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 Post subject: Re: Kd30xs955.....can this be fixed in service menu?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:21 am 


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Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs
Keep in mind, though, that "SyncMaster" (Samsung) and "MultiSync" are brands used on many monitors that are barely applicable - for example, common CRT PC monitors, and the SyncMaster brand is used on LCD monitors which are totally irrelelvant for this use.

Many gamers would consider "multisync" to mean being able to display 15KHz, 21KHz ("medium resolution") and 31KHz (CRT PC resolutions up to more modern resolutions) as multisync, but NEC MultiSync PC monitors will likely be just 31KHz, for PC use only.

As long as you have a feel for the intended use of the set, you should be fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Kd30xs955.....can this be fixed in service menu?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:26 am 



Joined: 27 Sep 2018
Posts: 67
reldvs1 wrote:
Did ANY black curved Sony Trini's have component?

As far as I know, no, but I'm sure somebody out there will correct me if that isn't the case. Every curved Sony Trinitron I know of with YPbPr is a pro PVM/BVM. You're looking at the flat screens to get component on consumer Sony displays.

Interestingly, the early curved Sony XBR displays did have a proprietary RGB connector on them, but good luck finding any in the wild at this point. The Bang & Olufsen TVs where the exact same TV in a different case, if memory serves.

reldvs1 wrote:
Please don't think I'm not doing searches on models before asking, I do try.

Don't forget Ibotta as well as they seem to have good penetration in many markets, along with a region fenced auto search on Ebay, if you aren't already doing those.


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 Post subject: Re: Kd30xs955.....can this be fixed in service menu?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:04 am 



Joined: 24 Sep 2018
Posts: 59
energizerfellow‌ wrote:
reldvs1 wrote:
Did ANY black curved Sony Trini's have component?

As far as I know, no, but I'm sure somebody out there will correct me if that isn't the case. Every curved Sony Trinitron I know of with YPbPr is a pro PVM/BVM. You're looking at the flat screens to get component on consumer Sony displays.

Interestingly, the early curved Sony XBR displays did have a proprietary RGB connector on them, but good luck finding any in the wild at this point. The Bang & Olufsen TVs where the exact same TV in a different case, if memory serves.

reldvs1 wrote:
Please don't think I'm not doing searches on models before asking, I do try.

Don't forget Ibotta as well as they seem to have good penetration in many markets, along with a region fenced auto search on Ebay, if you aren't already doing those.

That is funny you should say that about xbr....I just read that myself. I only found one model that had it in the US so far. But if it was on one model, maybe there was another xbr....I found a VERY old xbr, looks right from pics to be possible but the drive. ....and he said it's too big to get behind. So unless I find something that makes me think it is a more compelling reason to go investigate. I'll probably wait. I'll study those pics he sent closely though lol. .....how cool would that be, RGB scart factory on a USA tv!

Is it true on the curved Sony that the 20" model could have the same tube as BVM? Someone said that. I know it would not have bnc or component most likely but if you RGB mod it and it has same tube. ... maybe something to consider looking out for? I do know of one but unless these are more than just rumors and myth, she wants $25....

Thanks for the additional resource suggestions too btw!


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 Post subject: Re: Kd30xs955.....can this be fixed in service menu?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:16 am 



Joined: 24 Sep 2018
Posts: 59
Ed Oscuro wrote:
Keep in mind, though, that "SyncMaster" (Samsung) and "MultiSync" are brands used on many monitors that are barely applicable - for example, common CRT PC monitors, and the SyncMaster brand is used on LCD monitors which are totally irrelelvant for this use.

Many gamers would consider "multisync" to mean being able to display 15KHz, 21KHz ("medium resolution") and 31KHz (CRT PC resolutions up to more modern resolutions) as multisync, but NEC MultiSync PC monitors will likely be just 31KHz, for PC use only.

As long as you have a feel for the intended use of the set, you should be fine.

OK that is very useful to know when looking at his nec monitors.
He has like 5 or 6 mix of the two. Now I know what frequency to look for in specs. Thanks!

Now I do know about Sync Master and that they are not the same. I picked up a fp1704 Dell I think and it was able to RGsB....with ps2

But then shortly after that, I grabbed me that extron300 interface and now it should not matter anymore on the monitor but having an extra sync on green monitor for 6 bucks can't be too bad of a thing either way lol
Its not really meant for gaming, just testing home brew and any game hacks I want to see if they work before moving to the man cave from my work station in my bedroom lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Kd30xs955.....can this be fixed in service menu?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:33 am 



Joined: 27 Sep 2018
Posts: 67
reldvs1 wrote:
That is funny you should say that about xbr....I just read that myself. I only found one model that had it in the US so far. But if it was on one model, maybe there was another xbr....I found a VERY old xbr, looks right from pics to be possible but the drive. ....and he said it's too big to get behind. So unless I find something that makes me think it is a more compelling reason to go investigate. I'll probably wait. I'll study those pics he sent closely though lol. .....how cool would that be, RGB scart factory on a USA tv!

Yep, the Sony KV-25XBR. We even had one in the family in-period, complete with the matching stand and speakers. :)

Want an easy way to spot one of the later 27"/32"/36" 4:3 XBR Sonys? Look for a Sony with the later-style Trinitron logo w/o the RGB dots, but has a second word after it that says XBR.

reldvs1 wrote:
Is it true on the curved Sony that the 20" model could have the same tube as BVM? Someone said that. I know it would not have bnc or component most likely but if you RGB mod it and it has same tube. ... maybe something to consider looking out for? I do know of one but unless these are more than just rumors and myth, she wants $25....

You're probably thinking of the Sony Profeel line, which was indeed a PVM in a different case and had RGB inputs. In some circles these were called the "Sony Cube" monitors.

Here's just some of the models in the Profeel line over the years:
http://www.thevintageknob.org/VIDEO/PRO ... OFEEL.html


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 Post subject: Re: Kd30xs955.....can this be fixed in service menu?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:42 am 


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Location: Québec City
reldvs1 wrote:
That is funny you should say that about xbr....I just read that myself. I only found one model that had it in the US so far. But if it was on one model, maybe there was another xbr....I found a VERY old xbr, looks right from pics to be possible but the drive. ....and he said it's too big to get behind. So unless I find something that makes me think it is a more compelling reason to go investigate. I'll probably wait. I'll study those pics he sent closely though lol. .....how cool would that be, RGB scart factory on a USA tv!

The KV-20XBR and KV-25XBR are AMAZING :mrgreen: if you can find one not too far away, you GOT to get it. You'll thank me later :wink: That's the model with native RGB input

THere are a couple other XBR curved models, but they don't have RGB. Some of them do have S-video though. And same tubes and same circuit improvements as the KV-25XBR. Probably good sets. I'll try to find the brochure when I come back from work

One S_video et I'm also on the lookout for is the KV-XXTS30. Again, same tube and circuit improvments as the KV-25XBR. There are a couple near me, so I assume they aren't rare


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 Post subject: Re: Kd30xs955.....can this be fixed in service menu?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:02 pm 



Joined: 27 Sep 2018
Posts: 67
Speaking of the Sony Profeel line, the Sony PVM-2950Q and PVM-3230 (plus others in the Profeel line) are probably what most newbies think of when they're getting into "PVMs" and it's arguably what most of them should probably have; they just don't know it. It's 15khz-only, but it has a native 9300k color profile (the correct color temp for older things like the NES and arcade games), built-in audio functionality (pick up the correct OEM add-on speakers via Ebay if needed) and even supports HV sync for running directly off a PC GPU (think Custom Resolution Utility and Groovymame's CRT driver). Too bad most of them spent their lives in production houses running Avid for eleventy billion hours, so good luck finding one with a good tube. Then again, I'd bet money on basically any curved Trinitron tube of roughly the same era being a drop-in replacement, if not identical, so there's that. Pretty sure that the Profeel, EXR, and XBR tubes are indeed identical to the PVMs of the same model year and make good parts candidates (along with making good RGB mod candidates).

Just remember that 27" viewable American size, actual glass being 29" and the size the rest of the world would call it, which is where the model number comes from.

I'm also of the opinion that if you need 480p+ you're best off with a new current model year 4K LG OLED w/ OSSC, but I know some would strongly disagree around here. Even 240p on this setup looks damn good if you do 240p->720p line3x (this yields a 9x 240p integer scale into 2160p). Depending on your exact needs, you may even want to let the TV handle 480i/1080i. The TV's built-in scaler is designed to be more CRT-like, so keep that in mind if you're expecting the last word in razor-sharp emulator-like pixels from low-res sources.

Some more info:
https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/wiki/speclist
https://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/CRT_designation_systems
https://www.theblock.art/#inventory

I still say keep an eye out for pro monitors from Iiyama, Eizo, NEC, ikegami, JVC, Panasonic, Mitsubishi, Nanao, Princeton, SGI, Dell, Barco. Anything with BNC inputs, really.


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 Post subject: Re: Kd30xs955.....can this be fixed in service menu?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:21 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 128
If the monitor is for vintage 240p / 480i gaming, you want to avoid pc crt monitors. They give you a blocky non-authentic image that is not much different to a flatscreen. I.e. You need shaders to make games look good so it defeats the purpose.


Opinions will vary but imo, this is the pecking order for vintage gaming displays (from best to worst).

1. Cga capable arcade monitor
2. SD crt with component or RGB input
3. Pro grade SD monitor (like a PVM, XM29, BVM etc) with RGB input
4. Tv on monitor with SVideo
5. VGA arcade monitor
6. HD CRT tv
7. The Pioneer 4:3 480p plasma
8. HD CRT pc monitor
9. Any sort of 4:3 HD flatscreen.
10. Any sort of HD 16:9 monitor (a true abomination for 240p gaming)


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 Post subject: Re: Kd30xs955.....can this be fixed in service menu?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:42 pm 


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PVM-2950 looks awesome inddeed, but good luck finding one. been trying to find one for a good while now but that still hasn't happened. emailed several broadcast companies, etc. A studio around here crushed my heart by saying "we have some" and then by replying and saying "finally, looks like we recycled them" :cry: They are very hard to find at a decent price right now

I like the fact that they don't have a too high tv line count, that's more up my alley. From the videos I've seen, their picture looks very pretty. softer blanked lines than the 800TVL monster PVMs and BVMs. very lovely

Having said that, a good consumer set with RGB/component gives a killer picture for old videogames. My KV-25XBR honestly has color and contrast that's as accurate as the PVM-2030's I had. And almost as accurate as that of the PVM-1354Q I had. by just a hair
It also has selectable D65 or D93 color temperatures, as well as OEM external speakers attached.


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 Post subject: Re: Kd30xs955.....can this be fixed in service menu?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:30 am 



Joined: 27 Sep 2018
Posts: 67
Classicgamer wrote:
Opinions will vary but imo, this is the pecking order for vintage gaming displays (from best to worst).

1. Cga capable arcade monitor
2. SD crt with component or RGB input

Which is kind of funny considering that most arcade monitors used consumer-grade tubes in them. The sought after Nanao MS-293x series, for instance, appears to use the exact same Toshiba glass that Toshiba put in their 27"/29" consumer flat CRTs.

Here's some fun examples of putting a Nanao MS9 multi-sync arcade board on random consumer TVs:
http://www.albyhus2.se/_eget/monitors/N ... CRT_nokia/

Classicgamer wrote:
10. Any sort of HD 16:9 monitor (a true abomination for 240p gaming)

The latest 4K HDR displays with things like 4:4:4 color handling are finally getting there with the help of the OSSC and it's new scanline modes.

Somebody beat me to making a good started effort post on the matter:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=58086


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 Post subject: Re: Kd30xs955.....can this be fixed in service menu?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:45 pm 


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energizerfellow‌ wrote:
Here's some fun examples of putting a Nanao MS9 multi-sync arcade board on random consumer TVs:
http://www.albyhus2.se/_eget/monitors/N ... CRT_nokia/


That's badass. I figured there's no physical reason your typical tube can't support 24kHz and 31kHz


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 Post subject: Re: Kd30xs955.....can this be fixed in service menu?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:49 pm 


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Oh and something I've thought about for Sony HD CRT TV's, is that if you could get an OSSC to center 480p inside of 540p, then use the service menu to stretch the raster, you could get a pretty authentic looking 480p (and 240p if you add scanlines), and with zero lag.

The question is, whether the OSSC could do something like that. Seems like it would need at least a partial frame buffer to windowbox a smaller resolution inside of a larger resolution.


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 Post subject: Re: Kd30xs955.....can this be fixed in service menu?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:25 pm 



Joined: 24 Sep 2018
Posts: 59
Hey everyone I'm back from a very good week of crt scavenging. ...
Picked up 27f476 jvc iart....I did have to pay $15 but it came with stand and he helped load.

Next picked up Toshiba 27a62 free

And Sony kv27fs100l.....free

I've got a line out for what I think is 27fv300....$10
She just is never available but I think patience will pay off. I know she still has it, just finding a time to meet up.....
And there's one more 27" Jvc I'art....not sure model but it's not curved on bottom like my other one is.

I can still get the 27" Toshiba 27af45....but he wants $20 so I'm going to wait. He seems pretty willing to hold it for me for now.
And finally I got a guy willing to bring me a 32fs100 in excellent condition. But I don't know if going to a 32" is something I want to do.
They say larger than 27" you start getting into issues with geometry and convergence.
What would you gentlemen do?
Well....
Just thought I'd share my new crt finds with you.

Thanks! :-)

Ps....currently owning 10 crt TVs....yes I know I'm crazy lol


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 Post subject: Re: Kd30xs955.....can this be fixed in service menu?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:21 am 



Joined: 24 Sep 2018
Posts: 59
energizerfellow‌ wrote:
Classicgamer wrote:
Opinions will vary but imo, this is the pecking order for vintage gaming displays (from best to worst).

1. Cga capable arcade monitor
2. SD crt with component or RGB input

Which is kind of funny considering that most arcade monitors used consumer-grade tubes in them. The sought after Nanao MS-293x series, for instance, appears to use the exact same Toshiba glass that Toshiba put in their 27"/29" consumer flat CRTs.

Here's some fun examples of putting a Nanao MS9 multi-sync arcade board on random consumer TVs:
http://www.albyhus2.se/_eget/monitors/N ... CRT_nokia/

Classicgamer wrote:
10. Any sort of HD 16:9 monitor (a true abomination for 240p gaming)

The latest 4K HDR displays with things like 4:4:4 color handling are finally getting there with the help of the OSSC and it's new scanline modes.

Somebody beat me to making a good started effort post on the matter:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=58086

WOW! ....thanks for the link to your testing of various crt TV tubes.....
Very fascinating!
Thanks for taking the time to share your findings. If I ever progress to this stage in SD crt. ...I will definitely be coming back to look at your page again. Might even want to ask you a few questions too.
If that's OK. Eventually. ...
As I mentioned, I have a few Toshiba 27" crt tv...both flat and curved, as well as a couple 20" crt from Sanyo....perhaps one will be a good candidate for this type of experimenting. But that's a ways off still. Need to get my game room done first. Then my crt testing and tweeking area in garage will be next lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Kd30xs955.....can this be fixed in service menu?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:19 am 


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I had a bit of geometry trouble on a 27fs120 - smaller than 32" already. I wasn't able to keep that set, but I did scavenge some magnets from the back - these might go a ways towards fixing any geometry trouble.


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 Post subject: Re: Kd30xs955.....can this be fixed in service menu?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:43 am 



Joined: 24 Sep 2018
Posts: 59
Ed Oscuro wrote:
I had a bit of geometry trouble on a 27fs120 - smaller than 32" already. I wasn't able to keep that set, but I did scavenge some magnets from the back - these might go a ways towards fixing any geometry trouble.

Yes, you bring up a good point, and kinda what was in the back of my mind too. Parts to fix crt...or a spare set to rgb mod....
Might as well think ahead. These are definitely gonna break down. They are fairly dated.

Oh, I also seen a free Mitsubishi ws65833 I think it was. I read up on the baulbs...and the dlp chip problem, which this has. But the baulbs fairly new. Chip went out after he forked out the money on baulbs.
I remember you telling me some mitz are good. I figured not these but found an article on ign about how great these projection TVs,of all things, were good for gaming. With vibrant colors and such. Even though it was huge. And projection!...surely the convergence or lag would make it not work. I'm talking 6th Gen and newer.
It is Diamond series....do you have an opinion on them?
It has the white and black dots I've heard is the chip, but my buddy might have one, hopefully compatible in parts. His had baulbs go after he had new chip put in. Now it just sits. The other one is free...
Maybe I can Frankenstein me a working Mitsubishi Diamond series, if it's worth doing that is. ...
I hold little regard for things I read on ign lol
Figured I'd learn more asking here.

Ps....If i get this it would be for playing 360 and oxbox, eventually ps3 maybe.... MIGHT like to try Wii shooting games. ...all systems modded...
Down the road maybe a ps4 and Xbox1....but it's not as high a priority as the older systems. By the time I can get these, tech will be different probably lol


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 Post subject: Re: Kd30xs955.....can this be fixed in service menu?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:02 am 


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My folks used to have a 50" Mitsu rear-projection TV, built in 1997 - it never had a problem, was eventually scrapped as obsolete after over a decade in use ;_;

Reading up on those DLP sets it doesn't sound like the kind of thing I would spend a lot of money on. You're talking about the WD-65833, yeah? I think the DLP TVs are fixed-resolution. Seems like a lot of upkeep for something not as reliable as flat panels.


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