Is there a better device than OSSC for 480p output?

[MidOrFeed2015]

for 480p OSSC is not bad, but it's not perfect either

[BuckoA51]

For 480p output? You mean converting 240p to 480p? No I don't think there's anything better (admittedly I'm biased but still).

Maybe you can explain exactly what use case you had in mind. If you mean for converting 480i to 480p then that's a whole different story.

[MidOrFeed2015]

For 480p output? You mean converting 240p to 480p? No I don't think there's anything better (admittedly I'm biased but still).

Maybe you can explain exactly what use case you had in mind. If you mean for converting 480i to 480p then that's a whole different story.

no not for 240p to 480p I guess I was unclear.

I mean that the ossc can increase the IQ of 480p games (such as xbox, GC, DC, etc) by doing line2x. is this currently the best method? or is there another device that can do much better?

[nmalinoski]

For 480p output? You mean converting 240p to 480p? No I don't think there's anything better (admittedly I'm biased but still).

Maybe you can explain exactly what use case you had in mind. If you mean for converting 480i to 480p then that's a whole different story.

no not for 240p to 480p I guess I was unclear.

I mean that the ossc can increase the IQ of 480p games (such as xbox, GC, DC, etc) by doing line2x. is this currently the best method? or is there another device that can do much better?

I would say the OSSC is currently the best for handling 480p; however, you absolutely need a display (and/or capture card, if that's your thing) that can handle its output, otherwise you'll need to track down an external HDMI scaler that can scale and normalize the OSSC's output to 720p/1080p/4K or whatever your display likes.

Unfortunately, the OSSC is still flawed in the context of the PS2, as it currently can't automatically sense or react to the mode change from 15kHz RGBS to 31kHz+ RGsB.

Also, because it's a line-doubler, not a scaler, it doesn't have the ability to survive mode changes; meaning any video mode change, such as in any game that uses 480i for menus and 240p for gameplay, will result in signal loss that requires HDMI devices to resync, which can take anywhere from half a second to upwards of several seconds. There are also other oddballs, like 007: Agent Under Fire on the Xbox that switches to 480i for shooting stages and to 480p for driving stages, and Gran Turismo 4 on the PS2 that switches from 480p/1080i in gameplay to 480i for menus and movies.

[energizerfellow‌]

I mean that the ossc can increase the IQ of 480p games (such as xbox, GC, DC, etc) by doing line2x. is this currently the best method? or is there another device that can do much better?

The best method for handing a 480p signal on a modern display is arguably to let the display do all the work. The scalers built-in to modern TVs really are fantastic. The only real exception I can think of are older 1080i-native HD CRTs, but that's really a special corner case. At this point the OSSC is basically a "dumb" ADC converter between the 480p YPbPr analog input and digital HDMI output.

Unfortunately, the OSSC is still flawed in the context of the PS2, as it currently can't automatically sense or react to the mode change from 15kHz RGBS to 31kHz+ RGsB.

With the side question of why would you want to? There's no reason to run RGBs out of a PS2 when YPbPr is just as good with a high-quality cable like the OEM Sony PS2/PS3 cable, HD Retrovision PS2/PS3 cable, or Monster cable.

[orange808]

I can't agree

The scalers built into many modern panels are trash. 480p handling is often blurry and nasty. I also keep hearing about displays that advertise "4:4:4" output modes, but they use "4:2:2" internal sampling for scaling.

Also, "blocky" is the enemy with video sources, so most manufacturers will add some heavy filtering to smooth out 480p. Consumer devices are often made for user friendliness, so there aren't any robust options to diaable image filtering.

I wouldn't trust any display to automatically give you great 480p scaling. Some do, most won't.

[headlesshobbs]

I've been mulling on this topic for about a year, so I'd like to comment on something.

On Fudoh's site (Hazard City), he lists the PMS Cystalio II, Lumagen Vision HDQ, Optoma Themescene HD3000 and XPC-4 (in that order) as the best processors for 480p content, while OSSC took 5th for transcoding. This was back in 2016 and we've had a good two years of firmware updates to allow options that sharpen and even set tv types (SD, ED, HDTV I-II), plus a small number of fixes and upgrades that really help out. We also need to take into account linedoubled 480p with upsampleX2 is even more stunning and nearly process-free on most HDTV's, so it may be the new leader on 480p content post 2018.

You know what? I really do want to see a PMS Crystalio II vs OSSC shootout right about now and see if that list is obsolete! I wouldn't be surprised if it takes the crown for 240p content as well since most of what was written at the time can be openly contested.

Now onto the direct response.

I can't agree

The scalers built into many modern panels are trash. 480p handling is often blurry and nasty. I also keep hearing about displays that advertise "4:4:4" output modes, but they use "4:2:2" internal sampling for scaling.

That is true. Many tv manufactures still don't believe in the 4:4:4 color space and crap out a condensed image to suit their standards. Most TV's should have a PC label for their input, so you need to select that if you want any chance of getting the most out of your video. Keep in mind all other image processing is shut off, so you won't have anything to sharpen the picture for your at lower resolutions, just more blur. Read my next solution.

Also, "blocky" is the enemy with video sources, so most manufacturers will add some heavy filtering to smooth out 480p. Consumer devices are often made for user friendliness, so there aren't any robust options to diaable image filtering.

I wouldn't trust any display to automatically give you great 480p scaling. Some do, most won't.

Then don't do 480p, try 960p instead!

I play SoulCalibur (Dreamcast) this way on my set and it actually beats the pants off the computer crt that's sitting right next to it. This is actually the best way to combat the display from having to apply any sort of filtering as most of the image is closer to matching the panel's own native rest. 960 vs 1080 and there just isn't much room to have filtering applied in the first place, so you're going to get the sharpest picture then trying in other resolutions.

[Xer Xian]

@MidOrFeed2015: do you already have an OSSC and a TV that's compatible with Line2x480p? If yes, buying a dedicated processor for 480p is not going to be worth it. You might try the upsampled2x feature or adding scanlines, or play with the smoothing feature if your TV has one, and see if you like it better than plain Line2x.

Otherwise, if you think your TV does a bad job at 480p upscaling, Corio2 scalers are excellent at that, and have a built-in smoothing option, BUT they add 2 frames of lag and are have an obnoxious user interface. Another good option would be the Extron 301 HD, which has one less frame of lag and is easier to use.

@headlesshobbs: Fudoh will hopefully give you a more qualified answer, but my feeling is that while the CII is a great video processor, it's more of a collection piece now due to its rarity and today's readily available alternatives. Unless you need a top of the line comb filter for composite sources.

[Fudoh]

It totally depends on which look you want to achieve. The OSSC's ability to double 480p to 960p is unique, but it's hardly everybody's taste. It gives you an unsual blocky rendition of your 480p sources.

Shortly after that 960p option was added on the OSSC, the option to sample the input with 1440px horizontally was added (instead of sampling with 720px and doubling it after that). This gives you a smoother (for me: more pleasing) image, but it retains the blocky look on the vertical axis.

What "great" 480p processors do different is that they apply a different scaling algorithm which gives the impression of a more detailed look. On the horizontal this looks very close to what the OSSC does with its doubled sampling rate and they basically add the same look to the vertical axis.

Since 960p isn't displayed natively on any TV I know, you also have to factor in how good (or bad) the display handles the scaling. I would say in most cases (when the display is capable of displaying 960p from the OSSC), using the OSSC (with upsample2x enabled) is a good choice. If that's to blocky for you (AND (!) your display sucks at upscaling 480p on its own - e.g. the LGs are terrible at this), you can get a scaler. As Xer Xian pointed out, the Extron DSC 301 is great. Depending on your sources, the RGB-DVI 300 (no audio) or the RGB-HDMI 300 (with audio) are fine as well. These all have a 4:4:4 processing path and equal the CII in scaling quality (although they lack many of it's other features).

[BuckoA51]

Do we know what the lag is on the Extron DSC 301?

I pretty much agree with everything Fudoh said. I really like the look of OSSC Line 2x (upsample2x enabled) and a DVDO, these tend to have quite soft scaling by modern standards anyway so it takes some of the edge off the blockiness.

Also, because it's a line-doubler, not a scaler, it doesn't have the ability to survive mode changes;

It handles them better than most scalers to be fair. The only way to really do this is to unlock the input/output frame rate entirely which causes other problems (stutter etc).

[headlesshobbs]

It totally depends on which look you want to achieve. The OSSC's ability to double 480p to 960p is unique, but it's hardly everybody's taste. It gives you an unsual blocky rendition of your 480p sources.

Finding the definition of what's sharp vs more crt-like is always going to be an issue of interest on 480p. My monitor is currently in the process of dimming out, so I won't be able to help with any sort of analysis when it comes to different systems and displays in this area. 960p does get to be a little too hard on the eyes when sitting close, yet if your scanlines don't produce moir patterns then 480px2 can be preserved perfectly as most computer users would have originally experienced playing games this way.

LG sets can mostly get the job done if you know what you're doing, but as you said they can be a bit of a pain in the *** to deal with. I have to go back and fourth on the settings so many times depending on the system/resolution going into it.

[nmalinoski]

Unfortunately, the OSSC is still flawed in the context of the PS2, as it currently can't automatically sense or react to the mode change from 15kHz RGBS to 31kHz+ RGsB.

With the side question of why would you want to? There's no reason to run RGBs out of a PS2 when YPbPr is just as good with a high-quality cable like the OEM Sony PS2/PS3 cable, HD Retrovision PS2/PS3 cable, or Monster cable.

An excellent point; with a quality YPbPr cable, you're not going to be able to tell the difference between YPbPr and RGB output. Unfortunately, there are a number of people who have standardized on RGB SCART for their retro setups, and adding YPbPr component to those setups may be impractical, so it's always good to have options.

[orange808]

You also have the option of feeding 480p line doubled to SXGA into a DVDO.

That's low lag and decent looking.

[Konsolkongen]

For what it's worth I absolutely LOVE 480p linedoubled to 960p on the OSSC. I want my eyeballs to bleed!

[energizerfellow‌]

I can't agree

The scalers built into many modern panels are trash. 480p handling is often blurry and nasty. I also keep hearing about displays that advertise "4:4:4" output modes, but they use "4:2:2" internal sampling for scaling.

Depends on what you define as "modern" for 4:4:4 color handling. Expensive pro equipment like Extron or Lumagen only recently started having 4:4:4 scalers and things like the Framemeister are still 4:2:2. Even with A/V receivers, Denon/Marantz started supporting 4:4:4 for the 2017 model year (and even then, requires manually enabling "enhanced" mode), Yamaha was 2015, etc. As for the TVs themselves, a good rule of thumb I've noticed is that if the TV has native HDR support, the HDMI ports will support 4:4:4 4K/60p and the internal scaler will be 4:4:4 with much better scaling algorithms on 480i/480p than old-school 1080p TVs or early 4K Tvs. Modern 2160p "4K" TVs also let you integer scale 240p, 720p, and 1080i/1080p, along with having much lower input latencies that old HD TVs could only dream of, never mind the color performance of current panels.

Finding the definition of what's sharp vs more crt-like is always going to be an issue of interest on 480p.

Pretty much, yep.

[Fudoh]

Depends on what you define as "modern" for 4:4:4 color handling. Expensive pro equipment like Extron or Lumagen only recently started having 4:4:4 scalers

since when does Lumagen have a processor with 4:4:4 processing ?

True for Extron and almost funny to see how they ride the "4:4:4" train on their website considering how many of their older design had only been 4:2:2.

and things like the Framemeister are still 4:2:2

yes, but the FM has a 4:4:4 FPGA stage up front, so it's kind similar like feeding an OSSC (with 444) into a DVDO (with 422).

[djc5166]

Unfortunately, the OSSC is still flawed in the context of the PS2, as it currently can't automatically sense or react to the mode change from 15kHz RGBS to 31kHz+ RGsB.

With the side question of why would you want to? There's no reason to run RGBs out of a PS2 when YPbPr is just as good with a high-quality cable like the OEM Sony PS2/PS3 cable, HD Retrovision PS2/PS3 cable, or Monster cable.

An excellent point; with a quality YPbPr cable, you're not going to be able to tell the difference between YPbPr and RGB output. Unfortunately, there are a number of people who have standardized on RGB SCART for their retro setups, and adding YPbPr component to those setups may be impractical, so it's always good to have options.

I think the myth is that YPbPr output of ps2 is not as good as RGB, but they look the same to me with good cables.

People have their RGB setups already, and it's another thing to add to transcode to RGB or handle YPbPr. I know I like all of my consoles running through my gscartsw.

Disabling the sog sounds pretty easy depending on your PS2 model, and it sounds like the new gscartsw revision will take care of sog for you anyways. So there's two more options.

[nmalinoski]

With the side question of why would you want to? There's no reason to run RGBs out of a PS2 when YPbPr is just as good with a high-quality cable like the OEM Sony PS2/PS3 cable, HD Retrovision PS2/PS3 cable, or Monster cable.

An excellent point; with a quality YPbPr cable, you're not going to be able to tell the difference between YPbPr and RGB output. Unfortunately, there are a number of people who have standardized on RGB SCART for their retro setups, and adding YPbPr component to those setups may be impractical, so it's always good to have options.

I think the myth is that YPbPr output of ps2 is not as good as RGB, but they look the same to me with good cables.

People have their RGB setups already, and it's another thing to add to transcode to RGB or handle YPbPr. I know I like all of my consoles running through my gscartsw.

Disabling the sog sounds pretty easy depending on your PS2 model, and it sounds like the new gscartsw revision will take care of sog for you anyways. So there's two more options.

My understanding is that it is indeed a myth that its YPbPr output is poorer than RGB, and I've never noticed any visual problems with my SCPH-39001 paired with my first-party PS2 component cable.

The problem with disabling SoG is that it requires a hard mod, and I can imagine many people aren't going to want to open up their beloved consoles or mod them themselves, and I can imagine another set of people aren't going to want to pay ~$250 USD for a new gscartsw solely for its ability to convert RGsB to RGBS.

There are plenty of affordable and available RGB to YPbPr transcoders (most of which are unfortunately limited to 480i or 480p), even one that can fit into a SCART head; but there are still very few YPbPr to RGB transcoders, and it's not clear to me that that simple RGB->YPbPr circuit can be reversed (probably, but hasn't yet been done as far as I know).

For those that want everything exclusively RGB SCART and absolutely need 480p/720p/1080i support, it seems like the cheapest solution for that right now, in lieu of an inline RGsB->RGBS converter, is a custom DE-15 cable like what Retro-Access is now selling (~$50 USD shipped to USA; probably want one that has RCA sockets for audio) or a SCART to DE-15 adapter, an Extron RGB interface (201/202/203 rxi) (probably ~$50 USD or less, shipped, from eBay), and a BNC to SCART cable (~$30 USD with cheapest shipping from Retro Gaming Cables).

Of course, if you're fine playing your PS2 games in 240p/288p/480i/576i, then you can just use a simple RGB SCART cable and be done with it.

Personally, I'm hoping for an UltraHDMI-like internal HDMI mod for the PS1 and PS2. I have an UltraHDMI fitted to my N64, and I really like having that built-in scaler that both seamlessly handles 240p<->480i mode changes (Something a PS1/PS2 solution absolutely needs) and normalizes the output for compatibility with most TVs, so I can just take it to a friend's house and not have to worry about bringing any other equipment that I'd otherwise need to make it just work. Oh, it'll probably also be a $150 or more mod, but it'll be so worth it to someone like me who wants to move forward with modern displays and/or has yet to really embrace SCART.

[energizerfellow‌]

People have their RGB setups already, and it's another thing to add to transcode to RGB or handle YPbPr. I know I like all of my consoles running through my gscartsw.

Disabling the sog sounds pretty easy depending on your PS2 model, and it sounds like the new gscartsw revision will take care of sog for you anyways. So there's two more options.

If you got just one YPbPr source, you can always just plug the PS2 directly into the OSSC's/TV's/receiver's component input and call it good. If you do have 2+ devices with YPbPr, you might as well get a gcompsw or Shinybow SB-5460/SB-5470 as the PS2 and Dreamcast are the only consoles putting out high-res analog over anything other than YPbPr (and you arguably should be using YPbPr on the PS2 anyways).

Most of the people with issues here appear to be single-input PVMs/BVMs and PAL land with CRTs that need a YPbPr->RGBs over SCART converter (not needed on European HD TVs/receivers as they natively support YPbPr over SCART?). Even if you are on a single-input display, the new gswartsw will take care of the PS2's SoG output.

[nmalinoski]

If you got just one YPbPr source, you can always just plug the PS2 directly into the OSSC's/TV's/receiver's component input and call it good. If you do have 2+ devices with YPbPr, you might as well get a gcompsw or Shinybow SB-5460/SB-5470 as the PS2 and Dreamcast are the only consoles putting out high-res analog over anything other than YPbPr (and you arguably should be using YPbPr on the PS2 anyways).

Do be mindful of 240p/480i support over HDMI when recommending connecting a PS2 directly to a receiver. My Onkyo receiver, somewhat luckily, seems to simply digitize the analogue signals and leave the resolution and refresh rate alone; however, my Samsung LCD from a decade ago doesn't support 240p over HDMI (I'm not sure about 480i, but I'm sure there are displays that won't support 480i over HDMI); so that won't work for everyone.

Luckily for me, my display will properly accept 240p over YPbPr component; however, this support isn't universal, and component inputs on new displays are becoming increasingly rare. Unless you can afford to go the professional monitor route, lot of new TVs are HDMI-only, and you might get a composite video input if the designer was feeling particularly lucky.

That said, if you don't want to mod your consoles and can accommodate YPbPr, I definitely recommend using it, along with a quality first-party or HD Retrovision cable, over RGB for the PS2; it just simply works.

Most of the people with issues here appear to be single-input PVMs/BVMs and PAL land with CRTs that need a YPbPr->RGBs over SCART converter (not needed on European HD TVs/receivers as they natively support YPbPr over SCART?). Even if you are on a single-input display, the new gswartsw will take care of the PS2's SoG output.

The gscartsw 5 series is an expensive though nicely-integrated solution to the RGsB problem. If you're already in deep with SCART, and maybe already have a gscartsw, then the new model will help you nicely integrate your PS2 into your RGB setup; however, for someone like me, who hasn't really bought into SCART, it's an expensive, overkill fix for something that should be correctable with a $50-or-less adapter that fits inline with the video cable.

If that simple RGBS->YPbPr circuit can be reversed into a simple YPbPr->RGBS circuit, I think it'd be feasible to build a SCART cable that packs all of that circuity into a SCART head (just like what Mike Chi has done with the simple RGBS->YPbPr transcoder), and I think something like that would be more affordable and more useful to people trying to integrate these systems into their RGB SCART setups than a $250 boutique SCART switch.

Might also be a market for an inline transcoder that fits between the AV port and the AV cable that would convert any RGsB output to RGBS.

[BuckoA51]

I really like having that built-in scaler that both seamlessly handles 240p<->480i mode changes (Something a PS1/PS2 solution absolutely needs)

Again, there's no way to "seamlessly handle 240p<->480i mode changes" because of the change in refresh rate.

[nmalinoski]

I really like having that built-in scaler that both seamlessly handles 240p<->480i mode changes (Something a PS1/PS2 solution absolutely needs)

Again, there's no way to "seamlessly handle 240p<->480i mode changes" because of the change in refresh rate.

Of course there is; you scale everything to a specific resolution regardless of input, like a presentation switcher. This is what the UltraHDMI does by default, as far as I can tell; it absolutely does not drop sync when transitioning between 240p gameplay and 480i menus, although I imagine it would if I had it in Direct Mode. I believe it comes at the cost of one frame of lag, but I'm not perceiving any lag in my setup.

I would hope that an HDMI solution for the PS2 would work the same way, even with the wider range of supported resolutions; just set your output resolution to 480p, 576p, 720p, or 1080p, and let everything get scaled to that; and I say everything, because there are 480p+ games that unfortunately end up switching back to 480i for things like menus (GT4) or prerendered cutscenes (Megaman X8).

[Fudoh]

This is what the UltraHDMI does by default, as far as I can tell; it absolutely does not drop sync when transitioning between 240p gameplay and 480i menus

maybe I should try this one day. What's a N64 game using both resolutions ?

The theory is that it can't be done without converting frame rates. If you have two target frame rates, one from the 240p content and another from the 480i content, you have to decide for one to make everything seamless. And the lag of frame caused by the buffer isn't the problem here, it's the actual framerate conversion which would cause either tearing of a framedrop/duplication every once in a while.

[Gunstar]

Resident Evil 2 switches res between scenes if you have an expansion/ram pack in the machine iirc.

I think if you remove the ram pack it'll stick to 240p though.

[nmalinoski]

This is what the UltraHDMI does by default, as far as I can tell; it absolutely does not drop sync when transitioning between 240p gameplay and 480i menus

maybe I should try this one day. What's a N64 game using both resolutions ?

The theory is that it can't be done without converting frame rates. If you have two target frame rates, one from the 240p content and another from the 480i content, you have to decide for one to make everything seamless. And the lag of frame caused by the buffer isn't the problem here, it's the actual framerate conversion which would cause either tearing of a framedrop/duplication every once in a while.

I see it with Top Gear Rally. If you want to verify that the resolutions are switching, enable Options > Show Video Modes on the UltraHDMI; that will briefly throw up the line count, refresh rate, and whether it's interlaced or progressive.

I'm pretty sure that you're right--that it can't be done without converting framerates. Normalizing the output like that is not inherently a bad thing, though; if the refresh rate of your console is off ever so slightly, bringing it to a solid 50/60Hz will make it work with your modern display, which is the entire point of getting an HDMI mod in the first place; plus, like I said, it enables seamless transitions.

I also haven't noticed any jitter or hiccups from framerate conversion, but that might just be me or the games I've been playing (Super Mario 64, Top Gear Rally, Mario Party 1/2/3, Mischief Makers, Wave Race 64). If it is noticeable and bothersome to you, there is always Direct Mode.

[NoAffinity]

maybe I should try this one day. What's a N64 game using both resolutions ?

here's a quick list scrounged together from the interwebs. The last 3 may not truly offer 480i, but the expansion pack supported 480i games all came from this wiki, however reliable that may be:

http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Nintendo ... ansion_Pak

Resident Evil 2 w/ expansion pack
Shadow Man w/ expansion pack
Star Wars: Episode 1 Racer w/ expansion pack
Vigilante 8 and Vigilante 8: 2nd Offense w/ expansion pack (hidden 480i mode?)
Excitebike 64 w/ expansion pack
FIFA 99 w/ expansion pack
Hybrid Heaven w/ expansion pack
Pokémon Stadium 2 w/ expansion pack
Indiana Jones
Jet Force Gemin (possibly?)
Crusi'n Exotica

[BuckoA51]

My N64s in storage at the moment but I'm pretty sure RE2 causes a resync on my setup using the UltraHDMI.

A lot depends on your TV too, I've actually seen a Panasonic plasma that can run Resident Evil 2 on an N64 with a RetroTINK without blanking out the screen every few minutes.

[nmalinoski]

My N64s in storage at the moment but I'm pretty sure RE2 causes a resync on my setup using the UltraHDMI.

A lot depends on your TV too, I've actually seen a Panasonic plasma that can run Resident Evil 2 on an N64 with a RetroTINK without blanking out the screen every few minutes.

Which version of RE2? (NTSC/PAL? Revision?) I can check when I get home.


Edit: I checked both the North American (NTSC) and European (PAL) versions, and I got no dropouts; solid 720p the entire time, with video modes changing between 240p/480i@60Hz and 288p/576i@50Hz. Frankly, I was surprised that I could play PAL content at all on my setup.

For reference, I've got my UltraHDMI N64 set to output 720p at 60Hz, and that is connected to my Onkyo TX-NR555, which outputs to a Samsung LN32B360-somethingorother.

If/when you dig your UltraHDMI N64 (One of them?), you may want to double-check that Direct Mode is set to Off.

[Classicgamer]

It totally depends on which look you want to achieve. The OSSC's ability to double 480p to 960p is unique, but it's hardly everybody's taste. It gives you an unsual blocky rendition of your 480p sources.

Shortly after that 960p option was added on the OSSC, the option to sample the input with 1440px horizontally was added (instead of sampling with 720px and doubling it after that). This gives you a smoother (for me: more pleasing) image, but it retains the blocky look on the vertical axis.

What "great" 480p processors do different is that they apply a different scaling algorithm which gives the impression of a more detailed look. On the horizontal this looks very close to what the OSSC does with its doubled sampling rate and they basically add the same look to the vertical axis.

Since 960p isn't displayed natively on any TV I know, you also have to factor in how good (or bad) the display handles the scaling. I would say in most cases (when the display is capable of displaying 960p from the OSSC), using the OSSC (with upsample2x enabled) is a good choice. If that's to blocky for you (AND (!) your display sucks at upscaling 480p on its own - e.g. the LGs are terrible at this), you can get a scaler. As Xer Xian pointed out, the Extron DSC 301 is great. Depending on your sources, the RGB-DVI 300 (no audio) or the RGB-HDMI 300 (with audio) are fine as well. These all have a 4:4:4 processing path and equal the CII in scaling quality (although they lack many of it's other features).

That's interesting on the 960p thing. I always assumed that the point of using 960p instead of scaling to the native panel res was that it was a multiple of 240p or 480p (and therefore easy to scale) and, that it would be displayed on a 1080p panel with no further scaling (with thin black bars added at the top and bottom).

It seems like allowing the monitor to handle the last mile (960p - 1080p) would make the scaler pointless. The point of using an expensive external scaler is specifically to avoid the blocky poorly scaled image created by almost every flat-screen monitor.

With that in mind, what is the reason why people use 960p instead of scaling to fit the native res?

[nmalinoski]

That's interesting on the 960p thing. I always assumed that the point of using 960p instead of scaling to the native panel res was that it was a multiple of 240p or 480p (and therefore easy to scale) and, that it would be displayed on a 1080p panel with no further scaling (with thin black bars added at the top and bottom).

It seems like allowing the monitor to handle the last mile (960p - 1080p) would make the scaler pointless. The point of using an expensive external scaler is specifically to avoid the blocky poorly scaled image created by almost every flat-screen monitor.

With that in mind, what is the reason why people use 960p instead of scaling to fit the native res?

I could be way off base here, but I thought that the point of feeding the display 960p versus 240p/480p is that the display's scaler has far less of the image to interpret than with lower resolutions, which means it takes less work to scale and has less of a chance to screw something up, resulting in an overall clearer image.