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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:28 am 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 542
Kinda off topic, but I've done some further fiddling with my Smartooo/Xolorspace switches and found that the issue I was having with the XB1X was not necessarily the switch or the Xbox. I had it plugged into the last switch before the receiver, thinking that fewer things between it and the receiver would lead to better results with 4K60 HDR and all that. But if I let it use rest mode instead of fully powering off, it wouldn't be detected when I turned it back on. What was actually happening was that the second switcher (first in the signal chain) was being read as the "always on" input and the XB1X was a conflicting "always on" device. I have moved it to the other switch and now it works fine. I wonder if this would also help with the OSSC, but, since that doesn't seem to play nice with my Denon anyway, probably won't get around to checking it out.


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:49 am 



Joined: 06 May 2017
Posts: 65
I just won an auction for a Key Digital KD-Pro4x1, once I get that in I’ll let everyone know how that works. Also I looked at the Extron 4K switches and I must have missed it earlier but they do have auto switching, they look promising as well. The SWx HD 4K series is 10GBps, so no 4K@60 but for those without the need for that it may work. The mobile website says:

Quote:
Automatically switches to the highest-numbered input with an active video signal


There is a SWx HD 4K Plus series now as well, I didn’t find any of those on EBay but they do all the 4K@60 HDR stuff you would expect with auto switching also, same description for it’s auto-switching. Those are probably $$$ but all it takes is some high profile client dumping a few on an auction to grab a deal.


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:01 am 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 1021
clintkolodziej wrote:
I looked at the Extron 4K switches and I must have missed it earlier but they do have auto switching, they look promising as well. The SWx HD 4K series is 10GBps, so no 4K@60 but for those without the need for that it may work. The mobile website says:

Quote:
Automatically switches to the highest-numbered input with an active video signal


There is a SWx HD 4K Plus series now as well, I didn’t find any of those on EBay but they do all the 4K@60 HDR stuff you would expect with auto switching also, same description for it’s auto-switching. Those are probably $$$ but all it takes is some high profile client dumping a few on an auction to grab a deal.


I tried the Extron 1080p/1200p HDMI switchers and didn't play nice with the OSSC. Unless they changed everything from the ground-up their 4k super pricy ones may not play nice either.


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:00 pm 



Joined: 06 May 2017
Posts: 65
Which model did you try? Looks like there is a SWx HDMI LC (https://www.extron.com/product/swhdmilc) and SWx HDMI (https://www.extron.com/product/swhdmi).

The SW HDMI user manual states this regarding auto switching:

Quote:
You can set up the SW HDMI to automatically select the active, connected input based on
detection of an active video signal (TMDS clock activity). If two or more inputs are active,
the highest-numbered input port with an active signal is selected (for example, input 4 on
an SW4 HDMI switcher). When auto-input switching is in effect, the green Auto Switch
LED on the front panel lights and the front panel input buttons are disabled.


The SW HDMI LC says this:

Quote:
You can set up the SW HDMI LC to automatically select the active, connected input based
on detection of an active video signal. If two or more inputs are active, the input with the
highest number is selected (for example, input 4 on an SW4 HDMI LC switcher). When
auto-input switching is in effect, the green Auto Switch LED on the front panel lights and
the front panel input selection buttons are disabled.


The SW HD 4K says this:

Quote:
The SW HD 4K can automatically select the active, connected input based on detection
of an active video signal (TMDS clock activity). If two or more inputs are active, the
highest-numbered input port with an active signal is selected (for example, input 4 on
an SW4 HD 4K switcher). When auto-input switching is in effect, the green Auto Switch LED
on the front panel lights and the front panel input buttons are disabled.


So basically the same thing on all three, that doesn't sound too promising, thanks for the feedback there. If I find a SW HD 4K for a deal on eBay I may pick one up to confirm, worst case I could use it as a down chain switcher for other non-OSSC devices. I'm curious what TMDS clock activity is, and curious if there is a difference between what the SteamLink is doing (when in sleep mode) and what the OSSC does in general. I wish there was some way to plug in a device to test what signals are being output to troubleshoot this better.


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:11 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 1021
clintkolodziej wrote:
Which model did you try?


I tried the Extron MultiMatrix SMX switcher. Two different ones, with 2x different HDMI cards (8x8 and 4x4). Seem to be extremely similar to the Extron DXP line as well (which I didn't try). Didn't work for OSSC or OSSC + DSC 301 HD.

If anybody wants to buy them from me let me know lol (I'm sure they're wonderful for non-OSSC HDMI switching + able to do VGA, RGBS, YPbPr, Audio, etc. switching too ;)


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:40 pm 



Joined: 06 May 2017
Posts: 65
Oh, so your issue was more on the side of OSSC didn't work at all on it, rather than just an issue with auto-switching? I'm assuming there is no auto-switching in a matrix setup, at least I haven't seen that before. I wonder why it wouldn't work at all, maybe with the odd video timings it doesn't pick it up as a valid video source or something?


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:10 pm 



Joined: 06 May 2017
Posts: 65
Haven't decided if I want to pick one of these up as well, but a seller on eBay just put up a large number of Extron SW4 HD 4K switchers for 99$ each. Based on Dochartaigh's feedback this *may* not work with OSSC unless they changed their processing on the newer switches, but it appears they have autoswitching and do 4K@30 so these may be better than some of the Amazon cheap-o's for many use cases.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Extron-SW4-HD-4K-HDMI-Switcher-Switch-60-1484-01-NIB-505-Retail-40-in-stock/372792306412?hash=item56cc272aec:g:148AAOSwwKpdlQ2O


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:33 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1567
Chipping in some experience gained when using an Xbox One S with the Vorke HD41Pro: DCHDMI on port 1, UltraHDMI on port 2, Xbox One S on port 3, OSSC on port 4. All of this equipment is powered by a rackmount PDU that I normally keep powered off. When I turn it on, the OSSC seems to be the first to turn on, which is fine. If I turn on any of the other three consoles, they grab priority.

Unfortunately, and I'm not sure yet exactly how this happens (might happen if I don't already have the input on my AVR set to Game; so, perhaps when the switcher doesn't have anything connected to output?), but the Xbox One S will get priority, even though it's powered off, and I specifically didn't enable the instant-on function so its HDMI output wouldn't be active. When this happens, I have to hit the input button on the Vorke to get it to switch back to the OSSC. (Alternatively, I can just shut off the PDU and turn it back on.)

At this point, I'm thinking of just connecting the Xbox One S directly to my AVR to avoid this problem, unless the Xbox 360 I'm going to swap it with does the same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:37 pm 



Joined: 06 May 2017
Posts: 65
I'll test that out as well, when you turn off the Xbox One do you just press the Xbox logo (suspend), or do you hold it for 5 seconds to fully power it off? I usually do the latter and don't recall seeing the same issue but once my Key Digital switch comes in I'm going to do further testing on my three switches (KD-Pro4x1, Monoprice Blackbird UltraHD, Sewell SwitchDeck 4K 5x1) and try to make a more detailed list of those edge cases or devices that cause issues.


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:43 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 335
nmalinoski wrote:
Chipping in some experience gained when using an Xbox One S with the Vorke HD41Pro: DCHDMI on port 1, UltraHDMI on port 2, Xbox One S on port 3, OSSC on port 4. All of this equipment is powered by a rackmount PDU that I normally keep powered off. When I turn it on, the OSSC seems to be the first to turn on, which is fine. If I turn on any of the other three consoles, they grab priority.

Unfortunately, and I'm not sure yet exactly how this happens (might happen if I don't already have the input on my AVR set to Game; so, perhaps when the switcher doesn't have anything connected to output?), but the Xbox One S will get priority, even though it's powered off, and I specifically didn't enable the instant-on function so its HDMI output wouldn't be active. When this happens, I have to hit the input button on the Vorke to get it to switch back to the OSSC. (Alternatively, I can just shut off the PDU and turn it back on.)

At this point, I'm thinking of just connecting the Xbox One S directly to my AVR to avoid this problem, unless the Xbox 360 I'm going to swap it with does the same thing.
What happens when you unplug the Xbox HDMI from the switcher and then startup? Does it still select that port? Or if you leave the cable plugged in but disconnect from the Xbox?

Sent from my LG-US998 using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:49 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1567
clintkolodziej wrote:
I'll test that out as well, when you turn off the Xbox One do you just press the Xbox logo (suspend), or do you hold it for 5 seconds to fully power it off? I usually do the latter and don't recall seeing the same issue but once my Key Digital switch comes in I'm going to do further testing on my three switches (KD-Pro4x1, Monoprice Blackbird UltraHD, Sewell SwitchDeck 4K 5x1) and try to make a more detailed list of those edge cases or devices that cause issues.

I long-press the Xbox logo button on the controller and select Turn Off Console. Keep in mind that the Xbox One S is currently connected to the same PDU I use for all my retro gear, so it acts like it has just been plugged in. It should stay off, but it seems like it takes longer to initialize than the OSSC, otherwise I would've identified this problem quite soon after setting it up.

ldeveraux wrote:
What happens when you unplug the Xbox HDMI from the switcher and then startup? Does it still select that port? Or if you leave the cable plugged in but disconnect from the Xbox?

First, I still need to do some experimentation to try to reliably replicate the behavior I was seeing; again, I'm not yet sure what causes it. I'll try a few things when I get home from work.

If I remove the Xbox One S, I would expect it would reliably select the OSSC, because the Dreamcast and N64 are fully powered off; they're not like modern computers that enter a very-low-power off state when they're plugged in.


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:12 pm 



Joined: 06 May 2017
Posts: 65
I think that makes sense, I have a new Voltage Regulator that I have yet to integrate into my setup, once I do I'll use that as a master on/off switch for my consoles and related equipment. I'll keep in mind when I test things that there could be different functionality for auto-switching in that scenario, vs an always plugged in scenario. If consoles have standby functionality they may have settings as you mentioned that could affect auto switching, if they are enabled, such as instant-on/suspend.


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:37 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 335
nmalinoski wrote:
If I remove the Xbox One S, I would expect it would reliably select the OSSC


That's why you have to test it out :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:17 pm 



Joined: 06 May 2017
Posts: 65
I received the Key Digital KD-Pro4x1 and got it hooked up, yes it's usually like 400$ retail so it's expensive, but full disclosure I won this one on eBay for 80$ so maybe it's possibility. The cheaper non-pro version also auto-switches and may have the same functionality as this one, but without the ability to enable/disable auto-switching permanently (you have to do it via the remote, and it turns off if you manually click the switch button on the device -- but might be ok if you don't have to do that).

TLDR; So far in one-console-on-at a time I haven't seen any issues, but I need to test a lot more. Multiple consoles on at a time I haven't figured out definitively the algorithm used for port priority, it seems to use some combination of Highest Port wins combined with newest port activated gets a shot at syncing before it falls back to priority. The highest port wins logic *may* be a round-robin type where it starts looking at ports higher than the currently selected one before wrapping around to port 1. Feedback needed if you can figure it out from these tests.

Here's my first wave of tests, so far it looks like it doesn't seem to be phased by the OSSC when it is in standby mode (without test pattern), so it must be looking for an actual video signal. If you power on one console (modern or through OSSC) at a time everything seems to be working as I would expect regardless of device order. If you have multiple devices powered on at once it seems like it does have a priority, but acts funny in some situations, which seems to be console specific but I may not dig too much more into that as my use case is to just have one console on at a time. I can say that it hasn't seemed to matter if I do a full console shutdown on XB1/XB360/PS3 or just press the button for suspend, at least in the one-console-on at a time situation, I need to check each console's settings to see if they are suspend/fast-power-on enabled or not for the multiple console on at the same time scenarios as that may impact that. Additionally, I'll probably test a bit more the scenario where the OSSC is left in the test pattern, but worst case just power on a retro console and shut it off to get that pesky test pattern to go away (as I did in my tests).

Considering that this seems to actually look for a signal and isn't fooled by the OSSC in standby mode, I'll also test if this is a good *upstream* device that could chain lesser cost switches off it in a star pattern, especially since this supports 4K@60.

Here's my tests, for now I didn't test the SteamLink, mainly because I seem to be the only one who has that, trying to hit the more common scenarios first. If anyone can better explain the port priority system I'm all ears. My best guess is if it sees something new light up it tries to switch to it, if it doesn't fire a video signal (or fire one fast enough) it goes back to the highest port that is powered on, but it seems like it may start scanning on the last active port -- and sometimes seems to act like it keeps a history of port activation to try to go back to the last active port? I don't know that is exactly right though, havent wrapped my mind around it yet based on the test results. I tested each a few times and it seems consistent so I must just be not following the algorithm yet.

Ports:
Out: TV (TCL 65S405)
1: OSSC
2: Xbox One
3: XBox 360
4: PS3

Multiple consoles powered on Scenario 1 (???):
Power on OSSC: switches to it (leave it on the test pattern)
Power on XB1: switches to it
Power on Xb360: switches back to OSSC? <-- 360 seems to trigger auto switching, but then not present a signal fast enough?
Power on PS3: stays on OSSC? <-- no clue here, didn't trigger switching
Power off OSSC: switches to XB1
Power off XB1: switches to Xb360
Power off XB360: switches to PS3
Power on XB360: stays on PS3? <-- 360 seems to trigger auto switching, but then not present a signal fast enough?
Power off Xb360: stays on PS3
Power on XB1: stays on PS3? <-- Stayed on higher port even though something powered on
Power on OSSC: switches to OSSC? <-- Went to the lowest port when it powered on

Multiple consoles powered on Scenario 2 (???):
Power on OSSC: switches to it
Power console on/off: no signal on Tv
Power on XB1: switches to it
Power on XB360: switches and selects XB1? <-- 360 seems to trigger auto switching, but then not present a signal fast enough?
Power on PS3: no switching? <-- no clue here, didn't trigger switching
Power off OSSC: no switching
Power off XB1: switches to Xb360
Power off Xb360: switches to PS3
Power off PS3: no signal

Multiple consoles powered on Scenario 3 (???):
Power on OSSC: switches to it
Power console on/off: no signal
Power on PS3: switches to it
Power on XB360: switches and selects PS3? <-- 360 seems to trigger auto switching, but then not present a signal fast enough, went to highest active port as expected though?
Power on XB1: no switching
Power off PS3: switches and selects XB1? <-- Not sure why it didn't select XB360, maybe it goes to last port turned on??
Power off XB360: no switching
Power off XB1: no signal
Power on console: switches to OSSC

One-On-At-A-Time Scenario(WORKS AS EXPECTED):
Power on OSSC: switches to it
Power console on/off: no signal
Power on PS3: switches to it
Power off PS3: no signal
Power on xb360: switches to it
Power off xb360: no signal
Power on XB1: switches to it
Power off XB1: no signal
Power on console: switches to OSSC

Now I'll reverse the ports and re-run the same tests

Ports:
Out: TV (TCL 65S405)
1: PS3
2: XBox 360
3: Xbox One
4: OSSC

Multiple consoles powered on Scenario 1 (???):
Power on OSSC: switches to it (leave it on the test pattern)
Power on XB1: No switching? <-- Maybe due to OSSC being highest port, not sure why it didn't try to switch to the newly active port though
Power on Xb360: switches to XB1? <-- 360 seems to trigger auto switching, but then not present a signal fast enough, grabbed the next highest port instead of the OSSC?
Power on PS3: No switching? <-- Maybe since the new port is < existing port?
Power off OSSC: No switching? <-- Maybe since the new port is < existing port?
Power off XB1: switches to PS3? <-- Best guess is it went to the last recently powered on port?
Power off XB360: No switching? <--not sure why this didn't trigger switching
Power on XB360: Switches to PS3 <-- 360 seems to trigger auto switching, but then not present a signal fast enough, went to the last recently powered on port?
Power off Xb360: No switching? <--not sure why this didn't trigger switching
Power on XB1: No switching? <--not sure why this didn't trigger switching
Power on OSSC: switches to OSSC

Multiple consoles powered on Scenario 2 (???):
Power on OSSC: switches to it
Power console on/off: no signal on Tv
Power on XB1: switches to it
Power on XB360: switches and selects XB1 <-- 360 seems to trigger auto switching, but then not present a signal fast enough, grabbed the next highest port instead of the OSSC?
Power on PS3: no switching <--not sure why this didn't trigger switching
Power off OSSC: no switching
Power off XB1: switches to PS3 <-- Best guess is it went to the last recently powered on port?
Power off Xb360: No switching
Power off PS3: no signal

Multiple consoles powered on Scenario 3 (???):
Power on OSSC: switches to it
Power console on/off: no signal
Power on PS3: switches to it
Power on XB360: switches and selects PS3 <-- 360 seems to trigger auto switching, but then not present a signal fast enough, wrapped around back to port 1 since no higher port was on
Power on XB1: no switching? <--not sure why this didn't trigger switching
Power off PS3: switches and selects XB360 <--next highest active port after the one that was active and turned off
Power off XB360: switch to XB1 <--next highest active port after the one that was active and turned off
Power off XB1: no signal
Power on console: switches to OSSC

One-On-At-A-Time Scenario (WORKS AS EXPECTED):
Power on OSSC: switches to it
Power console on/off: no signal
Power on PS3: switches to it
Power off PS3: no signal
Power on xb360: switches to it
Power off xb360: no signal
Power on XB1: switches to it
Power off XB1: no signal
Power on console: switches to OSSC


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:04 am 



Joined: 13 Jul 2014
Posts: 164
I bought the HDMI switch in the OP, but I am quickly finding that I have more devices than it can support. Can I daisy chain these switches? Or is there a better way?


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:03 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 335
Windfish wrote:
I bought the HDMI switch in the OP, but I am quickly finding that I have more devices than it can support. Can I daisy chain these switches? Or is there a better way?


It's been mentioned many many times that you can daisy chain these switchers.


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:14 pm 



Joined: 06 May 2017
Posts: 65
Figured out a bit more here, regarding the switch (KD-Pro4x1) and some of the console behavior.

First off, I was initially wrong: it does seem to matter if a console is in suspend vs completely off. I think that is what was impacting some of my testing why I was confused why switching didn't occur in some scenarios. If a new console is turned on, but was already in suspend mode it was already *hot* to the switch, so no auto-switching event is triggered. The only change was the presence of a video signal, which apparently doesn't trigger any event, though it is a prerequisite for the switch to select that input as active. Additionally, the switch will keep cycling through the hot inputs looking for a video signal when none have one, which explains why some times a scenario that wouldn't normally trigger autoswitching will work -- this is why the single device powered on scenario worked even though PS3, XB1, and OSSC all have suspend modes.

I still have to test other scenarios, such as using this as a master switch with others chained to it in a star pattern (or simple daisy chaining scenarios), as well as test other consoles/devices to see their switching behavior (if they suspend or fully power off). Hopefully this information will help understand switching behavior on other switches as well, as it relates to the consoles I have tested.

Xbox One (Has on/cold/suspend modes):
- When not the active input and powered on from a cold boot, triggers autoswitching
- When not the active input and powered on from suspend, doesn't trigger autoswitching
- When not the active input and powered off (to suspend or cold modes), doesn't trigger autoswitching
- When the active input and powered off into suspend mode, triggers autoswitching
- When the active input and powered off into cold mode, triggers autoswitching

Note: Powering off to cold mode is done by holding the power button for like 5 seconds when turning it off

Xbox 360 (Only seems to have on/cold modes):
- When not the active input and powered on from a cold boot, triggers autoswitching
- When not the active input and powered off (to cold mode), doesn't trigger autoswitching
- When the active input and powered off into cold mode, triggers autoswitching

Note: Xbox 360 starts up slowly so while it triggers autoswitching, it doesn't get selected unless it is the only device with a signal (causing the switch to continue searching and eventually return to the input when the signal is active)

PS3 (Only seems to have on/suspend modes -- not considering unplugged scenario here):
- When not the active input and powered on from suspend, doesn't trigger autoswitching
- When not the active input and powered off (to suspend mode), doesn't trigger autoswitching
- When the active input and powered off into suspend mode, triggers autoswitching

Note: Is there any way to force PS3 to power off fully, or does it only suspend??

OSSC (Has on/cold/suspend modes -- suspend is when no test pattern or console is displayed):
- When not the active input and the OSSC is powered on from a cold boot (no console on), triggers autoswitching (test pattern is displayed)
- When not the active input and the OSSC is powered on from a cold boot (console on), triggers autoswitching (console is displayed)
- When not the active input, but OSSC is already powered on, and a console is turned on (from test pattern or no sync), doesn't trigger autoswitching
- When not the active input and the console is powered off (OSSC goes into suspend mode), doesn't trigger autoswitching
- When not the active input and powered off (to suspend or cold modes), doesn't trigger autoswitching
- When the active input and the console is powered off into (OSSC goes into suspend mode), triggers autoswitching
- When the active input and the OSSC is powered off into cold mode, triggers autoswitching

From that I can derive the following behavior with this switch:

1. Turning off an input that isn't the currently active input doesn't trigger auto-switching
2. Turning on a device from a cold state triggers auto-switching
3. Turning on a device from a hot/suspend state doesn't trigger auto-switching
4. Turning off the currently active input triggers auto-switching
5. When an input is interrogated by auto-switching, it will only be selected if there is an active video signal. There is some sort of time limit for that signal to be present before it will check other inputs
6. The priority/fallback logic appears to cycle through all hot ports sequentially starting at the last port that was active (lower to higher) looking for a video signal, then wraps back to port 1 to continue the search if nothing was found on higher ports. If none are active it will continue cycling until an active signal is found, it doesn't appear to ever give up.

Here's a second look at the previous tests, all of the behavior is now explained.

Ports:
Out: TV (TCL 65S405)
1: OSSC
2: Xbox One
3: XBox 360
4: PS3

Multiple consoles powered on Scenario 1:
Power on OSSC: switches to it (leave it on the test pattern)
Power on XB1: switches to it (was fully powered off previously, not suspended)
Power on Xb360: switches back to OSSC <-- Appears to check PS3, then wrap back to OSSC and select it
Power on PS3: stays on OSSC <-- was in suspend mode, doesn't trigger switching
Power off OSSC: switches to XB1 <-- input powered off, checked next higher port and found a signal
Power off XB1: switches to Xb360 <-- input powered off, checked next higher port and found a signal
Power off XB360: switches to PS3 <-- input powered off, checked next higher port and found a signal
Power on XB360: stays on PS3 <-- tries to select XB360 but no video signal fast enough, checks next input and selected PS3
Power off Xb360: stays on PS3 <-- powering off non-selected device doesn't trigger switching
Power on XB1: stays on PS3? <-- Had been in suspend mode so turning it on didn't trigger switching
Power on OSSC: switches to OSSC? <-- Fully powered off, triggers switching

Multiple consoles powered on Scenario 2:
Power on OSSC: switches to it
Power console on/off: no signal on Tv
Power on XB1: switches to it (was fully powered off previously, not suspended)
Power on XB360: switches and selects XB1 <-- Appears to check PS3 (off), then wrap back to OSSC (on/no signal), then XB1 (signal) and select it
Power on PS3: no switching <-- was in suspend mode, doesn't trigger switching
Power off OSSC: no switching <-- powering off non-selected device doesn't trigger switching
Power off XB1: switches to Xb360 <-- input powered off, checked next higher port and found a signal
Power off Xb360: switches to PS3 <-- input powered off, checked next higher port and found a signal
Power off PS3: no signal <-- all devices off

Multiple consoles powered on Scenario 3:
Power on OSSC: switches to it
Power console on/off: no signal
Power on PS3: switches to it <-- was in suspend mode which doesn't trigger switching, but there wasn't an active input since there was no signal on OSSC so it was searching
Power on XB360: switches and selects PS3 <-- 360 seems to trigger auto switching, but then not present a signal fast enough, went to highest active port as expected
Power on XB1: no switching <-- console was in suspend mode so didn't trigger switching
Power off PS3: switches and selects XB1 <-- input powered off, wrapped around to OSSC (no signal), then XB1 (signal) and selects it
Power off XB360: no switching<-- powering off non-selected device doesn't trigger switching
Power off XB1: no signal <-- input powered off, tried XB360(off/no signal), PS3 (hot/no signal), wrap back to OSSC (no signal). Bounces back and forth between OSSC/PS3 trying to select them
Power on console: switches to OSSC <-- When video signal goes active it gets selected since the switch was trying to lock onto an input between OSSC and PS3 (hot devices)

One-On-At-A-Time Scenario:
Power on OSSC: switches to it
Power console on/off: no signal
Power on PS3: switches to it
Power off PS3: no signal
Power on xb360: switches to it
Power off xb360: no signal
Power on XB1: switches to it
Power off XB1: no signal
Power on console: switches to OSSC

Now I'll reverse the ports and re-run the same tests

Ports:
Out: TV (TCL 65S405)
1: PS3
2: XBox 360
3: Xbox One
4: OSSC

Multiple consoles powered on Scenario 1:
Power on OSSC: switches to it (leave it on the test pattern)
Power on XB1: No switching <-- console was in suspend, doesn't trigger switching
Power on Xb360: switches to XB1 <-- 360 seems to trigger auto switching, but then not present a signal fast enough, tried XB1 (hot/active) and selects it
Power on PS3: No switching <-- console was in suspend mode so didn't trigger switching
Power off OSSC: No switching <-- powering off non-selected device doesn't trigger switching
Power off XB1: switches to PS3 <-- input powered off, tries OSSC (hot/no signal), then PS3 (hot/signal) and selects it
Power off XB360: No switching <-- powering off non-selected device doesn't trigger switching
Power on XB360: Switches to PS3 <-- 360 seems to trigger auto switching, but then not present a signal fast enough, tried XB1 (hot/no signal), OSSC (off), PS3 (hot/signal) and selects it
Power off Xb360: No switching <-- powering off non-selected device doesn't trigger switching
Power on XB1: No switching <-- console was in suspend, doesn't trigger switching
Power on OSSC: switches to OSSC <-- input became hot and triggered switching, and had test pattern signal so it is selected

Multiple consoles powered on Scenario 2:
Power on OSSC: switches to it
Power console on/off: no signal on Tv
Power on XB1: switches to it <-- console was in suspend, which doesn't trigger switching, but since no other hot input had a signal (OSSC/PS3) it was searching and allowed this to be selected
Power on XB360: switches and selects XB1 <-- 360 seems to trigger auto switching, but then not present a signal fast enough, checked next higher port and found a signal
Power on PS3: no switching <-- console was in suspend mode so didn't trigger switching
Power off OSSC: no switching <-- powering off non-selected device doesn't trigger switching
Power off XB1: switches to PS3 <-- input powered off, tries OSSC (offl), then PS3 (hot/signal) and selects it
Power off Xb360: No switching <-- powering off non-selected device doesn't trigger switching
Power off PS3: no signal <-- input powered off, none of the hot devices (XB1/PS3 have video signal, both are suspended)

Multiple consoles powered on Scenario 3:
Power on OSSC: switches to it
Power console on/off: no signal
Power on PS3: switches to it <-- console was in suspend, which doesn't trigger switching, but since no other hot input had a signal (OSSC/PS3) it was searching and allowed this to be selected
Power on XB360: switches and selects PS3 <-- 360 seems to trigger auto switching, but then not present a signal fast enough, tried XB1 (hot/no signal), OSSC (hot/no signal), wrapped back to PS3
Power on XB1: no switching <-- console was in suspend mode so didn't trigger switching
Power off PS3: switches and selects XB360 <-- input powered off, checked next higher port and found a signal
Power off XB360: switch to XB1 <-- input powered off, checked next higher port and found a signal
Power off XB1: no signal <-- input powered off, none of the hot inputs (XB1/PS3/OSSC) have a signal so its searching them in sequence
Power on console: switches to OSSC <-- selected since the device was searching, when it interrogated the input after the console came on it is selected

One-On-At-A-Time Scenario:
Power on OSSC: switches to it
Power console on/off: no signal
Power on PS3: switches to it
Power off PS3: no signal
Power on xb360: switches to it
Power off xb360: no signal
Power on XB1: switches to it
Power off XB1: no signal
Power on console: switches to OSSC


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:51 pm 



Joined: 06 May 2017
Posts: 65
ldeveraux / Windfish. You can daisy chain, you just need to be aware of the following:

1. Most switches only look for ports that are hot for autoswitching and have some sort of priority or search algorithm for scenarios where there are multiple hot ports (ex: highest or lowest hot port). Since they only look for hot ports that could cause devices that suspend (XB1/OSSC/PS3/SteamLink) to potentially grab the active input when they don't have a video signal. You can creatively organize your switch chain to put those at the lower priorities so they are only selected when nothing else is on, though in a daisy chain scenario if you have multiple suspended/hot devices with no signal one of them would always win depending on that switches priorities. You can work around this in some cases, like doing a full power off of the XB1 -- not sure if there is a way to do that with the PS3 slim or not, the PS3 fat has a main power switch on back. Other devices like the OSSC or SteamLink (no power switch at all) you can't work around as easy. Generally you would put those at the end of the switching chain. I haven't yet tested my other HDMI consoles extensively to understand their behaviors (WiiU, GameCube w/Carby, Analogue NT, Analogue Super NT, SteamLink, PSTV), I'll do that when I get time. I think the more we know about console behaviors, it will help explain some of the HDMI voodoo that DirkSwizzler likes to call it, and let us pick switches that handle those edge cases in ways that will work for us.

2. The switches themselves seem to always report hot to their parent devices/switches, regardless of if they are emitting an actual video signal. Due to this you would want to put any daisy chained switch in the lowest priority port on the parent switch, if that switch only looks at *hot* devices and doesn't care about having an active video signal. If the parent switch looks for an active video signal also, it shouldn't matter if you only keep one console on at a time. If you have a need for an always-on device (with signal) in your setup, like a PC to record/stream, you would likely want to put that outside or upstream from your autoswitching chain to not impact that, perhaps have the autoswitching chain output to a parent switch that you manually control.

As mentioned by DirkSwizzler, the more *hops* in your daisy chain, the longer it takes to sync. I'm not sure if that is due to HDMI signal negotiation, or due to the switches themselves taking time while identifying the "active" input, but in any case more *hops* is bad. I believe it was tested and once the signal is negotiated these extra *hops* don't create input lag, however.

This sort of thing is why I'm trying to find an affordable 4K@60 switch that looks for an active video signal in addition to *hot* ports, most of the cheap ones do not do this, the Key Digital KD-Pro4x1 does, though it is expensive -- but I was able to pick one up relatively cheap (80$) on eBay, but YMMV. They have a non-pro model that may have the same functionality, but the autoswitching is only enabled via a remote, so if you have a power failure in your house, or have a scenario with a master power switch that turns off all of your devices you would need to use the remote to re-enable auto-switching once power is restored. Additionally on that switch if you manually select an input for any reason using the button on the front, it disables auto-switching. Not ideal but if you always keep everything powered on and ready to go it might be a good candidate. Also, I believe DirkSwizzler identified the HD Fury Vertex 2 as a switch that looked for video signals, though that one is 400$ as well, and less likely to be on eBay since it just was released.

By finding a switch that looks at active video signals it will *hopefully* enable wiring multiple switches to a parent switch, instead of daisy chaining them, which would reduce sync/search time (aka *hops*). In a perfect world SuperG would put out a 16 port HDMI switch similar to the gscart/gcomp switches, but so far we arent there, and there are no switches that we found so far that have a large number of ports that support 4K@60 so we're stuck looking for solutions to connect multiple smaller switches together.

Hope that helps get you up to speed on the theory here, at least for switches, this thread also has a ton of stuff with splitters, auto extraction, etc that I'm not qualified at this point to comment on.


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:04 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 335
clintkolodziej wrote:
ldeveraux / Windfish. You can daisy chain, you just need to be aware of the following:

1. Most switches only look for ports that are hot for autoswitching and have some sort of priority or search algorithm for scenarios where there are multiple hot ports (ex: highest or lowest hot port). Since they only look for hot ports that could cause devices that suspend (XB1/OSSC/PS3/SteamLink) to potentially grab the active input when they don't have a video signal. You can creatively organize your switch chain to put those at the lower priorities so they are only selected when nothing else is on, though in a daisy chain scenario if you have multiple suspended/hot devices with no signal one of them would always win depending on that switches priorities. You can work around this in some cases, like doing a full power off of the XB1 -- not sure if there is a way to do that with the PS3 slim or not, the PS3 fat has a main power switch on back. Other devices like the OSSC or SteamLink (no power switch at all) you can't work around as easy. Generally you would put those at the end of the switching chain. I haven't yet tested my other HDMI consoles extensively to understand their behaviors (WiiU, GameCube w/Carby, Analogue NT, Analogue Super NT, SteamLink, PSTV), I'll do that when I get time. I think the more we know about console behaviors, it will help explain some of the HDMI voodoo that DirkSwizzler likes to call it, and let us pick switches that handle those edge cases in ways that will work for us.

2. The switches themselves seem to always report hot to their parent devices/switches, regardless of if they are emitting an actual video signal. Due to this you would want to put any daisy chained switch in the lowest priority port on the parent switch, if that switch only looks at *hot* devices and doesn't care about having an active video signal. If the parent switch looks for an active video signal also, it shouldn't matter if you only keep one console on at a time. If you have a need for an always-on device (with signal) in your setup, like a PC to record/stream, you would likely want to put that outside or upstream from your autoswitching chain to not impact that, perhaps have the autoswitching chain output to a parent switch that you manually control.

As mentioned by DirkSwizzler, the more *hops* in your daisy chain, the longer it takes to sync. I'm not sure if that is due to HDMI signal negotiation, or due to the switches themselves taking time while identifying the "active" input, but in any case more *hops* is bad. I believe it was tested and once the signal is negotiated these extra *hops* don't create input lag, however.

This sort of thing is why I'm trying to find an affordable 4K@60 switch that looks for an active video signal in addition to *hot* ports, most of the cheap ones do not do this, the Key Digital KD-Pro4x1 does, though it is expensive -- but I was able to pick one up relatively cheap (80$) on eBay, but YMMV. They have a non-pro model that may have the same functionality, but the autoswitching is only enabled via a remote, so if you have a power failure in your house, or have a scenario with a master power switch that turns off all of your devices you would need to use the remote to re-enable auto-switching once power is restored. Additionally on that switch if you manually select an input for any reason using the button on the front, it disables auto-switching. Not ideal but if you always keep everything powered on and ready to go it might be a good candidate. Also, I believe DirkSwizzler identified the HD Fury Vertex 2 as a switch that looked for video signals, though that one is 400$ as well, and less likely to be on eBay since it just was released.

By finding a switch that looks at active video signals it will *hopefully* enable wiring multiple switches to a parent switch, instead of daisy chaining them, which would reduce sync/search time (aka *hops*). In a perfect world SuperG would put out a 16 port HDMI switch similar to the gscart/gcomp switches, but so far we arent there, and there are no switches that we found so far that have a large number of ports that support 4K@60 so we're stuck looking for solutions to connect multiple smaller switches together.

Hope that helps get you up to speed on the theory here, at least for switches, this thread also has a ton of stuff with splitters, auto extraction, etc that I'm not qualified at this point to comment on.


Dude, the novels you write... He asked a simple, one line question, so he got a one line answer. He'll follow up with further questions. No need to hold anyone's hand through it, I just gave the short answer.


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:21 pm 



Joined: 06 May 2017
Posts: 65
Just trying to help save someone from having to read through an entire thread to figure this out. Feel free to ignore my posts if you don't like to read novels, I try to include all details and research on how I reach a conclusion so others can verify I didn't make a mistake. I'd prefer to do that instead of just saying "Buy this because I say so".


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:30 pm 



Joined: 13 Jul 2014
Posts: 164
clink, thanks for the write up. I hadn't even considered the possibility of "auto-switch behavior" while daisy-chaining switches. How can I tell whether a port is high or low priority?

Also, and this may be a naive question, isn't there a simpler, cheaper device that can help? As in, such as an outlet extender that plugs into the wall and provides two outlets instead of one. Doesn't something like that exist for HDMI?


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:49 am 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 335
Windfish wrote:
clink, thanks for the write up. I hadn't even considered the possibility of "auto-switch behavior" while daisy-chaining switches. How can I tell whether a port is high or low priority?

Also, and this may be a naive question, isn't there a simpler, cheaper device that can help? As in, such as an outlet extender that plugs into the wall and provides two outlets instead of one. Doesn't something like that exist for HDMI?


RE: Priorities - The port priorities are in their numerical order for auto-switching. if ports 1 and 4 are active, the switch will prioritize #1. That's why we put our always on OSSC on 4.

RE: Another HDMI Device - No, I mean that wasn't the point of this thread. @dirkswizzler found a combination of equipment that worked with his setup and provided near complete auto-switching capabilities. Those listed in the OP are what he found worked, but that isn't a completely exhaustive search. He didn't find any 8-port devices for example, though that's not to say they don't exist. I didn't read what the novelist wrote, but it seems he found a possibility with another switch with more ports? Maybe? I don't come to Shmups to read books, IDK...


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:18 pm 



Joined: 06 May 2017
Posts: 65
TLDR; The one I found was only a 4 port but it looked at video signals in addition to just hot ports so it solves the situation where you have multiple devices like the OSSC that report hot to the switch and break auto-switching functionality.

Sorry about the novels, really not trying to make this thread hard to read, I'll hide test results behind spoiler tags next time to make it more digestible.


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:02 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 335
clintkolodziej wrote:
TLDR; The one I found was only a 4 port but it looked at video signals in addition to just hot ports so it solves the situation where you have multiple devices like the OSSC that report hot to the switch and break auto-switching functionality.

Sorry about the novels, really not trying to make this thread hard to read, I'll hide test results behind spoiler tags next time to make it more digestible.


No worries, I'm just playing! I can certainly appreciate a switcher that will allow multiple always on devices. I'd just assumed there was no way to differentiate, so it's great that you found one. Price aside, would the KD switch work with daisy chaining because it looks for video signal?

edit: Just found this, is the remote required? I'll buy it if not!
www.ebay.com/itm/Key-Digital-KD-Pro4x1- ... 3696418773


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:08 pm 



Joined: 06 May 2017
Posts: 65
I think the daisy chaining would still work there. I'm looking to get something like 16 ports, so my thought is to have the KD as the *root* and chain 4 cheaper switches off it, so I could put up to 4 troublesome devices on port 4 of each of those. The other option would be to just put the KD at the end of your daisy chain and put 4 troublesome devices on it, since it will check for the video signal too. Probably just depends how many switches you have which is easier.


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:13 pm 



Joined: 06 May 2017
Posts: 65
ldeveraux wrote:
clintkolodziej wrote:
TLDR; The one I found was only a 4 port but it looked at video signals in addition to just hot ports so it solves the situation where you have multiple devices like the OSSC that report hot to the switch and break auto-switching functionality.

Sorry about the novels, really not trying to make this thread hard to read, I'll hide test results behind spoiler tags next time to make it more digestible.


No worries, I'm just playing! I can certainly appreciate a switcher that will allow multiple always on devices. I'd just assumed there was no way to differentiate, so it's great that you found one. Price aside, would the KD switch work with daisy chaining because it looks for video signal?

edit: Just found this, is the remote required? I'll buy it if not!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Key-Digital-KD- ... 3696418773


Personally, with all the testing I did I never used the remote. I saw that one when I bought mine a week ago but thought I may need the remote. Since auto-switching seems to work completely as I was hoping I wouldn't see the need for it. There is also an Ethernet jack on the back, from the user manual it looks like there is a Key Digital App, I assume the app would let you control it if your phone and switch are both on the same network -- haven't tried that so far.


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:14 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 335
clintkolodziej wrote:
I think the daisy chaining would still work there. I'm looking to get something like 16 ports, so my thought is to have the KD as the *root* and chain 4 cheaper switches off it, so I could put up to 4 troublesome devices on port 4 of each of those. The other option would be to just put the KD at the end of your daisy chain and put 4 troublesome devices on it, since it will check for the video signal too. Probably just depends how many switches you have which is easier.


The anal retentive in me doesn't like that solution, but the realist kinda does. I understand the need for 16 devices, but after thinking, would there be more than 4 that are always on? Roku, Chromecast, FireTV, maybe others. Also how would the the system select the correct always on device? Say I've got 4 Vorke auto-switchers plugged in to the KD-Pro4x1. At port 4 of each Vorke I have one of those devices. How would it select from those, since the screens are always on?

Also, try that app later!


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:14 pm 



Joined: 06 May 2017
Posts: 65
If they are powered on but not sending a signal it should work fine with the KD from what I'm seeing. If they do something like just show a black screen or screensaver then that would likely cause issues with autoswitching. It probably depends on the device, but if there is a power button on a remote or on the device itself, I would hope it cuts the video signal which should allow it to work. Chromecast I don't think has a power button so that depends if it cuts the signal when it isn't active on a switch or TV.

If it were me I'd just plug the media devices into a different HDMI input on the TV and manually switch those, leave all the gaming stuff on the KD/Vorke side of things. If we find when powering off the Roku or other streaming box kills the video signal then the KD could handle it I believe (or port 4 on Vorke uplinked to the KD).

So far here are the verified problems that I have found, I'll likely do more testing on any console or device that I have that stays on with some sort of status light (Wii U, streaming boxes, etc) as well. I dont have a PS4/Switch currently to test those.

Devices that give my cheaper switches problems:
OSSC (hot/no signal when no console is powered on, assuming you would leave it on during an autoswitching setup)
PS3 slim (hot/no signal when in suspend, can't find a way to completely power it off)
Xbox One (hot/no signal when in suspend, workaround is to do a forced power down with long press on power button)
SteamLink (hot/no signal when in suspend, no power button, only wakes via controller)


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:38 pm 



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 352
Just a heads up but many modern tvs (Including the super affordable tcl models that have a great but not very bright picture and under a frame of lag) have hdmi arc ports on them and you can run your hdmi directly from your hdmi switch to the tv and then use the arc port to pass just the audio on to your receiver. Then just make sure your tv is set to use arc for audio.
https://youtu.be/bMB8979lPNA

This way you only need to worry about your tv, your hdmi switch, and your 2 hdmi cables when you check to see if things are working. Considering the witchcraft that hdmi standardization is I strongly suggest eliminating as many devices as possible from your chain because even if it is only a hdmi splitter to copy the input into a second hdmi line out it could still not process certain signals or some voodoo.

Also the largest 4k@60hz hdmi switch I've found so far is this 8 port one, and it has an option to disable autoswitching which I absolutely insist upon in all my equipment because of the nightmare of resolution changes in some games causing multiple second long blackouts when autoswitch mode loses the signal for a split second and then tries to find it again (even more so when the ossc has to process the change and god help you if you have an xrgb mini or something worse)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HLR9QGV

And at the end of October 2019 I've been told this 16 port 4k@60hz hdmi switch will be coming out:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YJMXM8J


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 Post subject: Re: I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:04 am 


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I thought ARC was limited in audio formats. Like only 2 channel stereo or something like that.
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