CRT consumer TV comparison. ....please help

[reldvs1]

Hello,
I have the ability to get
Kv-36fs100 and kv-32fs100

I just picked up JVC av-36d502

My question is,
Are the two Sony fs100 better than the JVC?
How do they compare? Should I kill my back getting these lower quality tube sets or is my top if the line D series just as good?

Please answer soon so I don't lose the availability of the Sony's

[FinalBaton]

I think user MikeJMoffit has one of those nice D Series JVC. Hopefully he'll see this thread

[reldvs1]

I think user MikeJMoffit has one of those nice D Series JVC. Hopefully he'll see this thread

Thanks for the reply.
Yes I hope he does see my post then lol

I really hate to waste my time lugging home a couple of fs100 sets if they won't be an improvement over my JVC

Thanks again

[Dochartaigh]

The D502 is JVC's highest end SD model (that I know of). The two Sony's are not (those would be the FV310 line).

With TV's this old it all comes down to condition. The JVC could look like crap and the Sony's excellent (or vice-versus).

The JVC is also a shadow mask type set, where the Sony's are aperture grill so there's slightly different looks to them - I believe the JVC is curved as well where the Sony's are flat (some say curved can have better geometry, FYI). All of these are also larger sets where for consumer TV's 27" is considered the sweet spot.

[reldvs1]

The D502 is JVC's highest end SD model (that I know of). The two Sony's are not (those would be the FV310 line).

With TV's this old it all comes down to condition. The JVC could look like crap and the Sony's excellent (or vice-versus).

The JVC is also a shadow mask type set, where the Sony's are aperture grill so there's slightly different looks to them - I believe the JVC is curved as well where the Sony's are flat (some say curved can have better geometry, FYI). All of these are also larger sets where for consumer TV's 27" is considered the sweet spot.

Yes the jvc is curved and one reason I wanted to use it was for light gun games and large shooting area. So for those reasons, I believe the jvc will be great.

I did also pickup a kv24fv300.....which as I understand is very similar to 310 but lacks the amp to reduce blooming on white screens that the 310 has. However I also read the 24fv300 has a setting in service menu that is on this chassis design that is helpful for retro gaming.

So basically, what you are saying is check out the pictures if I can on the fs100 sets but that my JVC (top of line) should be better than the fs100 (lowest) ....with the only real difference being the aperture grill on Sony vs shadow mask on JVC but that would be minor. Also that 27" is better for geometry over 32"& 36"

Does this sound like I've got the info correct?

I have the JVC already, I was just trying to decide if I should consider these fs100 sets. Unless I misunderstood. I should not. They are not 27" and are lesser tubes and are heavier and I don't think I'll be able to test the picture before. Although they say they at "great" pictures.

[Dochartaigh]

So basically, what you are saying is check out the pictures if I can on the fs100 sets but that my JVC (top of line) should be better than the fs100 (lowest) ....with the only real difference being the aperture grill on Sony vs shadow mask on JVC but that would be minor. Also that 27" is better for geometry over 32"& 36"

One other thing to note if the Sony 27" CRT's of this generation also have a M series tube - which is the series of tube Sony BVM and PVM's have (NOT the same quality in terms of TVLines and all, just higher quality as a whole). ALL other Sony sizes (in the dozen or so service manuals I've looked at the part numbers in) use the lesser quality A tubes (don't know/think this applies to JVC - just mentioning Sony here for this example). This is another reason why I like the Sony 27" sets, in particular the FV310 (which can be a bear to find).

But yes, your top end JVC should in theory top the lower end Sony's, but again it's all about condition, and I also personally highly prefer aperture grill to shadow mask.

[reldvs1]

Thanks very much for the very informative reply. I'll be curious what I think of aperture grill vs shadow mask

One last question,
34xbr970
I know there is no SFP....and it's not as good as the 960.....but. ....if you could get one. Would you? Not for retro gaming but for original Xbox and Wii?
Or best just to pass on 970 altogether?

[bigbadboaz]

..for consumer TV's 27" is considered the sweet spot.

Could you elaborate on this?

[Dochartaigh]

..for consumer TV's 27" is considered the sweet spot.

Could you elaborate on this?

As I mentioned above 'modern/newer' Sony 27" (talking about Wega's here) use a higher quality tube than all other size Sony's...and as Sony's are considered the gold standard, that's saying something about the 27".

Smaller I haven't found any consumer TV I like the picture quality of to be honest, by any manufacturer. And larger can look very nice, but it's still a VERY large screen to play 240p type stuff on IMO. The smaller size of the 27" will have more dense pixels (for lack of a better word...really just the same resolution, but packed into a smaller size if that makes sense), and I find that 27" to be the sweet spot. Honestly though, they can look the same (or extremely similar) if you want to sit 4' from a 27" and 8' away from a 36" you're unlikely to notice a difference unless you get REALLY into nitpicking these things (and again, that difference could just be because one TV is in better shape than the other and/or calibrated better).

Then there's also size and mass. A regular person can carry a 27" on their own if they can lift around 100 pounds (which most guys can for short distances). Larger than that and unless you're into working out or body building you'll need two people to move that beast around.

Also, I'm no expert on the manufacturing process and what REALLY makes one CRT better than another (but do intensely follow the forums and groups where there are guys like that which I'm glad to learn from). I'm just a hobbyist who's owned a couple dozen consumer CRT's in the last couple years, and well over 100 PVM/BVM type professional monitors, so by now I know what I like, and what *to me* has the better picture.

[reldvs1]

..for consumer TV's 27" is considered the sweet spot.

Could you elaborate on this?

As I mentioned above 'modern/newer' Sony 27" (talking about Wega's here) use a higher quality tube than all other size Sony's...and as Sony's are considered the gold standard, that's saying something about the 27".

Smaller I haven't found any consumer TV I like the picture quality of to be honest, by any manufacturer. And larger can look very nice, but it's still a VERY large screen to play 240p type stuff on IMO. The smaller size of the 27" will have more dense pixels (for lack of a better word...really just the same resolution, but packed into a smaller size if that makes sense), and I find that 27" to be the sweet spot. Honestly though, they can look the same (or extremely similar) if you want to sit 4' from a 27" and 8' away from a 36" you're unlikely to notice a difference unless you get REALLY into nitpicking these things (and again, that difference could just be because one TV is in better shape than the other and/or calibrated better).

Then there's also size and mass. A regular person can carry a 27" on their own if they can lift around 100 pounds (which most guys can for short distances). Larger than that and unless you're into working out or body building you'll need two people to move that beast around.

Also, I'm no expert on the manufacturing process and what REALLY makes one CRT better than another (but do intensely follow the forums and groups where there are guys like that which I'm glad to learn from). I'm just a hobbyist who's owned a couple dozen consumer CRT's in the last couple years, and well over 100 PVM/BVM type professional monitors, so by now I know what I like, and what *to me* has the better picture.

Hey, sorry to ask again but should I bother with the xbr970? Have a chance to get one. Want your opinion on if it would be worth it. I know it's not as good as 960 but I can't find one.

[maxtherabbit]

I've had very poor results with all the WEGAs I've tried. IQ was overrated, and they played hell on my light guns - sometimes not working at all

[Einzelherz]

At this point it's becoming harder and harder to favor sets without a live comparison due to age and wear. There are still models to aspire to, but I'll take a great geometry mid level over a run down high end every day.

[Dochartaigh]

I've had very poor results with all the WEGAs I've tried. IQ was overrated, and they played hell on my light guns - sometimes not working at all

Image quality as compared to what/which other CRT's was overrated on the Wega's, maxtherabbit? Need a benchmark here - as if you're comparing it to a BVM or PVM (of any flavor: Sony, Ikegami, JVC, NEC, etc.), then of course a consumer set can fall short of that benchmark. I find any CRT (again, I like the 27ish"), in good condition (i.e. still with decent calibration and good black levels, no massive red push, decent geometry, etc.) can ALL look good, even amazing - even the lowest end Sony's, JVC, Panasonics, etc.



For lightguns what problems are you having? I'm assuming you have the right cables or dongle (a la PS1/2) when the lightgun needs to plug into composite to grab a signal from? I have lightguns for NES, Saturn, Dreamcast (haven't tried that yet on a Wega TBH - just got that and have been using that in 480p on a 480p monitor , PS1, PS2, and the original Xbox right in front of me (and literally EVERY single light gun game ever made for those systems) and all work fine on my KV-27FV310's and are accurate. OK, can't get the friggin menu to work on Elemental Gearbolt with a controller and gun plugged in (which I had to burn 4x times to get working), and gun calibration can be a pain to even get to on some systems (do I press the left button or right button to switch menu option, what's enter?...seems to be different on every game which is annoying), but once you figure out stuff like that the guns themselves always seem to be accurate at least.

I have come across before, from a couple people on a Facebook group who swore left and right that NO lightguns work on ANY flatscreen CRT...which I then uploaded a video of several different systems working on them just fine. Even when the signal goes RGB Console > Crosspoint > RGBS to YPbPr Converter > back into Crosspoint > finally to consumer Sony Wega CRT, these still work for me...

Hey, sorry to ask again but should I bother with the xbr970? Have a chance to get one. Want your opinion on if it would be worth it. I know it's not as good as 960 but I can't find one.

I didn't comment because I've never personally owned one of those - too big and heavy for me. Only played on the 960's at two friends houses where they look nice on the later 480p+ systems. I will say the two or three (maybe 4?) HD CRT's I've brought home (smaller ones) always came to me pretty jacked up - could have been a string of bad luck but I don't know. When I'm in the mood for a bigger screen for my later systems, I would rather just play them on my TCL flatscreens, and play them on my nice comfy couch in the living room to be honest (instead of squeezed into my smaller mancave/gameroom on an office chair playing on the CRT's).

[bigbadboaz]

Back when Wegas were still on the market and the flatpanel transition was only beginning, I remember being slightly underwhelmed when experiencing the Wegas in person. I didn't see the big jump over the regular, horizontally curved Trinitrons (didn't help that to my eye the Wega cabinets were uglier rather than classier-looking for the money) and anecdotally I saw several examples of the Wegas suffering geometrically vs. the slightly curved models. I've read in several places that the flat screen made correcting for geometrical errors more difficult, but that was always talk without hard reasoning behind it.

Dochartaigh, you referenced the Wegas specifically re: your 27" preference. Any thoughts on the midrange Trinis of the time, the Vs and even S tubes?

[Ed Oscuro]

You definitely want to follow Einzelherz's advice and try before you buy. While I think a lot of "old" sets have a lot of life left in them, it would be tragic to wrestle with a few hundred pounds of squeaky plastic, metal, and glass just to find out that it's done for.

After eliminating any potential lemons from the three-way tie, you might want to consider diving into the specs to see which (if any) offer 480p; depending on what era of gaming you're interested in, that will be the biggest actual benefit you can gain. You'd also want to check that component (YPbPr) input is available, as well.

The only thing I will say in favor of the Wegas, since this discussion may well be academic, is that they certainly have the largest following and that may help you should you need help with your set down the road. A lot of us just aren't familiar with anything else.

[Dochartaigh]

Back when Wegas were still on the market and the flatpanel transition was only beginning, I remember being slightly underwhelmed when experiencing the Wegas in person. I didn't see the big jump over the regular, horizontally curved Trinitrons (didn't help that to my eye the Wega cabinets were uglier rather than classier-looking for the money) and anecdotally I saw several examples of the Wegas suffering geometrically vs. the slightly curved models. I've read in several places that the flat screen made correcting for geometrical errors more difficult, but that was always talk without hard reasoning behind it.

Dochartaigh, you referenced the Wegas specifically re: your 27" preference. Any thoughts on the midrange Trinis of the time, the Vs and even S tubes?

Mid range Trinitron's, as in the black ones before the silver Wega's? Don't know what the Vs or S tubes are to be honest (never said I'm an expert lol). Besides hauls I picked up for some people and setup in their house and played on, the only black one I personally owned for a decent period of time (owned a couple before I was into retro gaming for regular living room use, but those don't count as I was using composite back then!) was my Uncle's 32XBR55? which was his basement TV and barely used...still looked pretty bad to me (as compared to the Wega FV300, FV310, FS100/120 type ones even), but could have just aged bad. So I don't really have a strong opinion of those pre-Component curved screen ones (don't pick them up myself as only 1? super rare model had Component and I'm not about to get into RGB modding anything since I have too many BVM/PVM's as-is... (anybody need a 20" PVM near Philly? lol).

I do however have a 1995? PVM-3230 (with RGBS, 650 TVLines) which I definitely love. Needs a recap very soon, and isn't quite as vibrant as the FV310's (need to recalibrate it when I recap, and I have high hopes in this regard), but size does matter - I'll say that. I wouldn't be surprised if this used the same tube as the higher end black Trinitron's from that same era.

[energizerfellow‌]

For lightguns what problems are you having? I'm assuming you have the right cables or dongle (a la PS1/2) when the lightgun needs to plug into composite to grab a signal from? I have lightguns for NES, Saturn, Dreamcast (haven't tried that yet on a Wega TBH - just got that and have been using that in 480p on a 480p monitor , PS1, PS2, and the original Xbox right in front of me (and literally EVERY single light gun game ever made for those systems) and all work fine on my KV-27FV310's and are accurate. OK, can't get the friggin menu to work on Elemental Gearbolt with a controller and gun plugged in (which I had to burn 4x times to get working), and gun calibration can be a pain to even get to on some systems (do I press the left button or right button to switch menu option, what's enter?...seems to be different on every game which is annoying), but once you figure out stuff like that the guns themselves always seem to be accurate at least.

I have come across before, from a couple people on a Facebook group who swore left and right that NO lightguns work on ANY flatscreen CRT...which I then uploaded a video of several different systems working on them just fine. Even when the signal goes RGB Console > Crosspoint > RGBS to YPbPr Converter > back into Crosspoint > finally to consumer Sony Wega CRT, these still work for me...

The real issue here is that all Sony Hi-Scan and Super Fine Pitch CRTs have ~2 frames of processing latency, depending on input mode. These Sonys also treat 240p as 480i, even with service menu tweaks, just for added fun.

Here's a video showing the input lag on a Sony Hi-Scan CRT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--xY_NvwJ_g

Affected models:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron/WEGA

Some service menu tweaks you can do:
https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... _wega_and/
https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... dded_only/

Sony also had both a thing against component inputs and geometry issues on their Trinitron flat glass, which is where I think the cargo cult orthodoxy comes from that component is super rare and any and all flat CRTs have shit geometry. Never mind you had things like the Toshiba Perfect Flat displays that not only (all?) had YPbPr component, but where arguably some of the best CRTs ever made and pretty common to boot.

I'm also of the opinion that virtually all low-persistence HD CRTs are literally headache-inducing to look at for long periods and will flicker in my peripheral vision. Same for CRT PC monitors running under ~75 Hz in my experience.

If you want Sony alternatives to look into, check Toshiba, Sharp, and JVC/Panasonic (same company). For pro and PC monitors, add NEC, Eizo, and Ikegami to the list. As a general rule, the Japanese and American brands were good, but the European and Korean brands where pretty terrible. Interestingly, virtually all CRTs but the absolutely rock bottom cheapest looked pretty damn good by the last days of CRT production. Even cheap little Funai and Sharp from Walmart can look shockingly decent if you have at least S-Video to work with as an input.

[maxtherabbit]

I've had very poor results with all the WEGAs I've tried. IQ was overrated, and they played hell on my light guns - sometimes not working at all

Image quality as compared to what/which other CRT's was overrated on the Wega's, maxtherabbit? Need a benchmark here - as if you're comparing it to a BVM or PVM (of any flavor: Sony, Ikegami, JVC, NEC, etc.), then of course a consumer set can fall short of that benchmark. I find any CRT (again, I like the 27ish"), in good condition (i.e. still with decent calibration and good black levels, no massive red push, decent geometry, etc.) can ALL look good, even amazing - even the lowest end Sony's, JVC, Panasonics, etc.



For lightguns what problems are you having? I'm assuming you have the right cables or dongle (a la PS1/2) when the lightgun needs to plug into composite to grab a signal from? I have lightguns for NES, Saturn, Dreamcast (haven't tried that yet on a Wega TBH - just got that and have been using that in 480p on a 480p monitor , PS1, PS2, and the original Xbox right in front of me (and literally EVERY single light gun game ever made for those systems) and all work fine on my KV-27FV310's and are accurate. OK, can't get the friggin menu to work on Elemental Gearbolt with a controller and gun plugged in (which I had to burn 4x times to get working), and gun calibration can be a pain to even get to on some systems (do I press the left button or right button to switch menu option, what's enter?...seems to be different on every game which is annoying), but once you figure out stuff like that the guns themselves always seem to be accurate at least.

I have come across before, from a couple people on a Facebook group who swore left and right that NO lightguns work on ANY flatscreen CRT...which I then uploaded a video of several different systems working on them just fine. Even when the signal goes RGB Console > Crosspoint > RGBS to YPbPr Converter > back into Crosspoint > finally to consumer Sony Wega CRT, these still work for me...

WEGA-wise I've had a KV-24FV300, KV-32FV27, and KD-32FS170

ALL of them had terrible geometry, massive amounts of horizontal bowing and other issues. Of the three, the KD-32FS120 easily had the sharpest picture. Probably because it was the newest. The KV-24FV300 had a HV problem where the next raster line after a high-brightness line was drawn would shift substantially to the right. All of them pale in comparison to my 2006 consumer grade curved Sharp 32" that I'm using now (the benchmark.)

Lightgun-wise I have a Konami justifier for genesis and a Nyko Super Cobra for PS1. The Cobra emulates a Guncon or a Justifier. Yes I have the sync properly connected to the gun. On the sharp at default settings they both register hits accurately over 90% of the viewable area. Hits at the extreme edges are still registered, but the POI might drift a bit, never more than a half inch or so.

On the WEGAs at default settings, the Justifier basically doesn't work at all and the Cobra is dodgy. Turning up the brightness (WAY up) makes the justifier register hits sorta but never near the bottom or edges of the screen. Performance and accuracy of the Cobra is still generally inferior.

All the Sonys have been for digital processing lag (none) so that has been ruled out as the cause. I'm legitimately curious as to why the guns do so poorly on them, but have since sold all three WEGAs so I won't be able to perform any additional testing for the foreseeable future.

As a control I also have a 36" Toshiba curved CRT - both guns perform satisfactorily on it - maybe not quite as much accurate coverage as the Sharp but miles ahead of the Sonys.

PS. Recently acquired a 32" curved Trinitron. This set doesn't have RGB or component inputs (yet) so I've only done limited testing on it. Guns seem to work mostly ok over composite, but performance is still somewhat lacking on the Justifier with respect to hits on the outer regions of the screen. Worse than the Toshiba, better than the WEGAs. I'd love to know if there's something about Aperture Grille that the Justifier simply doesn't like, or if there's something else at play. I plan to RGB mod the TV soon, and resume testing.

PPS. The only WEGA I would spend time picking up at this point is an FV310. Too bad they're vaporware around here. I wonder if you have been spoiled by now nice those are and are overestimating the other WEGAs as a result?

[maxtherabbit]

OP - I'd be shocked if the WEGAs can touch the D-series, but why not get them and see for yourself? Sell them for $25 on craigslist if they don't stack up. I've done that 3 times now

[Dochartaigh]

The real issue here is that all Sony Hi-Scan and Super Fine Pitch CRTs have ~2 frames of processing latency, depending on input mode. These Sonys also treat 240p as 480i, even with service menu tweaks, just for added fun.

Here's a video showing the input lag on a Sony Hi-Scan CRT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--xY_NvwJ_g

Affected models:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron/WEGA

Some service menu tweaks you can do:
https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... _wega_and/
https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... dded_only/

I don't think (or hope I should say) that anybody is talking about light gun games and Sony (or any) HD type CRT's. We're talking about SD sets which treat 240p as 240p and 480i as 480i. It's pretty much common knowledge at this point to anybody on the forums for a while that HD CRT's won't play nice with light gun games.

PPS. The only WEGA I would spend time picking up at this point is an FV310. Too bad they're vaporware around here. I wonder if you have been spoiled by now nice those are and are overestimating the other WEGAs as a result?

I do think I've been spoiled with the 27FV310's. None of those around here for a good solid year+...then three in a row in 2018 (and a 27FV300 I gave to my cousin).

But I don't know if your luck has just been bad with the Sony Wega's or not. I've given away a good half dozen (probably more) FS120's and FS100's (think that was the models, those are the most common SD sets around me), and all those were good too. Good geometry even.

I also don't know if the FV310's fair better for light gun games versus these other models or not (I don't know why they would), but for the past couple months (until a vast re-setup a couple weeks ago) I had 2x PS2's system linked playing Time Crisis 2 and 3 on two screens and had zero complaints from the 10 or so people I've had over and played those light gun games with.

[FinalBaton]

At some point I'd like to test a 27 inch FV310, for the better specs over the bigger variants of the same line. I bet it's a very nice screen.

My KV-25XBR blows my KV-36FV300 clean out of the water though. Not even close. Although I've tuned the FV300 to look quite good now over component. Even S-video is pretty nice. And the screen size is a lot larger on that one.

[maxtherabbit]

I also don't know if the FV310's fair better for light gun games versus these other models or not (I don't know why they would), but for the past couple months (until a vast re-setup a couple weeks ago) I had 2x PS2's system linked playing Time Crisis 2 and 3 on two screens and had zero complaints from the 10 or so people I've had over and played those light gun games with.

Do most people actually use the sights on the gun or just walk their shots in based on displayed POI? (I use the sights)

[nmalinoski]

At some point I'd like to test a 27 inch FV310, for the better specs over the bigger variants of the same line. I bet it's a very nice screen.

My KV-25XBR blows my KV-36FV300 clean out of the water though. Not even close. Although I've tuned the FV300 to look quite good now over component. Even S-video is pretty nice. And the screen size is a lot larger on that one.

I have one. Wanna come calibrate it for me? I'm only 800km away.

[FinalBaton]

I have one. Wanna come calibrate it for me? I'm only 800km away.

know what? If I lived close by, I'd actually love to drop by and game on it and give a shot to the calibration

[Dochartaigh]

Do most people actually use the sights on the gun or just walk their shots in based on displayed POI? (I use the sights)

I use the sights a lot, but do reflex shooting a lot too.

[maxtherabbit]

My sample size is only 3 so it's well possible I've just seen the shit end of WEGA. I've heard people say online that Sony used lesser components in their late 90s/early 00s sets that didn't last as long. No idea how accurate that is but it may explain why all the ones I've seen are worn out.

[reldvs1]

OP - I'd be shocked if the WEGAs can touch the D-series, but why not get them and see for yourself? Sell them for $25 on craigslist if they don't stack up. I've done that 3 times now

Tomorrow I'm going to look at
32Fs100
34xbr970
And a couple more that I can't tell from pic what they are except Sony

I'm looking at maybe checking out a JVC I'ART , RCA TruFlat, Panasonic TAU, and now maybe Toshiba True Flat now based on what I read above later in the week. I'm gonna test if I can.

[reldvs1]

For lightguns what problems are you having? I'm assuming you have the right cables or dongle (a la PS1/2) when the lightgun needs to plug into composite to grab a signal from? I have lightguns for NES, Saturn, Dreamcast (haven't tried that yet on a Wega TBH - just got that and have been using that in 480p on a 480p monitor , PS1, PS2, and the original Xbox right in front of me (and literally EVERY single light gun game ever made for those systems) and all work fine on my KV-27FV310's and are accurate. OK, can't get the friggin menu to work on Elemental Gearbolt with a controller and gun plugged in (which I had to burn 4x times to get working), and gun calibration can be a pain to even get to on some systems (do I press the left button or right button to switch menu option, what's enter?...seems to be different on every game which is annoying), but once you figure out stuff like that the guns themselves always seem to be accurate at least.

I have come across before, from a couple people on a Facebook group who swore left and right that NO lightguns work on ANY flatscreen CRT...which I then uploaded a video of several different systems working on them just fine. Even when the signal goes RGB Console > Crosspoint > RGBS to YPbPr Converter > back into Crosspoint > finally to consumer Sony Wega CRT, these still work for me...

The real issue here is that all Sony Hi-Scan and Super Fine Pitch CRTs have ~2 frames of processing latency, depending on input mode. These Sonys also treat 240p as 480i, even with service menu tweaks, just for added fun.

Here's a video showing the input lag on a Sony Hi-Scan CRT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--xY_NvwJ_g

Affected models:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron/WEGA

Some service menu tweaks you can do:
https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... _wega_and/
https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... dded_only/

Sony also had both a thing against component inputs and geometry issues on their Trinitron flat glass, which is where I think the cargo cult orthodoxy comes from that component is super rare and any and all flat CRTs have shit geometry. Never mind you had things like the Toshiba Perfect Flat displays that not only (all?) had YPbPr component, but where arguably some of the best CRTs ever made and pretty common to boot.

I'm also of the opinion that virtually all low-persistence HD CRTs are literally headache-inducing to look at for long periods and will flicker in my peripheral vision. Same for CRT PC monitors running under ~75 Hz in my experience.

If you want Sony alternatives to look into, check Toshiba, Sharp, and JVC/Panasonic (same company). For pro and PC monitors, add NEC, Eizo, and Ikegami to the list. As a general rule, the Japanese and American brands were good, but the European and Korean brands where pretty terrible. Interestingly, virtually all CRTs but the absolutely rock bottom cheapest looked pretty damn good by the last days of CRT production. Even cheap little Funai and Sharp from Walmart can look shockingly decent if you have at least S-Video to work with as an input.

On those Toshiba Perfect Flat tv.....will it say that on front line say Sony Trinitron does? How do you identify them or do you happen to know model number. That endorsement from you sounds impressive.
I think I will get any set that's free and meets the recommend list of TV to check out and just compare myself. ....I have a good idea which sets to keep an eye out for and go after if I see them. thanks to everyone here that is. Thanks EVERYONE for their advice and input

[mvsfan]

The JVCS are really nice. I own both a sony kv-32fs120 and a 36" jvc curved crt.

the JVC looks as good if not better than the sony. - AND most importantly, Its about 90lbs lighter.

Id never buy another Sony again because they weigh way too much and i have stairs.

[reldvs1]

For lightguns what problems are you having? I'm assuming you have the right cables or dongle (a la PS1/2) when the lightgun needs to plug into composite to grab a signal from? I have lightguns for NES, Saturn, Dreamcast (haven't tried that yet on a Wega TBH - just got that and have been using that in 480p on a 480p monitor , PS1, PS2, and the original Xbox right in front of me (and literally EVERY single light gun game ever made for those systems) and all work fine on my KV-27FV310's and are accurate. OK, can't get the friggin menu to work on Elemental Gearbolt with a controller and gun plugged in (which I had to burn 4x times to get working), and gun calibration can be a pain to even get to on some systems (do I press the left button or right button to switch menu option, what's enter?...seems to be different on every game which is annoying), but once you figure out stuff like that the guns themselves always seem to be accurate at least.

I have come across before, from a couple people on a Facebook group who swore left and right that NO lightguns work on ANY flatscreen CRT...which I then uploaded a video of several different systems working on them just fine. Even when the signal goes RGB Console > Crosspoint > RGBS to YPbPr Converter > back into Crosspoint > finally to consumer Sony Wega CRT, these still work for me...

The real issue here is that all Sony Hi-Scan and Super Fine Pitch CRTs have ~2 frames of processing latency, depending on input mode. These Sonys also treat 240p as 480i, even with service menu tweaks, just for added fun.

Here's a video showing the input lag on a Sony Hi-Scan CRT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--xY_NvwJ_g

Affected models:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron/WEGA

Some service menu tweaks you can do:
https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... _wega_and/
https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... dded_only/

Sony also had both a thing against component inputs and geometry issues on their Trinitron flat glass, which is where I think the cargo cult orthodoxy comes from that component is super rare and any and all flat CRTs have shit geometry. Never mind you had things like the Toshiba Perfect Flat displays that not only (all?) had YPbPr component, but where arguably some of the best CRTs ever made and pretty common to boot.

I'm also of the opinion that virtually all low-persistence HD CRTs are literally headache-inducing to look at for long periods and will flicker in my peripheral vision. Same for CRT PC monitors running under ~75 Hz in my experience.

If you want Sony alternatives to look into, check Toshiba, Sharp, and JVC/Panasonic (same company). For pro and PC monitors, add NEC, Eizo, and Ikegami to the list. As a general rule, the Japanese and American brands were good, but the European and Korean brands where pretty terrible. Interestingly, virtually all CRTs but the absolutely rock bottom cheapest looked pretty damn good by the last days of CRT production. Even cheap little Funai and Sharp from Walmart can look shockingly decent if you have at least S-Video to work with as an input.

On those Toshiba Perfect Flat tv.....will it say that on front line say Sony Trinitron does? How do you identify them or do you happen to know model number. That endorsement from you sounds impressive.
I think I will get any set that's free and meets the recommend list of TV to check out and just compare myself. ....I have a good idea which sets to keep an eye out for and go after if I see them. thanks to everyone here that is. Thanks EVERYONE for their advice and input

Speaking from my own personal experience. There was no writings on front. I just knew model number for Toshiba.