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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:04 pm 



Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 551
I use component for 480p games.


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:48 am 



Joined: 14 Jan 2016
Posts: 85
Classicgamer wrote:
I'll be able to say for sure next week but I am almost positive that it will be identicle to my current tri-sync arcade monitor in quality and operation (except for it being 4" larger).

These arcade monitors do not scale anything. They don't have the capability. They just switch res between 15khz, 24khz and 31khz so 240p, 368p and 480p are all displayed natively (and perfectly).

I have been very happy with the image quality on my 24.8" flat crt. The image looks like I remember in the arcades. You don't get thick black gaps between scanlines like you see on a Sony PVM / BVM or an Ikegami. In that respect, it is closer to what you find on RGB capable consumer Trinitrons from the early to mid 90's - which is great as I don't like seeing jagged edges that weren't there in the arcade.


So there's no need for a sync strike or anything like that for composite sync?


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:39 am 


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I'm seriously considering ordering one if Classicgamer has good things to say about it once his arrives. I'd need a component video to RGB transcoder though. Anybody know of a reasonably priced one that's still somewhat available?


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:26 am 



Joined: 27 Sep 2018
Posts: 93
thetallguy24 wrote:
So there's no need for a sync strike or anything like that for composite sync?

Nope. It takes c-sync on the h-sync pin from either input. See the Wei-ya manual for more info.

http://www.weiya.com.tw/Download/201582410533374318.pdf
https://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/Wei-ya_M3192D
https://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/Rodotron_666

cr4zymanz0r wrote:
I'd need a component video to RGB transcoder though. Anybody know of a reasonably priced one that's still somewhat available?

StarTech CPNT2VGAA


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:27 am 


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Posts: 1573
cr4zymanz0r wrote:
I'm seriously considering ordering one if Classicgamer has good things to say about it once his arrives. I'd need a component video to RGB transcoder though. Anybody know of a reasonably priced one that's still somewhat available?


Audio Authority 9A62 might work. I don't think it had as much sync processing as the 9A65


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:38 pm 



Joined: 14 Jan 2016
Posts: 85
Classicgamer wrote:
Before you get a second mortgage on your homes to fund the purchase of one of the outrageously priced used CRT monitors from 1987 off eBay...

Happ still has plenty of 100% new 27" crt arcade monitors in stock. And... they are currently on sale! I just ordered one for $549 (half what they want on eBay) and.... shipping was only $87 (IL to NY).... anyone who ever tried to get a freight quote for a large crt off eBay will know how cheap $87 is.

These have the 29" flat tubes (27" viewable screen) and display CGA, EGA and VGA signals so they are good for anything up to the Wii.

Thought I would share, just in case anyone else here is looking for a new retro gaming monitor.


With 240p 15Khz sources, does it scale it to fit the 640x480 screen or does it simply line double them?


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:07 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 283
If it works like the one I already have (and I think it does), it has two rgb ports. One is a standard db15 (vga style) and the other is a molex for CGA arcade PCBs. Both ports can be used for cga, ega and vga. Both accept either RGB HV or RGBS but not sync on green.

For consoles like the PS2 which switch to sync on green (for no apparent reason) in 480p mode, I recommend spending $15 on an Extron RGB interface. They take care of any sync related problems.

These monitors also have a 75ohm termination switch which allows it to directly accept the brighter 5v rgb signal from arcade PCBs and the dimmer 1v rgb signals from consumer hardware without any additional boosters etc.

Crt monitors have no need to upscale 240p content to fit the 480 line screen because CRT monitors can switch resolutions. All three modes are displayed natively. The monitor has no scaling or processing capability at all. You can hear it make a clicking sound as it switches from CGA to VGA mode (or ega).

I should also note that 240p uses 480 lines anyway, so half can be left unused leaving gaps between scanlines which people here refer to as just scanlines.


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:11 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 283
BazookaBen wrote:
cr4zymanz0r wrote:
I'm seriously considering ordering one if Classicgamer has good things to say about it once his arrives. I'd need a component video to RGB transcoder though. Anybody know of a reasonably priced one that's still somewhat available?


Audio Authority 9A62 might work. I don't think it had as much sync processing as the 9A65


What do you need a transcoder for? Most consoles can output RGB natively (or with some small internal mods).

As far as I know, only the American Wii has problems with getting an RGB signal due to incompatability with the software.


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:35 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 283
It arrived already.

Image

That was fast. It only shipped out yesterday from IL and I am in NY.

I haven't opened it yet but it looks intact from the outside and I didn't hear that worrying broken glass sound. Hopefully I didn't just jinx it by saying that...


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:33 pm 


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Joined: 28 Feb 2015
Posts: 456
Location: Rome
Keep us updated!

Also, post lots of pictures, if you can.


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:32 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 283
donluca wrote:
Keep us updated!

Also, post lots of pictures, if you can.



I will. It is also worth checking out some of the reviews on YouTube but make sure to avoid the ones for the SVGA makvision which looks similar (aside from the image). I'll never ever understand why anyone would go to the trouble of buying a crt arcade monitor that can not display 240p....

As a general point, for anyone that is thinking about buying one of these monitors, I would advise you not to wait. I understand the desire for certainty before buying a product like this but who knows how long they will be on sale... or how long they remain in stock. They are clearly trying to unload the last of their stock.

IMO, this is the last time there will ever be a good deal on a new (and large) crt monitor from a reputable source. The idiots are already trying to sell these Makvision's for over $1000 on eBay. I don't see any signs of that changing any time soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:09 pm 


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Location: Bedfordshire, England.
Classicgamer wrote:
It arrived already.

Image

That was fast. It only shipped out yesterday from IL and I am in NY.

I haven't opened it yet but it looks intact from the outside and I didn't hear that worrying broken glass sound. Hopefully I didn't just jinx it by saying that...


Did Luke Skywalker deliver it?


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:12 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 283
lettuce wrote:
Classicgamer wrote:
It arrived already.

Image

That was fast. It only shipped out yesterday from IL and I am in NY.

I haven't opened it yet but it looks intact from the outside and I didn't hear that worrying broken glass sound. Hopefully I didn't just jinx it by saying that...


Did Luke Skywalker deliver it?



Yes he did. Nice chap. Hasn't aged well though. Bet he never though he would be delivering the mail after starring in the top grossing movie of all time...

That is my son's ride-on speeder that seemed like a better idea before I bought it. I had to move it out the garage to get the monitor into my basement.

Never buy a ride on toy if you don't want to spend your Saturday mornings following one round the garden....


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:34 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 283
Ok I had a chance to briefly turn the monitor on and check that it works n stuff. I still have more testing to do but my first impressions were mostly good.

The screen is nice and large but it doesn't seem to be any deeper than my 24.8", which is good. It is 10kg heavier though (bring a friend). The image looked very nice with a 240p source on my PS2. I'll take some pics once I hook it up to my PC as mame allows you to pause with full brightness.

It is not (as I first thought) a larger version of my other tri-sync. It uses a completely different chassis layout. Not all of the differences are good (although nothing terrible). My other monitor has a standard female DB15 port and a standard arcade molex which essentially allows you to hook up two different consoles. This one has a single male vga cable like you used to see on old pc monitors.

It comes with a vga breakout adapter to allow you to connect arcade PCBs but you only have one port. I'll have to order a gender changer to connect to my rgb interface, which is annoying.

More annoying is that it does not come with a power cable. You have to order it separately ($15 on eBay). It's not a huge deal (if you know ahead of time), it just makes me angry when things don't arrive ready to use. Luckily I could use the one from my other monitor until the new one arrives.

The screen has slightly more geometry issues at the edge of the screen which is expected with larger CRT displays. It is nothing that is noticeable once you have adjusted the image size for the game and it has far less issues than my NEC XM2950 - another flat crt of comparable size. I only mention it in the interest of being thorough. I know some of you lose sleep over test patterns...

The remote board (with all the image adjustment pots) is screwed into the frame instead of being loose like on my other monitor. I don't like this and I intend to unscrew it an position the board in a more convenient location. Mame needs adjustments for every game so I can't rely on pots that can only be reached with a screw driver.

It is also worth noting that the remote board on this one has a ground wire attaching it to the frame. I intend to cut this as my other monitor works fine without it.

Most importantly (to me), the image looks like it did in the arcades. This is not a fine pitch broadcast monitor. There are no unsightly jaggies etc. The image is sharp with good contrast without introducing artifacts. The guncon 2 light gun worked without issue.

There is a guy on YouTube who states "these monitors come maxed out on brightness". He is wrong. They just arrive with the 1kohm / .75kohm switch set for brighter arcade boards. Flick it to the other position before turning it on with consumer hardware and brightness and contrast will be about right when set to 50% of their max. Ignore the switch label. It's back to front on both of my tri-syncs.

pics to follow


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:33 pm 


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Good to hear the positive news, enjoy your new monitor:)
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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:39 pm 


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Thanks for the very detailed review. I'm kinda ok-ish since my Nanao MS-8 still seems to hold up strong (and I've recently recapped it completely), but it's great to see there are still alternatives.


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:38 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 283
I am going to delay conclusions until my vga gender changer arrives so I can use my Extron RGB interface. I am having sync problems in Windows for some reason.

I got a great pic from my PS2 and my Neo Geo MVS but not in mame. It did ok in mame with 240p content (but not as good as the PS2 or Neo) but 480p has issues.

Here is are some pics of it running in 240p on Groovymame. I'm not the best photographer but whatever:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Not sure if you can tell from the pics but the edges are blurry in mame (but not on the PS2 even when I play the same game).

There are plenty of adjustment pots to fix such issues but I suspect it is a sync issue so I don't want to mess around until I can run it through the interface.

I wouldn't let this stop you if you want to buy one. I don't want anyone to miss the deal because of my sync issue but I am going to hold back the official thumbs up until I know for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:43 am 



Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 96
Location: Sacramento, CA
I'm very tempted to buy one of these. Can you let us know if fast horizontal scrolling games (such as sonic) causes warped geometry like other flat tube crts? This is one reason why I am wear of flat CRTs. If you can a youtube video of sonic scrolling would be great.


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:49 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 283
I fixed my "sync issues". Turned out to be a classic case of user error. Once settings were set correctly, all the issues were gone (including most geometry issues at the edge).

So.... now that I had a chance to play a few games, I am sticking with my original "buy now" advice.

The screen is clear from edge to edge (which surprised me on a screen of this size) and this applies to all three modes. It's not perfect but no crt monitors is (aside from $15,000 broadcast monitors). The one I received has fewer issues than my XM29 did.

I'll share a few pics. First, 240p:

Image

I am never sure why people post close-ups of title screens but just in case there is a good reason:

Image

I guess it shows the "scanlines" for those that like that sort of thing.

Here's Super Turbo. Not my fav street fighter 2 version but it is considered a benchmark:

Image

And Turtles in time, a game that stole many of my quarters when I was a kid:

Image

Turtles is one of those games that looks bad when run on a crt with a pitch that is too fine. It looks great on this one. Just like I remember. Look at splinter (the rat in the corner). He looks clear and sharp even at the edge of the screen.

Here is a pic of it running in EGA mode with Paperboy - a game that really had no reason to run in EGA but... it did...

Image

And Ridge Racer running in it's native 480p:

Image

This is the reason why Tri-sync arcade monitors are the ultimate display for everything from the dawn of gaming up to the PS2 (and PS3 in some cases). The ability to play every single game in it's exact native res and refresh rate is what it is all about. It just makes it better.

Btw, Any moire pattern is from the camera and not the screen.

It's interesting, this 27" / 29" tube has the same .80mm pitch as my 24.8" but with the different screen size and tube manufacturer, the image looks quite different. The image is definately sharper on the 24.8" but, in many ways, I prefer the image on the larger one. The overall build quality on my Billabs 24.8" is better than on the Makvision but I think the larger screen size improves the experience enough to make it worth any of the compromises.

As the last option for buying a new crt arcade monitor at a reasonable price on planet earth, it's not a bad one.


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:11 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 283
Fusion916 wrote:
I'm very tempted to buy one of these. Can you let us know if fast horizontal scrolling games (such as sonic) causes warped geometry like other flat tube crts? This is one reason why I am wear of flat CRTs. If you can a youtube video of sonic scrolling would be great.


I am not familiar the problem you describe. I am happy to check for you though. Do you have a pic of the issue so I know what to look for?

If not, you can just tell me where to look.

I usually only notice geometry issues on static screens and / or when there are straight lines that aren't straight.

As a general point, I don't believe that geometry issues are from the crt being flat. My experience has been that they are worst on very old or very poor quality displays (regardless of shape). It's worse on larger displays too. Sony made many of the best CRTs in existence and they were nearly all flat.

I believe that many of the issues present in older CRTs were corrected in the latest models but, I am happy to check for you.

Let me know if there are specific games you want to see running on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:21 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 283
donluca wrote:
Thanks for the very detailed review. I'm kinda ok-ish since my Nanao MS-8 still seems to hold up strong (and I've recently recapped it completely), but it's great to see there are still alternatives.


I was also in two minds as I already have a bunch of great CRT monitors on my desk (including another flat crt tri-sync).

I just felt that, given how the market seems to be drying up and prices are going through the roof, I thought it prudent to buy another spare while I still can. The fact is that all electronics break eventually and I want to be able to play these game correctly for as long as possible.

I refuse to pay one of these idiots on eBay $2,000 for a 27 year old crt that could literally break at any moment.

I need my CRTs to last at least until somebody invents a new display tech that can switch res like a CRT.


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:11 am 


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So I've got a couple of questions.

1.) Does it auto-detect the sync? As in if I hooked a VGA switch to it where somethings are outputting HVsync and some are outputting Csync, will the monitor just auto-detect and act appropriately (or do I have to flip a switch or something on the chassis to tell it what kind of sync signal to use?
2.) When the power cord is plugged in does the monitor kick on (as in no power switch)?
3.) Does 480i work fine? (I've never seen 480i on an arcade monitor)

Basically my plan would be to build some sort of case for this and use it as a "TV" that I'd hook up RGBs consoles, Dreamcast VGA, and Sharp X68000. Any arcade PCBs would already be going through a supergun and my Extron Crosspoint switch beforehand. I assume i'd probably have to wire up a power switch, but I'm just trying to make sure there's no caveats where I'd need to open up the case after it's made to flip some switch on the chassis for regular use.


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:26 am 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 283
cr4zymanz0r wrote:
So I've got a couple of questions.

1.) Does it auto-detect the sync? As in if I hooked a VGA switch to it where somethings are outputting HVsync and some are outputting Csync, will the monitor just auto-detect and act appropriately (or do I have to flip a switch or something on the chassis to tell it what kind of sync signal to use?
2.) When the power cord is plugged in does the monitor kick on (as in no power switch)?
3.) Does 480i work fine? (I've never seen 480i on an arcade monitor)

Basically my plan would be to build some sort of case for this and use it as a "TV" that I'd hook up RGBs consoles, Dreamcast VGA, and Sharp X68000. Any arcade PCBs would already be going through a supergun and my Extron Crosspoint switch beforehand. I assume i'd probably have to wire up a power switch, but I'm just trying to make sure there's no caveats where I'd need to open up the case after it's made to flip some switch on the chassis for regular use.



There is no switch for sync type. It has seperate pins on the db15 connector for H,V and S. Mine is connected from an Extron interface with RGBS output on BNC connectors to DB15. I could unplug the interface and run RGB HV directly from my GPU to monitor without touching any controls.

It turns on when you plug it in. It has no power switch but you could easily add one. I use the switch on my surge protector.

480i works fine on sources designed to be run in 480i like the PS2. Windows never looks good in 480i on any monitor I have seen.

The thing to note with these crt monitors is that they are analog devices. They have no built in intelligence or processing like flatscreen displays. It's why they are great for gaming.

Compatability with old analog displays is a factor a bandwidth. If you feed it any signal around 15, 24, or 31khz horizontal and between 47 and 70hz vertical, it will display it. You don't have to worry about how it processes 240p or 480i because there is no processing, no scaling, no buffers, no NTSC decoders etc.

They are about a bare bones as you can get. All the adjustments are on analog pots. There is no OSD. Just RGB and S fed directly to the neck board.


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:17 am 



Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 96
Location: Sacramento, CA
Classicgamer wrote:
Fusion916 wrote:
I'm very tempted to buy one of these. Can you let us know if fast horizontal scrolling games (such as sonic) causes warped geometry like other flat tube crts? This is one reason why I am wear of flat CRTs. If you can a youtube video of sonic scrolling would be great.


I am not familiar the problem you describe. I am happy to check for you though. Do you have a pic of the issue so I know what to look for?

If not, you can just tell me where to look.

I usually only notice geometry issues on static screens and / or when there are straight lines that aren't straight.

As a general point, I don't believe that geometry issues are from the crt being flat. My experience has been that they are worst on very old or very poor quality displays (regardless of shape). It's worse on larger displays too. Sony made many of the best CRTs in existence and they were nearly all flat.

I believe that many of the issues present in older CRTs were corrected in the latest models but, I am happy to check for you.

Let me know if there are specific games you want to see running on it.


I'ts very obvious on any continuous scrolling game. As I stated before sonic is a great example of this. It looks horrible on a consumer level flat CRT.


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:27 am 



Joined: 27 Sep 2018
Posts: 93
Fusion916 wrote:
I'ts very obvious on any continuous scrolling game. As I stated before sonic is a great example of this. It looks horrible on a consumer level flat CRT.

What you're talking about here are linearity issues, basically, and maybe some optics issues in the glass. The traditional test patterns for this are the 5-circle Linearity test, though you should also be able to see it in the white/red overscan squares test as well. Firing up the 240p Test Suite in an emulator would be a good way to test.

Classicgamer wrote:
The remote board (with all the image adjustment pots) is screwed into the frame instead of being loose like on my other monitor. I don't like this and I intend to unscrew it an position the board in a more convenient location. Mame needs adjustments for every game so I can't rely on pots that can only be reached with a screw driver.

That's for shipping or use on a test bench. The controls are meant to be unscrewed and mounted to a chassis some where.


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:35 pm 


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Well I ordered one. The $100 shipping made it hurt my wallet even more :P
I'll test it a good bit when I get it in, but then it'll probably be sitting in a corner for a month or two while I order some additional cables (and probably a VGA matrix switcher), and get some help with building a case for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:15 pm 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 1201
I have one of the 25" makvision monitors in my arcade cabinet. I built it around 2006 and the monitor still works good. nice and clear.


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:57 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 283
[
That's for shipping or use on a test bench. The controls are meant to be unscrewed and mounted to a chassis some where.[/quote]



Are you sure on that? It kinda looks like they intended for it to stay there as they drilled holes in the frame for the pots and have installed a ground screw with a wire soldered to both the board and ground screw.

If you are right (and I hope you are), unscrewing it and cutting that ground wire should be no issue.

I guess I'll see. If removing the ground wire causes any issues then I'll add it back (with a slight extension).


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:07 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 283
cr4zymanz0r wrote:
Well I ordered one. The $100 shipping made it hurt my wallet even more :P
I'll test it a good bit when I get it in, but then it'll probably be sitting in a corner for a month or two while I order some additional cables (and probably a VGA matrix switcher), and get some help with building a case for it.


I forgot to mention.... after I ordered online, I got an email the next day saying that due to the size and weight it had to go freight so it cost me an extra $50. They asked me if I wanted to keep the order and I said yes (obviously) but they will give you an opportunity to change your mind if the extra cash makes a difference.

So if you selected the lowest cost shipping option like I did, expect an email on Monday. For me it was only $50 as it only travelled from IL to NY. If you live in Alaska it will probably cost a lot more.

Not sure why they give you an option to choose a shipping option that you can't use...

Don't forget to order the power cable and some vga gender changers too.


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 Post subject: Re: Happ has sale on new 27" tri-sync crt monitors
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:14 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 283
mvsfan wrote:
I have one of the 25" makvision monitors in my arcade cabinet. I built it around 2006 and the monitor still works good. nice and clear.


Does your 25" have a Toshiba tube like my Billabs one or does it have an LG like the later 27"?

I'm curious to know if it is the same monitor under a different brand name as the 27" is quite different.

Also, does it have a female vga port and a seperate rgb molex for cga or does it just have one male vga cable?


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