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 Post subject: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:35 pm 


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I ordered both of these boards, and am just wondering what people think of them, in general?
I'm primarily interested in the Sega RGB, as I would like a bit better of a picture from my Genesis. I know that it gets rid of jailbars, but it does sharpen the pic a bit, and boosts the colors too, yes?
Any benefits to the Genesis Model 2?

I had an old thread on this, but the board hasn't been available to buy until now, and I couldn't find my old thread. So, sorry mods.
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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:48 am 



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I was going to put the Genesis RGB board in my model 1 VA3 but decided not to. FirebrandX apparently found his picture to be worse after the mod on his VA3. The pin lift didn't completely remove my jailbars so I was hoping for an improvement. I imagine you'll see favorable results with a later model 1 or all model 2s. Sound was my biggest problems with later model 1's and and all model 2's.

I'm a little surprised this board is now sold in Voultars shop. It's not nearly as needed as all the others. Genesis RGB for the most part seems to be excellent as long as you do the pin lift. Jailbars are a real annoyance if you're using an upscaler.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:39 am 


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The Genesis RGB board is quite useful for model 2 and 3 designs from what I heard. RetroRGB has been spending a lot of resources and time helping Voultar sus out the issues with model 1 consoles, but until such time as they find the solution, you're better off on the earlier model 1 consoles just doing the subcarrier trace cut or VDP pin 50 lift. Now some VDPs will have a different pinout, so it's always important to use a multimeter and actually track the trace to the correct pin before attempting the lift. Just a fair warning because not all VDPs are the same orientation or pinout.
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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:16 pm 


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How much does it improve a model 2's picture? I have two model 2s that I would like to install these in.
I saw a couple of comparison screenshots on Voular's Twitter, but it'd be nice to see more. It's almost mysterious. :lol:

I wouldn't do it, but I would get someone. So, I don't need much technical advice on that.
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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:26 am 


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Anyone have any comparison video links?
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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:29 am 



Joined: 13 Dec 2015
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Anyone know of a good installer for the Sega RGB board? Need one installed in my CDX


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:38 pm 


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I'll say one thing...he ships freaking quick. Got mine in today.

I have a guy in mind for modding, but I'll have to ask him if he does it. I'll let you know in a PM, if I have any luck.
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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:29 pm 


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You guys want me to do a video on it?

The board is strictly, strictly DIY. I gave it away for free, but a lot of people wanted me to manufacture and sell them.

Regardless of what system you're putting it in, lift the RGB pins out of circuit via the VDP from the board to mitigate coupling and to obtain proper isolation.

There still some digital stuff to address on M1 VA0-VA3 that no RGB Bypass board can address. But if you're putting it in a VA5+, M2, CDX, Wondermega, etc. etc.. It really does the trick, nicely.
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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:39 pm 


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I would love to see a vid on it. I have it sitting here. And I am squinting at it....suspiciously. :wink:

I did see a couple of stills you had on it, and the results looked nice. But it was only a few Sonic pics.

I still wouldn't be able to do it myself though. It would be like getting a chimpanzee to do it, with an icepick.
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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:58 pm 


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I've got one sitting here I have yet to get around to installing, a video could only be a good thing for me!


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:45 pm 



Joined: 02 Sep 2012
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Here's my install. The revision is a Model 1 VA6.

Warning HUGE image...

Spoiler: show
Image


Lifting and soldering pins on the VDP didn't go so well as it introduced some random screen blanking issues. I think I had a bridge somewhere. I also wanted room to install Firebrandx's upcoming audio bypass mod.

For the most part, I can't really see a difference between my Model 1 VA3, Model 2 VA3, and this one, all outputting via RGBS to an OSSC. I'm thinking I messed up somewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:53 am 


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I have someone to install this, but they need instructions. Any diagrams or vids out there? Or just a list of what to do?
He's a very reputable modder, but hasn't done this particular one before.

I'm finding instructions for the MD1, but I'm not seeing anything for the MD2.

Also, will Retro Console Accessories Mega Drive 2 cable work with this? Or will I have to get something else?
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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:33 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
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Ruprit:
I believe that the point of this board is to take the RGB via shortest route to the THS amplifier.
It minimizes the area in which all the noisy digital lines can interfere with the video.

If you install it on the backside of the mainboard like this, you loose that benefit.
All you're left with then is the superior amplifier. Try to enable the LPF if you haven't already.
Maybe it's enough to get rid of the jailbars.

The PCB should really sit on top of the VDP though, with very short cables for RGB.

5V and Gnd should probably be taken from the analog 5V (AVC) and analog ground pins (or close to them).
Image

(Did anyone else notice this VDP is seriously starved of power pins?)


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:46 pm 



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rama wrote:
Ruprit:
I believe that the point of this board is to take the RGB via shortest route to the THS amplifier.
It minimizes the area in which all the noisy digital lines can interfere with the video.

If you install it on the backside of the mainboard like this, you loose that benefit.
All you're left with then is the superior amplifier. Try to enable the LPF if you haven't already.
Maybe it's enough to get rid of the jailbars.

The PCB should really sit on top of the VDP though, with very short cables for RGB.

5V and Gnd should probably be taken from the analog 5V (AVC) and analog ground pins (or close to them).
Spoiler: show
Image


(Did anyone else notice this VDP is seriously starved of power pins?)



Thanks for that. I figured I needed to isolate the RGB pins.

So, I bought some smaller gauge wire for another attempt at do just that. Unfortunately, my hand slipped on the last pin and I managed to snap it :p.

I've got another board on the way but I'm trying to decide whether or not I want to try again. It's probably beyond my current skill-set and I feel really guilty about breaking a motherboard.

Plus I want to focus on the DuoRGB mod for this long weekend. No pin lifting on that one!


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:12 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
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I snapped a SNES pin when I started mod work ;p

It's a good learning experience that tells you a lot about the limits of the material.
Your next projects will work out better!

Anyway, you can dremel the area and expose a bit of metal to solder to (I hope the images in the links work?):
https://circuit-board.de/forum/index.ph ... post731564
https://circuit-board.de/forum/index.ph ... 4#post1164


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:25 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
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Ruprit wrote:
Thanks for that. I figured I needed to isolate the RGB pins.
So, I bought some smaller gauge wire for another attempt at do just that. Unfortunately, my hand slipped on the last pin and I managed to snap it :p.
I've got another board on the way but I'm trying to decide whether or not I want to try again. It's probably beyond my current skill-set and I feel really guilty about breaking a motherboard.
Plus I want to focus on the DuoRGB mod for this long weekend. No pin lifting on that one!


My personal experience is that lifting pins should be avoided wherever possible. Heck, I don't even like soldering to pins for the same reason. Broke traces on both a TG16 and a CoreGrafx just by bumping the wire that was soldered to the pin a little too hard. Fortunately, in the case of the CoreGrafx I was able to run a short wire to another pin since it was just for ground, but yeah. I'm sure others feel differently, but if possible, I'd avoid messing with the pins in favor of finding other places to tap signal from.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:43 pm 



Joined: 02 Sep 2012
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rama wrote:
I snapped a SNES pin when I started mod work ;p

It's a good learning experience that tells you a lot about the limits of the material.
Your next projects will work out better!

Anyway, you can dremel the area and expose a bit of metal to solder to (I hope the images in the links work?):
https://circuit-board.de/forum/index.ph ... post731564
https://circuit-board.de/forum/index.ph ... 4#post1164


That will be for a time when I have much more experience and a great deal more bravery.

It's good to know that the motherboard isn't complete scrap though.

thebigcheese wrote:
Ruprit wrote:
Thanks for that. I figured I needed to isolate the RGB pins.
So, I bought some smaller gauge wire for another attempt at do just that. Unfortunately, my hand slipped on the last pin and I managed to snap it :p.
I've got another board on the way but I'm trying to decide whether or not I want to try again. It's probably beyond my current skill-set and I feel really guilty about breaking a motherboard.
Plus I want to focus on the DuoRGB mod for this long weekend. No pin lifting on that one!


My personal experience is that lifting pins should be avoided wherever possible. Heck, I don't even like soldering to pins for the same reason. Broke traces on both a TG16 and a CoreGrafx just by bumping the wire that was soldered to the pin a little too hard. Fortunately, in the case of the CoreGrafx I was able to run a short wire to another pin since it was just for ground, but yeah. I'm sure others feel differently, but if possible, I'd avoid messing with the pins in favor of finding other places to tap signal from.


I feel the same way now, it's a great deal of risk. Unfortunately, I had to solder to pins to install Voultar's DuoRGB board which op also asked about.

The DuoRGB install took a long time, mainly because I worked extra slowly and carefully after botching the SSEGA RGB install. However, unlike the SEGA RGB mod, the DuoRGB is an absolute necessity because you're stuck with composite video without it. It's also a much more straightforward install.

I'll post again when I have the new VA6 replacement but for now my thoughts are:

Model 1 VA3: VDP Pin 50 lifted = Jailbars mostly removed, with OSSC scanlines applied they're barely visible.

Model 1 VA 6: VDP Pin 50 lifted = Jailbars almost entirely removed, with OSSC scanlines applied they're not visible.

Model 2 VA 3: No Jailbars. It might be a simpler solution to hunt down one of these and install a Mega Amp.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:07 pm 


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Ruprit wrote:

I'll post again when I have the new VA6 replacement but for now my thoughts are:

Model 1 VA3: VDP Pin 50 lifted = Jailbars mostly removed, with OSSC scanlines applied they're barely visible.

Model 1 VA 6: VDP Pin 50 lifted = Jailbars almost entirely removed, with OSSC scanlines applied they're not visible.

Model 2 VA 3: No Jailbars. It might be a simpler solution to hunt down one of these and install a Mega Amp.


I've got a stock Model 1 VA7 I intend to check RGB quality on and see if the subcarrier removal improves it. I'll post the before and afters here later on.
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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:54 pm 



Joined: 29 Apr 2018
Posts: 21
I’ve used voultar’s and mickcris’s pc engine boards. Both work well. I highly recommend Tim Worthington’s board for original white pc engines to amplify the audio.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:02 pm 



Joined: 22 Oct 2018
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I just ordered one for my Japanese Model 1.

I'll post my impressions once I've had it installed but here's hoping it at the very least reduces them substantially.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:14 am 


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Mine's modded, and on it's way. I'll report.
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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:15 pm 


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Well, I like it.

If I plug in two different Genesis systems, and have the TV at the same settings, the color is more vibrant, the picture is a bit brighter, and there seems to be a *little* more clarity.
I was most interested in this mod, due to the more saturated colors, and it definitely does that. It's not bonkers different, but it's enough that you notice, and it matters.
Before I could almost get the picture I was wanting, but I would have to crank the color WAY up, and the sharpness, and then I would have to stop before I started getting bleeding problems.
The PCE CD mod I got made a little difference, as it was a DD mod (which didn't look that great originally), but tweaked by this modder. It looked pretty good after that, honestly. The DuoRGB mod seems to tone the bleeding down.
Voultar's mods seem to be good at controlling bleeding, in general.

So, I like this mod.
The fellow that installed it for me didn't see as big a difference as me, and he said he thought the picture was brighter. I *think* he was using it on an panel screen (from pictures he sent me) and not a CRT (like me), so keep that in mind if you're interested in this mod.

I'm wondering what that low pass filter looks like, as we left it off.

Also, I don't think this mod is completely free of problems with the Master System, from what I hear. So, if that's the system you want to mod, I would maybe wait a little bit, until people figure it out more.
I used this on a Model 2.

I would LOVE to hear anyone else's experience with this, on a Model 2.
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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:35 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
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Just a question on your cable:
Is it still a regular Mega Drive RGB cable, with 3 x 220uF caps and 3 x 75 Ohm resistors?
( Like this: http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ ... m#megamstr )

Regarding the filter:
You won't see any sharpness difference on your CRT, but if you used a modern upscaler, the filter enabled setting could blur the image very slightly.
The filter will help tremendously against jailbars though. Just for that, I'd personally always enable it.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:12 am 


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rama wrote:
Just a question on your cable:
Is it still a regular Mega Drive RGB cable, with 3 x 220uF caps and 3 x 75 Ohm resistors?
( Like this: http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ ... m#megamstr )

Regarding the filter:
You won't see any sharpness difference on your CRT, but if you used a modern upscaler, the filter enabled setting could blur the image very slightly.
The filter will help tremendously against jailbars though. Just for that, I'd personally always enable it.


Thanks for the info on the filter.

I couldn't answer your question about the cable. I'm sorry.
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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:10 pm 



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Okay,
is the cable working fine on unmodified Mega Drives? :)


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:29 pm 


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Yes. Perfectly.
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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:33 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 570
Good to know.
Looking at Voultar's design here, the DC coupling option is quite nice.
Minimal external components and works with stock cables :)


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone use Voultar's Sega RGB or DuoRGB boards?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:25 am 


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I definitely like the mod. There should be more comparison pics and installation instructions on it.

It's sort of mysterious, especially outside of the Model 1.
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