Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

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Cliggster
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Cliggster »

r757chan wrote:Hmm, this makes me tempted to just convert RGB to component for the CRT and just forget the RGB mod unfortunately. Is there anywhere on the board you can get voltage from based on what input you set the TV to? If so this could probably be used to trigger a relay or something and still keep everything remote controlled.
Why not just have your source activate blanking? You can usually find a couple volts at the SCART output of most game consoles, which you could simply feed into your blanking line. This way your blanking is automatically activated when your console is powered on, and deactivated when the console is powered off.
r757chan
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by r757chan »

I'm using a Crosspoint so my plan was to use bnc cables.
numbski
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by numbski »

The IC I was thinking of was the MAX7461.

The output line is pulled low on no sync, high when there is sync. Hook it to your composite sync line, and the output to your blanking pin. The result is that if composite sync is present, RGB input is displayed. No composite sync, you get YPbPr. I suppose you could get dance and use two of them, detect sync on the Y line on YPbPr, and then use logic to determine which to display if both are present.

Image
http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/604b93a9454ea/MAX7461.pdf
r757chan
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by r757chan »

Thank you, this is promising. Just to make sure I understand what I'm reading since I'm only a little familiar with electrical diagrams and verbiage.

Pin1:
I'd add a wire with a 0.1 uF capacitor in series from my sync line to pin 1. The description says to AC-couple the input with the capacitor and that DC-coupling won't work, which I don't understand. The diagram also shows putting a 75 ohm resistor from the sync line to ground. From what I understand the RGB lines will already need to have 75 ohm resistors to ground, but I haven't seen them as necessary on the sync line. Should I wire one in as the diagram indicates? It might be worth pointing out at this point that sync from the Crosspoint will be TTL and my understanding is that I need to wire a 470 ohm resistor in series to get it down to the correct level. I was thinking I might add this 470 ohm resistor as switchable so I can switch between accepting the higher or lower level sync, in case I want to plug a console directly in to the TV.

Pins 2 and 3:
Wire them both to chassis ground. Presumably they can be bridged together?

Pin 4:
Wire this in before the blanking pin on the JC. Diodes seem like a good idea to prevent the 5v from flowing the wrong ways at this junction. I'm not wording what I'm thinking of very well, sorry. The diagram also shows a 1k resistor to the 5v source. Would this be necessary for this application?

Pin 5:
Wire the 5v source here. I should wire a 0.1uF capacitor between this and ground, I think?
numbski
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by numbski »

Looks to me like you are reading it correctly.

As to AC-coupled vs DC-coupled, you have hit the limits of my understanding, but given that we are working on the low-voltage side of the board, I assume we we are working with dc-coupled.
numbski
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Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by numbski »

https://www.noiseengineering.us/blog/20 ... -where-why

TL;DR - the diagram as-written is AC-coupled. In other words, the cap and resistor present on pin 1 AC-couple it. There is nothing further to do. Since the sync signal isn’t so different from an audio signal described in the article, we need to treat it the same way.
numbski
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by numbski »

Considering the effort it might take to make a simple PCB that takes the guesswork out of this. Have a handful of pads to solder to - OSD RGB, RGBS input, RGBS jungle then all one should need to do is pull RGB out-of-circuit at the OSD chip and the jungle and solder some wires to those pins, along with the sync input of their choosing. The result should be pretty clean. Not that what we have here is difficult by any means, but that would remove most of the effort and give you a one-stop way to handle it all.

The last time I did this though, I used eagle software on a Mac through a windows VM. Wasn’t a great experience. Need to see if I can come up with something better.
bobrobert
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by bobrobert »

I'm looking to see if anyone can help me RGB mod a JVC AV-27BM5. It uses the TA8725AN jungle IC but it outputs R-Y G-Y and B-Y instead of RGB, and the circuit layout seems to be alot different from other mods I've seen online. I plan to run this crt from a VGA graphics card (Ati radeon 5000 with 15kHz driver) but I am having trouble figuring this out. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Gonzalo
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Gonzalo »

Cinder wrote:Hello friends. I am very happy with the beautiful image provided by the sony trinitron crt. I have made several rgb mods and the image is beautiful. But I have a problem with a sony crt tv model kv-21fv12 / 5 with BA5 chassis. The problem is that vertical stripes or bars appear as ghostly on TV. The rgb mod was a success but I would like to know if these stripes are solved with a replacement of electrolytic capacitors. If so, will it be only those in the horizontal section? or recommend changing all of the crt.
https://postimg.cc/rzkB7JXc
https://ibb.co/JkXByMC
https://ibb.co/dBMNYv2
https://ibb.co/Xt1tK01
Have you found a solution for the ghosting/shades at the leftmost edge of the screen? Its mostly noticeable on plain clear colours..
I cant complain at all for the overall quality of the image, but i hope to make it better.

Photo doesnt show the artifact quite well, but it's there..
Image

Image

And here its a pic of the overall quality of the image from the Amiga500 on this set..
Spoiler
Image
r757chan
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by r757chan »

numbski wrote:https://www.noiseengineering.us/blog/20 ... -where-why

TL;DR - the diagram as-written is AC-coupled. In other words, the cap and resistor present on pin 1 AC-couple it. There is nothing further to do. Since the sync signal isn’t so different from an audio signal described in the article, we need to treat it the same way.
I finally got a few of these MAX7461 in the mail and I couldn't get them to work. My RGB is working just fine with blanking wired into a switch, but when I tried to use a MAX7461 it just left blanking on constantly. I'm assuming I wired something wrong but I couldn't figure out what. Also they were way smaller than I was expecting and very difficult to solder to.

Just as an experiment I removed the 1k resistor between Vcc and LOS and blanking was always off. If anyone has any thoughts on how I should have wired it I would greatly appreciate it.
Gonzalo
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Gonzalo »

Cinder wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
Cinder wrote:Finally I made the mod osd mix and I want to say that it is very easy to do. The mod I did with 1k resistors in synchronous lines and the image is amazing but in some mame games like galaga, the vertical synchronous roll down without stopping, this problem I also have with the other mods without osd mix with arcade pcbs like Mortal kombat and I thought that with mame games it would be solved but when starting the galaga game the problem persists. How can I solve this problem? Has anyone noticed this problem? Is there a way to add a potentiometer like arcade monitors to adjust the v-hold and fix it?
consumer CRT televisions are simply not designed to allow for vertical refresh to deviate substantially from 60Hz (or 50Hz in PAL territory)

there may be an adjustment for vertical hold in the sony service menu
Thank you very much for your answer friend. In the service adjustment menu, the parameter to adjust it is called VSS but in rgb mode it does not work, for that reason it is my question to put a v-hold potentiometer.

Have you found a solution for the rolling image? I'm using the rgb modded tv with a MiSter. Most cores work great, but ao486 (forcing a videomode) gives me a rolling picture. I was suggested on misterfpga forum to put a potentiometer in sync line. Have you tried that as a v-hold ?? ( I'm using 1k ohm in Sync to reduce voltages)
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Edgecrusher
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Edgecrusher »

Hi folks. I've been lurking and preparing to work on a KV32FV300 I intend on using in a large homemade 4 player(hopefully) upright cabinet to play horizontal scrolling and street fighter type games. I want this to be worth it in the end as it will be a big project. I just got done with a cocktail table using a 20" crt but no modding(s-videoinput).

This thread is just what I was looking for. I think I've wrapped my mind around the wiring at the circuit board the thing I'm trying to visualize is the connection from there to the PC. I plan to remove the tube from the plastic housing and mount it directly in the cabinet and I will be using a pc with a VGA connection. Not sure yet but I think I'll end up using Grooveymame and crt_emudriver on an old pc with a AMD hd5450 GPU. It will have a DVI connector which I will direct adapt to VGA. RCA jacks and scarts and such are not important to me so a lot of the connections I hear about I have to skim through. I just want to run directly from the tv wiring mod to the GPU connector(VGA).

If there's anyone who has done a setup like I intend to do and has some pics or suggestions they'd like to share I'd really appreciate it. If all goes well I'd like to do my own write-up of how I did it if it would help others.

thank you
Edge_
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Osirus
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Osirus »

Edgecrusher wrote:Hi folks. I've been lurking and preparing to work on a KV32FV300 I intend on using in a large homemade 4 player(hopefully) upright cabinet to play horizontal scrolling and street fighter type games. I want this to be worth it in the end as it will be a big project. I just got done with a cocktail table using a 20" crt but no modding(s-videoinput).

This thread is just what I was looking for. I think I've wrapped my mind around the wiring at the circuit board the thing I'm trying to visualize is the connection from there to the PC. I plan to remove the tube from the plastic housing and mount it directly in the cabinet and I will be using a pc with a VGA connection. Not sure yet but I think I'll end up using Grooveymame and crt_emudriver on an old pc with a AMD hd5450 GPU. It will have a DVI connector which I will direct adapt to VGA. RCA jacks and scarts and such are not important to me so a lot of the connections I hear about I have to skim through. I just want to run directly from the tv wiring mod to the GPU connector(VGA).

If there's anyone who has done a setup like I intend to do and has some pics or suggestions they'd like to share I'd really appreciate it. If all goes well I'd like to do my own write-up of how I did it if it would help others.

thank you
Edge_
Wiring the mod to a VGA (DE-15) is pretty simple. That's what all my mods use. You can either use composite sync and connect pin 13 to the sync injection of your mod or use H/V sync and build a sync combiner in the circuit before doing the injection.

Image
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Edgecrusher
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Edgecrusher »

Great. So I should be able to chop one end off a VGA cable and figure out which wire is which in the connector still left on the cable then connect those wires to their appropriate place in the mod.

For the sync you say I have several options. I saw earlier where H-sync and V-sync from the VGA cable both had 1kohm resistors inline and were mixed to one wire going to either the s-video luma terminal or a composite to the video in. I understand that so I'll give that a try.

Then I should just have a VGA cable coming out of my tube rig to connect to my GPU in the pc and a toggle switch to locate anywhere since it's just for diagnostics and will be used rarely.

I'm so excited to try this.

thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread!

EDGE_
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Osirus
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Osirus »

Edgecrusher wrote:Great. So I should be able to chop one end off a VGA cable and figure out which wire is which in the connector still left on the cable then connect those wires to their appropriate place in the mod.

For the sync you say I have several options. I saw earlier where H-sync and V-sync from the VGA cable both had 1kohm resistors inline and were mixed to one wire going to either the s-video luma terminal or a composite to the video in. I understand that so I'll give that a try.

Then I should just have a VGA cable coming out of my tube rig to connect to my GPU in the pc and a toggle switch to locate anywhere since it's just for diagnostics and will be used rarely.

I'm so excited to try this.

thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread!

EDGE_
It's surely possible to build a connector that way. I buy new connectors instead of trying to take apart a VGA cable. The wires in those things are very small and hard to work with.

For combining sync there are numerous methods people use. Many just use a single resistor, etc. but I've had good luck with this so I use it in all my mods:

https://www.retrorgb.com/building-a-pas ... biner.html
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Edgecrusher
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Edgecrusher »


It's surely possible to build a connector that way. I buy new connectors instead of trying to take apart a VGA cable. The wires in those things are very small and hard to work with.

For combining sync there are numerous methods people use. Many just use a single resistor, etc. but I've had good luck with this so I use it in all my mods:

https://www.retrorgb.com/building-a-pas ... biner.html
This is the exact circuit you make where V & H out of the VGA from the source and get connected to "C" which is plugged into a composite video jack on the set, correct? Or is there a Csync on the board?

Thanks, I have some transistors coming in the mail tomorrow
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Edgecrusher
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Edgecrusher »

on second thought, I think I have a wire coming off the board already. Using mgerety's pic...the yellow wire -that's my injection point.
***EDIT***: the yellow wire is for the blanking circuit. I was confused. Blanking comes of the board and goes to Comp Video.

Thanks for all the help. this is so much fun. I'm using this great write-up to get comfortable with the mod so I can later apply it to a set that doesn't have any write-ups. Just a junked set found in the scrap bin at my work, but it's a 20" which I think is the perfect size for anything. I have two 32" trinitrons. One's this sony and another is a HD Samsung which has a beautiful picture. I wish I didn't have the second 32 because now I feel like I need to make something with it and if I do it's gonna be another BIG cabinet! Not sure if I have room for another? Maybe I could mod it and sell it as a modded gaming CRT?
Image
Last edited by Edgecrusher on Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Edgecrusher
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Edgecrusher »

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Edgecrusher
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Edgecrusher »

Come to a dead end on my rgb mod. This is what I get.
Image
The picture isn't scrolling, but it is blurred and the "video1" is always in the corner.

I followed Mgerty's method except for sync I built a passive sync converter. https://www.retrorgb.com/building-a-pas ... biner.html

Running GM with crtemudriver Set to Generic 15K. I see RGB in there I just don't have any idea what makes it scrambled like this. I think I have sync correct. I have removed the tube and PCB's from the case and built a frame to hold the tube in an upright arcade cabinet that will be built once I can get this picture figured out.

What do you think??

Edit:
I only have one ground in my VGA going to pin 5. Should I jump it to include the other grounds listed in the VGA breakout? (6,7,8,10?)
Last edited by Edgecrusher on Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Edgecrusher
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Edgecrusher »

Here's some pics of my PCBs if anyone's interested
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MarkOZLAD
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by MarkOZLAD »

For sync, if you can get CSYNC outputted you can just use a single resistor (say 330 Ohm) to attenuate.
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Edgecrusher
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Edgecrusher »

VMmaker has a button for enabling composite sync. Is that what you're referring to?
I'm not clear on how this single resistor is used.

Thank you for your help.

I took someone's advice and tried that sync combiner circuit, but now I think i should have just "twisted resistors together" instead.
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Edgecrusher
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Edgecrusher »

MarkOZLAD wrote:I'm not quite sure why you are saying VGA but it doesn't matter how the RGB comes in, RCA/BNC/Scart/VGA as long as it is 0.7Vp-p (or thereabouts) and sync is somewhere in the range 0.3V-1.0V

VGA has 0.7Vp-p on RGB but the Sync is at 5V TTL. The RGB could go straight into a set modded this way but the levels of the sync would have to be dropped down. If your video card outputs csync you could just run the csync line to the composite AV input through a 1KR resistor. If it outputs H and V Sync seperately you would need to combine and drop the levels. A common way of doing this is to add 1KR resistors to each line and twist them together, other people buy fancy sync combiners. The 1KR work with the 75R built into the TV's AV lines to make a voltage divider. The maths is 5V * 75/(1000+75) = 0.35V

This is a quote from the begining of the thread and I think the same thing you are telling me about Csync. I'm not sure what it would look like, a card outputting Csync? And if it did how would I figure out where that is in the connector? I have a selection on the software to enable Composite Sync but honestly I don't understand what that selection changes down the line or if it's even meant to work with my setup. I'm doing my best to figure this all out, though. Every free moment :shock: lol.

Just thinking out loud here: I can see a good picture in the mess I just need to straighten it out. Perhaps I will go back and disconnect my transistor combinator and do the twisted resistors tonight just because it's the only thing left I understand so far and I can do it easily? Just for kicks I connected an old laptop with a VGA output to the set today and I could see the desktop but it was scrambled just like above. I don't know what that proves, but it was interesting since that laptop has no programming at all for a crt or analog output as far as I know.
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Syntax
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Syntax »

What a headache trying to learn how to RGB mod TV AND getting 15k csync output from a PC at the same time.

Maybe try one first then the other.
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Edgecrusher
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Edgecrusher »

Syntax wrote:What a headache trying to learn how to RGB mod TV AND getting 15k csync output from a PC at the same time.

Maybe try one first then the other.
Indeed.

I just spent an hour reading an article on proper sync combining, however, the article only focuses on the types that don't work very well and the author never gets to what does. How typical.

Anyway. I admit, I was goaded by extra soldering and making a fancy circuit board and avoided the method that has been shown to work so far. I still think I would like to understand better how these circuits are designed and work to produce a Csync signal, but I think I have more relevant questions.

But to address your statement; how does one expect to test a RGB mod if one has no source to begin with? chicken or the egg?
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Edgecrusher
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Edgecrusher »

I think there are obviously some very basic video principles which I am missing that have long been trivial to the likes of Syntax. But we all have to start somewhere don't we? :?
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by MarkOZLAD »

If you enable composite sync (csync) your PC will output both the Horizontal and Vertical sync combined on the VGA pin 13. You will no longer need to use pin 14.

The csync will be outputted at TTL levels so will need a resistor added to attenuate it. This resistor will interact with the 75 ohm termination resistor on the TV’s AV input to form a voltage divider.

As for the twist the H and V together via two resistor method, it may seem simple but I’ve seen it work many times.
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Edgecrusher
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Edgecrusher »

MarkOZLAD wrote:If you enable composite sync (csync) your PC will output both the Horizontal and Vertical sync combined on the VGA pin 13. You will no longer need to use pin 14.

The csync will be outputted at TTL levels so will need a resistor added to attenuate it. This resistor will interact with the 75 ohm termination resistor on the TV’s AV input to form a voltage divider.

As for the twist the H and V together via two resistor method, it may seem simple but I’ve seen it work many times.
Thank you, Mark for elaborating. That's exactly the info I've been seeking.

Sounds like I can try cutting out my previous sync circuit and run an improvised sync rca cord (like you describe) straight from my vga to the av port. If the software doesn't actually work ( and I haven't found any documentation about it working yet ) then I'm twistin'.

thanks
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Edgecrusher »

One more question

What do I do with the other grounds in the vga pinout. There's grounds for R,G, and B and a sync ground. Can these all get tied together? Should the syn ground be kept separate.

I noticed I had wired the ground I had going to the sync RCA (plugged into the video input) wired in with the ground coming from the vga (pin 5) and going straight to a ground on the tv PCB. Should this be kept separate?
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Syntax »

Typing VGA PINOUT into google produces this.

Image
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