Options for using PS1 without slow cd loading times?

[Classicgamer]

Is it possible to fit a hard drive or SD card reader to a modded PS1 so it can be used without the limitations of slow cd loading times?

I can play PS1 games on my PS2 and they load very quickly on the more modern drive but there doesn't seem to be a convenient way to play our "legally made backups" for PS1 stuff. I.e. Free mcboot doesn't load non-original PS1 software. And chipping a PS2 is difficult or expensive.

[Syntax]

http://ps-io.com/

[Classicgamer]

http://ps-io.com/

That is not for me. They're selling for $250+ in the US.... For that type of cash you can get a PS2 with a mod chip and play off a proper hard drive.

Is there no other way?

[rama]

No other way at this time.
It's either backups with the original disk drive, or PSIO.

A few ideas have been thrown around for an ODE, but nothing came of it yet.

Edit:
But as you mentioned, the PS2 loads faster and much more reliable.
A PSX-only modchip solution for it exists.
Start here for more info: https://assemblergames.com/threads/inst ... ps2.64266/

[Syntax]

Learn how to use popstarter for ps2?

[thebigcheese]

http://ps-io.com/

That is not for me. They're selling for $250+ in the US.... For that type of cash you can get a PS2 with a mod chip and play off a proper hard drive.

Is there no other way?

Where are you seeing them for $250 USD? If you order direct, sure you have to wait but it's closer to $110 USD after converting from AUD. Cheaper than a lot of Everdrives...

[nmalinoski]

http://ps-io.com/

That is not for me. They're selling for $250+ in the US.... For that type of cash you can get a PS2 with a mod chip and play off a proper hard drive.

Is there no other way?

Where are you seeing them for $250 USD? If you order direct, sure you have to wait but it's closer to $110 USD after converting from AUD. Cheaper than a lot of Everdrives...

I don't think you can directly compare a PSIO to an EverDrive, because EverDrives operate like any other game cartridge, and the PSIO requires modifications to the PlayStation motherboard to even work. The price for the PSIO is indeed on par with most of the EverDrives, but that ignores the cost of installation. Think of the PSIO as more of a modchip; one that requires irreversible modification to the motherboard. :/ The GDEMU only requires a screwdriver to install, FFS.

[thebigcheese]

I don't think you can directly compare a PSIO to an EverDrive, because EverDrives operate like any other game cartridge, and the PSIO requires modifications to the PlayStation motherboard to even work. The price for the PSIO is indeed on par with most of the EverDrives, but that ignores the cost of installation. Think of the PSIO as more of a modchip; one that requires irreversible modification to the motherboard. :/ The GDEMU only requires a screwdriver to install, FFS.

I think it's fair to compare them in terms of the end result - playing backups on your real hardware. I actually think it's cool that the PSIO can be had for cheaper, but yes, that does not factor in installation costs. I sometimes forget that not everyone installs everything themselves

[nmalinoski]

I don't think you can directly compare a PSIO to an EverDrive, because EverDrives operate like any other game cartridge, and the PSIO requires modifications to the PlayStation motherboard to even work. The price for the PSIO is indeed on par with most of the EverDrives, but that ignores the cost of installation. Think of the PSIO as more of a modchip; one that requires irreversible modification to the motherboard. :/ The GDEMU only requires a screwdriver to install, FFS.

I think it's fair to compare them in terms of the end result - playing backups on your real hardware. I actually think it's cool that the PSIO can be had for cheaper, but yes, that does not factor in installation costs. I sometimes forget that not everyone installs everything themselves

Yeah, not everyone is going to have the patience, time, tools, and/or dexterity for installing a PSIO, and the installation is not going to be easy. I imagine installers would end up charging a premium over typical solder-only mods.

I bought a PSIO myself, and I don't mind a bit of soldering, but I'm really not happy that it requires cutting traces, and that they didn't bother to add any thumb screws to keep it attached to the console. Good thing I picked up spare consoles, I guess.

[ApolloBoy]

I don't think you can directly compare a PSIO to an EverDrive, because EverDrives operate like any other game cartridge, and the PSIO requires modifications to the PlayStation motherboard to even work. The price for the PSIO is indeed on par with most of the EverDrives, but that ignores the cost of installation. Think of the PSIO as more of a modchip; one that requires irreversible modification to the motherboard. :/ The GDEMU only requires a screwdriver to install, FFS.

I think it's fair to compare them in terms of the end result - playing backups on your real hardware. I actually think it's cool that the PSIO can be had for cheaper, but yes, that does not factor in installation costs. I sometimes forget that not everyone installs everything themselves

Yeah, not everyone is going to have the patience, time, tools, and/or dexterity for installing a PSIO, and the installation is not going to be easy. I imagine installers would end up charging a premium over typical solder-only mods.

I bought a PSIO myself, and I don't mind a bit of soldering, but I'm really not happy that it requires cutting traces, and that they didn't bother to add any thumb screws to keep it attached to the console. Good thing I picked up spare consoles, I guess.

It also doesn’t really work well for later consoles without a parallel port and the PSOne since you’d have a massive amount of wires to solder. I’m wondering if there will ever be an ODE that directly replaces the CD drive considering how failure-prone they are and the dwindling supply of good replacement parts.

[Classicgamer]

No other way at this time.
It's either backups with the original disk drive, or PSIO.

A few ideas have been thrown around for an ODE, but nothing came of it yet.

Edit:
But as you mentioned, the PS2 loads faster and much more reliable.
A PSX-only modchip solution for it exists.
Start here for more info: https://assemblergames.com/threads/inst ... ps2.64266/

A psx only mod chip for the PS2 sounds promising. Espiecially if it allows you load games from the hard drive. I'll take a look.

[nmalinoski]

I’m wondering if there will ever be an ODE that directly replaces the CD drive considering how failure-prone they are and the dwindling supply of good replacement parts.

I think there will be at some point, but I also think it's a far lower priority than other systems. Far more PlayStations were sold than systems that are getting ODEs, like the Dreamcast, Saturn, Sega CD, and FM Towns, so I think it's easier to get a lightly-used unit; and physical PlayStation games can be used on PS2s and PS3s as well (although not with 100% compatibility), whereas games from the aforementioned other systems only work on their respective machines, as far as I know.

I do think the original PlayStation could benefit from having a drop-in ODE, akin to the GDEMU, and that PSIO-like features, such as loading games via USB, would be entirely possible to implement without cutting traces (I'm thinking QSB on the parallel I/O pins with a flex cable running to the ODE; USB interface module on the parallel I/O).

[rama]

Well, the no-solder dream is probably a lost cause.
The external interface is lacking access to some data lines and the XA decoder.
(PSIO replaces the entire decoder to do XA.)
An internal replacement could only plug into the disk drive flat cable port, but would then have to send EF modulated signals that look like a real CD.
Probably not really feasible, even with today's hardware. (?)

That only leaves solder jobs for internal modules and trace cutting / re-routing for external ones.

[nmalinoski]

Well, the no-solder dream is probably a lost cause.
The external interface is lacking access to some data lines and the XA decoder.
(PSIO replaces the entire decoder to do XA.)

I'm not sure anyone was suggesting that the PSIO, as currently designed, would be able to be installed without soldering or cutting traces.

An internal replacement could only plug into the disk drive flat cable port, but would then have to send EF modulated signals that look like a real CD.
Probably not really feasible, even with today's hardware. (?)

This is precisely what I have been suggesting since I read about the PSIO. Why wouldn't this be possible with the kind of FPGAs that are already being used in existing ODEs?

[rama]

nmalinoski:
Try to find the 5 best solutions for real time EFM of CD data, pick the best

[LDigital]

Well, the no-solder dream is probably a lost cause.
The external interface is lacking access to some data lines and the XA decoder.
(PSIO replaces the entire decoder to do XA.)
An internal replacement could only plug into the disk drive flat cable port, but would then have to send EF modulated signals that look like a real CD.
Probably not really feasible, even with today's hardware. (?)

That only leaves solder jobs for internal modules and trace cutting / re-routing for external ones.

I’m pretty sure that is how the gdemu and Saturn ones work. It probably could be done

[rama]

As far as I know, there aren't any ODE solutions that work by replicating the EFM stream.
They all hook onto some bus, later in the data processing chain.

It would be a pretty big deal if an ODE fully replicated the actual CD analog signals.
Such a device may be compatible with, or at least easily adapted to multiple consoles

[maxtherabbit]

As far as I know, there aren't any ODE solutions that work by replicating the EFM stream.
They all hook onto some bus, later in the data processing chain.

It would be a pretty big deal if an ODE fully replicated the actual CD analog signals.
Such a device may be compatible with, or at least easily adapted to multiple consoles

This is correct

Dreamcast is "easy" by comparison since it just interfaces with IDE

[Dochartaigh]

Edit:
But as you mentioned, the PS2 loads faster and much more reliable.
A PSX-only modchip solution for it exists.
Start here for more info: https://assemblergames.com/threads/inst ... ps2.64266/

Can anybody translate that topic for a layman? I'm lost within the first couple posts to be honest. Are they installing a PS1 modchip into a PS2 so it can run burned discs like my MM3 modchip on my PS1 can or something like that?

I thought (and please correct me if I'm wrong - I'm simply going off what I've read) that the PS1 chip inside the PS2 is only used for audio on PS2 games or something like that? And that chip is only able to be used to play PS1 games when it's using the actual PS1 CD discs, and there's no way to 'hack' to it in order to play ISO's of PS1 games via the PS2's optional HDD for example?

I also thought that the poploader you can load onto the PS2 is pretty limited in the PS1 games it can play (with many having some funky errors?) since it's simply emulating PS1, and not able (due to hardware constraints?) to access the PS1 chip itself to play those PS1 games properly (which the PS2 can access the PS1 chip inside it when it reads an actual PS1 disc?).

...lots of me guessing in the above - but that understanding is why I personally went with the PSIO for my PS1. I can't attest to load times as I never really noticed any abnormally long in the games I play, but in my so-far pretty-limited testing of the PSIO it does in fact play games like Castlevania SoTN (for example once you reach the inverted castle) a lot faster than the PS1 ever did when using the actual SoTN disc.

For the PSIO, I will say that the installation of the chip inside the PS1 was the hardest mod I've ever done. I was actually super surprised it worked the first time around the install was so hard (I swore I would have screwed something up). I really needed at least a 20x jewelers loop or something - my '3rd hand' magnifying glass I sometimes use to solder with barely helped since the things you're soldering are so very small. I even had to sand my 'super fine' soldering tip down so it was smaller, as well as cutting my (previously thought of as 'super thin') solder in half with an exacto to make that small enough as well! I'm also not noticing any audio issues like people are reporting so far either - or at least nothing that makes me say 'that sounds weird to my ears'.

[maxtherabbit]

I thought (and please correct me if I'm wrong - I'm simply going off what I've read) that the PS1 chip inside the PS2 is only used for audio on PS2 games or something like that? And that chip is only able to be used to play PS1 games when it's using the actual PS1 CD discs, and there's no way to 'hack' to it in order to play ISO's of PS1 games via the PS2's optional HDD for example?

I also thought that the poploader you can load onto the PS2 is pretty limited in the PS1 games it can play (with many having some funky errors?) since it's simply emulating PS1, and not able (due to hardware constraints?) to access the PS1 chip itself to play those PS1 games properly (which the PS2 can access the PS1 chip inside it when it reads an actual PS1 disc?).

that's basically right

POPSTARTER is a steaming pile of shit even once you fully grasp how to use it - and it is full software emulation, doesn't utilise the PS1 CPU at all

[the Goat]

POPSTARTER is a steaming pile of shit even once you fully grasp how to use it - and it is full software emulation, doesn't utilise the PS1 CPU at all

Then it is not an actual solution to the problem.

[rama]

Yep, POPS is a convenient but lousy emulator. I tried a few games, all of them had glitches or wouldn't work at all.
It can't really be improved on either, since it's closed source.

Can anybody translate that topic for a layman? I'm lost within the first couple posts to be honest. Are they installing a PS1 modchip into a PS2 so it can run burned discs like my MM3 modchip on my PS1 can or something like that?

Yes, this is correct.
All the chip does is unlock the machine to read PSX games of any region or backups (no region).
This will use the PS2's native PSX mode, which has good compatibility and some benefits (faster loading, more FPS in most 3D titles).

There's just some annoyances left:
The BIOS checks the (software) region of the disk and it has to fit the console's region.
It can be worked around by using boot disks or patching an iso before burning, but it's kind of annoying to be honest.

[Dochartaigh]

Thanks guys for the info. I'm actually surprised the info I posted was mostly right lol (good educated guesses!).

Yes, this is correct.
All the chip does is unlock the machine to read PSX games of any region or backups (no region).
This will use the PS2's native PSX mode, which has good compatibility and some benefits (faster loading, more FPS in most 3D titles).

You still have to use physical discs (albeit burned PS1 CDR's) if I install a PS1 modchip on the PS2 though, correct? It still won't play PS1 ISO's stored on the PS2's HDD (through the PS1 chip inside)? I have horrible luck with optical drives which is why I'm trying to get everything to SD cards or HDD's or whatnot.

[ApolloBoy]

You still have to use physical discs (albeit burned PS1 CDR's) if I install a PS1 modchip on the PS2 though, correct? It still won't play PS1 ISO's stored on the PS2's HDD (through the PS1 chip inside)?

That's right unfortunately.

[Classicgamer]

Maybe the answer is to find a way of replacing the cd drive in a PS1 with a (much) faster one.

I am not sure what (if anything) is special about the PS1 cd drive but, for a PS1 that is modded to play backups or a blue debug station, wouldn't it just be a case of finding a compatible drive?

Playing PS1 games on the PS2 has super fast loading. Time Crisis 1 loads in 5 seconds. A drive that fast in a PS1 solves all issues.

[bobrocks95]

Maybe the answer is to find a way of replacing the cd drive in a PS1 with a (much) faster one.

I am not sure what (if anything) is special about the PS1 cd drive but, for a PS1 that is modded to play backups or a blue debug station, wouldn't it just be a case of finding a compatible drive?

Playing PS1 games on the PS2 has super fast loading. Time Crisis 1 loads in 5 seconds. A drive that fast in a PS1 solves all issues.

It would introduce its own problems too. Just like using the "Fast disc speed" option on PS2, you can improve load times on some games, and completely break others that expect a 2x disc drive when streaming data. There's a reason the disc speed setting resets to normal every time you start a PS2.

Not sure how the PSIO handles this problem. They completely reimplemented audio decoding, I guess that prevents the issue?

[nmalinoski]

Maybe the answer is to find a way of replacing the cd drive in a PS1 with a (much) faster one.

I am not sure what (if anything) is special about the PS1 cd drive but, for a PS1 that is modded to play backups or a blue debug station, wouldn't it just be a case of finding a compatible drive?

Playing PS1 games on the PS2 has super fast loading. Time Crisis 1 loads in 5 seconds. A drive that fast in a PS1 solves all issues.

It would introduce its own problems too. Just like using the "Fast disc speed" option on PS2, you can improve load times on some games, and completely break others that expect a 2x disc drive when streaming data. There's a reason the disc speed setting resets to normal every time you start a PS2.

Not sure how the PSIO handles this problem. They completely reimplemented audio decoding, I guess that prevents the issue?

My understanding is that it functions like a GDEMU, in that it streams at 1x or 2x speed, depending on what the software calls for in order to maintain compatibility, but it's effectively faster that original hardware because seek times are eliminated.

[Mobiusstriptech]

For anyone wanting to get a ps-io that can't do the switchboard install. It really is not expensive. I do them frequently and have always maintained a low price. It's still very cost effective and a well built device.

[Classicgamer]

Apparently there is a bit of software called POPS that allows you to run PS1 games from your hard drive on a fat ps2. Anyone here heard of it or used it?

If this info is accurate, that would probably be the best way to play PS1 backups.

[rama]

Yes, that's the flawed emulator. Not a great option at all.