Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

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MarkOZLAD
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Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Have had numerous requests for a procedure to be written for RGB modding the Sony Trinitron BA-5D CRT chassis utilising the OSD/External RGB Mix (nee Mux) method.

This thread is a work in progress and I will be adding more as I get diagrams made.

NOTE: I am Australian and do not have access to one of these sets, I am working in theory based on a service manual/schematics. Help from someone with access to a set would be very helpful.

Service manual is here

We'll start with the factory configuration of the On Screen Display RGB circuit. It's pretty standard really, RGB and Ys (Fast Blanking) going from the IC001 Micro controller to the IC301 Jungle chip

Image

Analysis Of Existing Circuits

I have been unable to find a datasheet for the Sony CXA2154AS Y/C "Jungle" chip so I will attempt to reverse engineer using the existing On Screen Display circuitry.

For blanking from O_YS we have a 1KR resistor, MA111-TX Diode and a 3K3R resistor to ground. The microcontroller will be sending out a 5V signal (this is standard), The MA111-TX has a forward voltage of 1.2V, and we have a 1000-3300 Voltage divider. To calculate the blanking voltage...

(5.0 - 1.2) * 3300/(1100 + 3300) = 2.91V. Let's assume 3V is the required voltage for correct blanking

NOTE: There is also a O_YM circuit on the main schematic used for half tone, it is similar to the O_YS except it has a 6K8 instead of 1K. The O_YM circuit would result in (5.0 - 1.2) * 3300/(6800 + 3300) = 1.2V. We don't know the threshold for going from half tone to full tone blanking so we will stick to the 3V we calculated from the O_YS circuit

On each of the RGB lines we will have 5V coming from the micro controller, going through 4K7 resistors with 680R to ground. The resulting voltages going to the jungle can be calculated...

5.0 * 680 / (680 + 4700) = 0.63V.

Scart RGB standard is 0.7Vp-p so given the OSD RGB is at 0.63V we will assume that it is fine to put standard 0.7Vp-p into this jungle.

As always, we will put the Sync signal (Scart pin 20) through the Composite AV port (Yellow AV port), so that's it covered.


The Jumpers.....

Jumpers make life easy, these ones will make great places to solder to, easier than surface mount resistor pads. The following jumpers are on the OSD RGB lines and would make a great solder point for the external RGB lines.

Image

Image

Jumpers can be seen in this photo

Image

Simple Blanking Circuit

In a later post I'll add in a section about RGB blanking this TV from Scart Pin 16 but for now I'll just go with a very simple and pretty much foolproof circuit to force the TV into RGB blanking.

We need to inject 3.0V into the YS2 pin (RGB fast blanking pin) of the Jungle. My normal method is to grab a 5V source (which can normally be found in many places on a TV chassis) and then use voltage division to send the correct voltage to the blanking pin. We already have R012, a 3K3R, to ground on the blanking circuit. We will use this as the "R2" of a voltage divider, we will need to calculate the "R1".

The formula is

5 * R2 / (R2 + 3300) = 3.0

You can do the maths and find out that R2 is 2200 Ohm. Alternatively you can go to http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/voltag ... calculator to work it out.

I did a quick search of the schematic for 5V sources, I found CN003. It's fourth pin has 5V running through it. Looks like a good one. (Notice there is ground next to it too...)

Image

We will run a wire from this 5V source, through a 2K2R resistor to the outside leg of a SPDT switch. We will then run a wire from the centre leg of the switch to the leg of diode D008 that is closest the R012.

Image


External RGB

Let's get to the fun part, getting our external RGB to come in whilst keeping our on screen display...

For reference here is the OSD Mix (Mux) diagram

Image

and here is the link to the OSD Mixing Calculator spreadsheet.

If you go to the sheet on the calculator spreadsheet named "External RGB Resistor Calc", we can calculate the resistance required on the external RGB lines in order to correctly terminate the OSD RGB.

The existing factory resistors are R019, R021 and R023. They are 4K7R so type in 4700 in the pink box. The value we are looking for is in the row "External RGB Resistor (no diodes)". The calculator will give you the exact value plus the nearest standard resistor size.

Image

The calculator tells us to use 750R, it is also likely 680R will be fine too.

Double checking with the first sheet (OSD RGB Mux Calculator)...

Image

Using the 750R should yield us an OSD voltage level of around 0.75V which will be well within the tolerence of the jungle's RGB inputs (should handle at least up to 1V). Should be a nice bright OSD over top of our external RGB.

Our external RGB circuit will need to have the standard 75R termination resistor and a 750R on each of the RGB lines, these will then be soldered to the jumpers on each of the RGB circuits.

The external RGB lines will become the new "R2" of the On Screen Display voltage divider, because of this we will need to remove the existing "R2"'s, which are R020, R022 and R024. These are surface mounted resistors, please take care not to rip traces when removing them, maybe consult YouTube to work out how to remove them. (It's not my job to teach you how to remove them - I'm not that great at it myself!)

Image

Image

Now we can connect our external RGB lines with 75R ground termination and inline resistors.

Image

Job done...

Image
Last edited by MarkOZLAD on Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:01 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Sony BA-5D TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by MarkOZLAD »

BA-5 Chassis

I haven't had the chance to do up the diagrams for the BA-5 Chassis but here's what I've got so far. The method is near identical to the BA-5D just with resistor names and the external RGB inline values changed.

Image

Factory circuit very similar.

Simple blanking circuit will be almost identical, 5V to 2K2R to switch to Diode D1012 leg closest to R1087.

Remove "R2" resistors R1085, R1084, R1086 (Please check with multimeter for connectivity before removing!!!! Don't blame me if I've got the wrong spots)

Image

Image

I believe there are jumpers on the RGB lines.

Image

Factory "R1" resistors on OSD RGB are 6K8R. This means the external RGB inline resistors will be 1100 Ohm (1K1R), 1000 Ohm would also be ok....

Image

Image
Last edited by MarkOZLAD on Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:47 am, edited 5 times in total.
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HellRazor
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Re: Sony BA-5D TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by HellRazor »

MarkOZLAD wrote:BA-5 Chassis

I haven't had the chance to do up the diagrams for the BA-5 Chassis but here's what I've got so far. The method is near identical to the BA-5D just with resistor names and the external RGB inline values changed.

Image

Factory circuit very similar.

Simple blanking circuit will be almost identical, 5V to 2K2R to switch to Diode D1012 leg closest to R1087.

Remove "R2" resistors R1085, R1084, R1086

I believe there are jumpers on the RGB lines.

Factory "R1" resistors on OSD RGB are 6K8R. This means the external RGB inline resistors will be 1100 Ohm (1K1R).
Thanks! will start to disassemble the KV-21FE12B soon, i have a silly request but how that diagram (https://klovimg.com/image/6h8vy) will looks like with just RCA jacks and VGA out instead Scart? i even have scart allowed hardware here
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by MarkOZLAD »

I'm not quite sure why you are saying VGA but it doesn't matter how the RGB comes in, RCA/BNC/Scart/VGA as long as it is 0.7Vp-p (or thereabouts) and sync is somewhere in the range 0.3V-1.0V

VGA has 0.7Vp-p on RGB but the Sync is at 5V TTL. The RGB could go straight into a set modded this way but the levels of the sync would have to be dropped down. If your video card outputs csync you could just run the csync line to the composite AV input through a 1KR resistor. If it outputs H and V Sync seperately you would need to combine and drop the levels. A common way of doing this is to add 1KR resistors to each line and twist them together, other people buy fancy sync combiners. The 1KR work with the 75R built into the TV's AV lines to make a voltage divider. The maths is 5V * 75/(1000+75) = 0.35V
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HellRazor
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by HellRazor »

MarkOZLAD wrote:I'm not quite sure why you are saying VGA but it doesn't matter how the RGB comes in, RCA/BNC/Scart/VGA as long as it is 0.7Vp-p (or thereabouts) and sync is somewhere in the range 0.3V-1.0V

VGA has 0.7Vp-p on RGB but the Sync is at 5V TTL. The RGB could go straight into a set modded this way but the levels of the sync would have to be dropped down. If your video card outputs csync you could just run the csync line to the composite AV input through a 1KR resistor. If it outputs H and V Sync seperately you would need to combine and drop the levels. A common way of doing this is to add 1KR resistors to each line and twist them together, other people buy fancy sync combiners. The 1KR work with the 75R built into the TV's AV lines to make a voltage divider. The maths is 5V * 75/(1000+75) = 0.35V
to be sincere i not get most part of the thing, but will try to figure out with more calm later
Last edited by HellRazor on Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by Ed Oscuro »

In hopes more interested people might find this guide, here's a list of sets using the BA-5D chassis:

kv-27fs100
kv-27fs200
kv-29fs100
kv-32fs100
kv-32fs200
kv-34fs100

BA-5 chassis:
kv-25fs12
kv-25fs12c
HellRazor
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by HellRazor »

i take some pictures of the MB board (terrible quality sorry, needed to use a nintendo 2DS to take it) https://klovimg.com/album/fIyH
so basically that the only board who need to be modded on that set right? no need to mess with the motherboard unless to get the audio signals and synk?
The Manual: https://www.electronica-pt.com/esquema/ ... a-5-22506/
will edit that post as im doing the mod, the first thing im doing is found 5V and GND sources, i found a free gnd hole on CN1000 (bottom left corner of that board) and 5V on IC1305 of the same board, however coming from an smd, can i be using this 5V source or it needs to come from A board (aka giant ancient board), thats a bit confuse, that board have plenty of 5V sources coming from everywhere theres one on CN1003 (and gnd) and theres lots on jungle and micro chips, but i not know if even i can use that points

also, can i use that kind of switch? as i see in your diagram you use just 2 tips of the Spdt 3 pole : https://klovimg.com/album/ftDt

When you say external RGB inline resistors will be 1100 Ohm (1K1R), you saying the ones who go to scart rgb pins on your diagram, right?
mgerety
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by mgerety »

Ed Oscuro wrote:In hopes more interested people might find this guide, here's a list of sets using the BA-5D chassis:

kv-27fs100
kv-27fs200
kv-29fs100
kv-32fs100
kv-32fs200
kv-34fs100

BA-5 chassis:
kv-25fs12
kv-25fs12c
The following are ALSO the BA-5D chassis:

KV-27FV300
KV-29FV300
KV-32FV300
KV-36FV300
MarkOZLAD
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by MarkOZLAD »

mgerety wrote:
Ed Oscuro wrote:In hopes more interested people might find this guide, here's a list of sets using the BA-5D chassis:

kv-27fs100
kv-27fs200
kv-29fs100
kv-32fs100
kv-32fs200
kv-34fs100

BA-5 chassis:
kv-25fs12
kv-25fs12c
The following are ALSO the BA-5D chassis:

KV-27FV300
KV-29FV300
KV-32FV300
KV-36FV300
More models with BA-5D

KV-27FV310
KV-29FV310
KV-32FV310
KV-36FV310
Last edited by MarkOZLAD on Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by MarkOZLAD »

HellRazor wrote:can i be using this 5V source or it needs to come from A board (aka giant ancient board), thats a bit confuse, that board have plenty of 5V sources coming from everywhere theres one on CN1003 (and gnd) and theres lots on jungle and micro chips, but i not know if even i can use that points
5V from the other board should be fine.
HellRazor wrote:also, can i use that kind of switch? as i see in your diagram you use just 2 tips of the Spdt 3 pole : https://klovimg.com/album/ftDt
Two point switch On/Off will work too.
HellRazor wrote:When you say external RGB inline resistors will be 1100 Ohm (1K1R), you saying the ones who go to scart rgb pins on your diagram, right?
On the BA-5 the 1100 Ohm inline resistors on the External RGB lines are the equivalent of the 750 Ohm inline resistors on the BA-5D external RGB lines.
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by HellRazor »

Found 820R and 82R resistors laying down here, but not 75R ones, can i be using that with same results? for 1100 ohms i found a 820R and 270R togueter
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by MarkOZLAD »

HellRazor wrote:Found 820R and 82R resistors laying down here, but not 75R ones, can i be using that with same results? for 1100 ohms i found a 820R and 270R togueter
If you use 820R and 82R in parallel it'll make a 74.5 ohm resistor. Will be fine.

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/tools/ ... alculator/
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HellRazor
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by HellRazor »

I did the switch, am i missing something? 2K2 ohm on a tip and another go to diode i will find right now, also will find and test the resistors/jumpers on board with multimeter
Switch images : https://klovimg.com/album/fgcM

Here on this image we can see 8-bit guy twist the two resistors onboard and then solder cables to them, is it needed at all? https://klovimg.com/image/HskrY

Man thank you so much for Edit the board trace with RGB colors showing the jumper and stuff, makes life a lot easier!
Last edited by HellRazor on Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by MarkOZLAD »

HellRazor wrote:I did the switch, am i missing something? 2K2 ohm on a tip and another go to diode i will find right now, also will find and test the resistors/jumpers on board with multimeter
Switch images : https://klovimg.com/album/fgcM

Here on this image we can see 8-bit guy twist the two resistors onboard and then solder cables to them, is it needed at all? https://klovimg.com/image/HskrY

Man thank you so much for Edit the board trace with RGB colors showing the jumper and stuff, makes life a lot easier!
The twist method was just something I came up with for a quick and dirty install method when through hole resistors are on the chassis. These chassis have surface mount resistors so not appropriate.
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by HellRazor »

oh ok, so for test if everything is right before removing R1085, R1084, R1086 , they should make connectivity with jungle chip RGB spots?
found the diode: https://klovimg.com/image/HsQv9 , that thing is tiny! will try to not take apart on soldering, maybe put a small jumper then insulate

EDIT: done, a little bit of hotglue should make it permanent https://klovimg.com/image/HsRpK
Last edited by HellRazor on Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by MarkOZLAD »

HellRazor wrote:oh ok, so for test if everything is right before removing R1085, R1084, R1086 , they should make connectivity with jungle chip RGB spots?
found the diode: https://klovimg.com/image/HsQv9 , that thing is tiny! will try to not take apart on soldering, maybe put a small jumper then insulate
The resistors to be removed should have connectivity to the jumpers. That would be a good test. Other than that you’ll have to use your best judgement. If they have markings it should be 681.
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by HellRazor »

MarkOZLAD wrote:
HellRazor wrote:oh ok, so for test if everything is right before removing R1085, R1084, R1086 , they should make connectivity with jungle chip RGB spots?
found the diode: https://klovimg.com/image/HsQv9 , that thing is tiny! will try to not take apart on soldering, maybe put a small jumper then insulate
The resistors to be removed should have connectivity to the jumpers. That would be a good test. Other than that you’ll have to use your best judgement. If they have markings it should be 681.
Ok, and after remove them its just solder the RGB lines to the jumpers (with the resistors) and get sync from AV1, and i done? can i use external 5V source just for a quick test?
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by MarkOZLAD »

HellRazor wrote:
MarkOZLAD wrote:
HellRazor wrote:oh ok, so for test if everything is right before removing R1085, R1084, R1086 , they should make connectivity with jungle chip RGB spots?
found the diode: https://klovimg.com/image/HsQv9 , that thing is tiny! will try to not take apart on soldering, maybe put a small jumper then insulate
The resistors to be removed should have connectivity to the jumpers. That would be a good test. Other than that you’ll have to use your best judgement. If they have markings it should be 681.
Ok, and after remove them its just solder the RGB lines to the jumpers (with the resistors) and get sync from AV1, and i done? can i use external 5V source just for a quick test?
Not sure why you want to use external 5V but yes.
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HellRazor
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by HellRazor »

Oh nevermind i back to BA-5D post and figure it out, almost finishing

EDIT: here the source i choose for 5V and two points for GND, its all good?

Image

On GND 2 i just put the composite Sync ground cable, and the external RGB grounds are next to 5V
HellRazor
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by HellRazor »

I did a test here today and my switch is clearly not well soldered, will exchange it but so far i have crappy composite and when i switch, as i not have any input in RGB it shows all black, then if i put my fingers on each of the external rgb points i can clearly see RGB, so i think its working! will do more tests now, thank you so much Mark for all you do!
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by MarkOZLAD »

The blanking wire could be soldered to the leg of R1087 that isn’t grounded if that is easier.
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by MarkOZLAD »

...or perhaps the leg of L1310 that is farthest from the jungle.
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by mgerety »

Hey MarkOZLAD:

In your post you identify jw42,jw43, and jw44 as the jumpers that go to the RGB lines from the diagram. However, your pencil drawings show 41, 42, and 43, not 42-44.

I’ve just removed the r020,r022, and r024 resistors, wired a perfboard with the RGB lines from my VGA connector to have 75ohm resistors to ground and 750R in-line, and am now about to solder to the jumpers, just want to be sure I have the right ones.

EDIT: Nevermind.. I looked again and it clearly says 42-44. Not sure what the hell I was seeing.
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by mgerety »

So, for the BA-5D, I could not for the life of me find the D008 to solder the 5V line with the 2K2R to. After examining the top and bottom of the board, there is a jumper wire, JW200 that is the through-hole wire in the hole marked for D008. I’m assuming I can use this for the blanking line?
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by mgerety »

Also, looks like only way to tap into the 5v on CN003 is to solder to the pin at the bottom of the board. Any chance there is a topside jumper wire (preferable) or topside leg of something we can solder to to get the 5V? If so, this mod becomes Much, Much cleaner and easier.
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by MarkOZLAD »

mgerety wrote:So, for the BA-5D, I could not for the life of me find the D008 to solder the 5V line with the 2K2R to. After examining the top and bottom of the board, there is a jumper wire, JW200 that is the through-hole wire in the hole marked for D008. I’m assuming I can use this for the blanking line?
That's a great piece of information to know. It's not unusual for the schematics to differ from the actual chassis implementation.

Will be fine to solder the 5V with the 2K2 onto it.

It would be good if you could analyse the circuit, check what the resistors actually are on that line, i.e. R011 and R012. It may be possible that we should use a different resistance. In the absence of diode D008 you could just use a resistor that has the same resistance as R011.
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by MarkOZLAD »

mgerety wrote:Also, looks like only way to tap into the 5v on CN003 is to solder to the pin at the bottom of the board. Any chance there is a topside jumper wire (preferable) or topside leg of something we can solder to to get the 5V? If so, this mod becomes Much, Much cleaner and easier.
If you check the schematics, the 5V rail goes all around the board. I just picked CN003 because it was the first thing I saw that looked accessible. If you can find a good place we can update the procedure. Always good to look for empty headers/jumpers on the 5V line. IC6008 is a 5V regulator, it's O pin outputs 5V.
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Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by mgerety »

I think I might have been mistaken about that diode. It looks like it might be a SMD diode on the bottom of the board.. I want to stay FAR away from that.

See imgur post below with topside and bottomside images. I was using L010 and D010 to determine location on the bottom of the board.

Top:
Image

Bottom:

Image
With the D008 written vertical on the bottom side, I though it was referencing the thru hole where the jumper is. However, there are 2 surface mount components there.. the first I think is D008. Which rules that jumper out.

Need a new blanking injection point and a 5V source.

The components marked LXXX are all topside with large exposed legs. Any of them work?

Sorry I am the furthest thing from an electrical engineer..
MarkOZLAD
Posts: 1004
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 12:39 pm

Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by MarkOZLAD »

The leg of L304 that is farthest from the jungle should be goer.

I think this is the place but you should confirm first.

Image
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MarkOZLAD
OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit
mgerety
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:24 pm

Re: Sony BA-5D/BA-5 Chassis TV RGB Mod with OSD Mix

Post by mgerety »

Mark,

What am I using that leg for? Blanking injection or 5v source?
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