I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps

[DirkSwizzler]

For example, OSSC is "always on" and thus doesn't play nice.

Yeah. For me that defeats a fully auto-switched setup.

[ldeveraux]

The only times I've had issues with auto switching using the Smartooo seem to have more to do with the devices connected to them. For example, OSSC is "always on" and thus doesn't play nice. Xbox One when using it's "instant on" mode suffers the same date. In these cases, I just turn off the OSSC when not in use and tell the XB1 to use energy saver power mode so it turns all the way off. No issues with Switch, PS4, 360, Wii U, PC, or whatever else I have hooked up.

Right, so the one thing I'm trying to avoid happening, you couldn't avoid it happening. Thanks for the recommendation

[thebigcheese]

It's not really the switcher's fault, that's just how the OSSC works. And since auto input detection on the OSSC times out anyway, it ends up working better (for me, at least) to only turn it on when I want to use it so that it can switch to RGB or YPbPr or whatever automatically. If that doesn't work in your particular use case, then good luck. You're basically trying to find a product that doesn't follow the "standards" to accommodate a niche product that also doesn't follow standards. Seems easier to just turn the thing off when not in use...

[Jdurg]

The only way I found to stop that annoyance with the OSSC was to make it so that it only turned on when the one console I have connected to it turned on; the SNES. Thankfully, the SNES puts out +5V from it's multi-out and I use that +5V to trigger a switch to turn on and supply power to the OSSC. Turn off the SNES, the OSSC shuts off. The issue with the OSSC sending out a signal even when it's not truly "on" is no longer a worry.

Was really happy when it all worked out as planned. Had some fun designing the circuit, etching the copper PCB, and putting the parts together.

[DirkSwizzler]

You're basically trying to find a product that doesn't follow the "standards" to accommodate a niche product that also doesn't follow standards. Seems easier to just turn the thing off when not in use...

Port priority is not that weird of a feature. Why would that lead you to claim it's not following the standards?

I can see your line of thinking if your OSSC itself requires fiddling to work each session. That doesn't apply to mine where it can be on for hours ready to go as soon as I turn on any console.

[thebigcheese]

I was referring to the idea that an input is switched to when it is detected as on, though I hadn't particularly considered port priority. Mostly I was irked because people are rolling their eyes at my suggestion which was only intended to offer an alternative to the original recommendationsince the original recommendation is apparently no longer available. Did not claim to solve the OSSC issue. My point is simply that the OSSC is the issue and maybe you can find a workaround, but you could also just... turn it off.

[ldeveraux]

I was referring to the idea that an input is switched to when it is detected as on, though I hadn't particularly considered port priority. Mostly I was irked because people are rolling their eyes at my suggestion which was only intended to offer an alternative to the original recommendationsince the original recommendation is apparently no longer available. Did not claim to solve the OSSC issue. My point is simply that the OSSC is the issue and maybe you can find a workaround, but you could also just... turn it off.

The most recent issue we discussed was the autoswitching issue, and I thought you replied to it suggesting the Smartooo. Though you didn't quote anybody, so you might have been replying to something else. Regardless, this won't solve the switching problem, but may be a replacement for the Vorke/Prosumer, albeit not in the spirit of this thread. So I'll try it out and hope it fixes switching, though not holding my breath.

[ldeveraux]

OK so I finally have a system setup I'm happy with. Mostly happy with Instead of running my SCART selectors directly into the OSSC, I run into the Shinybow. Then I have component out into a gcompsw, along with other non-SCART component outputting devices (XBOX, Wii, C64, etc). That way, the always on OSSC doesn't cause the HDMI port 4 to always be selected. The gcompsw leads to the V2 input of the OSSC, then HDMI to the Vorke. Then I can plug other HDMI systems (just the WiiU so far) into the Vorke and play those on demand and the OSSC doesn't take preference. I'm not sure the effect of going SCART to Component to HDMI, but it looks good enough for me!

[nmalinoski]

OK so I finally have a system setup I'm happy with. Mostly happy with Instead of running my SCART selectors directly into the OSSC, I run into the Shinybow. Then I have component out into a gcompsw, along with other non-SCART component outputting devices (XBOX, Wii, C64, etc). That way, the always on OSSC doesn't cause the HDMI port 4 to always be selected. The gcompsw leads to the V2 input of the OSSC, then HDMI to the Vorke. Then I can plug other HDMI systems (just the WiiU so far) into the Vorke and play those on demand and the OSSC doesn't take preference. I'm not sure the effect of going SCART to Component to HDMI, but it looks good enough for me!

I'm not sure I understand the part where you say consolidating formats to YPbPr is what enables the OSSC to not cause port 4 to always be selected. The Vorke HD41pro switches on newest-connected (and seems to fall back to the next sequentially-numbered input); so, it wouldn't matter how you wire your OSSC or the Vorke switcher, because turning on any other HDMI device would cause its port on the Vorke to become active.

In your case, with the Wii U and OSSC connected, the OSSC is always going to be active, and turning on the Wii U would cause it to take precedence over the OSSC, regardless of which ports they're connected to; and, since no mode changes on the OSSC will cause the kind of disconnection/reconnection necessary to cause the Vorke to switch back to it, the only way to get back to the OSSC would be to either manually switch to its input or turn off the Wii U. (This also makes it impossible for the Vorke to support an automatic switching setup with multiple OSSCs, if anyone's looking to do that.)

The only purpose I can see for including the Shinybow in your setup is to consolidate video formats to YPbPr to avoid annoyances with the OSSC's automatic switching, which gives up after a short time (So you'd need to either pick a different input than the one it stopped at or power cycle the OSSC to get it to scan inputs again) and/or because you're intending on adding a YPbPr distribution amp to split your legacy stuff between the OSSC and a non-RGB CRT.

[ldeveraux]

OK so I finally have a system setup I'm happy with. Mostly happy with Instead of running my SCART selectors directly into the OSSC, I run into the Shinybow. Then I have component out into a gcompsw, along with other non-SCART component outputting devices (XBOX, Wii, C64, etc). That way, the always on OSSC doesn't cause the HDMI port 4 to always be selected. The gcompsw leads to the V2 input of the OSSC, then HDMI to the Vorke. Then I can plug other HDMI systems (just the WiiU so far) into the Vorke and play those on demand and the OSSC doesn't take preference. I'm not sure the effect of going SCART to Component to HDMI, but it looks good enough for me!

I'm not sure I understand the part where you say consolidating formats to YPbPr is what enables the OSSC to not cause port 4 to always be selected. The Vorke HD41pro switches on newest-connected (and seems to fall back to the next sequentially-numbered input); so, it wouldn't matter how you wire your OSSC or the Vorke switcher, because turning on any other HDMI device would cause its port on the Vorke to become active.

In your case, with the Wii U and OSSC connected, the OSSC is always going to be active, and turning on the Wii U would cause it to take precedence over the OSSC, regardless of which ports they're connected to; and, since no mode changes on the OSSC will cause the kind of disconnection/reconnection necessary to cause the Vorke to switch back to it, the only way to get back to the OSSC would be to either manually switch to its input or turn off the Wii U. (This also makes it impossible for the Vorke to support an automatic switching setup with multiple OSSCs, if anyone's looking to do that.)

The only purpose I can see for including the Shinybow in your setup is to consolidate video formats to YPbPr to avoid annoyances with the OSSC's automatic switching, which gives up after a short time (So you'd need to either pick a different input than the one it stopped at or power cycle the OSSC to get it to scan inputs again) and/or because you're intending on adding a YPbPr distribution amp to split your legacy stuff between the OSSC and a non-RGB CRT.

Previously, I had tried auto switching with 3 "devices" into the Vorke.
1) SCART switches into the OSSC (always on), HDMI to the Vorke port 4
2) Component consoles to the gcompsw, converted to HDMI (tried many methods) to the Vorke port 2
3) Any HDMI outputting console in Vorke port 1

This would not auto switch the Vorke, and port 4 was always, always active. It was beyond annoying. I figured I could at least make all my consoles terminate component and the gcompsw would auto switch for those (it does). Then I thought I would have to manually switch the Vorke to use an HDMI console, but for some reason it doesn't. Maybe there's something with the sync changing from SCART to component that allows the Vorke to finally auto switch. I don't know the reason, I just know it works. Ask @Dirkswizzler, he'll tell you the real deal with HDMI!

[xterc]

Just as a datapoint I purchased a UHD1X2 HDMI splitter and it has died within a couple of weeks. Syncing was taking longer and longer and then eventually ... nothing ...

I'm hoping the seller will be able to supply a replacement.

[DirkSwizzler]

Previously, I had tried auto switching with 3 "devices" into the Vorke.
1) SCART switches into the OSSC (always on), HDMI to the Vorke port 4
2) Component consoles to the gcompsw, converted to HDMI (tried many methods) to the Vorke port 2
3) Any HDMI outputting console in Vorke port 1

This would not auto switch the Vorke, and port 4 was always, always active. It was beyond annoying. I figured I could at least make all my consoles terminate component and the gcompsw would auto switch for those (it does). Then I thought I would have to manually switch the Vorke to use an HDMI console, but for some reason it doesn't. Maybe there's something with the sync changing from SCART to component that allows the Vorke to finally auto switch. I don't know the reason, I just know it works. Ask @Dirkswizzler, he'll tell you the real deal with HDMI!

Was port 1 connected to another switch? The priority system on the Vorke HD41 has been pretty consistently reliable for me. As long as port 4 is the only port used for another switch or any "always on" device. This means you can only have 1 always on device in the whole chain.

Although the more I mess with my HDFury equipment. The more I lose my grip on HDMI logic.

When it works, it's awesome. But it has all these weird broken edge cases I'm dancing around.

[ldeveraux]

Previously, I had tried auto switching with 3 "devices" into the Vorke.
1) SCART switches into the OSSC (always on), HDMI to the Vorke port 4
2) Component consoles to the gcompsw, converted to HDMI (tried many methods) to the Vorke port 2
3) Any HDMI outputting console in Vorke port 1

This would not auto switch the Vorke, and port 4 was always, always active. It was beyond annoying. I figured I could at least make all my consoles terminate component and the gcompsw would auto switch for those (it does). Then I thought I would have to manually switch the Vorke to use an HDMI console, but for some reason it doesn't. Maybe there's something with the sync changing from SCART to component that allows the Vorke to finally auto switch. I don't know the reason, I just know it works. Ask @Dirkswizzler, he'll tell you the real deal with HDMI!

Was port 1 connected to another switch? The priority system on the Vorke HD41 has been pretty consistently reliable for me. As long as port 4 is the only port used for another switch or any "always on" device. This means you can only have 1 always on device in the whole chain.

Although the more I mess with my HDFury equipment. The more I lose my grip on HDMI logic.

When it works, it's awesome. But it has all these weird broken edge cases I'm dancing around.

I didn't have any other switches attached to the Vorke, just those 3 inputs. OSSC was on port 4. I can't explain it.

[DirkSwizzler]

I've begun testing a few more switches to find something that works as well as the Vorke HD41 while also maintaining ps4 pro 4k60 RGB compatibility with the HDFury Vertex 2. For some reason the vorke and hdfury don't like each other at super high bandwidth. Each one working fine without the other involved in the chain.

Since there appear to be soooooooo many rebrandings of other switches. My criteria was literally looking for different external layouts of ports/buttons/lights

I tested 2 units. And not for particularly long. So these aren't actual recommendations. Just a call for additional research if anyone doesn't mind dropping a couple bucks.
SGEYR 4K@60Hz 5x1 HDMI Switch HDMI Selector Switch 5 Port HDR IR Remote 4K HDMI Selector Box 5 in 1 Out Auto Switch HDMI Switcher 2.0 HDCP 2.2,Full HD/3D Compatible with /PS4/DVD//Xbox/Projector
This one seemed to handle all the display modes just fine. I only tested it without the hdfury vertex 2 so far. The big fault is that it has trouble autoswitching. I had OSSC on port 5, ps4 on port 1. Booted to my always-on OSSC just fine. And switched to the PS4 when I started it up. But when I turned the ps4 off. The front led's said it went back to the OSSC. But my TV said the signal was lost. I switched the OSSC off and on and it didn't help.

TOTU HDMI Switch 4 Ports (4 x 1) 4K 60Hz HDMI 2.0 Switcher with IR Remote Control Support HDR & HDCP 2.2 Pass-Through & 3D &Full HD 1080P, Compatible for PS3/PS4, Xbox 360/One, HDTV, Blu-Ray Player
This one seems very promising. It handled all my NES OSSC scales fine. It switched to PS4 4K60RGB without problem. Switched back fine. It graduated to testing with the Vertex 2. And beats out the Vorke HD41 there because it passes along PS4 fine there.
There are 2 caveats that may matter to people.
1. No audio extraction. Not a dealbreaker for me, but it was a nice feature of the Vorke HD41 & ViewHD Prosumer.
2. The switch is powered off by default after AC power loss. And since my whole rack has a master switch, this means I have to turn it on after turning on the rack. Annoying to me personally. But given the other bonuses I might just see if I can mod the hardware to bypass the power button.

One note that needs further testing on the Totu. When running the PS4 on port 1, and ossc on port 4. I tried switching the OSSC off and on again. At which point it went back to the OSSC and stayed there even though the PS4 was on. IIRC, turning off the OSSC went back to the PS4.

So, it doesn't have a strict port priority system. This might possibly allow it to chain hdmi switches on every port. Or it might cause a headache I'm unaware of.

I have 1 or 2 more switches I'm eyeballing to see if they perform as well as the Totu without the power switch.

[nmalinoski]

One note that needs further testing on the Totu. When running the PS4 on port 1, and ossc on port 4. I tried switching the OSSC off and on again. At which point it went back to the OSSC and stayed there even though the PS4 was on. IIRC, turning off the OSSC went back to the PS4.

So, it doesn't have a strict port priority system. This might possibly allow it to chain hdmi switches on every port. Or it might cause a headache I'm unaware of.

That's kind of how the Vorke HD41pro acts for me--it switches to the newest-connected device, and then falls back on the next sequentially-numbered active input.

I don't recall which consoles you have, but if you set up that switch again the way you had it, and put something like an UltraHDMI N64 on port two, you can power on the OSSC (activates port 4), then power on the PS4, then power on the N64. If you turn off the N64 and it switches to the OSSC, then it works just like the HD41pro has been for me.

[DirkSwizzler]

One note that needs further testing on the Totu. When running the PS4 on port 1, and ossc on port 4. I tried switching the OSSC off and on again. At which point it went back to the OSSC and stayed there even though the PS4 was on. IIRC, turning off the OSSC went back to the PS4.

So, it doesn't have a strict port priority system. This might possibly allow it to chain hdmi switches on every port. Or it might cause a headache I'm unaware of.

That's kind of how the Vorke HD41pro acts for me--it switches to the newest-connected device, and then falls back on the next sequentially-numbered active input.

I don't recall which consoles you have, but if you set up that switch again the way you had it, and put something like an UltraHDMI N64 on port two, you can power on the OSSC (activates port 4), then power on the PS4, then power on the N64. If you turn off the N64 and it switches to the OSSC, then it works just like the HD41pro has been for me.

Interesting. I'll have to try a 3 device setup to see if that matters. I don't have an UltraHDMI though, so it won't be apples to apples. I'm seeing in my original post notes that there's at least 1 anecdotal report of the UltraHDMI causing weird switcher behavior. Maybe that's a common factor?

In my setup. The only thing I have that's always on is the OSSC. So as long as the hdmi switch changes on new devices starting. I think that works out fine for me. I only ever expect 1 console to be powered and visible at a time. And if the OSSC reconnects on resolution change, then that might work out fine. I'd need to test though.

[nmalinoski]

I don't have an UltraHDMI though, so it won't be apples to apples. I'm seeing in my original post notes that there's at least 1 anecdotal report of the UltraHDMI causing weird switcher behavior. Maybe that's a common factor?

I was using the UltraHDMI as an example; any other HDMI device that isn't always-on should suffice for testing. My HD41pro is currently wired like so: 1=DCHDMI Dreamcast, 2=UltraHDMI N64, 3=Xbox One S, 4=OSSC.

In my setup. The only thing I have that's always on is the OSSC. So as long as the hdmi switch changes on new devices starting. I think that works out fine for me. I only ever expect 1 console to be powered and visible at a time. And if the OSSC reconnects on resolution change, then that might work out fine. I'd need to test though.

In my testing of the HD41pro, mode changes from the OSSC don't cause the switcher to switch back to it; I'd have to either turn off everything else or power cycle the OSSC to get the switcher to switch to the OSSC.

[ldeveraux]

I have 1 or 2 more switches I'm eyeballing to see if they perform as well as the Totu without the power switch.

Is this one of them? I bought it, seems OK!
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MDR9Y2I

[DirkSwizzler]

I have 1 or 2 more switches I'm eyeballing to see if they perform as well as the Totu without the power switch.

Is this one of them? I bought it, seems OK!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MDR9Y2I

Tried that one. It has trouble auto switching while the OSSC is always on. Which isn't a dealbreaker for some. But it is for me.

[evan070642]

Thanks for all your research.

I, too, am going nuts trying to get an overcomplicated HDMI setup to work.

I have an HDFury Vertex (original) as well as an HDFury 4K Integral (the second model with partial 600Mhz support). I bought the ViewHD Prosumer on your recommendation but noticed that when it is connected to either HDFury device, I have to power cycle the HDFury after switching inputs on the switch. They both work fine on their own, with the exception that I need to use the HDFury to boost the output signal for a specific fiber optic extender and thus I need to use them together.

I guess I will light some more money on fire and get a Diva that can both switch and boost.

[DirkSwizzler]

OMG I FINALLY FOUND AN SPDIF INJECTOR/INSERTER/EMBEDDER THAT DOESN'T COMPLETELY SUCK.
For realz I'm super excited because I've tried 6 or so trying to find one that doesn't have stupid flaws.

Normally they have a couple unsupported video modes with the OSSC. And a couple modes that are silent or have audio clicks/static. More of that when I get around to typing up my full graveyard.

J-Tech Digital 18Gbps Digital/Analog Audio HDMI Embedder Inserter Support 4K@60Hz 4:4:4 HDR CEC HDCP2.2/1.4 with TOSLINK Optical 3.5mm Audio Input Options [JTECH-18GAE]

All ADC conversions done with a Tascam UH-7000. (Notes on that choice at the * below)
The bit rate of the Tascam is controlled via Windows. Which was letting me pick 16bit & 24bit samples. But I believe that may have passed along the SPDIF signal as 24 bits for both. I'm not an expert on that aspect. But from what I can tell, it would have only output 24bit samples according to the AES3 standard. In any case, 16/24 bit selection in windows made no difference in the results. So lets just assume these results are only valid for 24bit

My available sampling frequencies were 44.1KHz, 48KHz, 88.2KHz, 96KHz, 176.4KHz, and 192KHz

In the notes below, I'll list the input analog resolution, then a list of OSSC scales. With each scale having notes on the frequencies supported.

TL;DR: Everything I tested works except 176.4KHz in 240p/480i/480p & SNES 32KHz in any of the 5x scales. 176.4KHz isn't well supported by my SPDIF switch. So that's easy to lose. But the 32KHz 5x makes me marginally sad. I might just stop using snes digital audio to keep compatibility high.

NES 240p Analog
R=OSSC_Scale&44.1KHz&48KHz&88.2KHz&96KHz&176.4KHz&192KHz R=1x&Works&Works&Works&Works&No Sound&Works R=2x&Works&Works&Works&Works&No Sound&Works R=3x&Works&Works&Works&Works&Works&Works R=4x&Works&Works&Works&Works&Works&Works R=5x 1920x1080&Works&Works&Works&Works&Works&Works R=5x 1600x1200&Works&Works&Works&Works&Works&Works R=5x 1920x1200&Works&Works&Works&Works&Works&Works

SNES 240p With 32KHz SPDIF mod
R=OSSC_Scale&32KHz R=1x&Works R=2x&Works R=3x&Works R=4x&Works R=5x 1920x1080&No Sound R=5x 1600x1200&No Sound R=5x 1920x1200&No Sound

PS2 480i Analog
R=OSSC_Scale&44.1KHz&48KHz&88.2KHz&96KHz&176.4KHz&192KHz R=1x&Works&Works&Works&Works&No Sound&Works R=2x&Works&Works&Works&Works&No Sound&Works R=4x&Works&Works&Works&Works&Works&Works

PS2 1080i Analog
R=OSSC_Scale&44.1KHz&48KHz&88.2KHz&96KHz&176.4KHz&192KHz R=1x&Works&Works&Works&Works&Works&Works

PS2 480i using SPDIF out. DTS tested using SSX3
R=OSSC_Scale&48KHz_Stereo&48KHz_DTS R=1x&Works&Works R=2x&Works&Works R=4x&Works&Works

PS2 1080i using SPDIF out.
R=OSSC_Scale&48KHz_Stereo R=1x&Works

XBox 720p Analog
R=OSSC_Scale&44.1KHz&48KHz&88.2KHz&96KHz&176.4KHz&192KHz R=1x&Works&Works&Works&Works&Works&Works




*I'm not enough of an audiophile to know whether the UH-7000 is a completely solid choice for an ADC. But after poking around for quality ADC tech for a couple days. And fighting all the search results returning DAC's instead. I eventually landed on Creative's X-Fi page and noticed that they touted a "Burr Brown PCM4220" as their ADC. I figured even if Creative got other things wrong, they probably only promoted that chip so much because it's definitely a solid performer. But being unhappy with the 96KHz sampling limit in the X-Fi. And a general wariness of whether I could set it up to operate independantly. I eventually discovered that the UH-7000 also had a Burr Brown PCM4220. Could sample all the way up to 192KHz. And could definitely be configured to operate the way I want it to as AC power is restored (my whole rack has a master switch).





Now, for the short notes on the graveyard. These are my ongoing notes to myself of what to expect to fail on each device. This is by no means a complete set of tests. I generally would test something until it annoyed me too much to keep testing. And these are somewhat old notes. So please forgive any inaccuracies.

gofanco Prophecy 4K 60Hz HDMI Audio Extractor & Embedder via S/PDIF Toslink + 3.5 MM Stereo, 4K 60Hz YUV 4:4:4, HDR, HDMI 2.0a, HDCP 2.2, 18Gbps, ARC, CEC, Audio Extraction & Embedded
Silence most of the time at 1080p scale. Occassionally dropped frames but I don't have good notes for this one because it's one of the few devices I've ever returned.
The SPDIF input has a little spring loaded door that broke on 2 separate units with only a few gentle uses each time. And once that door breaks, the Toslink cable isn't secured anymore and flops out easily.

Monoprice Blackbird 4K Series HDMI Audio Inserter
All the 5x scales glitch out. 240p might have had crackling audio at 192khz

Monoprice DVI Video + Digital Coaxial and Digital Optical Audio to HDMI Converter
I was completely unable to get this thing to integrate audio at all. Doesn't perform it's only task. I think it also failed on OSSC test pattern. I didn't test it much past "doesn't work at all". And when I revisited it again this week. All the video was tinted yellowish. Maybe it doesn't handle RGB color space over hdmi.

Gefen EXT-DVIAUD-2-HDMI
Does not support 240p video. Does not support 96KHz or 192KHz at 480p.
720p 192KHz has crackling noise.

VPI DVI-HD-CNVTR
I'm pretty sure this is just an alternate branding of the Gefen above. Looks similar and has similar issues. I also have a note that it doesn't support 44.1KHz at any scale. That might apply to the gefen as well.

Black Box AEMEX-HDMI-R2
960p video cuts out.
192Khz doesn't have audio for 240p, 480p, 1920x1080, and 1920x1200
96KHz doesn't have audio for 1920x1080 and 1920x1200
240p and 480p vido cuts out at 96khz

Kramer FC-49
720p 192KHz video cuts out
No audio for 240p 96KHz or 192KHz. No audio for 480p 96KHz

[nmalinoski]

Which OSSC firmware were you using when you were testing the J-Tech injector?

Also, maybe I'm misunderstanding the target audience for these things, but I find it a little disappointing that it doesn't appear to be able to automatically select an alternate audio source; my use case would be an audio injector that can be configured to use HDMI audio by default, and then switch to optical if it detects audio coming in over optical, so that I can put a device like this between my OSSC and AVR so I could avoid creating a separate OSSC profile to switch TX mode to DVI to get my AVR to fall back on TOSLINK.

[DirkSwizzler]

Which OSSC firmware were you using when you were testing the J-Tech injector?

0.84a . While I didn't take new notes with 0.84a w.r.t. the graveyard. I did make a recent run through it looking to see if the audio frame change made a difference. Didn't seem to.

Also, maybe I'm misunderstanding the target audience for these things, but I find it a little disappointing that it doesn't appear to be able to automatically select an alternate audio source; my use case would be an audio injector that can be configured to use HDMI audio by default, and then switch to optical if it detects audio coming in over optical, so that I can put a device like this between my OSSC and AVR so I could avoid creating a separate OSSC profile to switch TX mode to DVI to get my AVR to fall back on TOSLINK.

I hear you. I haven't seen any that do that. I have however seen the opposite where some will fail to inject spdif audio if the original hdmi signal doesn't already have audio.

My original goal was to get snes, xbox, and ps2 digital audio integrated into my hdmi chain. It helps me stick to my plan of fully automatic switching without limiting new consoles to 5.1 audio.

I send all the above spdif signals into This automatic SPDIF switcher with the Tascam UH-7000 on the lowest priority port to fall back to analog audio when a native digital signal is not available. This switch is absolutely awesome. The only complaint I have is that it has trouble keeping a signal lock on 192KHz . It can hold it for a long time under the right circumstances so I'm slowly going back and forth with the creator on trying to get it to work all the time. It also has no support for 176.4KHz. But I can live without that. For now I leave the UH-7000 defaulted to 96KHz for stability with the switch. Then bypass the switch when I want 192KHz for whatever reason.

[DirkSwizzler]

Tested a few more devices.

Switches:
Unnlink HDMI Switch 5 Port 5x1 HDMI 2.0 UHD4K@60Hz/fps 4:4:4 18Gbps 10Bit Deep Color HDR HDCP 2.2 3D 5 in 1 Out Auto Switch IR Remote Compatible with Xbox One X PS4 Pro Roku Fire TV Box Computer
This is basically the junk. I had a couple problems that led to a quick rejection on my first pass. And my second pass where I planned to take notes, the unit apparently died. It felt flimsy so I'm not bothering to check if I just got a lemon.

FERRISA 4K 60Hz 4x1 HDMI Switch, 4 Port Auto HDMI Switch Box with IR Remote,Support HDCP 2.2 4Kx2K 3D 1080P,4 in 1 Out HDMI Switch Switcher Selector for Xbox360/PS4/PS3/Nintendo/Roku/to TV Projector
This one seemed to have good signal compatibility. But the auto switching was a bit bizarre. It would switch to higher priority ports automatically. But never back down even if I power cycled the OSSC.

J-Tech Digital 5 Port HDMI Switch & Audio Extractor SPDIF Jack Stereo Outputs with Ultra HD 4K ARC EDID Setting with Control4 Driver Available (5x1 Ultra HD)
I misread this as supporting 4K60, but it's limited to 4K30. Also apparently has no auto switching at all. I *think* it did fine with OSSC compatibility. If anyone demands better notes, I can retest eventually.

TESmart Ultra HD 4x1 HDMI 4K@60Hz 4:4:4 The Fast Switch 4Kx2K 4 Port HDMI Switch Box Selector 4x1 with S/PDIF and L/R Audio Output, IR Wireless Remote Control, HDMI Switch 4 in 1 Out (Red)
This one was highly compatible. And autoswitching seems to work pretty well when the OSSC is only competing with 1 other device. But I had a weird autoswitch result with 3 devices.
1. ps4 on port 1
2. xbox one on port 2
4. ossc
OSSC was always on. Powered ps4 and it successfully came up. Powered xbox on port 2 and then that took over. Powered down xbox and then the OSSC was displayed instead of the PS4. I'm holding out hope that this is actually a favorable result somehow for chaining switches on each port. Who knows.
It also had a similar issue to my Vorke HD41's where running ps4 pro 4k60 rgb with 7.1 LPCM worked fine feeding into my viewhd audio extractor. But as soon as I replaced the viewhd audio extractor with the hdfury vertex 2 (which has the same extraction feature). I would get single frame glitches every few minutes. Accompanied by a quick sound glitch.
This is better than the VorkeHD41 did though. I didn't navigate much past the PS4 dashboard because the glitches were so bad there. The glitches on this TESmart were only mildly annoying and still very playable.


I didn't test it. But I noticed that the Vorke HD41 & ViewHD Prosumer switch appears to have shown up under JTech branding as well.
J-Tech Digital HDMI Audio Extractor Switcher 4x1 HDMI 2.0 4K@60Hz with 18Gbps, HDCP 2.2, HDR10, Analog/Digital Audio Output, Supporting CEC, ARC, with IR Remote and auto-Switching [JTECH-SWE41]


SPDIF embedders:
ViewHD Prosumer HDMI 3x1 Switch | 4K@30Hz HDMI v1.4 | MIC Audio Injection / Combiner | HDMI Audio Extractor | Optical / Coax / RCA L/R to HDMI Audio| ARC | Model: VHD-PH3X1GS
Seemed to work pretty well with NES 240p with 96KHz sound at scales 1,2,3, & 4. All the 5x scales had varying graphical glitches.
Doesn't work with higher sample rates than 96KHz, and a couple spot checks of lower rates shows spotty support.
I cut the test off there since it had no hope of beating the JTech embedder. Still, my gut just tells me this thing is going to be useful somehow.

[clintkolodziej]

Couple questions after getting a bit up to speed here.

1. Is there a list of consoles/devices that have been found to cause trouble with autoswitching? Looks like OSSC, switches themselves (when uplinked/chained), I can confirm the SteamLink box is another that causes issues for me.

2. Looks like the holy grail here is finding a switcher (at a reasonable price) that looks for an actual signal, and not just some power line that may be left hot from devices in #1 (believe this is hot plug detect/HPD). Has anyone tried more pro-level gear, like switchers from Extron, Atlona, Key Digital, AVPro Edge, etc? Considering the Vertex 2 is ~400$ that may be an indicator that you get what you pay for in terms of autoswitching logic, hopefully one of those other brands (or similar) has something similar at a bit of a lower cost -- they have prohibitively expensive devices, but most do have 4x1 switch options as well.

3. Related to #2, if there is a quality switcher as a hub that connects to cheaper switches, that would allow a more optimal star topology compared to the previous daisy-chained topology that has been suggested. That would keep the sync time down with less *hops* from device to TV. It's unlikely based on what we are seeing that we'll get a 8x1 or 12x1 or more switch that autoswitches properly, to handle most of our port needs, but with a quality 4-port switch as a hub connected to 4 other *child* switchers we're at a healthy 16 ports. The rub here is that the hub needs to support the highest resolution/frame rate that we would need, which would be a challenge.

4. Ideally whatever it is also doesn't add lag, but that appears to be easier to find. If a switch claims to do anything on the signal beyond pass-through that would be a candidate to test for lag for sure.

I did a bit of research on some of those pro-level vendors, here's what I found on it:

Extron:
They have a SW HD 4K Series of switches (https://www.extron.com/product/swhd4kseries) but they max out at 10.2Gbps, so that 4K is a misnomer, I think that may mean 4K@30 max. It doesn't appear they autoswitch either.

Atlona:
They have a 4x1 called the AT-JUNO-451 that is promising (https://atlona.com/product/at-juno-451/). It does 4K@60 4:4:4 + HDR. It looks like it has Optical out for return audio, though that doesn't handle most of the newer audio formats so if you need to split out audio another device would be needed if you want support for that. It specifically mentions that it looks for a video signal in addition to the HPD (hot plug detect) signal. Looks like this is going for between 200$ and 400$ on Ebay at the moment, or 400$ new on Amazon/B&H/etc (https://www.amazon.com/Atlona-AT-JUNO-4 ... B01MYCSQNQ).

Reliable Auto-Switching
The JunoX 451 automatically selects an input source based on detection of the 5 volt hot plug detect (HPD) signal, as well as active video. This ensures reliable auto-switching operation for all video sources, including DVRs, DisplayPort / Mini DisplayPort adapters, and other devices that always maintain the HPD line at the 5 volt “high” state but may not be delivering active video.

Key Digital:
They have a KD-S4X1 (http://keydigital.com/product.aspx?ItemCode=KDS4x1) that is 4x1 and looks to support 4K@60 4:4:4. It mentions TDMS re-clocking/signal-regeneration, and a bunch of other things that are out of my area of expertise but sound promising. The one area here is I don't see mention of auto-switching, I'm not sure if I'm just missing that though, may be worth looking into further outside of their product website to see if it has that. This is going for ~150 on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0716Y8HT1/re ... KDbVEKV7SX) so it is more affordable.

AVPro Edge:
This one turned up empty, I thought they had a 4x1 at some point though I may be remembering incorrectly, but their website only shows Matrix switches, which unless I'm missing something none of those autoswitch due to the nature of what they are trying to accomplish.

I don't know a ton of other pro-level brands to check out, but I'll keep my eye out, if anyone has other suggestions please share, looks to me like that Atlona JUNO-X is the one to watch for unless the Key Digital turns out to have auto-switching.

[clintkolodziej]

On the Key Digital switches, it's looking like the KD-S4x1 doesn't auto switch. The manual mentions HPD, but looks like it is to inform the connected device (aka console) that the display is active:

HPD Control
Hot Plug Detection (HPD) may be forced in order to provide the connected input/source with
the necessary voltage to inform the device that an output/display is connected and active.
In cases of many layers of connectivity, HPD may be lost leading to no signal at the display.
In those cases, forcing the HPD mode on will keep an active signal on at all times. The Key
Digital IR Remote is required to change the HPD mode of the KD-S2x1/KD-S4x1 unit.

They have a brand new switch called KD-S4x1X (http://keydigital.com/product.aspx?ItemCode=KDS4x1X) that appears to have auto-switching, but it mentions HPD again and doesn't specifically say it looks for an active video signal as well. It's unclear if it's reference to HPD here is to switch off HPD to inform the device/console that the display is off as mentioned above. It also appears that you switch on *auto-sensing* via the remote, and it looks like it is disabled if you manually select a source, which could be annoying if you ever need to manually switch temporarily. Looks like these are out now actually, I found it on Amazon for 200$ (https://www.amazon.com/Key-Digital-KD-S ... 937&sr=8-1)

Auto-Sensing: Automatic selection of newly detected source and switching from newly disconnected source via hot plug detection voltage when enabled

Auto Sensing Mode
Press the AUTO button on the IR remote control to enable Auto Sensing Mode
Auto Sensing mode is automatically disabled when the KD-S2x1X/4x1X is manually controlled by
the front panel button or IR remote control. If fixed Auto Sensing is required, please contact Key Digital
Technical Support for a list of applicable models.
› ON » Unit will automatically select a newly detected active source. If current source is disconnected
or becomes inactive, auto sensing will sequentially advance to an active input/source
› OFF » Unit is in normal mode and regular switching functionality will occur

They also have KD-Pro4x1 and KD-Pro4x1X models, looks like they have an "Auto-Sensing" switch on the front, which is better than having to enable that via the remote. Still doesn't mention how it auto-senses, it mentions an "HDMI Signal" but doesn't elaborate on how it detects that. One of the same Amazon sellers is selling the Pro4x1 for 459$, I don't see the X-version listed there, but it appears these "Pro" models might be getting out of the realm of *affordable* unless they can be found elsewhere or second-hand.

Auto Sensing Slide Switch
The KD-Pro2x1/KD-Pro4x1 unit may auto sense for a present HDMI signal to switch input.
There are two positions for this switch.
Auto Sensing ON
» Unit is forced to auto sense for a present HDMI signal and will switch to the
corresponding input/source that is detected
» The IR Remote , RS-232, or TCP/IP commands cannot change the state of the Auto
Sense mode
Auto Sensing OFF
» Unit is in normal mode and regular switching functionality will occur
» The IR Remote, RS-232, or TCP/IP commands may enable or disable the Auto Sense
mode

[DirkSwizzler]

I believe that signal reclocking is a pretty common feature in these switches. I believe that's the reason more hops add more delay during resolution changes.

I'm still on the fence whether the TMDS based switching in the vertex 2 is worth it. I have yet to find a reliable way to break that out into more switches without having those switches override the always-on ossc.

As I've been testing a new batch of switches lately. I've noticed that my recent testing on autoswitching was flawed. The PS4 seems to be a common denominator for breaking fallback behavior in my unpublished tests. Most of these autoswitches trigger well based on new inputs becoming active. So if we could get some changes to the OSSC such that it turns off it's output when there's no input, it might play much more nicely with autoswitching.

I agree that it's unlikely to find an 8+ port autoswitch. It seems like autoswitching caps out at 5 inputs in general. As for breaking out a switch into more switches in a star formation. I've been thinking that the ubiquity of the 5v trigger logic may work to our advantage.

If we consider the SGEYR 4K@60Hz 5x1 HDMI Switch:
-It has 5 inputs, the maximum I've found among automatic switchers
-It has great signal compatibility with all of my inputs.
-It can forward ps4 pro 4k60rgb to the vertex 2 without introducing glitches (quite a few switches fail this part).
-It has decent autoswitching fallback as long as I'm not using the ps4 with it. XB1 and Nintendo switch power up and display fine, then go back to ossc on power down.

It also has one useful feature that might make it a great platform for modding. It *only* lights up an indicator light for an active input if one is actually on. Most switches will still show a light for the most recently activated input.

That means it already has logic we can tap for knowing that at least 1 input is active. I've been thinking that if we lift the output hdmi pins for +5v (and hotplug?). And introduce some kind of electronically activated switch for each of those pins. Which I believe would be fairly easy to combine the lights into OR gates to drive those switches. Then it would only trigger downstream switches when an input is active. Which gets us our star hub functionality.

If I wasn't completely shit at EE I would have tried it already. I'm on the fence about buying a second unit today just as a tiny bit of motivation to lift the pins and start tinkering.

[clintkolodziej]

Yeah, that sounds like that would work, but now we'd need to mod our HDMI switches and our consoles, where will it end!! Just another rabbit hole I guess. I'm definitely not qualified to help *design* a mod, but if it's as simple as soldering or de-soldering something here and cutting a trace there that would be a really good alternative to spending a ton of money.

Anyway, since i'm not qualified to help there, I'll continue down the alternative path and hope to find a unicorn 4x1 that actually checks for a video signal in addition to the port being "hot" (OSSC/SteamLink, may be others?). I think you mentioned the HD Fury Vertex 2 did that, which is great, but 400$ isn't a very accessible solution for most. Additionally that's brand new I believe so finding an eBay or Amazon deal would be non-existent. I just checked and YES it is non-existent.

My thoughts are:
1. Get that unicorn switch I mentioned, probably $$$ but hopefully not 400$
2. As you mentioned, find the most optimal downstream consumer-level (cheap) switches that will pass those bandwidth intensive use cases to the unicorn and chain 4 of those off the 4 ports on the more expensive switch. In that case even with relatively poor autoswitching on those children, as long as it is consistent you could throw the OSSC, SteamLink, Device X, and Device Y on the highest port (Port 4/5) of each of the downstream switches as you did in your daisy-chain solution, and since the parent switch actually looks for a video signal I think it should work fine, even though all the switches themselves report as "hot" as well. That way we could go from being able to support 1 misbehaving device at the end of the chain, to up to 4 of those.

As for the OSSC, does anyone know if it is just a firmware fix to set the HDMI port "hot" only when a sync signal is detected, or is that a hardware thing? If it's a firmware thing we probably just need to have a loud enough voice asking for it. I asked for a feature to allow disabling of the test pattern, but it was only me asking for it on their feature request forums so it got buried. I figured that was the only auto-switching issue, but it looks like it still causes an issue without the test pattern active. I may not have noticed that at the time as my setup was much smaller back then, I think I only had one gscart and only a few hdmi devices.

I'm currently in a back-and-forth with tech support for Key Digital on the issue, I'm hoping my last email clarifies things, otherwise I'll probably pick up an eBay Atlona Juno-X to see if that works in the way I want. The Juno is the only one that specifically says it looks for a video signal as well, the only problem is it is 400$ retail also, which is a bummer, but I see a few on eBay unlike the Vertex 2. If the Key Digital looks for active video signals too that could work since it is 200$ new from Amazon for the KD-S4x1X.

[DirkSwizzler]

When I asked marqs about disabling the test pattern last year. He mentioned that the 5v output was hardwired on the board. Which makes sense unless you care about auto-switching friendliness.

But if we can get the test pattern disabled. I'm assuming there's room somewhere on the board to introduce a simple hardware revision to turn off 5v output as well.

If the hdmi switch mod turns out well. I'm hoping I can apply similar logic to the OSSC itself. Someone on the OSSC thread had a mod that turns the whole unit off when there wasn't a 5V scart input. But that one looked considerably more complicated than I was willing to tackle on a lark.

And since I only care about 5v output. I think my amperage requirements will be lower and hopefully reduce complexity.

[clintkolodziej]

Damn, was hoping it was just firmware. At least if others have already been attempting to tackle the issue maybe there is hope for a future hardware revision, or a mod that isn't too complicated. I definitely won't mess with my OSSC if its a complicated mod, I'll look for some other workaround since I'm not an expert modder at this point.

Just curious, why have it turn off the whole OSSC? Was this a concern about power usage, or autoswitching? Would the mod be less complex if just disabling 5V on the HDMI output?

Just got off the phone with Key Digital's tech support. They couldn't definitively say their devices would autoswitch correctly with SteamLink/OSSC (or other devices that *sleep* like DVD/Bluray players, etc) but they believe it would, the guy apparently talked with the Engineers after my first couple emails, once we talked through it he seemed confident that what they told him applied to this use case. He said worst case I could just return it if it didn't work out. I'm not 100% convinced to give it a shot but I may if I can't find the Atlona for a decent price on eBay. I guess at least with the Key Digital they have it on Amazon so you can pretty much return it for any reason without a problem, though he did mention that they only warranty the devices though certified resellers, not via Amazon sellers.

Yeah, keep us all posted if you come up with a mod for the switch, I'd definitely try it out on a cheap switch that you can order and have a day later if you kill it, rather than on an OSSC.