Would the XRGB-3 + DVDO VP30 be good for PSP/PS2-era games?

[tongshadow]

Managed to find another rare video upscaler, the Micomsoft XRGB-3, for a pretty decent price.

How does it hold up to modern/vintage gaming on an HDTV?
I like my VP30 but the ringing is pretty noticeable and I prefer sharper visuals. So, how would the combination between those two devices fare?

My main consoles are the PS2, Xbox, 360 and PS3, and PSP.

Thanks in advance!

[FinalBaton]

The XRGB-3 by itself is actually great for PSP. One of the best solutions there is. Don't even need to hook up the DVDO after it

As for PS2 : I don't remember where these machines rank exactly. All I remember off the the top of my head is that Framemeister is king of the hill. Someone else will answer that part I'm sure

[Steamflogger Boss]

The XRGB-3 by itself is actually great for PSP. One of the best solutions there is. Don't even need to hook up the DVDO after it

As for PSP : I don't remember where these machines rank exactly. All I remember off the the top of my head is that Framemeister is king of the hill. Someone else will answer that part I'm sure

Did you mean PS2 in your first line?

[FinalBaton]

Did you mean PS2 in your first line?

I actually meant PS2 in the second line. Oops! Corrected it

[nmalinoski]

As for PS2 : I don't remember where these machines rank exactly. All I remember off the the top of my head is that Framemeister is king of the hill. Someone else will answer that part I'm sure

For most of the PS2's library, which is 480i, my understanding is that the Framemeister does a great job with deinterlacing and upscaling; but it's not as good with 480p--not bad, just satisfactory.

The OSSC can only do bob deinterlacing, which doesn't really look good, but it's cheap and doesn't add any lag.

[tongshadow]

My VP30 is already godlike for 480i content, the virtually lagless deinterlacing is a must for some games and not even the framemeister is faster. But image quality suffers, the VP30 cant handle SD content that nicely, ringing is pretty visible when upscaled to 1080p.

I was thinking about setting the XRGB-3 to double line mode into the VP30, since my setup's sound system is outputted by the VP30, so I can get the best of both worlds, low lag and amazing upscaled SD content.

As a nice bonus, the XRGB-3 also does SCAAAAAAANLINES, right?

[Fudoh]

You can do that. The XRGB-3 can be tricky to handle though depending on your sources. It's not easy to "understand" the processor (for example the fact that different inputs have different quality for the same signals). For PSP you want the XRGB-3 to perform scaling (so it needs to be on the B0 firmware bank). For 240p sources you want to use the B1 bank instead which gives you lagfree linedoubled output. Problem is that B1 works with VGA output only, while you might prefer B0 with DVI for 1080p output from a PSP.

[SGGG2]

I am a huge fan of the XRGB3's digital B0 mode! It's super sharp and scales perfectly with 240p content. PS2 480p was a mixed bag, results varied per title. Some games, like Sonic Riders and Gradius V looked amazing. Just be aware that the scaling isn't the greatest, the XRGB doubles lines here and there and the results can sometimes be quite noticeable depending on the title. 480i with B0 is pretty bad.

I was pretty happy with 480i for fast action 3D titles on the XRGB's B1 mode. It does a decent job at 480i emulation using line doubling and alternating scanlines. This rendering method has a crude "anti aliasing" effect and qualifies as the best solution for these types of games outside of using a CRT IMO.

Just be aware that you can't have both VGA and DVI cables connected to the XRGB's output at the same time. Switching firmware banks means switching cables as well.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Did you mean PS2 in your first line?

I actually meant PS2 in the second line. Oops! Corrected it

Ah that makes more sense.

My VP30 is already godlike for 480i content, the virtually lagless deinterlacing is a must for some games and not even the framemeister is faster. But image quality suffers, the VP30 cant handle SD content that nicely, ringing is pretty visible when upscaled to 1080p.

I was thinking about setting the XRGB-3 to double line mode into the VP30, since my setup's sound system is outputted by the VP30, so I can get the best of both worlds, low lag and amazing upscaled SD content.

Lumagen has what you crave.

[orange808]

If you want to line double (bob deinterlace) 480i with the OSSC, I posted some timings somewhere on here to line double 480i to SXGA. The vp30 can handle SXGA input just fine. That will get you more color resolution when you upscale to 1080p.

OSSC 240px4 and 480ix4 to SXGA (for iScan vp20, 30, 50, 50pro)
H.samplerate=858
H.synclen=62
H.backporch=107
H.active=640
V.synclen=3
V.backporch=2
V.active=256

[tongshadow]

Ok I think I'm about to get this deal, apparently it works as a good all-around solution for older and newer consoles alike.

So the setup would be something like: console> XRGB-3@B1 mode (VGA output)> VP30 (HDMI)> TV

B1 mode should be around 2ms lag, and VP30 is 6ms with progressive sources, so the total (excluding my low-lag 10ms display), should be 8ms + better and superior SD/240p handling. Not bad I'd say!

Only issue right now would be getting D-Terminal component cables, but nothing my soldering skills cant solve

Lumagen has what you crave.

Input delay is an issue though, not to mention they're rare. Which Lumagen are you refering to?


Also, how would I go on about getting scanlines from my xbox 360? I play many shmups there and I think the scanlines would look great.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Yeah I just meant with the no ring scaling if you need that. Depends what you want to use it for. The newer the better for the most part there too. I have a vision pro but I need to calibrate it but I need to get around to ordering a remote to make that easier.

[tongshadow]

Ok after reading the wiki it seems like getting scalines from a 360 might not be possible, unless I output 480i from it

Anyways, just ordered the XRGB3 and it should arrive this weekend! I hope it can somehow improve my current setups, because I know it's already pretty godlike for 240p sources and Im planning on getting retro consoles in the future.

[tongshadow]

Ok just got it and tested it on my PS2.

Needless to say, 240p games look impressive and lagless in B1 mode, but I only tested Megaman X collection and the original X4 for PS1. I still need actual real hardware like a SNES, but Im sure it will perform just as nicely.

One thing that I didnt expect was how decent scaling mode (B0 mode) actually is! I'd say it looks better than my DVDO VP30, the pixels are sharper and massive ringing isnt an issue like it is on my VP30.
PSP games also look amazing, even when they're zoomed in no weird artifacts or ringing can be seen.

So far, using my PS2 and the XRGB-3 directly connected to my display through VGA/DB15 produces the best results imo, and B1 mode can even be used to reduce input lag even more. Had no luck with DVI or DVI->HDMI cables so far, but this machine is pretty tricky so maybe I didnt do something right. Also, I heard it's possible to use B1 mode with a DVI->HDMI cable.

Many reviews said that scaling mode is pretty bad, which is why I got surprised. Maybe it has to do with the recent firmwares updates?

Oh well, I'm very satisfied anyways!

[tongshadow]

Ok, more impressions. I tested the XRGB-3 on my PS2 and Xbox, mainly, and I realized there's not really a point in chaining it into the VP30. So, let's start with the Xbox.

Xbox

This machine really is quite sensitive to noise, I used a component cable on my Xbox, that was made from a 360 but lacked the capacitor thing at the end, and some sort of pink pattern crossing the screen was really really visible in dark parts. Pretty bad! And yes, I use the D1 Input, which supposedly has less noise than the other component inputs.

Luckily, I also had a spare component cable, also made from a 360 and by me, and that issue was resolved. Low Pass Filter was disabled but since the Xbox outputs in 480p, it just looks horrible with LPF on. It's also worth mentioning that I used B1 mode, so yes, I'm using it as a 300$ component-> VGA transcoder. However, it look waaaaaaaay better than on my VP30.

The VP30 just washes out the colors and ringing really is visible, not good at all. So since it looks better on the XRGB3 in B1/transcoder mode, I can safely assume that my TV (Benq RL2755HM) handles 480p perfectly well.

PS2

240p games on the PS2 (megaman X collection, disgaea 1) and PS1 games are handled perfectly, it just looks incredible, even though my TV still has to scale 480p (from double lined 240p) it doesnt hurt the image in the slightest. Scanlines also look great, specially on 2D/sprite based games, very visible even after being scaled. I wish I could test more PS1 games but my PS2's laser has just died, but I'm replacing it pretty soon.

480i was... ok I'd say. I'm aware it uses bob deinterlacing and the picture flickers, but I noticed that the flicker is waaay less noticeable on my VP30. Deinterlacing in Game mode 2 on the VP30 is still the best, I dont think there's anything better and as fast as the VP30 for 480i.

Input delay is non-existent (2ms), but compared to the VP30 in GM1 (which is like 6~7ms), are you really going to notice a 4ms difference? And the picture looks better on the VP30 anyways, so maybe it doesnt make sense to use 480i on the XRGB3?

480p is just like on the Xbox, transcoded into VGA and handled nicely by my monitor. Noise is there but it's not that noticeable on actual gameplay or dark parts (using official sony ps3 component cables btw).


B0 mode (scaling) is horrible, I realized it after comparing directly to my VP30. It's only useful for the PSP to be honest.

So, to summarize everything

PS2:

• 240P- XRGB3
• 480i - VP30
• 480P - XRGB3

Xbox:

• 480P - XRGB3

But you all already knew that right? Just felt like sharing my personal impressions and maybe it's gonna help someone someday, so I thought it was worth writting