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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:59 pm 



Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 11
Well it turns out the cs-2205a I bought on ebay doesnt work so I have to return it unless its something easy to fix


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:08 pm 



Joined: 09 May 2020
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Unseen wrote:
emenelopee wrote:
How does the Corio2 output deal with composite sync when there is no csync pin on DVI?

Probably the same way everything else deals with CSync when there are separate HSync and VSync pins: Use HSync.


Yeah, that's what I was figuring - I don't yet have the JVC SCART input yet, it's been stuck in NZ for over a month now, so I can't play around with getting the right cabling. Just getting prepared in the meantime with what info I can glean but I guess I'll have to wait until it's here before confirming 100%.

kerryking wrote:
Well it turns out the cs-2205a I bought on ebay doesnt work so I have to return it unless its something easy to fix


Sad song. My ebay 750 came in a crushed box rattling around with deflated air bags. Bad packing from the seller, could have been a sad song on my end too. Seems to work OK with menus and output into computer monitors so hopefully nothing busted in the guts, we'll have to wait and see...


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:45 am 



Joined: 27 Jul 2009
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It seems like it was packed fine it just wont power on.


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:33 am 


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kerryking wrote:
It seems like it was packed fine it just wont power on.


Make sure to try another power supply before you give up. My TVOne OE power brick went dead and I had to replace it.

The unit and power supply arrived brand new (sealed in the box) when I got it a couple years ago, so they might not be very dependable power supplies.
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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:24 pm 


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https://www.ebay.com/itm/TV-One-1T-C2-2 ... 3853881010

^ This one's got RGB in/RGB out, pretty cheap too! Anyone tried this model?
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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:02 pm 


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kitty666cats wrote:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TV-One-1T-C2-200-S-Video-Scaler-up-to-1080p/153853881010

^ This one's got RGB in/RGB out, pretty cheap too! Anyone tried this model?


I don't own one, but it appears to be a 400 with composite and svideo inputs. It's an upscaler machine, so it should work fine.
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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:57 am 


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orange808 wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TV-One-1T-C2-200-S-Video-Scaler-up-to-1080p/153853881010

^ This one's got RGB in/RGB out, pretty cheap too! Anyone tried this model?


I don't own one, but it appears to be a 400 with composite and svideo inputs. It's an upscaler machine, so it should work fine.


Mm, I've got a modded GBS so I don't need it. The person's got a suspiciously low rating @_@

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vine-Micros-CO ... 4057818183

Always been curious about the OG Corio technology, used in these. They accept 15kHz in as well as out, I know someone on Discord who tried one of these per my suggestion when looking for a cheap scan converter - loved it! No clue about 240p though... kinda doubt it.
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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:31 am 



Joined: 23 Jun 2020
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DatMonkey wrote:
Thanks for your reply, and GOOD NEWS! I bought a new USB-RS232-cable and also contacted TVOne for extra help regarding settings of the RS232-port. I then managed to successfully flash new firmware so now the unit is working! I would still advise you to insert a disclaimer on the tutorial about firmware upgrade though.


I had same problem
I tried to update my c2-750 firmware via rs232 usb cable(340chip).
but it failed and show error 9001.
I performed it again and again, it always stop that 8% progress.
scaler got bricked and no LED works.
but works get ID command at firmware tool and able to try firmware update.
if I change cable with using another chipset(ex FTDI, 2303), is it will works?


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:46 am 



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A little multi-stage and perhaps off-topic question on downscaling from HDMI into multi-format monitors through corio2. Assume 800 TVL say DT-V1710CG. My assumptions, are they correct?:

240p - s u p e r s e p a r a t i o n scanlines? I imagine would be 1 line on, 3 lines off. Or do they double up to look like SD CRTs with 2 on 2 off?
480p - regular separation scanlines? Or tighter bunching than SD CRTs? i'm imagining 2 lines on, 2 lines off.
576p - I don't even know v :? v
720p - same as the 240p image with narrow separation lines? So 3 lines on 1 line off?

I have a multi-format CRT on its way which I will test out as best as I can, but I'd like to get a check on what I should expect. Am I off on how to visualize the rendering? Or am I stuck with s u p e r s e p a r a t i o n scanlines with any 240p content?


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:09 am 


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kitty666cats wrote:
Mm, I've got a modded GBS so I don't need it. The person's got a suspiciously low rating @_@

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vine-Micros-CO ... 4057818183

Always been curious about the OG Corio technology, used in these. They accept 15kHz in as well as out, I know someone on Discord who tried one of these per my suggestion when looking for a cheap scan converter - loved it! No clue about 240p though... kinda doubt it.


i don't even care about 240p, i'm just trying to get something that converts VGA 31khz to component video, and that configuring the picture is not a huge undertaking. My concern would be that the device is well over 20 years old at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:16 am 



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emenelopee wrote:
A little multi-stage and perhaps off-topic question on downscaling from HDMI into multi-format monitors through corio2. Assume 800 TVL say DT-V1710CG. My assumptions, are they correct?:

240p - s u p e r s e p a r a t i o n scanlines? I imagine would be 1 line on, 3 lines off. Or do they double up to look like SD CRTs with 2 on 2 off?
480p - regular separation scanlines? Or tighter bunching than SD CRTs? i'm imagining 2 lines on, 2 lines off.
576p - I don't even know v :? v
720p - same as the 240p image with narrow separation lines? So 3 lines on 1 line off?

I have a multi-format CRT on its way which I will test out as best as I can, but I'd like to get a check on what I should expect. Am I off on how to visualize the rendering? Or am I stuck with s u p e r s e p a r a t i o n scanlines with any 240p content?


I think what you're confusing CRT's with how LED/LCD's work. On a LED/LCD there's a set number of horizontal rows which can NOT change no matter what. On a CRT there are no rows - it's completely flexible. There is no '2 on 2 off' or '3 lines on 1 line off' like you describe. It can display 240 lines (with a gap between each line, colloquially known as scanlines) for 240p. The multiformat and the consumer SD set will display 240p the same exact way, but the multiformat will be sharper which can make the black scanlines look more pronounced.

You can see some super thin lines on 480p if the set is sharp enough, but those will kinda disappear as soon as you're a couple feet away (especially on a smaller 17" set). 720p they disappear even more until they're basically really not even there.


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:13 am 



Joined: 09 May 2020
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Dochartaigh wrote:
emenelopee wrote:
A little multi-stage and perhaps off-topic question on downscaling from HDMI into multi-format monitors through corio2. Assume 800 TVL say DT-V1710CG. My assumptions, are they correct?:

240p - s u p e r s e p a r a t i o n scanlines? I imagine would be 1 line on, 3 lines off. Or do they double up to look like SD CRTs with 2 on 2 off?
480p - regular separation scanlines? Or tighter bunching than SD CRTs? i'm imagining 2 lines on, 2 lines off.
576p - I don't even know v :? v
720p - same as the 240p image with narrow separation lines? So 3 lines on 1 line off?

I have a multi-format CRT on its way which I will test out as best as I can, but I'd like to get a check on what I should expect. Am I off on how to visualize the rendering? Or am I stuck with s u p e r s e p a r a t i o n scanlines with any 240p content?


I think what you're confusing CRT's with how LED/LCD's work. On a LED/LCD there's a set number of horizontal rows which can NOT change no matter what. On a CRT there are no rows - it's completely flexible. There is no '2 on 2 off' or '3 lines on 1 line off' like you describe. It can display 240 lines (with a gap between each line, colloquially known as scanlines) for 240p. The multiformat and the consumer SD set will display 240p the same exact way, but the multiformat will be sharper which can make the black scanlines look more pronounced.

You can see some super thin lines on 480p if the set is sharp enough, but those will kinda disappear as soon as you're a couple feet away (especially on a smaller 17" set). 720p they disappear even more until they're basically really not even there.


I'm pretty au fait with how CRTs and fixed resolution differ, my question is more on the thickness of the beam itself. Standard resolution 480i drops every other line to create 240p, so that's 1 line on 1 line off, creating the "scanline" effect: the thickness of the lines/ beam is set so there's no overlap in peak def. so "scanlines" are min. 1 line thick.

On a high-def CRT, I assume the beam is thinner/ more focused/ sharp to fit more horizontal lines without overlap at 1080i. Does the beam become thicker at low res to compensate for the fewer horizontal lines, or are they set forever at the narrow beam making the gaps e x t r a t h i c k? Or do they double- or triple-up to compensate for the narrower beam?

EDIT 1: from what you're saying there is no compensation for lower res: the beam doesn't get fatter, and always takes a single pass per line, so 240p has h u g e gaps between narrow beams. Line double- or triple- would literally need a 480p or 720p signal, the crt won't do it itself.

So corollary question: is the HD beam narrower by 3x compared with SD? Otherwise the lines would overlap at peak resolution.

EDIT 2: So I guess the more general question is: does anyone use Corio2 to downscale to 480p or 720p from HDMI? Are these effects similar to HDMI-to-240p downscale or is it different? Again, specific to HD CRTs.


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:13 pm 



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emenelopee wrote:
On a high-def CRT, I assume the beam is thinner/ more focused/ sharp to fit more horizontal lines without overlap at 1080i. Does the beam become thicker at low res to compensate for the fewer horizontal lines, or are they set forever at the narrow beam making the gaps e x t r a t h i c k? Or do they double- or triple-up to compensate for the narrower beam?


Seems like you might still thinking of CRT's in terms of LCD/LED's, since the latter has a fixed height of each individual horizontal row, and it sounds like you're thinking that a CRT would have a fixed height of each row as well, which isn't the case at all. Also sounds like you're equating how a LCD/LED would line-double or line-triple a lower resolution to upscale it... which doesn't happen on a CRT at all (even a multiformat), each row is still a single row, no doubling or tripling as the beam itself can vary in thickness.

Just because a CRT is capable of higher-def resolutions, that changes nothing on a multiformat when it's displaying the lower SD resolutions (thus why it's called "multiformat" and capable of displaying multi/many resolutions, natively!!!). 240p and 480i content on a multiformat can look EXACTLY like it does on a SD, non-high-def, CRT. Exactly like the 240p example photos I pictured on the initial post here (which are taken from CRT's). There's tons more pictures, videos, of all different resolutions on a CRT if you want to take a look at some pictures on google or videos on YouTube.


Last edited by Dochartaigh on Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:43 pm 



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Did anyone test the c2-2250a? I was talking to a guy from tvone and he told me it can only upscale not downscale.

In the C2-2000 series, all processors with a C2-21XX part number were down converters, and all those with a C2-22XX part number were up converters. The remaining two digits in the part number referred to additional features in both cases. While the C2-2100's, C2-2200's and C2-2300's (which could either up or down convert, depending on need) are discontinued, the C2-2655, C2-2755 and C2-2855 are capable of the same functionality as the original units: 2655 down-scales, 2755 up-scales, and 2855 can do either one. No, the C2-2200's could not output standard definition; only the C2-2100's or a properly-configured C2-2300's unit could output standard definition.


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:25 pm 



Joined: 09 May 2020
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Dochartaigh wrote:
emenelopee wrote:
TEXT

TEXT


I think we are talking across each other. Best I have is this snippet (watch up to 10:37 for the final comparison) which notes gaps between interlaced fields when viewing 480i on a multiformat. Again it's the size of the beam which appears to be smaller for HD screens vs SD screens so you get "scanlines" even on a 480i signal: the beam is so narrow there will always be gaps unless you go to the full resolution. Therefore a 240p on a multiformat would have the widest "scanlines" possible. I'll see for myself in a few days when my multiformat gets to me.

So, with that hopefully covered, has anyone tried the Corio2 downscale to 480p or higher from HDMI? Does it double up the lines that you would have on 240p, how does it handle 1080i to 720p with SD content?


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:23 am 


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These machines are really only useful for outputting an even "division" of the input active lines. It seems to combine or average lines, but the results are quite good.

OSSC Pro is going to make the C2 obsolete for most people.

If you are getting a good useful output, then source lines modulo output lines is zero. There's also the ability to manipulate field offsets, but almost every 480i source uses a flicker filter, so that's of limited practical use.

The upscaling is difficult to use. The deinterlacing isn't any good.

If you want to deinterlace broadcast 1080i, you're better off looking elsewhere. I have no idea what people do with video games at 1080i. I always choose progressive signals when available. 1080i sucks and I wish it didn't exist--although I understand why broadcasters and service providers wanted it. There's a thread somewhere about 1080i, but I ignored it because I don't care.

I have never needed to downscale 960p to 480p, but the C2 should handle the job fine.
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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:06 am 



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So the ossc pro will be able to downscale? Can it do 480i?


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:04 am 



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orange808 wrote:
These machines are really only useful for outputting an even "division" of the input active lines. It seems to combine or average lines, but the results are quite good.

OSSC Pro is going to make the C2 obsolete for most people.

If you are getting a good useful output, then source lines modulo output lines is zero. There's also the ability to manipulate field offsets, but almost every 480i source uses a flicker filter, so that's of limited practical use.

The upscaling is difficult to use. The deinterlacing isn't any good.

If you want to deinterlace broadcast 1080i, you're better off looking elsewhere. I have no idea what people do with video games at 1080i. I always choose progressive signals when available. 1080i sucks and I wish it didn't exist--although I understand why broadcasters and service providers wanted it. There's a thread somewhere about 1080i, but I ignored it because I don't care.

I have never needed to downscale 960p to 480p, but the C2 should handle the job fine.


Great response! Interesting to hear about even division, so like I thought, input 1080i into Corio2 and output at 540p into HD is equivalent to 480i into Corio2 and output 240p into SD: same 1:1 light to dark width ratio (50% CRT or whatever the overlay filters call it).

My main use, as planned anyway, is to take CPS2 HDMI mod and MiSTer HDMI/VGA out into a multiformat, and all future projects to include an HDMI mod. I'm not too keen on the 1:1 scanline to draw line of my SD CRT through superguns, image is too dark even at 100% brightness, so I'm hoping to get a softer scanline effect by judicious downscaling, ideally through a Corio2. And so here I am at this thread! If my target into the multiformat is 720p, it's probably best to avoid the Corio2 unless it can downscale to a decent 720p, otherwise i need to directly tweak the source output.

ASIDE: unless this has been done before, or I've totally bodged the logic, I'll see about a 1:1 comparison of SD and HD displays (JVC TM-H vs JVC DT-V) with pass-through from to see what exactly happens at what resolution. If it's been done before, does anyone have a link?


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:43 am 


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Emenelopee, I get what you mean, but feeding line-doubled or tripled 240p to a 240p-compatible broadcast monitor makes little sense, especially if you're resorting to external devices that add lag. If you don't like thick scanlines but want to play on a CRT I'd recommend getting a PC CRT (and an OSSC). They are cheaper than broadcast monitors (since they don't do 240p) and tend to be more compatible with oddball resolutions so you can easily manage your scanlines-to-blanklines ratio by feeding them something like 720p w/ 33% scanlines (approximate 2:1 scanlines/blanklines ratio) or 960p w/ 50% scanlines (approximate 1:1 ratio, but with likely higher brightness than on a comparable, high TVL broadcast monitor due to the beam drawing double the active lines than on 240p).

Quote:
ASIDE: unless this has been done before, or I've totally bodged the logic, I'll see about a 1:1 comparison of SD and HD displays (JVC TM-H vs JVC DT-V) with pass-through from to see what exactly happens at what resolution. If it's been done before, does anyone have a link?

There used to be screenshots of JVC monitors on the relevant thread, but they're probably down now. Here's a crap comparison.

Close-ups of CRTs do not do a great job of conveying the experience though. If you don't sit too close to the monitor you might actually end up liking the scanlines, so this discussion is probably a moot one to have right now.


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:04 am 


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Quote:
I get what you mean, but feeding line-doubled or tripled 240p to a 240p-compatible broadcast monitor makes little sense

Is this what he was asking? I wasn't sure. If so, then he wouldn't need a Corio2 in the first place. Any scaler with a 480p+ output would do fine. It sounded to me as if he was expecting a "softer" kind of 240p using a Corio2 to downscale and while this might be true for the pixel sharpness, it won't affect the scanlines of the monitor of course.


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:49 am 


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You're right, "line-doubled or tripled 240p" should read "downscaled hi-res 240p source" I guess?

Downscaling an upscaled 240p source to feed a 240p-capable monitor something else than 240p makes even less of a sense if possible..


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:16 am 



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I appreciate the input, thanks all.

Obv I'm struggling to make my point, and admittedly it's a fuzzy one, so putting it into numbers in some theoretical scenarios. Fundamentally this is based on the assumption that there's a physical width of the CRT beam, HD has a narrower, SD has a wider beam:

240p source into SD is a nice 480:240 = 2:1 "downscale", so a beam:blank ratio of 50:50 (1:1). Classic scanlines, All good.
240p source into HD (not tested by me but expected) is 1080:240 = 9:2 "scale", so 78:22 blank:beam (3.5:1). Those are some separated lines.

Again, these are assuming SD CRTs have fatter beam lines than HD CRTs, which would make sense if you're trying to fit more horizontal lines in the same space.

Theory:
240p to HDMI to Corio2 480p into HD: 1080:480 = 4.5:2, so 2.25:1 blank:beam, closer to 240p on SD.
or
240p to HDMI to Corio2 720p into HD: 1080:720 = 3:2, so 1.5:1 blank:beam, narrower "scanlines" to 240p on SD. This would be my ideal.

It's a roundabout way, upscaling to downscaling, and perhaps as Fudoh says Corio2 is not the best method, but is the theory sound and can Corio2 work at all at 1080p to 720p or should I look elsewhere? Maybe plug straight into the multiformat with 720p direct output? I'm modding everything to a lossless HDMI output so the upscale is trivial, it's just the downscale that's questionable.

BONUS ROUND: pass through from multiformat HD into SD via JVC RGB card. What's the order here? HMDI (720p)-> HD CRT -> Corio2 (240p)-> SD CRT? Y'know, for shits 'n giggles.

Or, idk, just plug in with RGB out and stop complicating things.


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:23 am 



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Xer Xian wrote:
Downscaling an upscaled 240p source to feed a 240p-capable monitor something else than 240p makes even less of a sense if possible..


Downscaling an upscaled 240p source to feed a 720p signal in order to narrow down scanlines. "Capable" it may be, but lines may be too wide and worse on HD than on SD with 240p. Would 720p in make it look better? Can Corio2 output a decent 720p?


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:47 am 



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emenelopee wrote:
this is based on the assumption that there's a physical width of the CRT beam, HD has a narrower, SD has a wider beam


Hi emenelopee, that isn't quite how these sets work. A HD set doesn't per say have a narrower beam (for a certain resolution) than a SD set has, and is why I was trying to explain this to you by saying things above like:

"the multiformat and the consumer SD set will display 240p the same exact way", and:

"Seems like you might still thinking of CRT's in terms of LCD/LED's, since the latter has a fixed height of each individual horizontal row, and it sounds like you're thinking that a CRT would have a fixed height of each row as well, which isn't the case at all", and that:

"the beam itself can vary in thickness", and:

"240p and 480i content on a multiformat can look EXACTLY like it does on a SD"
(this was the 2nd time saying this same exact thing, but using all capitals for 'exactly' to try to impress on you this fact! ;)

Hope I don't sound like a jerk by quoting myself all those times (don't mean to be), but I just don't know how else to say it...


Anyway, a 800 TVL multiformat set will, can, and does in many cases, display 240p and 480i content nearly identical to a 800 TVL non-multiformat SD set. There is going to be N O H U G E (for example ;) "3.5:1" ratio between scanlines on 240p content simply because it's a multiformat CRT.

BUT, a high-end set CAN however have such super clean resolution and clarity that you can see some things (like SUPER thin lines between rows... which BTW aren't visible from even a mere 2' away or whatever) where you wouldn't ordinarily see things like that on lower end professional monitors because either sharpness is lacking, there's just a touch more bloom, etc. etc. (could even be by design...but nowhere near as drastic as you might be thinking in your head and have presented here).


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:47 am 


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The beam thickness / spot size varies across different CRTs (monitors with a high TVL count will generally have a smaller spot size than low TVL ones) but it is fixed for any given calibrated CRT (for any given current intensity, see down below). Emenelopee, you are right in assuming that an HD-capable monitor generally has smaller active lines, and will therefore show thick scanlines (blanklines) at the lowest resolutions. You aren't necessarily right when you assume that any given (multisync) CRT will have its beam tuned in such a way that it will be able to perfectly resolve the highest vertical resolution it is specified to support.

It is true that when one speaks about the analog characteristics of CRTs in terms of how it renders the image (i.e. lack of discrete pixels) it is generally in relation to the horizontal and not to the vertical resolution, since horizontally there's an uninterrupted electron beam illuminating a continuous phosphors layer (without matching single pixels to the single phosphors groupings) while vertically there certainly are 'discrete' lines being drawn. However, that does not mean that the CRT directly addresses any specific phosphor lines (they are not even aligned in shadow mask monitors) nor necessarily that the beam is finely tuned in such a way that it can fully resolve the highest supported vertical resolution. A CRT displaying 240p will not generally have in any given moment just 1/3 of the active phosphors it has when displaying 720p. Also, active lines can have a varying width depending on changes on the voltage level of the signal (and therefore the intensity of the beam) as Unseen explained here.

emenelopee wrote:
Xer Xian wrote:
Downscaling an upscaled 240p source to feed a 240p-capable monitor something else than 240p makes even less of a sense if possible..


Downscaling an upscaled 240p source to feed a 720p signal in order to narrow down scanlines. "Capable" it may be, but lines may be too wide and worse on HD than on SD with 240p. Would 720p in make it look better? Can Corio2 output a decent 720p?

I don't know about 720p, but if your hardware can output (240p line-quadrupled) 960p (which the Corio can neatly downscale to 480p) that would be a safer bet than 720p. A DT-V monitor shows practically no blanklines at 480p.

Of course, if your hardware can directly output (240p line-doubled) 480p or (240p line-tripled) 720p, that would make the Corio useless.


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:28 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 1129
Xer Xian wrote:
Emenelopee, you are right in assuming that an HD-capable monitor generally has smaller active lines, and will therefore show thick scanlines (blanklines) at the lowest resolutions.

One of my points above was that this is not SOLELY because it's a HD-capable monitor (I think this is one of the things Emenelopee is getting caught-up on so I just want to make this clear). It has more to do with how most HD CRT's are way higher end (in many different ways, from the TVL, to the voltage regulation sometimes, to the type of phosphor used even, etc. etc.) than their lower-end SD brethren, and as such they are more likely to have the technical ability to draw everything razor sharp. Razor sharp can mean things like a line having nearly zero bleed/bloom before the line above or below it in 480p for example so you can see micro-scanlines (which again, can't be seen even a couple feet back), or things like the perceived blanking (scanlines) in 240p seeming more pronounced than a lower-end set simply because of the above factors.

Another way to look at it is because a HD set has the CAPABILITY to go thinner and smaller for those higher resolutions means that it's engineered (in most cases) to be extremely precise, so of course when it's playing back mere 240p content, that sharpness can be perceived as having LARGER blanking/scanlines, but they're really still going to be 50% / 50% on and off (but you're not seeing any bloom or extraneous... especially with a Trinitron Aperture grill where there's no hanging ~dots like a shadow mask can have between lines - so it can look emphasized for sure).

BUT, again, 800, 900, 1000 TVL SD monitors can also be JUST as sharp on SD content as any multiformat I've owned (which between 800+ TVL sets and HD/multiformat sets I've owned maybe 16x of them so I have a decent amount of experience to compare and contrast, and commonly have them setup side-by-side with the same signal even).


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:58 pm 



Joined: 09 May 2020
Posts: 15
Thanks all, I think I've learned something today, I appreciate the efforts in explaining. I'm not 100% onboard yet but perhaps I just need to see in person.

And thx Xer Xian, "blanklines" is the word I was looking for.

And to put a close to this digression (at least for now), there may be a Corio2 750 looking for a home some time soon.


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:04 pm 


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Location: Italy
Dochartaigh wrote:
One of my points above was that this is not SOLELY because it's a HD-capable monitor (I think this is one of the things Emenelopee is getting caught-up on so I just want to make this clear).

Of course, yeah, it was better to stick with the 'high TVL' qualifier instead of 'HD-capable'.

(and yes, the TVL count is not indicative of scanlines thickness per se but just a proxy)

emenelopee wrote:
And thx Xer Xian, "blanklines" is the word I was looking for.

The scanlines/blanklines thing is unfortunate since it can lead to misunderstandings very easily :| 'scanlines' would be best used to refer to active lines but it's ingrained now.


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:25 pm 



Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 11
Can 480i output be setup on the corio2?


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:05 pm 


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Location: UK
kerryking wrote:
Can 480i output be setup on the corio2?

Yes, they support SD PAL and NTSC, they just don't refer to it as 576i and 480i in the manual. Curious as to why you would want 480i output though?


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