MiSTer FPGA board

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Austin
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by Austin »

fernan1234 wrote:Dang that sucks, but honestly I'd still see it as a bargain for all the value it can provide.
Basically, yeah. The price has increased a lot, but so has the MiSTer's capabilities since 2019/2020. For instance, now we have excellent PS1 and Sega CD cores, along with a bunch of arcade stuff that I think a lot of people didn't think would happen. The cost of entry has risen, but so has the value the device provides.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Thanks for all the feedback.

Is there a seller anyone can recommend?
SavagePencil
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by SavagePencil »

Wait, is it possible to do an additional RAM stick with the analog IO board? I thought those two were mutually independent and that the RAM board only worked if you did the Digital board. Maybe I misread something...
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Kez
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by Kez »

Yeah you need the digital board for dual RAM. However I don't think any core so far has actually needed it.
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evil_ash_xero
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by evil_ash_xero »

How about this seller? This was recommended by RetroRGB. https://misteraddons.com/collections/ki ... minum-case

This is a bit expensive (and the one I want is out of stock, atm), but it looks like it might cover everything.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by Steven »

If you only want to use it with HDMI, the only things that you actually need are the DE10-Nano, whatever RAM you need for the games you want, a micro SD to hold everything, and a keyboard or a controller.

Cooling is good because it can get pretty hot, and you'll need some sort of USB hub for multiplayer. I was using a little micro USB to USB-A converter for a while and it had compatibility problems, so I got a passively powered USB hub from some seller in I think Spain and that fixed everything. If you want analog output, get the I/O board. If you want JAMMA, use the MiSTercade.

I just have the RAM, the I/O board in case I ever decide to connect it to a CRT, a Noctua fan + heatsink, and a USB hub. Nothing else. No case, no clock, no wi-fi, no controller adaptors, or anything else because I'm a cheap bastard and wanted to spend as little as possible. I'll get the MiSTercade eventually.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by evil_ash_xero »

I'm primarily going to be using this on CRTs. I would like the option, but that's the primary use.
Looks as if you can only pick Digital or Analog, is that right?

EDIT: I ordered one from UltimateMiSTer. The only question I have is, unless it says Digital, it will be the analog one? I'm guessing so.
Last edited by evil_ash_xero on Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by Steven »

You will need the IO board with the analog thingy unless you have a DAC/downscaler or whatever because the DE10-Nano only comes with HDMI. I have never used mine on my CRT since I've been too lazy and cheap to go buy a cable for it, so I don't know much about using it on a CRT, but I've heard it's good that way and you won't have to worry about what to do with things with weird refresh rates.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by evil_ash_xero »

What sort of device will I need to hook this up to a CRT, via component?

A VGA to Component device?
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by Steven »

Uh... a component cable lol
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Steven wrote:Uh... a component cable lol
It has component out?
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by Steven »

It has a bunch of stuff: RGB, YPbPr, composite, I think maybe S-video, and probably some others, although that's pretty much everything. VGA -> VGA should probably work too. It can do pretty much anything, which is really great.
Last edited by Steven on Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Steven wrote:You will need the IO board with the analog thingy unless you have a DAC/downscaler or whatever because the DE10-Nano only comes with HDMI. I have never used mine on my CRT since I've been too lazy and cheap to go buy a cable for it, so I don't know much about using it on a CRT, but I've heard it's good that way and you won't have to worry about what to do with things with weird refresh rates.
The one I ordered has "Official I/O Board XL 6.1 with Fan", so I'm guessing this is what I was wanting?

Looking at the actual shell, it seems I'm going to need some kind of adapter.

Image

Probably VGA to component, I'm guessing.

EDIT: Yeah, the site has as VGA to Component device for sale. Seriously... do many TVs have VGA anymore?
I guess it takes up less space on the box...
Last edited by evil_ash_xero on Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:53 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by Steven »

As long as it's got the analog video out, that should be the correct one. I think you have to may have to go into the configuration menu to configure it for YPbPr output before you use it.

Oh yeah, you might need a separate audio cable, but it has a 3.5mm audio out on the IO board. At least, my IO board has that.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by fernan1234 »

Do note that YPbPr from the IO board can be kinda wonky in some cases (perhaps mainly with pro monitors, consumer CRTs may be more tolerant). You also have to flip the SOG switch on the IO board to use it. You may want to have an HDMI-to-component converter at hand just in case, it may turn out to work better than the IO board.

Also for audio definitely take advantage of the much better quality digital audio output options, either the optical audio from the IO board (which needs a 3.5mm connector/adapter) or audio from the HDMI output which is slightly better. Definitely avoid the IO's analogue audio output.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Well, I'll be getting this at some point, since it's been ordered. I'll be using a RetroBit Genesis controller (8 button). I know that some people have problems with these, but I use the 6 button one
on my PC, and it works well. And the 8 button seems to have super low latency. I might look into those Daemon adapters. Those seem cool.
In the meantime, this has PSX support, does it not? I've seen that they've added bilinear filtering to the polygons in some cores. Anyone tried that out? That would be nice, as even on a CRT, those
polys can look jagged as hell. I realize that some have a fondness for that look... I am not one of those people.

I asked earlier, but how is the overclocking on the SNES core? Do many games crash?
I use it in Snes9X, and usually have to put it at Medium to keep graphical errors or crashes from happening. It's an awesome feature, though.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by fernan1234 »

evil_ash_xero wrote:In the meantime, this has PSX support, does it not? I've seen that they've added bilinear filtering to the polygons in some cores. Anyone tried that out? That would be nice, as even on a CRT, those
Yes, the PSX core certainly has a lot of interesting features that can elevate it above real hardware even when using CRTs. At the same time, there are bugs on specific games being fixed almost weekly, which is a great sign of increasing accuracy, but also for me a suggestion to wait until the core matures more before considering it as a replacement for real hardware.

evil_ash_xero wrote:I asked earlier, but how is the overclocking on the SNES core? Do many games crash?
Now for the SNES this core is almost perfect. Development on it has apparently reached an impasse and hasn't been updated since last year, but it really is great as is. You'd be hard-pressed to ever distinguish it from real hardware. I don't feel the need to whip out my original console all the time now.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by evil_ash_xero »

fernan1234 wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:In the meantime, this has PSX support, does it not? I've seen that they've added bilinear filtering to the polygons in some cores. Anyone tried that out? That would be nice, as even on a CRT, those
Yes, the PSX core certainly has a lot of interesting features that can elevate it above real hardware even when using CRTs. At the same time, there are bugs on specific games being fixed almost weekly, which is a great sign of increasing accuracy, but also for me a suggestion to wait until the core matures more before considering it as a replacement for real hardware.

evil_ash_xero wrote:I asked earlier, but how is the overclocking on the SNES core? Do many games crash?
Now for the SNES this core is almost perfect. Development on it has apparently reached an impasse and hasn't been updated since last year, but it really is great as is. You'd be hard-pressed to ever distinguish it from real hardware. I don't feel the need to whip out my original console all the time now.
All sounds great. I have a "game room", and everything is hooked up. So, I don't think it will replace any consoles... but if I can play certain games better (SNES, PSX), I would love that option. And of course, adding arcade and Neo Geo games was my main reason for getting one.
It all sounds pretty wild. I hadn't been paying attention at all, and didn't know anything about it. Seems like a little wonder box. Definitely seems to have worked out the problems with software emulation (latency).
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by fernan1234 »

Oh I missed the part in your question about overclocking on the SNES. I don't use that feature so didn't even know if it was there, but if it is you might as well try it. A cool advantage of the SNES core over OG hardware is blending of pseudo-transparency patterns, gives you the best of all worlds.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by McNutts »

evil_ash_xero wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:In the meantime, this has PSX support, does it not? I've seen that they've added bilinear filtering to the polygons in some cores. Anyone tried that out? That would be nice, as even on a CRT, those
Yes, the PSX core certainly has a lot of interesting features that can elevate it above real hardware even when using CRTs. At the same time, there are bugs on specific games being fixed almost weekly, which is a great sign of increasing accuracy, but also for me a suggestion to wait until the core matures more before considering it as a replacement for real hardware.

evil_ash_xero wrote:I asked earlier, but how is the overclocking on the SNES core? Do many games crash?
Now for the SNES this core is almost perfect. Development on it has apparently reached an impasse and hasn't been updated since last year, but it really is great as is. You'd be hard-pressed to ever distinguish it from real hardware. I don't feel the need to whip out my original console all the time now.
All sounds great. I have a "game room", and everything is hooked up. So, I don't think it will replace any consoles... but if I can play certain games better (SNES, PSX), I would love that option. And of course, adding arcade and Neo Geo games was my main reason for getting one.
It all sounds pretty wild. I hadn't been paying attention at all, and didn't know anything about it. Seems like a little wonder box. Definitely seems to have worked out the problems with software emulation (latency).
I own every console from the NES to the PS5/Xbox Series consoles. I have multiples of most of them too. I also have Everdrives or ODEs like the Xstation or GDEMU. That way I have access to every game ever made on OG hardware. They are all connected using HD Retro Vision component cables that are fed into a 5.1 receiver with large speakers and a 10" and 12" subwoofer. The receiver is then connected to a 36" Sony CRT. The CRT I got from my grandparents when they got a LCD. They bought the CRT right before HD CRTs came out in the 2010s. My grandparents have $$$ so it was the most expensive CRT they could get from Best Buy at the time. Outside of a PVM or BVMI have the ideal setup for retro gaming on original hardware.

I typed that so people will understand that I have the option to play on original hardware with a great 36" CRT, a great 5.1 setup, and can play any game ever made.

While I do play using my original hardware setup from time to time, especially when I want to play light gun games, I find myself using my MiSTer connected to my 65" LG OLED 95% of the time. It's so nice to have near 100% accurate gaming on one device that lets me use any controller I want and in many cases is better than the original hardware. Plus the much larger screen is nice too.

For example when I'm playing PS1 I use my MiSTer 99% of the time. I turn dithering off, turn on the widescreen hack, increase the read speed, use save states ALL the time, and increase the CPU speed that increases the frame rate. I can't do that with OG hardware. I use my Nintendo store Switch SNES BT controllers when I'm playing Neo Geo games. Those are just two examples of reasons why I use the MiSTer over OG hardware.

Probably the best thing about the MiSTer IMHO is all of the arcade games I have access to. I tend to play a Neo Geo shmup when I get off of work every day. Then I will make some dinner and play a random arcade game I pick. Lately this is followed up with a PS1 RPG (Currently playing FFVII for the 10th time). I broke up with my GF recently so I have a lot of free time on my hands.

I felt the same way as you when I first bought my MiSTer. I had all the hardware I wanted and could play any game ever made on that hardware. I thought I would just use the MiSTer for arcade games since I don't own any arcade boards. Then after being stuck in my house during COVID I switched to mainly using my MiSTer and barely touching my original hardware.

I like MiSTer so much I bought another one. Honestly it was because I forgot I had ordered one from either Digi Key or McMaster before I got one directly from Terasic. They didn't charge my CC when I pre-ordered it so I forgot about it. But because I like MiSTer so much I decided to keep it. I'm going to build my own arcade cab for it. I'm just looking for a good CRT for it. If I can't find a good arcade CRT I will just get a 25"-27" CRT TV for the cab.

I guess the point of all that word vomit is that I'm pretty sure you will be surprised by how much you like the MiSTer and how much you start using it over the OG hardware you have. Lord knows I had no clue all of my original hardware would be neglected as much as it has been ever since I got my first MiSTer.

PS: You need to buy a VGA to component cable if you plan on using a CRT with component inputs. There will be a switch you flip on the MiSTer and I think a change in the INI (ypbpr=1) file too. Then you just need to figure out how you will get audio out of the MiSTer. I use a TOSLINK cable that's connected to my 5.1 receiver for the audio.

Component Cables: https://misteraddons.com/collections/pa ... 3472225413
Audio Cable: https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Pearl ... B000F20MOW
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Thanks for the links.

Sounds amazing. I know, at the least, I will be messing with it a lot. I'll see what it can do.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by fernan1234 »

Stories like that of people basically replacing their entire retro setups with MiSTer are pretty common. I can see that especially for people that prefer playing on big flat panels. It's really hard to beat the convenience.

I don't go that far and only full-time replaced a couple of OG systems, especially the PC Engine which is simply a much better (and cheaper) experience on MiSTer than the best RGB-modded OG hardware (and the Terraonion add-on may do the correct colors, but it still has bugs). Oh and also the Gameboy systems, I used to play those on a GBAConsolizer but the MiSTer cores on a CRT are just too good, especially with save states. I can see myself eventually migrating to the PS1 core given all the features, but again I want to wait for it to mature further as more bugs are fixed. For everything else it's of course great to have the option of very accurate cores with some additional advantages.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by Steven »

McNutts wrote:I own every console from the NES to the PS5/Xbox Series consoles.
You have the Pippin and the fucking Linguaphone Education Gear? Holy shit.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Does the MiSTer (I hate spelling it that way) have adjustable interpolation? Basically, anything to make the picture look more fuzzy (like an old CRT), if you want? But adjustable.
Similar to what the Analogue Mega Drive and SNES's have?
Someone mentioned a "GS Interpolation" that you could adjust, in a forum. I don't know what that is, but made me want to ask this question.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by fernan1234 »

Yeah there's a lot of filters and configurations for them that you can use to make the picture look more crappy. The main beneficial effect from these filters is to get rid of shimmering when scaling to flat panels.

There's also nice mask filters that can actually produce a more CRT-like effect.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by evil_ash_xero »

OK, sounds good.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by Steven »

The MiSTer's interpolation is kind of terrible compared to the Analogue systems, unfortunately. For some things I can never find settings that get rid of the shimmering without making the game look significantly worse. It's one of like three things that Analogue's systems do better than the MiSTer.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by Steven »

Forgot to mention this before but at least at one point there were a few things that only worked over HDMI. Maybe those things got fixed and now work on analog, but I don't know, and I forgot what they were. I have a feeling that Vectrex might have been one of them, but I really did forget.
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by ldeveraux »

Steven wrote:Forgot to mention this before but at least at one point there were a few things that only worked over HDMI. Maybe those things got fixed and now work on analog, but I don't know, and I forgot what they were. I have a feeling that Vectrex might have been one of them, but I really did forget.
How often do you say to yourself, "you know what I want to do today? Play Vectrex on my MiSteR!!"
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Re: MiSTer FPGA board

Post by Steven »

ldeveraux wrote:
Steven wrote:Forgot to mention this before but at least at one point there were a few things that only worked over HDMI. Maybe those things got fixed and now work on analog, but I don't know, and I forgot what they were. I have a feeling that Vectrex might have been one of them, but I really did forget.
How often do you say to yourself, "you know what I want to do today? Play Vectrex on my MiSteR!!"
My Vectrex is broken, so unfortunately I use the Vectrex core more often than I use my real Vectrex. I really should go fix my Vectrex eventually.
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