UltraHDMI group-buy ROUND 7 - 2021-01-30 UPDATE

ldeveraux · Joined: 01 Mar 2018 Posts: 945

Blacksheep wrote:

citrus3000psi wrote:

Blacksheep wrote:

I hope it will be possible to turn such features off. I would prefer my console to not phone home on its own terms. To me it's annoying enough that the PS1Digital—and, by the looks of it, the N64Digital as well—phone home to a server for manually initiated firmware updates, where for example a unique serial number or hours of operation can be uploaded for analytics. It would also be nice to be able to explicitly switch the WiFi antenna off. There is simply no reason for it to be active all the time, unless the user needs that for a feature; for the PS1Digital it was planned to replace the serial port with WiFi for local multiplayer, if I remember correctly.

None of these products "phone home" You are welcome to leave the WiFi disabled, aka don't put in your SSID and do manual updates through the terminal. Or you can setup your own server and put the files there to do updates.

Auto updates will be optional.

Thank you for your feedback. Is there a guide on how to setup an own server for that? (I understand that these are some instructions for updating the PS1Digital by command-line, so would think that it may work similarly for N64Digital. That's nice.)

Users will have to trust your statement(s) on the extent to which your products phone home / upload analytics or not, as long as the firmware is closed source or not sufficiently black-box analyzed/RE'd publicly in order to tell. At least the default update process over WiFi tells your server(s) the time of access and the IP address—you cannot deny that. Even if the user does not put in an SSID, the ESP32 can sniff MAC addresses, or IEEE 802.11 beacon frames and/or probe response packets, profiling the environment of the user, and upload those at once once the ESP32 gets connected to the internet for the first time. I'm not saying that the firmware does this, I'm saying it would be possible to do. Combined with data by Google, for example collected via StreetView, this can be used to pin down your geographical location in a surprisingly accurate way. The ESP32 could also do something via Bluetooth. And what if your server(s) get compromised? Then an attacker could potentially brick all PS1/N64Digital devices, or install such a data-collecting firmware, or other things. Are the update files signed by you and are the signatures verified on the ESP32 before update? These are all questions one could worry about due to all of this connectivity. I understand it's possible to find this convenient—for me the downsides outweigh the advantages. I don't need all of that in my 90s console, I don't want to have to think about all of that stuff.

I agree with your principle; there's no reason this mod should be arbitrarily accessing your network for any reason unless explicitly allowed. But in all honesty, what do you think it's going to do with that access? Set up an illegal child porn ring in your basement? From what I can tell Dan's a little more trustworthy than that...

mikechi2 · Joined: 01 Jul 2017 Posts: 267

Quote:

Users will have to trust your statement(s) on the extent to which your products phone home / upload analytics or not, as long as the firmware is closed source or not sufficiently black-box analyzed/RE'd publicly in order to tell. At least the default update process over WiFi tells your server(s) the time of access and the IP address—you cannot deny that. Even if the user does not put in an SSID, the ESP32 can sniff MAC addresses, or IEEE 802.11 beacon frames and/or probe response packets, profiling the environment of the user, and upload those at once once the ESP32 gets connected to the internet for the first time. I'm not saying that the firmware does this, I'm saying it would be possible to do. Combined with data by Google, for example collected via StreetView, this can be used to pin down your geographical location in a surprisingly accurate way. The ESP32 could also do something via Bluetooth. And what if your server(s) get compromised? Then an attacker could potentially brick a large number of PS1/N64Digital devices, or install such a data-collecting firmware, or other things. Are the update files signed by you and are the signatures verified on the ESP32 before update? These are all questions one could worry about due to all of this connectivity. I understand it's possible to find this convenient—for me the downsides outweigh the advantages. I don't need all of that in my 90s console, I don't want to have to think about all of that stuff.

If it bothers you that much, wrapping tinfoil or some copper tape around the ESP32 module is a great solution.

Blacksheep · Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Posts: 78

ldeveraux wrote:

I agree with your principle; there's no reason this mod should be arbitrarily accessing your network for any reason unless explicitly allowed. But in all honesty, what do you think it's going to do with that access? Set up an illegal child porn ring in your basement? From what I can tell Dan's a little more trustworthy than that...

It's not that I don't trust Dan or Chriz specifically, it's just that I often don't trust info/comm technology, and don't trust that people are perfect and make no mistakes, which is just human. I'm thinking the examples I mentioned should sufficiently explain to anybody who cares about this stuff how it could be exploited (to anybody who doesn't see a problem, that's fine, then you have nothing to worry about as far as this stuff is concerned). Data/access that isn't recorded/doesn't exist in the first place can't be misused, it doesn't matter how small one estimates the chances of something like that happening to be, the fact is that my stock N64 can't talk to the world through the internet—or to other IP-enabled devices in my local net that are none of its business.

mikechi2 wrote:

If it bothers you that much, wrapping tinfoil or some copper tape around the ESP32 module is a great solution.

I might do that.

JUDS1234567 · Joined: 06 Feb 2021 Posts: 2

Sent an email for a refund a week ago, a little nervous. Have not heard anything back.

Ichinisan · **Posted:** Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:19 am

[2021-02-05]

Tracking was showing that both packages were expected to arrive before 9:00 PM. It's after 10:00 PM so I expect delivery tomorrow (Saturday 2021-02-06).

Then I will record video as I unpack and test each board. In the meantime I'll keep contacting people from the top of the list to offer DAC modules. I refunded $3,250 to dkcser (was in position #1) and absorbed the $94.55 PayPal fee. That's 25 more kits that will be reallocated.

nbd · Joined: 01 Feb 2021 Posts: 9

Has anyone put together a feature comparison between UltraHDMI and N64Digital? I'm curious about the major differences.

Jefferson · Joined: 06 Feb 2021 Posts: 12

Ichinisan wrote:

[2021-02-05]

Tracking was showing that both packages were expected to arrive before 9:00 PM. It's after 10:00 PM so I expect delivery tomorrow (Saturday 2021-02-06).

Then I will record video as I unpack and test each board. In the meantime I'll keep contacting people from the top of the list to offer DAC modules. I refunded $3,250 to dkcser (was in position #1) and absorbed the $94.55 PayPal fee. That's 25 more kits that will be reallocated.

Can you please provide some details on how you are issuing refunds? I know several of us (myself included) sent refund requests on January 30th and we haven't heard back.

PULOVR · Joined: 23 Nov 2020 Posts: 22 Location: Canada

nbd wrote:

Has anyone put together a feature comparison between UltraHDMI and N64Digital? I'm curious about the major differences.

I (and many others) want to know the cost.

Many people have asked that question on their Twitter page, and no one from their team has answered it yet. It looks like they already have working boards (as seen by the picture they posted of the menu screen), and with only two months before it's expected release, I'm sure they already have a good idea as to what they will sell it for.

Kithron · Joined: 13 Aug 2020 Posts: 6

nbd wrote:

Has anyone put together a feature comparison between UltraHDMI and N64Digital? I'm curious about the major differences.

I would like to know this as well, thinking of switching to the N64 Digital if it has wifi updates. It's something I like but like to see the full list.

CZroe · Joined: 04 Mar 2018 Posts: 141

I've got a feeling that we're about to see a lot of week-old posts from people who registered last week and had their posts delayed by the forum. Hopefully that doesn't recolor the productive discussion we've had so far by making it look like people were being ignored (they literally weren't even seen).

PULOVR wrote:

nbd wrote:

Has anyone put together a feature comparison between UltraHDMI and N64Digital? I'm curious about the major differences.

I (and many others) want to know the cost.

Many people have asked that question on their Twitter page, and no one from their team has answered it yet. It looks like they already have working boards (as seen by the picture they posted of the menu screen), and with only two months before it's expected release, I'm sure they already have a good idea as to what they will sell it for.

There are many things that can affect the cost after the hardware is finalized, like yields/failure rates. You are correct that they have an idea and a target price but I wouldn't expect an announcement until some time after they are done processing a good bit of the launch allocation to know what their true cost is going to be.

CZroe · Joined: 04 Mar 2018 Posts: 141

Jefferson wrote:

Ichinisan wrote:

[2021-02-05]

Tracking was showing that both packages were expected to arrive before 9:00 PM. It's after 10:00 PM so I expect delivery tomorrow (Saturday 2021-02-06).

Then I will record video as I unpack and test each board. In the meantime I'll keep contacting people from the top of the list to offer DAC modules. I refunded $3,250 to dkcser (was in position #1) and absorbed the $94.55 PayPal fee. That's 25 more kits that will be reallocated.

Can you please provide some details on how you are issuing refunds? I know several of us (myself included) sent refund requests on January 30th and we haven't heard back.

I haven't been involved in that process but I think he's focusing first on the people who would have gotten one of the first batch. Since they weren't aware that it was shipping when they made their request he's got to contact each to make sure they actually want to cancel knowing that their kit is shipping. Then he's got to reallocate those units to potentially more cancellations who may not know that they can get an UltraHDMI HW2 in the first batch. Thus, more back and forth with more people... and he needs to contact everyone who's getting a kit in this batch who who isn't canceling too. He should probably focus on shipping right now so we aren't left holding people kits for any longer than we have to. I wantted to test and ship the bulk of them the day we receive them which I why I took yesterday off work. Hopefully they arrive today but I will be at work and Ichinisan will be on his own.

Most we've ever tested at once was around 80 and not hundreds like this batch so no clue how long this will take for one person. If I were off then I would be doing the testing and he would be doing the packing/shipping so I know we could do the bulk in one day. Maybe I can help on my hour-long lunch break if they have even been delivered by then.

Cooperd9 · Joined: 28 Aug 2020 Posts: 37

It is good to hear there is finally progress towards getting kits to people. At this point, I would prefer the n64 digital, but I will wait until we hear back on whether Ichinisan manages to work out a way to convert group buys to that one to cancel because I would much rather avoid having to watch the page like a hawk constantly mashing F5 in the hopes I can get an order in the first batch of kits.

citrus3000psi · Joined: 25 Dec 2013 Posts: 665 Location: Indiana

nbd wrote:

Has anyone put together a feature comparison between UltraHDMI and N64Digital? I'm curious about the major differences.

The major differences are the lag and scalers used. Here is a more detailed info of what the N64D will be able to do at launch.

https://www.pixelfx.co/content/roadmap.html

PULOVR wrote:

I (and many others) want to know the cost.

Many people have asked that question on their Twitter page, and no one from their team has answered it yet. It looks like they already have working boards (as seen by the picture they posted of the menu screen), and with only two months before it's expected release, I'm sure they already have a good idea as to what they will sell it for.

The sale price will be 160. We actually lowered the hardware cost vs PS1D but the added DAC and filter pushed it right back up.

nbd · Joined: 01 Feb 2021 Posts: 9

Interesting about the lag and scalers. Those are the things I'm most concerned about, as price is reasonable and kind of a lesser issue for me.

So you think the lag will be lower in N64Digital? Be very curious to see a side-by-side video comparison, but that likely won't happen for a while after N64Digital launches and I hope to be in the first wave so I'll just have to decide on the basis of the feature list.

Thanks!

flipsideaut · Joined: 12 Nov 2020 Posts: 10

I just counted as i was interested how many kits are before my kit in the list.

until Line 108 there are 215 kits ordered and Line 109 is Retro-HDMI which ordered 100 kits.
So if there are 80+150 kits available, it would mean that Retro-HDMI will get 15 of the 100 ordered kits - if the List is handled from top to down (not calculated the inquire date). This means i have to wait for another batch of at least 336 units (im Nr 260 in the list).
I was just countin out loud here, maybe it helps some others in the list, just to know where we are standing and what i have to tell my son =)

At least there is progress now it seems, cant wait to hold "the kit" in my hands sometime.

Dont give up Itchinisan! =)

darcagn · Joined: 04 Mar 2008 Posts: 601

Blacksheep wrote:

ldeveraux wrote:

I agree with your principle; there's no reason this mod should be arbitrarily accessing your network for any reason unless explicitly allowed. But in all honesty, what do you think it's going to do with that access? Set up an illegal child porn ring in your basement? From what I can tell Dan's a little more trustworthy than that...

It's not that I don't trust Dan or Chriz specifically, it's just that I often don't trust info/comm technology, and don't trust that people are perfect and make no mistakes, which is just human. I'm thinking the examples I mentioned should sufficiently explain to anybody who cares about this stuff how it could be exploited (to anybody who doesn't see a problem, that's fine, then you have nothing to worry about as far as this stuff is concerned). Data/access that isn't recorded/doesn't exist in the first place can't be misused, it doesn't matter how small one estimates the chances of something like that happening to be, the fact is that my stock N64 can't talk to the world through the internet—or to other IP-enabled devices in my local net that are none of its business.

mikechi2 wrote:

If it bothers you that much, wrapping tinfoil or some copper tape around the ESP32 module is a great solution.

I might do that.

I'm extremely security and privacy conscious to the point that I roll my own services at home for things most people would laugh at.

There's literally nothing more that Dan and Chris could do to make this a better experience in that regard for their DCDigital, PS1Digital, etc. products.

1. You don't need to run updates if you don't want to
2. You don't have to connect to a network if you don't want to
3. You don't have to connect the antenna if you don't want to
4. You can specify the exact address of the update server so if you want to run a 3rd party update server, you can
5. You can manually download the file over a secure connection and upload updates yourself

I don't know what more you could want.

nbd · Joined: 01 Feb 2021 Posts: 9

darcagn wrote:

I don't know what more you could want.

I plan on running mine inside an anechoic home theater chamber at the bottom of my air gapped underground bunker, which is in turn encased in a 6,000 sqft rebar faraday cage, located in an undisclosed location outside the range of traditional wireless communications networks. My solar array is randomized across a three mile radius grid with buried power lines arranged in redundant loops to obfuscate the entrance.

I'm fairly confident the N64Digital won't be able to dial home, but I will likely not attach the antenna just in case.

citrus3000psi · Joined: 25 Dec 2013 Posts: 665 Location: Indiana

nbd wrote:

Interesting about the lag and scalers. Those are the things I'm most concerned about, as price is reasonable and kind of a lesser issue for me.

So you think the lag will be lower in N64Digital? Be very curious to see a side-by-side video comparison, but that likely won't happen for a while after N64Digital launches and I hope to be in the first wave so I'll just have to decide on the basis of the feature list.

Thanks!

Yes the lag will be lower in the N64D. UH in direct mode (480p) is pretty low (No idea how many lines buffered) but all other modes will have least a full frame buffered. The N64D will have the same lag in all modes ~20 lines buffered(1-2ms), it has the same clockgen found PS1D that allows this to be possible.

The scaler will also allow for cropping and zooming of the image, we are also playing around with custom resolutions that the user can input.

Most of these questions should prolly be moved to the N64Digital thread, don't want to gum up this thread with non relevant stuff.

Blacksheep · Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Posts: 78

darcagn wrote:

I'm extremely security and privacy conscious to the point that I roll my own services at home for things most people would laugh at.

There's literally nothing more that Dan and Chris could do to make this a better experience in that regard for their DCDigital, PS1Digital, etc. products.

...

I don't know what more you could want.

I wasn't fully aware of all the options when I wrote the first post—I mainly just wanted the point to be raised. I think I'll manage.

darcagn wrote:

1. You don't need to run updates if you don't want to

That's kind of a non-argument. =) Being able to update is very important. "Well, you know... just don't update then. Or, you know... just don't buy/use the product then." You can apply that kinda thought-terminating cliché to everything. The point has been raised, some awareness; let's hope it was constructive in some way not just for me. If there wouldn't have been a modicum of hope to change at least some little thing, it wouldn't have made sense for me to post it in the first place.

darcagn wrote:

2. You don't have to connect to a network if you don't want to

No, but I can't (easily) see or control what the WiFi on the ESP32 does/to which networks it connects. Could for example connect without user action to open networks; see my 2nd post. I don't have to put in an SSID, but I may want to use WiFi sometime, and another time I don't, so it would still be nice if there could be an explicit on/off switch, kind of like airplane mode on smartphones. Of course I would have to trust such a software switch, then, but it would be a plus.

darcagn wrote:

3. You don't have to connect the antenna if you don't want to

nbd wrote:

I'm fairly confident the N64Digital won't be able to dial home, but I will likely not attach the antenna just in case.

The antenna is always connected to the ESP. You would have to break the PCB to remove it. And even then, the ESP might still have WiFi connectivity, albeit with worse signal quality of course. Mike Chi's advice is better. I highlighted the antenna here:

Spoiler: show

RocketBelt · Joined: 18 Sep 2014 Posts: 181

nbd wrote:

darcagn wrote:

I don't know what more you could want.

I plan on running mine inside an anechoic home theater chamber at the bottom of my air gapped underground bunker, which is in turn encased in a 6,000 sqft rebar faraday cage, located in an undisclosed location outside the range of traditional wireless communications networks. My solar array is randomized across a three mile radius grid with buried power lines arranged in redundant loops to obfuscate the entrance.

I'm fairly confident the N64Digital won't be able to dial home, but I will likely not attach the antenna just in case.

Sensible precautions. If someone found out you were playing Donkey Kong 64 that would constitute a serious security breach.

TickleMyElmo · **Posted:** Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:28 pm

flipsideaut wrote:

I just counted as i was interested how many kits are before my kit in the list.

until Line 108 there are 215 kits ordered and Line 109 is Retro-HDMI which ordered 100 kits.
So if there are 80+150 kits available, it would mean that Retro-HDMI will get 15 of the 100 ordered kits - if the List is handled from top to down (not calculated the inquire date). This means i have to wait for another batch of at least 336 units (im Nr 260 in the list).
I was just countin out loud here, maybe it helps some others in the list, just to know where we are standing and what i have to tell my son =)

At least there is progress now it seems, cant wait to hold "the kit" in my hands sometime.

Dont give up Itchinisan! =)

Thats depressing im around 330 or so i think , and even then it seems like i wont get mine cuz of a**hole middle men resellers, this is a group buy and usually that means its for people like me or you who ordered a single unit in my case with the install and all because i dont want to pay 1000$ on ebay or some other a-hole reseller why are they even allowed to be in this group buy its actually the stupidest thing ive ever seen involving this kind of thing. I was happy at first to heard that a reseller was going to cancel his 25 unit order but didnt know this other a-hole 100 fucking units ... what a douche bag

darkghost · Joined: 11 Nov 2020 Posts: 9

TickleMyElmo wrote:

Thats depressing im around 330 or so i think , and even then it seems like i wont get mine cuz of a**hole middle men resellers, this is a group buy and usually that means its for people like me or you who ordered a single unit in my case with the install and all because i dont want to pay 1000$ on ebay or some other a-hole reseller why are they even allowed to be in this group buy its actually the stupidest thing ive ever seen involving this kind of thing. I was happy at first to heard that a reseller was going to cancel his 25 unit order but didnt know this other a-hole 100 fucking units ... what a douche bag

You’re a douchebag. You don’t know their intent. They may be installers like Ichinisan getting kits to others, but they don’t have a connection to Marshal and use this as a means. They’ve been waiting much longer than most of us. You’ll get yours. Go play an emulator in the mean time.

CZroe · Joined: 04 Mar 2018 Posts: 141

I haven't caught up on the thread yet but this must be what a panic-attack feels like. Honestly, I thought it was a heart attack at first.

Many of you saw Voultar's tweet an hour ago. Voultar must not have been aware that UltraHDMI HW2 was already shipping when he called this Group Buy a "pipe dream" and, on that premise, told people to "DROP OUT OF THAT RIGHT NOW." Let me be clear:
UltraHDMI HW2 is here RIGHT NOW. Too late for many, but definitely NOT a pipe dream.

Full Rez

Video of both deliveries happening TODAY:
https://i.imgur.com/gX2yAuk.mp4
https://imgur.com/a/CLAi6r3

Tracking numbers:
9210890221582700396059
From January 28th
(check history)

9210890221582700399975
From February 1st

Also, remember that we are trying to pivot to N64Digital for those who are willing to wait for that (some time in April for the first batch). Please thank Dan and Co (PixelFX) for being able to allocate some for us (more on that later). In the mean time there are also 400 more UltraHDMI HW2 boards produced and waiting for FFCs from Korea.

THIS IS HAPPENING! Too late for many, but definitely not a pipe dream.

I just got off of work and plan to spend the rest of the night testing all 230 kits (or as many as we can in one night) so that we can start shipping as soon as the post office is open.

dryja123 · Joined: 21 Jun 2020 Posts: 33

You and your brother have been pretty great with the group buy. James was always very responsive to my emails and super friendly. It’s crap what Marshall did you guy guys; keeping you in the dark and dragging his feet when there’s literally over $100k on the line.

Unfortunately, it’s too little too late on this. Dan, and team, have a long established track history of releasing mature products frequently.

The only way I’d consider an Ultra-HDMI at this point is if it was further discounted. I’m not going to pay the similar price that’s going to be less feature rich and the creator doesn’t give a damn about being their for the community. Every time I’ve emailed Dan with a question he’s responded in literal minutes. The dude is a legend.

Sorry, Marshall, you had a great product and you had an opportunity to capitalize on it. There’s a new dog in town, and it has teeth.

Landspeeder95 · Joined: 10 Jun 2020 Posts: 7

Kindly rotate me to the N64Digital.
Best!

Ichinisan · **Posted:** Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:55 am

[2021-02-07]

230 UltraHDMI HW2 kits finally arrived today!

I'll be busy getting these tested and shipped out. I've processed a few more refunds and I'll keep going through those as I can. Right now I don't want to make people wait any longer for these.

JUDS1234567 · Joined: 06 Feb 2021 Posts: 2

Want to Vouche for James Turner,

Solid trustworthy guy, spoke to him and he got my issue fixed. I feel bad he has to put up with circumstances beyond his control.

Kithron · Joined: 13 Aug 2020 Posts: 6

I would like to be switched over to N64 Digital if it can be done.

Max_P0 · Joined: 21 Jan 2020 Posts: 12

Had no idea about another solution but I got tired of waiting and sent in a refund/pre-order cancel request on January 30.

Still have not heard anything. Email is (moeeed@live.com)

Cooperd9 · Joined: 28 Aug 2020 Posts: 37

Max_P0 wrote:

Had no idea about another solution but I got tired of waiting and sent in a refund/pre-order cancel request on January 30.

Still have not heard anything. Email is (moeeed@live.com)

They are most likely prioritizing the people who were early on the list, they have hundreds of kits to get sent out and tons of people who want to cancel all at once, and there is only one person regularly dealing with the emails. They have to contact each person on the wait list in order to confirm that the addresses are correct and they still want the kits, and then if they cancel they will have to contact new people on the list. I was around #700 on the list before the n64 digital was announced, I am now down to the mid 300s. Several other people have confirmed their cancellations have gone through, there is just a lot of emails for one person to handle.

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UltraHDMI group-buy ROUND 7 - 2021-01-30 UPDATE

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