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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:59 am 



Joined: 01 Mar 2016
Posts: 14
Hi Fudoh,

Thanks for your reply
Can i ask how you connect your corio device to your TV?

i mean the exact cable you use to connect the VGA out from the corio to a consumer TV.

I tried this morning using the PS4 (tried with PS4 video-output setting 720p) but again horizontal lines, the only time games that have the issue can be fixed is when i use letterbox/pillarbox for aspect ratio, but then off course aspect is not correctly displayed, same for the xbox360


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:54 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2016
Posts: 14
Still cannot figure this out, another easy way would be if someone can test sonic 3D or maybe doom 2006 via consumer tv scart to see if the artifacts ( horizontal black moving lines) also occur with the corio c2-400

I am thinking perhaps a extron rgb 203rxi may clean it up? Not sure about that but i tried so much by now i am running out of ideas to try to fix this issue..

Street fighter 4 is also such a game, on the character select screen of this game it is very apparent when going from a character on line one to line two and back...its all over the place..


I am using the latest firmware for the c2-400 version 6.5


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:12 pm 


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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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Location: Germany
Quote:
Can i ask how you connect your corio device to your TV?
i mean the exact cable you use to connect the VGA out from the corio to a consumer TV.

if you're connecting a 15khz RGBHV source to a consumer TV with RGB Scart input you need a) a sync combiner (to get H+V into composite sync) and b) you need to attenuate your video levels. A device lika the UMSA can do both. If you're using a RGB monitor instead, you might not have to worry about the sync level. If your target display and your Corio2 unit support different sync types, you can try that as well. For example RGsB.

My particular Corio2 unit is configured for component output.


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:51 am 



Joined: 01 Mar 2016
Posts: 14
Hi Fudoh,

To be sure i would need someone with a setup like mine, Corioc2-400 to Consumer TV to please test one of these games like ultra streetfighter 4 or Doom 2016, Sonic 3D,and i believe any 'recent' game without 4:3 or WIDE option really

I have looked in the manual of the Corio C2-400 and it says there that the VGA output pin 13 (H-sync) is the composite-sync used for RGBS but comes out TTL level so i used a 470ohm resistor and connected that to pin 20 of the scart.
The only other connection left to connect to get RGB are RGB and it's corresponding grounds which i did.

This works, and gives met a clean image on the Sony CRT through scart, although with the horizontal black lines issue but not for all games and that is what i find so strange, it might indeed be that games not made for 240p or do not have a wide option like deathsmiles dont handle the conversion to 240p correctly.

The UMSA works great in my Astro City with groovymame (also VGA to RGBS), but this very same UMSA has the same problem when i connect it to the Corio's VGA out into my Sony CRT .
PS: Before i acquired the Astro City cab,I had the groovymame pc hooked up to the Sony CRT and that worked fine.

I have tried with another CRT i have, a B&O MX4000 CRT,same issue, also horizontal black lines as shown in the video of Sonic 3D.

Really starting to wonder, unless there is a problem with my Corio, these games might not be able to be displayed correctly Could it be the horizontal black lines are due to scaling a 1080 or 720 game to 240p ? Maybe that is why the dreamcast games work fine?

Unless someone can confirm they have no trouble with the games i listed here on a CRT TV with the corcioC2-400, i am at a stalemate here..


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:21 am 


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Joined: 05 Nov 2019
Posts: 151
kitty666cats wrote:
Image


I was told by somebody in a Discord chat I partake in that this image here definitely isn't 240p, I'm just kinda curious how one can immediately tell just by a quick glance? The scanlines here appeared after adjusting the image and moving it downwards incrementally, they kinda popped up outta nowhere from what, beforehand, was very obviously 480i with no defined lines. The scanlines were completely stable and didn't really 'phase' in and out (like what you would get using, say, a VSC-500 with all options set to stabilize the image).

They kept telling me to snap a photo at 1/30 shutter speed, but I don't think my phone can do that. Could I see some sort of comparison photo of someone else's model with ~ verified 240p ~ functionality so I can see this difference I don't quite understand? Maybe they assumed I had snapped this pic at the exact right moment, but no, those lines were set in place and still-as-a-statue! O_o


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:46 pm 


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kitty666cats wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:
Image


I was told by somebody in a Discord chat I partake in that this image here definitely isn't 240p, I'm just kinda curious how one can immediately tell just by a quick glance? The scanlines here appeared after adjusting the image and moving it downwards incrementally, they kinda popped up outta nowhere from what, beforehand, was very obviously 480i with no defined lines. The scanlines were completely stable and didn't really 'phase' in and out (like what you would get using, say, a VSC-500 with all options set to stabilize the image).

They kept telling me to snap a photo at 1/30 shutter speed, but I don't think my phone can do that. Could I see some sort of comparison photo of someone else's model with ~ verified 240p ~ functionality so I can see this difference I don't quite understand? Maybe they assumed I had snapped this pic at the exact right moment, but no, those lines were set in place and still-as-a-statue! O_o


Image

Like, to me, it most resembles the middle pic here. It's a head-scratcher, my buddy threw me for a loop saying that it's 480i. Am I to infer that a 'proper' C2 supplies you with what looks like the leftmost image?


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:22 pm 


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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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The comparison image you posted (from Bob's page) is out of context. His next image* gives a better idea. Scanlines (spacing and stability) is identical on a true 240p image and a 240p one down converted from a 480p image. After all, it's real 240p as well.

* https://cdn.retrorgb.com/images/240pCompare03.jpg

Why your previously image posted should obviously be 480i instead of 240p is beyond me, but didn't you previously post an image that also looked like 240p on the photo (some cover snapshots on a yellow background - can't find the image right now). After all a 480i image consists of 240p fields, so every field basically resembles a 240p image with the same scanlines you'd see on a true 240p signal. If your camera only manages to get a shot of that single field, then it will look like 240p.

I don't really understand why you have problems telling 240p from 480i. Obviously you have a CRT on hand and if you just connect any 240p source you have around (doesn't even have to be RGB or component) and then go back to your C2's output, it should be dead easy to tell the difference.


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:23 am 


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Joined: 05 Nov 2019
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Fudoh wrote:
The comparison image you posted (from Bob's page) is out of context. His next image* gives a better idea. Scanlines (spacing and stability) is identical on a true 240p image and a 240p one down converted from a 480p image. After all, it's real 240p as well.

* https://cdn.retrorgb.com/images/240pCompare03.jpg

Why your previously image posted should obviously be 480i instead of 240p is beyond me, but didn't you previously post an image that also looked like 240p on the photo (some cover snapshots on a yellow background - can't find the image right now). After all a 480i image consists of 240p fields, so every field basically resembles a 240p image with the same scanlines you'd see on a true 240p signal. If your camera only manages to get a shot of that single field, then it will look like 240p.

I don't really understand why you have problems telling 240p from 480i. Obviously you have a CRT on hand and if you just connect any 240p source you have around (doesn't even have to be RGB or component) and then go back to your C2's output, it should be dead easy to tell the difference.


Ah yeah, that old image was Nintendo Switch's selection of NES games via a Analog Way scan converter.

I THOUGHT I had no trouble telling 480i and 240p apart, it seems so blatantly obvious to me, until that one fella was insisting on this Corio2 image (the one I just posted earlier tonight) being 480i a little while back. Entirely possible he was talking out of his ass, not being able to see the image in motion IRL...


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:35 pm 


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Joined: 22 Aug 2011
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Location: Portugal
Which Power Supply the 1T-C2-400 model use? I'm seeing one on ebay UK, but without Power Supply.


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:40 pm 


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Overkill wrote:
Which Power Supply the 1T-C2-400 model use? I'm seeing one on ebay UK, but without Power Supply.


OEM PSU for my 1100 is 12VDC 1A, I wouldn't be surprised if the 400 is the same. TVone has most, if not all, of their legacy products listed on their site with firmware, manuals, all that good stuff. :)


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:03 pm 


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Location: Portugal
Thanks kitty666cats, how about the plug?


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:14 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
Corio 2 power supply specifications :

2.5mm 12v DC 1Amp (center positive)


This should hold true for everything but the (rare) wide multiviewer rack units.

Should be the same for both C2 v1 and C2 v2 FPGAs.
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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:46 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2016
Posts: 14
I am wondering something, are any of you guys actually use a corio c2-400 to play xbox360 720p/1080p games on a 4:3 crt tv?

Im guessing you all are using widescreen crts or some other widescreen display
That might be the reason why i have these vertical lines in games over 480p on xbox360 on a 4:3 crt

In fact, when i set the display settings of the 360 to 720p, the screen on my sony crt goes too dark using the 240p master preset, 480p games are fine when xbox360 display setting are set to 480p
All the older 4:3 games play fine but not the newer ones
I am starting to believe corio c2-400 will never display these games designed for 720p/1080p 16:9 aspect-ratio games corectly on a 4:3 sd crt,either that, or my corio unit has a problem..


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:23 pm 


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edomatic wrote:
I am wondering something, are any of you guys actually use a corio c2-400 to play xbox360 720p/1080p games on a 4:3 crt tv?

Im guessing you all are using widescreen crts or some other widescreen display
That might be the reason why i have these vertical lines in games over 480p on xbox360 on a 4:3 crt

In fact, when i set the display settings of the 360 to 720p, the screen on my sony crt goes too dark using the 240p master preset, 480p games are fine when xbox360 display setting are set to 480p
All the older 4:3 games play fine but not the newer ones
I am starting to believe corio c2-400 will never display these games designed for 720p/1080p 16:9 aspect-ratio games corectly on a 4:3 sd crt,either that, or my corio unit has a problem..


To display it "properly" it would need to be letterboxed.

That means wasting some of the vertical screen space. So, you're going to dip below 240p for the downscaled image. So, what is that going to look like?

You'd be downscaling 720 or 1080 lines of image down to 200 or fewer lines, because I'm wasting screen real estate.

That would look awful. I don't mind if other people try it, but that's not something I care to attempt. It's not worth my effort.
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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:40 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 1082
edomatic wrote:
I am wondering something, are any of you guys actually use a corio c2-400 to play xbox360 720p/1080p games on a 4:3 crt tv?

Won't all games play when the Xbox 360 is set to 480p mode? Why would you set the Xbox 360 to 720p or 1080p when 480p is a direct integer scale of 240p (I would rather have the Xbox 360 itself scale that first part to 480p at least)?

To answer your question though, I've done both 1080p from an Xbox one (which being a widescreen format will always have black bars on the top and bottom, i.e. letterboxed -- this is on a 4:3 Sony BVM CRT which I just happen to have a 16:9 mask for FYI):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNVu9d4rcy4


And I've also successfully used the geometry controls to make a widescreen-only 720p game from Xbox 360, downscale to 240p, then use the geometry controls to make it fit into a 4:3 image on a 4:3 CRT (but this game was originally a 4:3 240p game, but to make it for the 360 they kinda just added the graphics on the side to make it 720p for modern screens, then I'm bringing it back home to 240p by stretching the image through the Corio2... still not ideal though):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JZkZgGud2s

Both were successful to 240p with a Corio2. Oh, BTW, if your screen gets darker like at 38 seconds on the 2nd video, that's a setting on your PVM that needs to be tweaked actually (found that out later).


But yeah, like Orange808 was getting at, this is kinda a pointless exercise. Myself personally I stick to downscaling 480p 4:3 games for the most part (many of which were original 240p games to begin with, which just happen to be 'converted' to 480p on consoles, so I like turning them back to 240p especially when the only other SD CRT use scenario would mean using horrible 480i as the nasty-other-option). Anything higher, like games natively and originally made for 720p or 1080p flatscreens I find way more enjoyable on my modern flatscreen.


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 Post subject: Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:51 am 



Joined: 01 Mar 2016
Posts: 14
Hi Guys,
thanks for reply
yes, i believe i will stick to 480p content too, i myself do not own a xbox one so i cannot test it with that :-)

I never got any game that goes over 480p to display properly doh unless i believe when pillarbox or letterboxed aspect setting in corio was selected (but that is like a screen in a screen if you see what i mean) can't remember which one it was, but then i would have to adjust geometry of the TV and i dont want to go there as it works for all other consoles connected to my set

but like you stated there Dochartaigh, i do not have any issue with the dreamcast and games that are original 4:3 480p games from the xbox360 or xbox classic.


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