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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:29 pm 


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I have my original Mega Drive 1 overclocked to 59.94Hz and I've never had a problem with Mega CD 1 compatibility :)


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:39 pm 


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If somebody feels like confirming the scanline issue, here's what I see:

Set the machine to 720p output. Disable vertical interpolation (otherwise the pixels rows will bleed upwards through the scanlines). Enable scanlines. The scanlines max out roughly at the 100 setting and don't change afterwards. They stay rather dim. With hybrid scanlines the completely vanish from any brighter objects and remain dim on darker objects and backgrounds.

Enable advanced video mode, to the extended sizing controls and decrease the vertical size from 720 to 719. Now the scanlines work as intended (and gain intensity up to the 255 setting). Looks great at roughly 140-150 and hybrid ones look even better. Light on bright objects and strong on dark objects. Due to the improper integer scale, scanlines are not perfect everywhere on the screen. At 719 scanlines are dimmer on top of the screen. If you alter the vertical sizing slightly (716/717/718/719) you can see that the "good scanlines areas" are shifted up and down on the screen. Once you set the vertical sizing to 720 px the scanlines snap back into "limited mode" described above.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:55 pm 



Joined: 05 Mar 2017
Posts: 365
Location: Woodinville, WA
I noticed the behavior you're describing with hybrid scanlines on 720p - in Sonic 1 (for example) you don't see them at all on white or yellow objects.

I'll try your hack tonight to see if that corrects it. It definitely struck me as a bug when I saw it.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:58 pm 


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Could someone post their recommended advanced settings for the Mega SG? The best compromise for low lag, 320 and 256 and sound.
Firebrandx did a fantastic video on Youtube for the Super NT. Maybe he has something in the works, but meanwhile some raw recommendation for advanced settings would be fine.
Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:43 pm 


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Horizontal scaling on 480p output is broken. I am not able to dial in a 2x integer horizontal scale. The horizontal sizing control adds 20 px per 320 to the counter (so you get 1x integer at 340), but since the max setting sis 640 and I would need 680 px on that counter, I can't get any proper looking horizontal scale on 480p output.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:05 pm 


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Quote:
Could someone post their recommended advanced settings for the Mega SG?

If you want proper looking scanlines you need to stick to 720p output. Otherwise use 1080p. Next question is how much sharpness you want/need. Can you live with horizontal oversampling? Or even vertical one? If you're ok with interpolation on both axis you can dial in any screen size you like. If you want to avoid interpolation you need to find an integer scaling factor on that particular axis. Due to the switch between 320px and 256px width in games I would stick to vertical integer sizing and stay with interpolation on the horizontal. The comments above the width setting help you find a proper 4:3 for various vertical sizings.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:13 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
If somebody feels like confirming the scanline issue, here's what I see:


For what it's worth can see the exact same thing on the Super NT too.

I wonder if its related to the scaling issue below that from what i can see is replicated on the Mega SG as well.

https://github.com/smokemonsterpacks/su ... issues/127


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:34 pm 


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Quote:
For what it's worth can see the exact same thing on the Super NT too.

yes, I recall seeing this initially, but I thought it was fixed at some point.

Is there any official location where bugs on the Analogue machines are collected? Or is the Super Nt jailbreak github as good as it gets?


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:48 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
Is there any official location where bugs on the Analogue machines are collected? Or is the Super Nt jailbreak github as good as it gets?


Yep, the github is a good as it gets. When I found the above scaling issue (with help and confirmation from fbx) I just put them on there as I thought it more likely that a publicly viewable list might put more pressure on Kev to actually fix this stuff!


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:00 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
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He's on the Analogue payroll and Analogue is done with the Super NT already, and they'll be done with the Sg also once they've sold enough and they move on to the next shiny product.
(Yes, as I've said I'm no fan of this cash-grab company.)


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:30 am 



Joined: 17 May 2013
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA
fernan1234 wrote:
He's on the Analogue payroll and Analogue is done with the Super NT already, and they'll be done with the Sg also once they've sold enough and they move on to the next shiny product.
(Yes, as I've said I'm no fan of this cash-grab company.)


This is an extremely niche company, probably funded by a very passionate rich person. They ain't exactly Apple.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:16 am 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
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Galgomite wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
This is an extremely niche company, probably funded by a very passionate rich person. They ain't exactly Apple.


Is it really that niche? This hobby is not as small as it may feel from the inside. Clone consoles sell numbers that may surprise you.

I'm just not seeing the passion, but rather a not very reassuring trend since the nt mini was purposefully buried and a very talented programmer's work became fully proprietary for the company (you bet he has to ask permission to release those jailbreaks, which could be so much more, and are already priced in). And you know, rich people don't need to do things for money, but they can still be greedy. In fact they tend to be the most greedy...


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:39 am 



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fernan1234 wrote:
Galgomite wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
This is an extremely niche company, probably funded by a very passionate rich person. They ain't exactly Apple.


Is it really that niche? This hobby is not as small as it may feel from the inside. Clone consoles sell numbers that may surprise you.

I'm just not seeing the passion, but rather a not very reassuring trend since the nt mini was purposefully buried and a very talented programmer's work became fully proprietary for the company (you bet he has to ask permission to release those jailbreaks, which could be so much more, and are already priced in). And you know, rich people don't need to do things for money, but they can still be greedy. In fact they tend to be the most greedy...

I don't believe they are leaving the small things behind as part of some evil master plan (as they still want to sell more SNTs) but because they only have a single programmer and are passionate about the big releases. I can think of a few more off the top of my head like ps1, neo geo, gba, ect but I doubt we will see a ps2, saturn, n64, or xbox fpga in the next decade so at some point they will reach the end of their list of big things to be excited about and hopefully then they will go back and do some touch up work. Like porting the nt mini cores over to a console they are currently selling, I'd be stoked if they ever offered an all in one style console but they only seem interested in selling as many clones with the same internals as possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:54 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 589
Wolf_ wrote:
I don't believe they are leaving the small things behind as part of some evil master plan (as they still want to sell more SNTs) but because they only have a single programmer and are passionate about the big releases. I can think of a few more off the top of my head like ps1, neo geo, gba, ect but I doubt we will see a ps2, saturn, n64, or xbox fpga in the next decade so at some point they will reach the end of their list of big things to be excited about and hopefully then they will go back and do some touch up work. Like porting the nt mini cores over to a console they are currently selling, I'd be stoked if they ever offered an all in one style console but they only seem interested in selling as many clones with the same internals as possible.


Hey, I won't say that wanting to maximize profits above any other goal is evil. At least it's quite normal! I'm sure they're passionate about that. The trajectory you mentioned is pretty much what I expect too, except the part about releasing the NT Mini cores for another console. No way they're ever doing that. Kevtris probably might have, but not anymore.

I was going to say if you don't have one already but really want the NT mini cores you have to pay a reseller four figures, but actually no one needs to do that anymore, thanks to the Mister.

Alright, I'm done bashing Analogue, for a good while at least :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:26 pm 



Joined: 02 Sep 2016
Posts: 147
Are there any differences between the Mega Sg and a Genesis 2 with a triple-bypass installed?

I've watched MLiG for years now but they never covered the triple-bypass (i.e. Mega Amp 2.0) so I'm still confused on the Genesis options.

For example, is a Genesis 2 with the triple bypass (Mega Amp 2.0) considered to have the best audio quality even beating the Genesis 1?


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:43 pm 



Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 152
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
sofakng wrote:
Are there any differences between the Mega Sg and a Genesis 2 with a triple-bypass installed?

I've watched MLiG for years now but they never covered the triple-bypass (i.e. Mega Amp 2.0) so I'm still confused on the Genesis options.

For example, is a Genesis 2 with the triple bypass (Mega Amp 2.0) considered to have the best audio quality even beating the Genesis 1?


Aside from the obvious (one contains real hardware and the other simulates it), it seems the two sound different and the winner is up to you.
The Triple Bypass is mentioned at 20:45 of the MLIG Mega SG video and it is considered the best "original" Genesis console by Bob from RetroRGB. Meanwhile, Gamesack notes the options the MegaSG contains to "dirty up" the audio for a more authentic feel but never goes so far as to say it sounds exactly like any other Genesis model.
The Triple Bypass would give you excellent picture, sound and compatibility while allowing for a little analog noise.
The Mega SG would give you excellent picture and sound, with no analog noise, but I wouldn't choose it if I wanted only one Genesis on my shelf since it isn't ideal for Sega CD and doesn't work with 32X.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:51 pm 


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sofakng wrote:
Are there any differences between the Mega Sg and a Genesis 2 with a triple-bypass installed?


Tons.

1. The Mega SG is a hardware simulator, the Genesis 2 is original Sega hardware.

2. The Mega SG outputs in 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p in both 50hz and 60hz, while the Genesis output in 240p 60hz.

3. The Megas SG can play Genesis, Master System, Game Gear, Sega MyCard, SG-1000 & SC-3000 games, the Genesis 2 can play Genesis and Master System games.

4. The Mega SG can do FM Sound for the Master System games that support it, the Genesis 2 can not.

5. The Mega SG output HDMI, the Genesis 2 can output in RGB and Composite.


sofakng wrote:
I've watched MLiG for years now but they never covered the triple-bypass (i.e. Mega Amp 2.0) so I'm still confused on the Genesis options.


Confused about what? In 2019 there is no reason to get a Mega Amp, just get a triple bypass, a Mega Amp is not the same as a triple bypass, a triple bypass is to improve both video and audio, a Mega Amp will only improve the audio.

A Genesis Model 1 only has 8-pin DIN, while the Genesis Model 2 has a 9 pin DIN, the Model 1 only outputs Mono sound, while the Model 2 output Stereo sound out of the box.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:49 pm 


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as criticized on the retro gaming round table, hardly any of the reviewers cared to review the Mega SG against a real high-end setup. If one already has a properly modded Mega Drive or Genesis, a db-electronic Master System adapter, a Mega Everdrive and an OSSC, then there's little reason to "upgrade" to an Analogue Mega SG. But then again simply sum up what such a setup does cost and suddenly the Mega SG looks like a bargain. Of course any beaten MD/Genesis unit plus a chinese Everdrive off eBay can be had for a fraction of the SG's price, but once you want quality, it gets much more complicated and expensive very quickly.

In terms of video quality the Mega SG is as good as it gets. Plus it solves the OSSC compatibility issues and gives you free scaling to any size or aspect ratio. For scanlines on the other hand, the OSSC wins right now, but that might be a mere FW fix on the SG's side. The SG is most likely to gain rom support, which saves you from buying an Everdrive. Unlike the SNES there aren't any special chips (except for Virtua Racing) which would still require an Everdrive.

Game Gear support is a huge plus (once it's there) and something the original MD can't offer.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:53 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
Game Gear support is a huge plus (once it's there) and something the original MD can't offer.


It's not there yet? I am pretty sure I saw a guy on youtube who reviewed the Mega SG and showed footage of the Mega SG playing the Game Gear version of Castle of Illusion.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:07 pm 



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Thanks guys for the information. I wasn't specific enough when I asked for the differences between the Mega Sg and a Genesis w/triple bypass.

I'm well aware of the majority of differences but was just wondering about the audio. The Genesis 1 and 2 used different Yamaha chips and the Mega Sg has a ton of options to tweak. My Mega Sg arrived today as well as my triple bypass (from db-electrions via Insurrection Industries). I'm more of a collector so I'm trying to collect the 'best' of every console (and the FPGA consoles are fun to play with as well).


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:07 pm 


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I *think* so far only hacked GG roms compatible with the MS are running. Real GG carts not yet. Some reviewer tried a GG hardware adapter, so obviously the software support is not there yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:16 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
I *think* so far only hacked GG roms compatible with the MS are running. Real GG carts not yet. Some reviewer tried a GG hardware adapter, so obviously the software support is not there yet.


I see, makes sense then as Castle of Illusion is one of these games (together with Rastan and a few others), who are MS/GG games, you can recognize them as their roms have are .sms instead of .gg, thanks for the info. Have you tried to run Game Gear roms off a Mega Everdrive on it?


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:56 pm 


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I tried running gg ROMs off a mega everdrive on the Mega SG. Most display a black screen and some show incorrect colors. The start button doesn't seem to work for the ones that show the wrong colors, but it does work for the .sms roms of GG games running in SMS mode. I also tried SG-1000 roms. Most work, but The Castle freezes.

Lawfer wrote:
The Mega SG can do FM Sound for the Master System games that support it, the Genesis 2 can not.


The Genesis can play FM sound using an adapter with a built in chip. The V2/X7 Mega Everdrive also has built in FM sound via FPGA. I haven't tried on a Genesis 2, but it works on the model 1 Genesis. However, it sounds a bit quieter than on a JP SMS due to the Genesis's low pass filter.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:08 pm 


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BrianC wrote:
The Genesis can play FM sound using an adapter with a built in chip. The V2/X7 Mega Everdrive also has built in FM sound via FPGA. I haven't tried on a Genesis 2, but it works on the model 1 Genesis. However, it sounds a bit quieter than on a JP SMS due to the Genesis's low pass filter.


I know, but it's not official nor is it out of the box, whereas on the Mega SG it is out of the box. Plus based on Youtube comparison video, I prefer how it sounds on the Japanese Master System.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:45 am 



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So just opened and hooked up my Mega SG; I updated the firmware first. Am I an idiot, or is there some hidden way to play ultra core. Its not like the Super NT with it just in the menu to play super turrican 2.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:18 am 



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Mine didn't show ultracore until I updated the firmware but then it shows up.


Last edited by sofakng on Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:22 am 



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KonradKlaus wrote:
So just opened and hooked up my Mega SG; I updated the firmware first. Am I an idiot, or is there some hidden way to play ultra core. Its not like the Super NT with it just in the menu to play super turrican 2.


sofakng wrote:
Strange! Mine doesn't have the option for Ultracore either. I didn't update my firmware yet though.


So I'm an idiot, I didn't have my card formatted right, so I never actually updated the firmware. So yea, Sofakng, update the firmware and you will have it. Man I feel like a dunce.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:23 am 


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Anyone have a complete list of sound settings they want to share for this thing? I've fiddled around with some of the settings recommended by a bunch of the youtubers out there, and maybe this just has to do with the nature of FM synth, but in spite of all of the crispness I find that there's just too much decay on a lot of things, like a scene will transition out and the final note will just hang there for a while instead of just cutting off instantly like I'm used to. Haven't found an effective way to dial that back just yet.
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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:57 am 


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I didn't even know this thing was so close to release (or out...I dunno).

Can someone chime in on the interpolation? Is it about the same as Super NT's? That's pretty crucial for me.

Also, from just glancing at some of the posts, there's problems with 480 scanlines?
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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:47 am 


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Fudoh wrote:
If you want proper looking scanlines you need to stick to 720p output. Otherwise use 1080p.


Is there ever going to be a method for scanlines to look as good as they do as 720p when using 1080p output?........would scanlines look more please at 4k resolutions (for future devices)?


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