendo used multiple screen manufacturers for anything but the New 3DS and New 3DS XL.

Well i'll try my best to give a bit more information for each system you mentioned. Note that there is no serial numbers because nobody has compiled this information, and unfortunately in most cases there isn't really any way to externally tell which screen you might have (Hence the 'panel lottery')

Also remember that screen color temperatures and uniformity can vary alot, even between screens from the same manufacturer or production run. For example you can often find the exact same screen part number with either a yellow, magenta or cyan 'push' to the color temperature, which can be especially irritating on DS/DSi/3DS systems due to having two screens that dont match each other.

...I think what i'm trying to say is - be careful not to go too deep down this particular rabbit hole, because its almost enough to drive you crazy once you start trying to chase the "perfect screen"

Game Boy Advance SP (AGS-101)
Appears to be a mix between between SHARP and an unknown manufacturer (I think AU Optronics but there doesn't seem to be any manufacturer logo, only a part number which always starts with "702A")

With the advent of modding AGS-101 screens into AGB-001 system these two screen types have been called "White tab" and "Brown tab" (Or sometimes "Type A" and "Type B") by the community:-
https://i.imgur.com/2J3p4cT.jpg
Sometimes one of these is incorrectly thought to be a third-party reproduction screen, but that isnt the case as I have owned both types for many years before AGS-101 screen mods even appeared.

From memory white tabs are SHARP screens, with the other brown tabs the 'unknown' manufacturer. Both screens seem to have a fairly slow pixel response, although one is perhaps slightly worse than the other. Its been some years since I looked into this, but I seem to recall the SHARP screen was slightly better - unfortunately I dont have the equipment needed to perform a more detailed comparison.

Also worth noting that there are some technical differences in the signals used between the two screen types - hence the need for people to differentiate between them.

Nintendo DS Lite
Early systems have SHARP manufactured screens, which seems to have better viewing angles and response times (Less ghosting) than the later Hitachi screens, however SHARP continued to produce DS Lite screens throughout the systems lifetime so its a lottery which one you'll get. I think Hitachi screens declined in use around the time of the price fixing scandal:-
http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/28/hita ... uspicions/
https://tech.nikkeibp.co.jp/dm/english/ ... 19/163084/
However Hitachi screens came back with the DSi mid way through its lifespan, so obviously Nintendo didnt fall out with Hitachi for long! (<I dont actually know if they did fall out)

New Nintendo 3DS
There are plenty of youtube comparisons showing the difference between SHARP (TN) and JDI (IPS) 3DS screens, and its fairly easy to tell them apart when you hold them both at an angle. In addition homebrew software like 3DSident can tell you which type of screen you have. Availability seems to have varied massively by region/production run, and although US dual IPS systems exist (White being most common) I have yet to see a single European dual IPS system

Wii U GamePad
Early screens were all made by Hitachi, but sometime in late 2013/early 2014 Nintendo also added Panasonic screens into the mix. Firmware support for the Panasonic screens was added in system software 4.0.0 released in October 2013:-
"Added a driver for another LCD panel from Panasonic: lcd_mc838985."
http://libdrc.org/docs/re/changelog.html

Panasonic screens are apparently a bit better than the Hitachi models:-
https://gbatemp.net/threads/interested- ... en.447045/
https://gbatemp.net/threads/interested- ... st-6794033
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/63 ... u/72977742
However I dont own one to compare

I also created this image to show sellers what to look for when I was trying to buy a replacement Panasonic screen from Aliexpress:-
https://i.imgur.com/s5RsXMV.png
However they still sent me a Hitachi screen

Given that the White 8GB Basic pack was the least popular bundle and was seemingly discontinued quite quickly I imagine the Panasonic screens are only found in the later Black 32GB Premium packs.

Nintendo Switch
The majority of launch models have screens made by JDI (Japan Display Inc) but very soon after launch screens by Innolux Corp and AU Optronics were added. This is shown in Nintendo's financial reports:-
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ninten ... tch.15184/
Although the chart shows SHARP as a screen supplier, this includes all screens manufactured for Nintendo - including the 3DS. I dont believe SHARP have manufactured any Switch screens yet.

Here are some threads with Switch screen comparison which likely show at least one or two different Switch screen manufacturers-
https://gbatemp.net/threads/need-help-w ... en.482935/
https://gbatemp.net/threads/nintendo-sw ... on.466647/
https://gbatemp.net/threads/difference- ... ty.516254/
Of course screen color temperature plays a big part in these comparisons, and curently without dissasembly there is no way to know who the manufacturer is of any particular screen. The JDI screens are known to use a cooler blue screen temperature, which often makes them appear brighter than the rest.

That's some really neat info Link83. Really valuable for the Nintendo handheld fan. I take you haven't done tests on a DSi XL/LL? I've heard those had really good screens.

Actually yes I have a folder full of pictures and a long list of Nintendo screen part numbers and manufacturers for each console! (Always thought I would add the info to a wiki or write an article, but never got around to it) Its just I only listed the systems which I know used more than one screen manufacturer.

DSi XL screens are manufactured by Hitachi and are IPS panels as described in this page of Iwata Asks:-
https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-Asks/I ... 11837.html
The only issue I have found with them appears to be color temperature variation between panels. I personally really llike the DSi XL screens, and its my prefered system for playing DS/DSi games

I hope that helps!

[bobrocks95]

DSi XL screens are manufactured by Hitachi and are IPS panels as described in this page of Iwata Asks:-
https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-Asks/I ... 11837.html
The only issue I have found with them appears to be color temperature variation between panels. I personally really llike the DSi XL screens, and its my prefered system for playing DS/DSi games

I hope that helps!

Unfortunately the two screens on my DSi XL have wildly different color temperatures, it's extremely annoying for any game that spans both screens and decently ignorable for games with two different sorts of screen content.

[fernan1234]

What wealth of info! Thanks for sharing all of that.

If I can pick your knowledge one more time, did you ever look into Game Boy Micro screens? I really really like the screen on the one I own, but at the same time I'm bothered by a lot of ghosting on it and the fact that a black screen looks "dirty" on it (kind of like a posterized black) at high brightness levels. I wonder if I had bad lottery luck with it or if that's how those tiny screens are. They were probably very cheap (the Micro after all was only USD 99 retail).

[Ikaruga11]

Wow, absolutely incredible! Thank you so much for sharing this wealth of information with us, Link83. The Nintendo handheld communities desperately need these details all compiled into one easily navigable thread or database. That being said, I have several Nintendo handhelds I'd like to know if they use the good screens or the bad screens.

Nintendo DS Lite: Zelda Triforce Edition + Phantom Hourglass Bundle (released November 23, 2007 in the United States)
New Nintendo 3DS: Pokemon 20th Anniversary Dual IPS (released February 27, 2016 in the United States) I heard some 3DSes have better IPS screens than others.
Wii U GamePad: Zelda Wind Waker Deluxe Edition Bundle (October 4, 2013 in the United States)
DSi XL: Mario 25th Anniversary + Mario Kart DS Bundle (November 7, 2010 in the United States)