shmups.system11.org

Since the Mega Sg thread is getting a bit polluted, probably worth moving the discussion over here.

For a quick primer, the MiSTer is a semi-DIY project that involves an FPGA development board (the Terasic DE10-Nano) and a variety of additional components which can be self-assembled or purchased from various community members. It runs open-source FPGA "cores" that emulate the components of various game consoles, vintage computers and arcade PCBs. It is an extension/offshoot of the MiST project, which is an FPGA board that can be purchased as a single unit but is less powerful than the MiSTer. Last I heard, production of the original MiST has ceased so when current stock runs out they will no longer be available new. Development for the MiST has also slowed down generally, whereas there is a lot of activity in the MiSTer community (though much of it surrounds one developer).

For more information, the MiSTer wiki can be found here:
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki


From the Mega Sg thread:


The MiSTer is pretty configurable, you can see from the wiki that several settings can be toggled:

You can disable the scandoubler to output 15khz, and set csync to output on the H pin instead of HV sync, meaning connection to a PVM or consumer CRT TV is not difficult. There is also a YPbPr option.

I don't currently own a MiSTer but I do have a MiST, I mainly got it for the vintage computer cores (Atari ST, Amiga, etc.) which are great and also available on MiSTer. I'll likely be picking up a MiSTer soon.

Keep us updated and let us know how much all the parts will cost you in the end.

Very interested in this.

The DE10-Nano FPGA board with HDMI output is 135 EUR shipped from Mouser (within the EU). The only neccessary add-on is the RAM extension board (25 EUR shipped) and a OTG USB hub (10 EUR).

The optional i/o Board which provides VGA output, SPDIF output and a secondary SD Card slot (for floppy emulation) is 55-60 EUR shipped. Instead of the OTG USB hub there's a USB hub board available which fits underneath the DE10-Nano, but severs the same purpose as an standalone USB hub.

That's it.

I'm honestly waiting until this comes out as a pre-made/configured kit - with just like a nice pre-setup image I have to throw up on the SD card or whtnot. Just the number of hours I have into doing things like modding my OG Xbox, or Wii, or GroovyMAME, or RetroPie on a RP3 (all easy to get initially hacked and/or running...dozens of hours each to get them how I want them)...there's no way in hell I'm getting into another technical project anytime soon.

This does seem awesome though. How is REAL controller support on these? Lightgun use?

I tried reading up on the original MiST project quite some time ago, but they really didn't do a very good job in promoting the project. Documention wasn't great and it seemed to be focused on home computer emulation (like Amiga). Eventually it wasn't very inviting.

The MiSTer project on the other hand makes the end user configuration seem very easy and Smokemonster and ETA Prime did a nice job in promoting the project. The amount of console and arcade cores make it very appealing of course.

Maybe the original MiST was never any different though...

Very good overview by Smokemonster
https://m.youtube.com/watch?ebc=ANyPxKp ... giVHfBzX8w


I also don't like to spend time.. I ordered one of there for MAME.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/256-GB-ODROID- ... SwQFNbyh-o

170$ just for a filled up sd card? I can`t believe

Currently only USB controllers are supported (presumably USB adapters will work as well). The MiST also has two DB9 ports which work with genuine Amiga/Atari controllers.

A low-latency controller adapter is also in the works for the MiSTer, RetroRGB reported on it this week: http://retrorgb.com/mister-ultra-low-latency-controller-add-on-board.html

As for lightguns, I'm not so sure.. I wouldn't hold your breath! I imagine the video timings would work alright but connecting the lightgun as a functioning input might be tricky.



Haha, I can believe it. A decent chunk of that (around half I guess?) is simply the cost of a 256GB SD card. It sounds crazy but setting something like that up yourself is really time consuming. I imagine it would take a few days at least. Obviously for the guy selling them it's just copy and paste at this point but I can see why people would rather just forego all that effort and buy a preloaded card. I am surprised eBay allows it though. Seller has a lot of feedback too so they have been around for a while.

We have community guides and there's lots of places to get help.

Don't pay a grifter money to copy and paste files onto a questionable sd card. That guy isn't going to provide support for the life of your MISTer or replace an SD card that goes bad. He's just a f#3king grifter.

To me worth every penny.. I don't hav the time nor want to deal with that and happy to pay.

Any one that sells you MiSTer will offer you a pre setup SD image.

Probs no Roms but that's easy fixed.

Retroshop https://www.facebook.com/retroshoppontopt can provide all that, help, and the files you will need. No extra cost. It's from a guy who is in the Mist, and Mister community since the begining. He is more into old computers like Spectrum, Atari and Commodores, but he also knows about consoles and arcade boards. He is in Portugal but ship worldwide.

Has there been any input lag testing? I saw the output of some cores can be rotated and it needs a framebuffer to do that so is there at least a 1 frame delay?

If someone makes a JAMMA add-on card so I can slam this straight into my arcade cab I'll be all over it.

The sad thing is 19 mugs have bought one from him!

This is for an non FPGA based hardware/emulator set right? Why has it come up in an FPGA emulator discussion?

From my understanding, even if the DE-10 Nano board (the FGPA board MiSTer uses) was discontinued in the future, porting the cores over to a new FPGA would not be too big of a deal. This makes the project seem pretty important to me because since it's open source this will essentially be long term preservation as these cores get more accurate.

Found some more info regarding input lag. Sorgelig said the HDMI scaler uses triple buffering so there should be 2-3 frames of lag through HDMI.



http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=355513#p355513

That's one of the many reasons I use OSSC for all my HDMI needs. That way I can be sure of lag ect.

Shame tho.

Technically triple buffering could be as low as 1 frame of lag under the right circumstances. And unbounded on the high end.

It’s a great way to decouple refresh rates without tearing. Which seems like a good decision if you’re fighting an uphill battle of perception w.r.t. compatibility.

That being said. I’ll probably use my OSSC as well except when rotation is needed.

EDIT: And if you want to double down on technicalities. Depending on how you measure it can be less than a frame if you’re not measuring top to top, and the hdmi side updates faster than the analog side draws.

SmokeMonster just did a really successful fundraiser for the devs behind this thing. In case anyone is still interested in donating you can become a patron to SmokeMonster here:
https://www.patreon.com/smokemonster
And Sorgelig has a paypal here:
paypal.me/FPGAMiSTer
And ElectronAsh has one here:
adevans2k4@hotmail.com

Basically anything you give these people even if it is only a dollar can only do good things for the community.

You can also send superchats via SmokeMonster's youtube streams but Youtube takes like 30% of those and paypal takes a far smaller cut and you can even send the payment as a gift which means you pay the fees and they get 100% of your donation.

You don't want to count on the speed of sample and hold as a crutch.

The community has to demand line buffering as a primary rendering option for most cores.

I don't see the problem with just using the native refresh rate out if your tv accepts it.

Also I wonder if they could implement whatever the retrotink does because that seems to get the snes working on a lot of tvs that don't accept its native refresh rate and afaik it doesn't add any lag or buffering.

Just ordered my DE10-Nano ........just in time for the SNES core to be released (in beta form)

So ive just tried the Megadrive core @ 1080p with no graphic filters and damn the image soft, when compared to something like RetroArch with no filters applied that is light years ahead in the sharpness department!

Not sure about where lightgun is at, but real controller support is being worked on:
http://retrorgb.com/mister-ll-cool-joy- ... pdate.html

Is there a guide to installing a frontend like RetroPie to the Mister? Is this even advisable? I have the RAM board on order, but have played around with a few of the cores. It emulates perfectly, but I can't use the interface. Having to load with keyboard each time isn't enduser friendly IMO. Am I missing something, or is this just the way Mister is?

I don't believe that is even possible. They are completely different technologies. The MiSTer uses an FPGA for hardware emulation (ie it emulates the hardware components of the consoles) whereas RetroPie is just software that runs in an OS, ie software emulation.

Not trying to start an argument, but what's the point? Is the emulation that much better that it's worth the UI? I bought one because I thought it would replace my RPi gaming system, I guess that was a mistake. How would I best utilize this device then?

I believe the proposal is not for running RetroArch on the MiSTer--it's for repurposing its front-end to make it easier to do things like load ROMs/cores and perform configuration.