Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 480p?

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Dochartaigh
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by Dochartaigh »

strygo wrote:
ross wrote: The 301 HD paired with an OSSC is a great combination.
...still haven't found a way to fix the drop-outs on OG Xbox through this combination.... like two different Xbox's (1.4 w/ VGA and 1.6 w YPbPr). Not super often but they do happen in my pretty limited testing.
fernan1234
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by fernan1234 »

Dochartaigh wrote:
strygo wrote:
ross wrote: The 301 HD paired with an OSSC is a great combination.
...still haven't found a way to fix the drop-outs on OG Xbox through this combination.... like two different Xbox's (1.4 w/ VGA and 1.6 w YPbPr). Not super often but they do happen in my pretty limited testing.
In my experience, the 301 HD does nothing to improve on HDMI signal drops due to scan rate changes.
Dochartaigh
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by Dochartaigh »

fernan1234 wrote: In my experience, the 301 HD does nothing to improve on HDMI signal drops due to scan rate changes.
I'm playing OG Xbox 480p games. OG Xbox isn't set to enable 720p so it wouldn't be going up a resolution, and certainly not dropping down to 480i (which my main Xbox is VGA modded so I don't even think that mode is enabled - have similar dropouts over component on another one fyi). Like they will be mid-race in a racing game (usually used Burnout 3 for my tests since I'm so familiar with it), not entering a menu, save spot, anything like that. Admittedly I don't know enough about the original Xbox and resolution changes and all that so I really can't comment beyond the above (but would LOVE to find out more!).
Dime0000
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by Dime0000 »

If anyone has the Extron and has seen the PCS software say "a firmware update is required to use this configuration" (or something) and then have it disconnect from the device, let me know. It was my understanding that the PCS would allow me to update the firmware....?
Dime0000
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by Dime0000 »

BuckoA51 - would you by any chance have the "firmware loader" program? Turns out this may be required for devices with older firmware (as I seem to have). Thanks!
beflapje
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by beflapje »

Hello ,

i got go myself a Extron DSC 301 HD with a rather old firmware .
Found this thread and hoping that someone could pass me the latest firmware & control software .

Regards

Beflapje
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Kez
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by Kez »

I have also been experiencing similar dropouts when playing 480p GameCube games, going GC->OSSC->Extron. Tried experimenting with all the various HDMI compatibility settings on the OSSC to seemingly no avail, the issue is really intermittent and sometimes won't happen at all whereas other sessions it happens quite frequently.

It's a shame as otherwise I have been really happy with the image quality of this setup!
Dochartaigh
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by Dochartaigh »

Kez wrote:I have also been experiencing similar dropouts when playing 480p GameCube games, going GC->OSSC->Extron. Tried experimenting with all the various HDMI compatibility settings on the OSSC to seemingly no avail, the issue is really intermittent and sometimes won't happen at all whereas other sessions it happens quite frequently.
NOTE: Kez's setup is NOT DOING RESOLUTION SWITCHES... i.e. pure 480p-only. Just like my OG Xbox is 480p only (NEVER dropping down to 480i), and still has drop-outs occasionally too.

Just mentioning this because on previous pages people said it could have been from resolution changes and the HDMI handshake or whatever being disrupted, but that isn't the case here... the DSC 301 HD is dropping the signal, period.
Guile
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by Guile »

I first noticed these drops on a Dreamcast and posted about it here viewtopic.php?f=6&t=68541. It also happens with a Wii but seems to not affect the PS2.

I'm pretty sure I completely eliminated the drops by putting a GBS-C before the OSSC on the vga port. I remember testing games for a while on Xbox, Dreamcast and Wii without a single drop. The GBS-C is very good at stabilizing odd signals. I haven't tested something for several hours at once but I was impressed by the lack of drops which usually happened pretty reliably every 20-30 minutes at least and often more.

I don't remember if I tested the GBS-C going straight into the DSC 301 vga input but I think I did and it also eliminated the drops.
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kitty666cats
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by kitty666cats »

Guile wrote:I first noticed these drops on a Dreamcast and posted about it here viewtopic.php?f=6&t=68541. It also happens with a Wii but seems to not affect the PS2.

I'm pretty sure I completely eliminated the drops by putting a GBS-C before the OSSC on the vga port. I remember testing games for a while on Xbox, Dreamcast and Wii without a single drop. The GBS-C is very good at stabilizing odd signals. I haven't tested something for several hours at once but I was impressed by the lack of drops which usually happened pretty reliably every 20-30 minutes at least and often more.

I don't remember if I tested the GBS-C going straight into the DSC 301 vga input but I think I did and it also eliminated the drops.
I use an OSSC (on passthrough) w/ GBSControl’s 1080p output on my Panasonic plasma, as the VGA input of the TV has inferior processing and also expects computer resolutions. Makes the signal stable as a table!

I also found, via fucking around with settings, you can get amazing results with GBSC’s horizontal scanlines combined with the OSSC’s vertical scanlines. I believe it required both having said H & V scanlines set to 100%, plus the OSSC needing some other tweaks… I believe pre-ADC gain had to be at 100% or otherwise the colors would be fucked-up. Ideally you’d probably want to use component out of the GBS, or use a sync combiner into the SCART (OR feed R, G & B into the OSSC’s SCART, H+V into the VGA. Obviously requires dongles or breakout cables, though). That’s just because of the OSSC’s very nice LPF.

I’ll have to put the photos of these scanlines on Imgur or something. thchardcore has seen them and how they look VERY realistic/nearly indistinguishable from a CRT (unless you have quite a well-trained eye)
Dochartaigh
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by Dochartaigh »

Thanks to both of you, but saying to ADD A THIRD!!!!!>!?!?!!?!?!??! SCALER to the chain isn't really a good solution to the problem to be blatantly honest...
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kitty666cats
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by kitty666cats »

(Consider my post a tangent/an aside… haha :P )
bahamutfan64
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by bahamutfan64 »

Guile wrote:I first noticed these drops on a Dreamcast and posted about it here viewtopic.php?f=6&t=68541. It also happens with a Wii but seems to not affect the PS2.

I'm pretty sure I completely eliminated the drops by putting a GBS-C before the OSSC on the vga port. I remember testing games for a while on Xbox, Dreamcast and Wii without a single drop. The GBS-C is very good at stabilizing odd signals. I haven't tested something for several hours at once but I was impressed by the lack of drops which usually happened pretty reliably every 20-30 minutes at least and often more.

I don't remember if I tested the GBS-C going straight into the DSC 301 vga input but I think I did and it also eliminated the drops.
Changing the OSSC's settings to TX = DVI fixed the drop outs for me using a WiiDual via component. I did have to route the audio to the 301 using an RCA to 3.5mm adapter.
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RuffNEC
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by RuffNEC »

where could I buy a solid Female-Scart (RGB) to RGB Male cable for the Extron 301 HD?!
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Gara
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by Gara »

RuffNEC wrote:where could I buy a solid Female-Scart (RGB) to RGB Male cable for the Extron 301 HD?!
Retro Access could build you one with the DB15 custom cable maker. I just use the OSSC to turn it into HDMI for me before I feed it into other video processors.

https://retro-access.com/collections/custom-cables
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kitty666cats
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by kitty666cats »

RuffNEC wrote:where could I buy a solid Female-Scart (RGB) to RGB Male cable for the Extron 301 HD?!
https://www.retroupgrades.co.uk/product ... a-adapter/
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RuffNEC
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by RuffNEC »

kitty666cats wrote:
RuffNEC wrote:where could I buy a solid Female-Scart (RGB) to RGB Male cable for the Extron 301 HD?!
https://www.retroupgrades.co.uk/product ... a-adapter/
lol that's awesome , you reminded me that I still have a sync stripper that had no more purpose till now :) Btw the sync function can be left turned off for use with the extron 301 hd right?

@Gara thanks too!
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kitty666cats
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by kitty666cats »

RuffNEC wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:
RuffNEC wrote:where could I buy a solid Female-Scart (RGB) to RGB Male cable for the Extron 301 HD?!
https://www.retroupgrades.co.uk/product ... a-adapter/
lol that's awesome , you reminded me that I still have a sync stripper that had no more purpose till now :) Btw the sync function can be left turned off for use with the extron 301 hd right?

@Gara thanks too!
If you've already got csync, probably can leave it off. Though, the DSC 301 HD may need TTL level sync voltage on its input...? In which case you'd want to leave the sync stripper on
tobi
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by tobi »

My Extron DSC 301 HD does not recognize the input coming from my GCVideo adapter (576p @ 50Hz). Tried both interlaced and progressive output signal of the GCVideo but the Extron won't recognize a signal. I've tested multiple HDMI cables and other devices to rule out a technical defect. Any idea what could be the reason for this? Thanks!
fty3554
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by fty3554 »

strygo wrote:Sent. Sorry for the delay. Anyone else, please feel free to message me.
Hi, Strygo- I also just got ahold of an Extron 301 HD and am looking for any update software. I also just registered an account to contact you for this. If you could send it my way, I would very much appreciate it- thank you!
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Blair
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by Blair »

Control knob on my 301 came off... any ideas on how to fix it?

https://imgur.com/a/yjcK9pO

(warning: large images, better to use the imgur link if you are on a sub 4k monitor)
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Kez
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by Kez »

Just looks like a set screw to me. Assuming nothing is broken you should be able to just get a small hex screwdriver/allen key that fits the set screw in the bottom of the knob.

Just back the screw out a bit, push it back on and then tighten it.
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Blair
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by Blair »

Kez wrote:Just looks like a set screw to me. Assuming nothing is broken you should be able to just get a small hex screwdriver/allen key that fits the set screw in the bottom of the knob.

Just back the screw out a bit, push it back on and then tighten it.
I think that did the trick! its funny, I just recived an nvme ssd shell today and it came with the perfect hex scewdriver for the job. thanks for the advice!

(hopefully it stays in and the plastic is not brittle/defective)
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RuffNEC
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by RuffNEC »

I have rarely used it since then (only with amiga). Normally I use the ossc but with a MAK and PCB ou never know if its syncs with the monitor.

So I installed my Extron 301 and feeded the RGB signal directly into it. Syncs Perfectly with my monitor.

But how do I optimize the picture? It's a bit wobbly (not stabilized) and I feel the image is even washed out no sharp pixel look like you would get from the OSSC.

Should I let it run via OSSC firstly into the Extron ?! So all the adjustment can be made on the OSSC and then the Extron just delivers a good synced output ? :)

edit: feeding the extron via OSSC won't help. To many many sync probs aswell... so how can I adjust the scaling on the extron to be more sharp?
Dochartaigh
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by Dochartaigh »

RuffNEC wrote:Should I let it run via OSSC firstly into the Extron ?! So all the adjustment can be made on the OSSC and then the Extron just delivers a good synced output ? :)

edit: feeding the extron via OSSC won't help. To many many sync probs aswell... so how can I adjust the scaling on the extron to be more sharp?
Others probably have more experience at this than I do, but I found the DSC 301 HD to absolutely suck when you directly feed it 240p-ish (or whatever your Amiga is) source, which you then have the DSC upscale to ~1080p (i.e. WITHOUT going through the OSSC first, then the the DSC). I assume since it's a "HD" Extron model, it's really geared towards HD stuff... definitely not for super low res; I think your use-case falls outside what it is meant for, and that's why it looks so bad. This is why all I feed it is 480p+ sources.

For when you run a ~240p source though the OSSC first, then to the DSC 301 HD, you're still at the mercy of sync issues. You can search this topic for "SNES", "NES", and "dejitter" to see the issues others have. Those consoles can have an improper sync signal (it's a little bit off), and a CRT can handle that no problem, but many upscalers don't like it, nor do some modern screens... which is why there's dejitter mods for consoles like NES and SNES to correct that – could (guessing here) be a similar issue with your Amiga (although I don't know, and don't know if a fix exists if there is a similar issue).
Last edited by Dochartaigh on Mon Jan 02, 2023 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RuffNEC
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by RuffNEC »

I think it does an fairy enough good job with amiga but not too happy with the upscaling of my MAK Supergun... I hoped for being able to tweak a few settings but without the options I get it that this device is more for HD stuff.

I bought it simply for testing as it has also a very good 3d comb filter on AV stuff side
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dr_myslihiiri
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by dr_myslihiiri »

So, does anyone or their friend have access to the latest firmware (1.28.0001, released Sep. 1, 2022) and its release notes? It'd be interesting to see what has changed since the last version.

On a side note, I find it laudable that Extron is still updating the firmware of a ten year-old device in a world of planned obsolence. Chapeau!
Dochartaigh
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by Dochartaigh »

dr_myslihiiri wrote:So, does anyone or their friend have access to the latest firmware (1.28.0001, released Sep. 1, 2022) and its release notes? It'd be interesting to see what has changed since the last version.
TECH NOTES
Input Detection update – Beginning in firmware v1.04, analog RGBHV input detection has been updated to replace legacy rate 1280x960@60Hz with the more common rate 1600x900@60Hz. If a RGBHV 1280x960@60Hz input signal is in use, it can be manually adjusted for proper sampling and saved in auto memory. Both rates are still automatically detected via DVI/HDMI.





KNOWN ISSUES
The following is a list of known firmware issues found in DSC 301 HD Firmware Version 1.28.0001.



Issue (originated in v1.09) - Unstable image with Dell U2413 displays - When displaying encrypted content through the DSC 301 HD on a Dell U2413, the monitor may intermittently display a green screen or no image.
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dr_myslihiiri
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by dr_myslihiiri »

Dochartaigh wrote:TECH NOTES
Input Detection update – Beginning in firmware v1.04, analog RGBHV input detection has been updated to replace legacy rate 1280x960@60Hz with the more common rate 1600x900@60Hz. If a RGBHV 1280x960@60Hz input signal is in use, it can be manually adjusted for proper sampling and saved in auto memory. Both rates are still automatically detected via DVI/HDMI.





KNOWN ISSUES
The following is a list of known firmware issues found in DSC 301 HD Firmware Version 1.28.0001.



Issue (originated in v1.09) - Unstable image with Dell U2413 displays - When displaying encrypted content through the DSC 301 HD on a Dell U2413, the monitor may intermittently display a green screen or no image.
Thanks.

Comparing this to the release notes for v1.26 which BuckoA51 posted a few pages back, it looks like absolutely nothing has changed between versions. The actual changes for v1.26 were listed on the second page of the release notes. Was the text you quoted complete?
Dochartaigh
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Re: Extron DSC 301 HD (RGB>HDMI+scaling)-Best settings for 4

Post by Dochartaigh »

dr_myslihiiri wrote:Was the text you quoted complete?
Yes. Only other text on bottom of page is what the PREVIOUS updates did.
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