Laserdiscs on LCD 4k TV questions?

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

Hello guys, thanks for the feedback in advance.
What is currently the "best" way to play Laserdisc movies on a 4k TV? If the recommended devices are expensive, what is a good compromise? I have CRTs but would also like to watch on the LCD TV.

I also hove these, what kind of results would I get?
iScan VP50
XRGB mini
OSSC

Thanks for the feedback:)

[nmalinoski]

If you just want to hook up a player, I would imagine your best bet would be to hook it up to the VP50 or the Framemeister. I'm not too familiar with either device, but I do know the OSSC won't be suitable for scaling video (Needs proper scaling; not line doubling/tripling/etc).

If you care about picture quality and/or preservation, and you have the budget for some additional equipment and digital storage, take a look at the Domesday Duplicator and LD Decode (Bob from RetroRGB did an interview with the project leads). You'd basically dump your LDs to storage, run the dumps through LD Decode, and that should let you encode into a format that works for you, with a potentially higher fidelity than either your player or scaling setup could provide.

[Steamflogger Boss]

The 50 would be fine, but it might not be better than your 4K tv natively if you bought a really good one. Some guys I know are swooning over the recent Bravias. I would compare native and using the 50.

I use a DVDO Duo or just an HD CRT and LD looks great on both of those. I believe the new ultra fancy Lumagens are sold out at retail now, so that's not really an option anymore. The retail on those was like $4,000+ anyway.

[nissling]

Out of your listed ones the only one I'd suggest using for Laserdisc is the VP50. The XRGB-Mini cannot handle 3:2 cadence properly, causing major combing for feature films on NTSC discs (should work fine with video content however). The OSSC doesn't handle composite or S-Video to even begin with, plus it doesn't have any real suitable deinterlacing for video or movies.

I haven't used specifically the VP50 but I have certain experience from both DVDO Edge and iScan HD+. Their comb filters aren't really that great but deinterlacing is really good for Laserdiscs. Scaling is quite decent too. Can give some ringing but overall a clearly a choice for LD than the XRGB-Mini imho.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Out of your listed ones the only one I'd suggest using for Laserdisc is the VP50. The XRGB-Mini cannot handle 3:2 cadence properly, causing major combing for feature films on NTSC discs (should work fine with video content however). The OSSC doesn't handle composite or S-Video to even begin with, plus it doesn't have any real suitable deinterlacing for video or movies.

I haven't used specifically the VP50 but I have certain experience from both DVDO Edge and iScan HD+. Their comb filters aren't really that great but deinterlacing is really good for Laserdiscs. Scaling is quite decent too. Can give some ringing but overall a clearly a choice for LD than the XRGB-Mini imho.

100% agree. The other two are not functional for this purpose. I just didn't mention them for that reason, but it is good someone laid it out there.

I've had (or still have) every DVDO under the sun besides the earlier models. The Duo in my experience is the best option for LD. The Edge should be close to the same thing but I don't know, I quickly sold the Edge I had when it wouldn't output what I wanted and I didn't need another processor collecting dust. The 50pro and 50 aren't a huge step down though. As for the comb filter, a DVD recorder is always an option. I'm very pleased with the comb filter in a unit I have. For the purposes of just using it as a comb filter one could even buy a unit where it doesn't read discs or the VCR half is busted to save money.

[orange808]

Yep. Get a "busted" DVD recorder/VCR with a solid comb filter and chain it before the DVDO. It will look pretty good that way. Although, I like the look of my Sony panel's native processing or HQV deinterlacing for LD.

I have an RCA DRC8335 that does a pretty good job as a comb filter. I think I paid $20 usd for it, because the disk and tape no longer work properly.

Not useful for gaming! Only for LD.

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

Thank You all for the great feedback..on the iScan VP50, is there any specific settings that you guys recommend? Thanks



Edit - Domesday Duplicator and LD Decode.. I just watched it..over 256GB to dump a Laserdisc?? That will be a problem. It sounds like a great project to perseveration.. for me holding the disk insetting and reading the covers is the experience also, LD movies are stupid cheap..I recently picked up a boat load of LD movies for the prince of a coke from a vending machine per laserdisc movie. What I find interesting is the old movies, sound and style on LD is interesting..I am not saying that the old movies are better, the style is different in a good way..I recently watched Gone with the Wind, Casa Blanka and movie dick.

[energizerfellow‌]

What you're really looking for is the RetroTINK-2X, which is purpose-built for this stuff (well, at least the chip it's designed around). No AC3 of RF audio input on the RetroTINK-2X itself, but any vaguely modern HDMI-equipped AV receiver will let you map one of the receiver's Toslink inputs to a HDMI video input for the audio.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Edit - Domesday Duplicator and LD Decode.. I just watched it..over 256GB to dump a Laserdisc?? That will be a problem. It sounds like a great project to perseveration.. for me holding the disk insetting and reading the covers is the experience also, LD movies are stupid cheap..I recently picked up a boat load of LD movies for the prince of a coke from a vending machine per laserdisc movie. What I find interesting is the old movies, sound and style on LD is interesting..I am not saying that the old movies are better, the style is different in a good way..I recently watched Gone with the Wind, Casa Blanka and movie dick.

Yeah, I love how older movies look on LD. I wouldn't want the Errol Flynn Robin Hood on any other format. The CAV LD is fantastic.

What you're really looking for is the RetroTINK-2X, which is purpose-built for this stuff (well, at least the chip it's designed around). No AC3 of RF audio input on the RetroTINK-2X itself, but any vaguely modern HDMI-equipped AV receiver will let you map one of the receiver's Toslink inputs to a HDMI video input for the audio.

You are the first person I have heard even suggest using the RetroTINK for LD. It's just a basic line doubler.

[orange808]

I wasn't particularly impressed with the Retrotink 2x comb filter, but that's just me.

[energizerfellow‌]

You are the first person I have heard even suggest using the RetroTINK for LD. It's just a basic line doubler.

With a S-Video input, which is the important bit for LaserDisc. There were combo LD/DVD players with YPbPr component outputs, but the LD portion only ever output, at best, S-Video.

I wasn't particularly impressed with the Retrotink 2x comb filter, but that's just me.

Comb filters are for separating out the chroma and luma from composite video. If they're already separated because your source is S-video, the comb filter isn't even needed.

[bobrocks95]

You are the first person I have heard even suggest using the RetroTINK for LD. It's just a basic line doubler.

With a S-Video input, which is the important bit for LaserDisc. There were combo LD/DVD players with YPbPr component outputs, but the LD portion only ever output, at best, S-Video.

I wasn't particularly impressed with the Retrotink 2x comb filter, but that's just me.

Comb filters are for separating out the chroma and luma from composite video. If they're already separated because your source is S-video, the comb filter isn't even needed.

Laserdiscs are natively a composite format, so using an external comb filter has a good chance of looking better than your LD player's built-in comb filter.

[orange808]

You are the first person I have heard even suggest using the RetroTINK for LD. It's just a basic line doubler.

With a S-Video input, which is the important bit for LaserDisc. There were combo LD/DVD players with YPbPr component outputs, but the LD portion only ever output, at best, S-Video.

I wasn't particularly impressed with the Retrotink 2x comb filter, but that's just me.

Comb filters are for separating out the chroma and luma from composite video. If they're already separated because your source is S-video, the comb filter isn't even needed.

Okay.

Well, most (all?) comb filters you have in LD players will be extremely dated and low quality. So, you won't want to go the direct svideo route.

Assuming you did chain a comb filter before the RetroTINK 2x, it's still going to be subpar.

The deinterlacing, cadence detection, and scaling features of the DVDO will be much more effective than simple line doubling. In fact, I understand the vp50 (among others) as DVDO's effort to outperform their initial line doublers.

[energizerfellow‌]

The deinterlacing, cadence detection, and scaling features of the DVDO will be much more effective than simple line doubling. In fact, I understand the vp50 (among others) as DVDO's effort to outperform their initial line doublers.

Are those old DVDO boxes really better at deinterlacing and reverse telecine than modern video processors in current TVs? Really? Those DVDO boxes are much loved around here for things like RGB, 240p, reclocking, and low input lag, but none of those are relevant here. The newest of those DVDO boxes came out a decade ago at this point.

Straight from Mike Chi on things like sync regeneration, bypass mode, comb filters, color balancing, edge enhancement, and interlaced video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdIgmQH4AHA&t=558

[bobrocks95]

The deinterlacing, cadence detection, and scaling features of the DVDO will be much more effective than simple line doubling. In fact, I understand the vp50 (among others) as DVDO's effort to outperform their initial line doublers.

Are those old DVDO boxes really better at deinterlacing and reverse telecine than modern video processors in current TVs? Really? Those DVDO boxes are much loved around here for things like RGB, 240p, reclocking, and low input lag, but none of those are relevant here. The newest of those DVDO boxes came out a decade ago at this point.

Straight from Mike Chi on things like sync regeneration, bypass mode, and interlaced video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdIgmQH4AHA&t=860

Your arguments are all over the place, I'm not sure what we're talking about anymore. Orange was saying the deinterlacing and reverse telecine made the DVDO a much better option over a straight linedoubler like the retrotink. Before that he was saying that the comb filter on them was a better option than using an old LD player's comb filter.

Orange even said earlier in the thread that he likes the look of his Sony TV after using an external comb filter.

[energizerfellow‌]

Your arguments are all over the place, I'm not sure what we're talking about anymore.

Other than the possibly superior comb filter on a DVDO box, is the DVDO really any better than feeding composite directly into a modern TV or receiver/RetroTINK-2X (in ADC pass-through mode so the TV does the processing)?

There's also the side issue of many current TVs no longer having any analog input support at all with more to come, along with the price/availability of the DVDO iScan boxes, if you don't already have one. The RetroTINK-2X is interesting here as it has a super clean ADC section for not much money.

[Steamflogger Boss]

You are the first person I have heard even suggest using the RetroTINK for LD. It's just a basic line doubler.

With a S-Video input, which is the important bit for LaserDisc. There were combo LD/DVD players with YPbPr component outputs, but the LD portion only ever output, at best, S-Video.

I wasn't particularly impressed with the Retrotink 2x comb filter, but that's just me.

Comb filters are for separating out the chroma and luma from composite video. If they're already separated because your source is S-video, the comb filter isn't even needed.

SVideo frequently looks worse than composite out with LD players. I'm not sure who told you Svideo is important for LD, but they are wrong.

Okay.

Well, most (all?) comb filters you have in LD players will be extremely dated and low quality. So, you won't want to go the direct svideo route.

Assuming you did chain a comb filter before the RetroTINK 2x, it's still going to be subpar.

The deinterlacing, cadence detection, and scaling features of the DVDO will be much more effective than simple line doubling. In fact, I understand the vp50 (among others) as DVDO's effort to outperform their initial line doublers.

^^^^^

Especially the part about LD player comb filters.

Your arguments are all over the place, I'm not sure what we're talking about anymore. Orange was saying the deinterlacing and reverse telecine made the DVDO a much better option over a straight linedoubler like the retrotink. Before that he was saying that the comb filter on them was a better option than using an old LD player's comb filter.

Orange even said earlier in the thread that he likes the look of his Sony TV after using an external comb filter.

I had to make sure this guy's username wasn't tripletopper. Once I did that, I am fairly sure he is just here to try and sell retrotinks.

I even said in my first post as well, compare the 50 to just using the TV. Certainly using a dvdr as a comb filter, the tv could produce better results than running through the DVDO. No one said they were the end all be all. It's just that adding a basic linedoubler isn't going to do much for LD.

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

Guys..thank you! very much for your input.. i will keep my LD viewing on my CRT.. maybe in the future we get an OSSC type for LD..

Testing -
LD to TV - looks bad
LD to V50 to TV - looks kind of ok
LD to VCR to V50 to TV - looks better than kind of ok
I was not happy with how things looked overall and moved on.

[Steamflogger Boss]

CRT is a great option.

[NJRoadfan]

Guys..thank you! very much for your input.. i will keep my LD viewing on my CRT.. maybe in the future we get an OSSC type for LD..

Testing -
LD to TV - looks bad
LD to V50 to TV - looks kind of ok
LD to VCR to V50 to TV - looks better than kind of ok
I was not happy with how things looked overall and moved on.

This reminds me of the time when some of my relatives first got FPDs. "Why does everything on TV look like crap except for the HD stations? They looked fine on the old TV!"
CRTs hide a lot of the flaws found in standard definition video.

[Classicgamer]

It's a myth that CRTs hide flaws. It is simply a case of old crt TVs being the right resolution (I.e. Pitch) to natively display SD content. Modern HD flatscreens have a fixed resolution and everything has to be scaled to that resolution. 99% of the time, the built-in upscalers on flatscreen displays are poor quality and do a bad job of upscaling 480i to 1080p (or 4K).

That same SD content run through a quality upscaler will look far better although it will never (or rarely) be as good as it is when displayed natively (I.e without upscaling). Everything looks best at native res.

it is going to be a struggle to make laserdiscs look good on a 1080p display compared to DVDs and Bluray but I get that there are some movies that were never released on a digital format.

IMO, if watching laserdiscs is going to be a regular thing, I would either buy a CRT tv or a CRT projector. You often find good deals on the Sony G90 projector on eBay. It is the best CRT display ever made and great for everything from laserdiscs to 1080p blu-rays.

[Xer Xian]

While everything you said is true, CRTs do hide flaws for other reasons beside having a low screen pitch. Try to hook up to a CRT a video processor that's equipped with a smoothing feature, or a component signal that's been downscaled to 4:2:2, and compare it with the unadulterated source - you'll be hard pressed to notice the difference (even on high TVL monitors), while it's a lot more evident on a digital display.

Now whether that's due to the analog nature of the tech, the phosphor glow, or something else entirely, I don't claim I know.

the Sony G90 projector on eBay. It is the best CRT display ever made

Except that it's not a display..

[Ed Oscuro]

With SD you're trading aliasing and resolution loss against displaying at the native format. However, lots of natural content (most anything without regular patterns) won't highlight these drawbacks significantly. On the other hand, with a flat panel you're always going to see that blur when upscaling content, which I find distracting. I found it distracting when running sub-FHD content on a 1080p set, and I find it distracting when viewing HD channels on today's top-of-the-line 4K OLEDs (: However there are other qualities that make the trade worth it, and the sets can be configured too.

[Fudoh]

We need shader support for video playback of SD files. Doesn't x86 Retroarch offer this pretty nicely already ?

[Hoagtech]

I would reccomend the XRGB mini

You can enable video modes by changing v scale to 4 and h scale to 8 it also softens pixels which i prefer when watching old video.