TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

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orange808
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by orange808 »

...the "SIS and Logo" menu is not active...
I wouldn't worry.

It could be because you have such a low "vertical resolution". 240 active lives isn't very much. In case you don't know what those things are, "Screen Inside Screen" (SIS) is just picture in picture (PIP). The logo option would allow you to upload a logo and display it in one of the windows. You could also use "keying" in one of the windows to make the logo appear more professional. For complex setups with more processed inputs, there would be edge blending and multi window applications as well. I don't remember if your machine can genlock a second (unprocessed) input to a window and do picture in picture, but it doesn't matter. For downscaling game content to 240p those features are of little or no value. Obviously, you couldn't pass through very many viable real input signals unprocessed and display them inside a window on a 240p canvas. Your logo would need to be very small and it would be pixelated.

240 vertical lines doesn't provide very much screen real estate to display a second window. Although, having a second window on that machine is pretty useless for gaming, anyway. It can't process a lot of inputs simultaneously. PIP and logo are better for upscaling and there's probably better ways to do those things than a Corio2.
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achtongue
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by achtongue »

Hello folks.

I'm having some weird issues when using a Corio 2 with my MiSTer.

My chain is Analogue IO VGA > Corio C2-2355A > PVM 1954Q.

Following the guide at the beginning of the post and using the xml file, i set up the Corio 2 to downscale to 240p.

My primary use for the MiSTer + Corio 2 is to center and zoom on certain cores that don't seem to display right (Amiga for example).

Running the MiSTer with no defined "video_mode" and "vga_scaler=0", I get a strange shimmering effect in a couple of areas on the screen. I am including a video (https://imgur.com/lxaZpjA) of 240p test suite via snes core to show what I'm talking about.

It looks like someone else had a similar issue (https://imgur.com/a/ej1Qh5c) and the suggested fix was to feed the corio a 31khz signal (i.e. 480p) so that it could properly downscale.

When I do that, i get a weird sizing issue that i'm hoping someone can help me with.

I change mister ini settings to "video_mode=6" and "vga_scaler=1" and this is what happens:

https://imgur.com/PsYwPpk
https://imgur.com/QBDmPST

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for looking!
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Unseen »

orange808 wrote:In case you don't know what those things are, "Screen Inside Screen" (SIS) is just picture in picture (PIP).
TVone actually expands that to "Still Image Store". Scalers with that feature can store a few images that can be used as virtual inputs, which you could for example use for a "Technical difficulties, please stand by"-type screen or (on the multi-window models) as a background image where the individual input windows are placed on.
kardus
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by kardus »

achtongue wrote:Hello folks.

I'm having some weird issues when using a Corio 2 with my MiSTer.

My chain is Analogue IO VGA > Corio C2-2355A > PVM 1954Q.

Following the guide at the beginning of the post and using the xml file, i set up the Corio 2 to downscale to 240p.

My primary use for the MiSTer + Corio 2 is to center and zoom on certain cores that don't seem to display right (Amiga for example).

Running the MiSTer with no defined "video_mode" and "vga_scaler=0", I get a strange shimmering effect in a couple of areas on the screen. I am including a video (https://imgur.com/lxaZpjA) of 240p test suite via snes core to show what I'm talking about.

It looks like someone else had a similar issue (https://imgur.com/a/ej1Qh5c) and the suggested fix was to feed the corio a 31khz signal (i.e. 480p) so that it could properly downscale.

When I do that, i get a weird sizing issue that i'm hoping someone can help me with.

I change mister ini settings to "video_mode=6" and "vga_scaler=1" and this is what happens:

https://imgur.com/PsYwPpk
https://imgur.com/QBDmPST

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for looking!
I don't own a mister but I believe you can just output 240p over HDMI (using "Direct Video" setting). You need a compatible HDMI to VGA dac I guess:

https://mister-devel.github.io/MkDocs_M ... rectvideo/

I don't know if mister will output rgbhv or rgbs over the port but perhaps someone else can chime in. Might be an easier solution for you than using a Corio2 for this (which adds some latency)?

Keep an eye out for DACs using CH7101B chipset if that is something that interests you, a few people I have spoke to report good results.

YMMV
alex-terek
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by alex-terek »

orange808 wrote:
...the "SIS and Logo" menu is not active...
I wouldn't worry.

It could be because you have such a low "vertical resolution". 240 active lives isn't very much. In case you don't know what those things are, "Screen Inside Screen" (SIS) is just picture in picture (PIP). The logo option would allow you to upload a logo and display it in one of the windows.

240 vertical lines doesn't provide very much screen real estate to display a second window. Although, having a second window on that machine is pretty useless for gaming, anyway. It can't process a lot of inputs simultaneously. PIP and logo are better for upscaling and there's probably better ways to do those things than a Corio2.
I meant that I do not have an active SIS menu in the CORIOtoolssuite when connected to a computer via RS232.
In this thread, someone uploaded their picture 640x480 with imitation of scan lines. I wanted to repeat this .. but as I wrote above, I can not upload my picture, because the program does not give it. On the device itself, when connected to a monitor, it seems that there are all the necessary menus, but I don’t have pictures in the TvOne memory.

Image
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orange808
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by orange808 »

alex-terek wrote: I meant that I do not have an active SIS menu in the CORIOtoolssuite when connected to a computer via RS232.
From the description on the TVOne website, it looks like your unit allows graphics to be added and keyed as an additional layer when feeding the composite or svideo inputs. I'm sure the manual has more information. It might work for composite or YC.

https://tvone.com/products/legacy-products/c2-2250a

At the bottom of the webpage, they list some other units that are similar to yours. It looks like the 2855 model has more robust logo features than the 2250a.

From the description of the 2250a, your machine must have been a less expensive model aimed at specific use cases. It's not implementing the full Corio2 V2 feature set. Looks like multiple features are missing from your unit by design. When I say missing, I mean features were intentionally disabled or omitted from the firmware and the machine was sold for less money than the cost of a more robust unit.
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Chestor
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Chestor »

First of all thanks to Dochartaigh for the in depth tutorial.

I have a C2 2355A Plus performing in an admittedly weird use case. I have my corio2 for the purpose of scaling my various signals to NTSC 480i. So far I have been able to feed composite and S-Video at both 240p and 480i successfully.

I am having an issue feeding the device rgb and component signals. The corio2 shows no valid resolution detecting and when I set the rgb input to show output on source loss I get my input image on the top 2/3rds of the screen with the bottom third seeming to be old frame data.

Image

When the input is 480i, I can see the output alternating between more or less locked in and the image being half size with garbage in the lower half.

Image
Image

This behavior is consistent between psx, ps3 and SNES RGB signals

Any ideas to explain why I am able to scale these resolutions just fine from composite and s-video while rgb and component aren't working? Tips to get RGB and component working?
Last edited by Chestor on Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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orange808
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by orange808 »

Buy an Extron VSC 300, 500, or 700 if you need a high quality scan converter.

The Extron VSC machines are also significantly easier to use.
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Chestor
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Chestor »

orange808 wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 4:18 am Buy an Extron VSC 300, 500, or 700 if you need a high quality scan converter.

The Extron VSC machines are also significantly easier to use.
Thanks for the input, but VSC doesn't do what I need it to do. The draw of the Corio2 and the reason I got a 2355 specifically is the ability to do many input types and to output at composite video. All in a single box.

I do not need high quality scan conversion because the ultimate goal is to modulate the composite video to rf. I don't care about any artifacts or weird scaling because the output is only going to look 'ok' at the end device anyway.

I got the device working perfectly for composite and s-video but I'm stuck with RGB and Component. I haven't seen what I can do with high resolution digital yet but I just got my HDMI to DVI-D adapter in so I'll be testing with that soon.
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by orange808 »

If you just want anything in and anything out, there's other options with less lag, better build quality, and superior firmware.

https://www.barco.com/en/support/imagepro-ii-series

If you just want to see an image on the screen and don't really care, that's the one to get.
We apologise for the inconvenience
Chestor
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Chestor »

orange808 wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:27 pm If you just want anything in and anything out, there's other options with less lag, better build quality, and superior firmware.

https://www.barco.com/en/support/imagepro-ii-series

If you just want to see an image on the screen and don't really care, that's the one to get.
Again, I appreciate the Input and the recommendation. I'll look into the ImagePRO II and see if I can get one for a reasonable price, but the point stands that I have this Corio2 device already which should perform the function just as well for my needs.

I'm just looking for input on what anybody may be thinking is going on with my RGB/Component.
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by orange808 »

Chestor wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:25 pm
orange808 wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:27 pm If you just want anything in and anything out, there's other options with less lag, better build quality, and superior firmware.

https://www.barco.com/en/support/imagepro-ii-series

If you just want to see an image on the screen and don't really care, that's the one to get.
Again, I appreciate the Input and the recommendation. I'll look into the ImagePRO II and see if I can get one for a reasonable price, but the point stands that I have this Corio2 device already which should perform the function just as well for my needs.

I'm just looking for input on what anybody may be thinking is going on with my RGB/Component.
It's a firmware bug. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯
We apologise for the inconvenience
Coope
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Coope »

Dochartaigh wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:18 pm Here's a complete tutorial on the affordable* TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers:

*used to be ~$60, recent eBay price check: 10/30/2020 $99 for C2-400, 8/17/2020 $118 for C2-2355.
1/1/2023: Multiple C2-750's $74 shipped, $100, $107. Setup your eBay alerts!


Corio2 240p COMPATIBLE MODELS – and NON-WORKING

Image
Image

First things first: you have to make sure you have, or purchase, a Corio2 unit which can output 240p - not all can output 240p. In a nutshell, a good clue if the Corio2 you’re looking at can output 240p is to look for models which are marketed as an "upscaler" or “scaler” – those seem to be able to output 240p. Models which are advertised as "downscalers" or “down converter” seem to NOT be able to output 240p and should be avoided. I know this is counter-intuitive, but that's what we've found so far.

Another clue, not confirmed or anything, but if it ONLY has YPbPr/Component outputs on it – i.e. no VGA output (not to be confused with the “loop” VGA Out some have, which simply repeats the original input signal without any scaling), no DVI, or no 5x BNC’s for RGBS or RGBHV outputs, it might not work (haven’t found any like that which work yet). Models with only Composite or S-Video tend to not work either (240p can only be output via RGBS or YPbPr-type connections it seems, and I always use VGA-to-whatever adapters for those).

Here’s my work-in-progress list:


C2-2200A RGB out, confirmed by multiple people (and what I've been using for over 4 years now)
Hi, I've been reading up on this thread and I'm a bit confused about the model number of C2-2200A. It shows on your initial image a box with C2-2200 (without the A). Is this the same thing? I'm looking at a 2200 right now but don't want to go a head if it needs the A at the end.

Cheers.

Craig
Dochartaigh
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Dochartaigh »

Coope wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:29 pm Hi, I've been reading up on this thread and I'm a bit confused about the model number of C2-2200A. It shows on your initial image a box with C2-2200 (without the A). Is this the same thing? I'm looking at a 2200 right now but don't want to go a head if it needs the A at the end.
Just double-checked pics on an eBay listing - they're the same. Front says C2-2200, sticker on the unit says C2-2200A.
Coope
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Coope »

Dochartaigh wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:48 pm
Coope wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:29 pm Hi, I've been reading up on this thread and I'm a bit confused about the model number of C2-2200A. It shows on your initial image a box with C2-2200 (without the A). Is this the same thing? I'm looking at a 2200 right now but don't want to go a head if it needs the A at the end.
Just double-checked pics on an eBay listing - they're the same. Front says C2-2200, sticker on the unit says C2-2200A.

Many thanks for your reply on this. I went ahead and bought the C2-2200A. However I have a question which I'm a bit stumped on about the PSU. It didn't come with a PSU so now I've ordered one 12V 1A, however I'm worried that maybe the plug is not standard. Can you tell me if you're using a 3rd party PSU to power your 2200A? I'm hoping the plug needs to be 2.5mm internal and 5.5mm external as that is what I have coming.

Thanks,

Craig
Dochartaigh
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Dochartaigh »

Coope wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:32 pm Many thanks for your reply on this. I went ahead and bought the C2-2200A. However I have a question which I'm a bit stumped on about the PSU. It didn't come with a PSU so now I've ordered one 12V 1A, however I'm worried that maybe the plug is not standard. Can you tell me if you're using a 3rd party PSU to power your 2200A? I'm hoping the plug needs to be 2.5mm internal and 5.5mm external as that is what I have coming.
"Barrel Plug, 2.5mm I.D. x 5.5mm O.D. x 11.0mm; Positive Center". I bought these ones (Trident are supposed to be some of the best - people buy them for retro consoles a lot) for the last batch of C2-750's I have (which I keep forgetting to list the last of them for sale... still have like 5x of them all pre-programmed lol). They're 1.5 amp (most need 1 amp I think, but little higher is always better in my eyes, and possible more robust). Think they're like ~2mm longer length barrel than stock, but that's the closest they had and that doesn't really matter, and the price is right at $12.

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/det ... FS3Ur13Qhv
Coope
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Coope »

Dochartaigh wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:51 pm
Coope wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:32 pm Many thanks for your reply on this. I went ahead and bought the C2-2200A. However I have a question which I'm a bit stumped on about the PSU. It didn't come with a PSU so now I've ordered one 12V 1A, however I'm worried that maybe the plug is not standard. Can you tell me if you're using a 3rd party PSU to power your 2200A? I'm hoping the plug needs to be 2.5mm internal and 5.5mm external as that is what I have coming.
"Barrel Plug, 2.5mm I.D. x 5.5mm O.D. x 11.0mm; Positive Center". I bought these ones (Trident are supposed to be some of the best - people buy them for retro consoles a lot) for the last batch of C2-750's I have (which I keep forgetting to list the last of them for sale... still have like 5x of them all pre-programmed lol). They're 1.5 amp (most need 1 amp I think, but little higher is always better in my eyes, and possible more robust). Think they're like ~2mm longer length barrel than stock, but that's the closest they had and that doesn't really matter, and the price is right at $12.

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/det ... FS3Ur13Qhv
Thanks the reply. I got my PSU today and it powers the unit. Unfortunately I went to do a firmware update which was suggested here and it gets to 11% and I get an error 9001 Scaler upload problem. The unit was working find beforehand and now it looks bricked. I should have left it as it was :(
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Dochartaigh »

Coope wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:40 pm Unfortunately I went to do a firmware update which was suggested here and it gets to 11% and I get an error 9001 Scaler upload problem. The unit was working find beforehand and now it looks bricked. I should have left it as it was :(
I've updated, no kidding, probably 60ish Corio2's – I'm sure I've had it fail a time or two, but always does it in the end (and is the first step I always do as you have no clue what the previous owner could have done to the settings on the unit).

Since yours doesn't do a firmware update, I would try another cable, and/or another USB to RS232/serial cable, and/or another Windows computer even (this is pretty old software - people have had issues with certain flavors of newer Windows - specifically with the legacy .net or whatever drivers)... otherwise hopefully you can return it to the eBay seller (even if they have "no returns", that's only for non-broken units... and a unit which can't update the firmware in my eyes is not working and you should still be able to get a refund).
Coope
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Coope »

Dochartaigh wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:50 pm
Coope wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:40 pm Unfortunately I went to do a firmware update which was suggested here and it gets to 11% and I get an error 9001 Scaler upload problem. The unit was working find beforehand and now it looks bricked. I should have left it as it was :(
I've updated, no kidding, probably 60ish Corio2's – I'm sure I've had it fail a time or two, but always does it in the end (and is the first step I always do as you have no clue what the previous owner could have done to the settings on the unit).

Since yours doesn't do a firmware update, I would try another cable, and/or another USB to RS232/serial cable, and/or another Windows computer even (this is pretty old software - people have had issues with certain flavors of newer Windows - specifically with the legacy .net or whatever drivers)... otherwise hopefully you can return it to the eBay seller (even if they have "no returns", that's only for non-broken units... and a unit which can't update the firmware in my eyes is not working and you should still be able to get a refund).
I don't know if you remember but a long time ago in this thread someone else had the same issue as me and they sorted it with a new cable and reaching out to TVOne who gave him some useful advice about the RS232 port settings. I've only used my cable once to flash a telescope handset and since then it's been sitting in a draw I rummage around in A LOT. Also if I move the usb plug of the cable around in the usb ports of my PC, it disconnects and reconnects. I'll be very surprised if the cable isn't to blame.

I'll probably reply tomorrow when I get the cable for an update. I know a lot of this is rambling but recording stuff on threads like these is important for people googling the same issues in the future.

Craig
Coope
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Coope »

Coope wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:27 pm
Dochartaigh wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:50 pm
Coope wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:40 pm Unfortunately I went to do a firmware update which was suggested here and it gets to 11% and I get an error 9001 Scaler upload problem. The unit was working find beforehand and now it looks bricked. I should have left it as it was :(
I've updated, no kidding, probably 60ish Corio2's – I'm sure I've had it fail a time or two, but always does it in the end (and is the first step I always do as you have no clue what the previous owner could have done to the settings on the unit).

Since yours doesn't do a firmware update, I would try another cable, and/or another USB to RS232/serial cable, and/or another Windows computer even (this is pretty old software - people have had issues with certain flavors of newer Windows - specifically with the legacy .net or whatever drivers)... otherwise hopefully you can return it to the eBay seller (even if they have "no returns", that's only for non-broken units... and a unit which can't update the firmware in my eyes is not working and you should still be able to get a refund).
I don't know if you remember but a long time ago in this thread someone else had the same issue as me and they sorted it with a new cable and reaching out to TVOne who gave him some useful advice about the RS232 port settings. I've only used my cable once to flash a telescope handset and since then it's been sitting in a draw I rummage around in A LOT. Also if I move the usb plug of the cable around in the usb ports of my PC, it disconnects and reconnects. I'll be very surprised if the cable isn't to blame.

I'll probably reply tomorrow when I get the cable for an update. I know a lot of this is rambling but recording stuff on threads like these is important for people googling the same issues in the future.

Craig
The good news is what I was expecting. The new RS232 cable clearly worked and I was able to reflash and FINALLY get the new custom res file uploaded onto the C2. I've currently done no fine adjustments yet though but I will in the next few days. The other guy that had the RS232 issues previously in the thread kinda suggested this and I agree that it would be helpful if you edit your inital instructions just to say that flashing is simple and safe however it has been reported (now by 2 people) that if you have a dud cable it will cause the flash to fail and will temporarily brick their units...but to not panic as it can be fixed with a new cable etc. This is obviously up to you though but reading those instructions at the start would have saved me 24 hours of worry haha!

Okay but I do have a question:
It seems in this thread that it's best to input 480p to get decent 240p. However I have initally found that outputting 640 x 480p from my PC makes the image look blurry. Don't get me wrong the nice "scanlines" are there but the actual image is not crisp. However, if I pump up my input res to 800 x 600 and beyond, it starts to looks much better. I currenty have 1280 x 960 running into the C2 and it looks nice. Is this because it's a multiple of 320 x 240?

Thanks,

Craig
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orange808
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by orange808 »

"Line doubled" 240p that is output as 480p from a PC and fed into the Corio2 should come out (downscaled by the C2) looking very nice with some adjustments. In that case, the amount total and active samples on each 240p C2 downscaled scanline can be virtually identical to a 480p source scanline (and those are repeat twice). Also, the C2 is full chroma, so you aren't losing information on the horizontal axis from subsampling . The C2 scaling can be adjusted to mostly avoid any averaging or blending, so you don't lose much on the verticals and diagonals, either. For downscaling, that's perfect.

Find out if you're getting VESA or DTV 480p output from the PC and match it up on the C2.
We apologise for the inconvenience
Coope
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Coope »

Unfortunately now I have a bigger problem which seems to relate to the C2 2200A. I started to notice my PC not booting or coming out of sleep when the unit is plugged in. Even with is unplugged I'm then having to do a system restore in Windows 10 to get the PC to boot into Windows again due to an "unreachable boot device" BSOD. I'm still testing things and I've swapped the VGA lead. I thought my C drive was failing but all tests run normal and no other odd behaviour.
Coope
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Coope »

orange808 wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 7:36 pm "Line doubled" 240p that is output as 480p from a PC and fed into the Corio2 should come out (downscaled by the C2) looking very nice with some adjustments. In that case, the amount total and active samples on each 240p C2 downscaled scanline can be virtually identical to a 480p source scanline (and those are repeat twice). Also, the C2 is full chroma, so you aren't losing information on the horizontal axis from subsampling . The C2 scaling can be adjusted to mostly avoid any averaging or blending, so you don't lose much on the verticals and diagonals, either. For downscaling, that's perfect.

Find out if you're getting VESA or DTV 480p output from the PC and match it up on the C2.
So without jinxing it, I believe my problem is now sorted. I took out the VGA cable and HDMI to VGA on the input and replaced it with a totally passive HDMI to DVI-D as my 2200A supports this an input. I've rebooted the PC (including shut downs and sleeps) about 30 times without issue.

I am not trying to set it up. I have scaled it all and it looks nice but I'm still using 1280 x 960.

Can you tell me more about this: "Find out if you're getting VESA or DTV 480p output from the PC and match it up on the C2."? I don't know what I'm looking for. I'd like to try and get this running nice and crisp with 480p input. I'm currently using the pre-made xml file for the 2200 in the first page of this thread.

Thanks,

Craig
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orange808
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by orange808 »

Coope wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:45 pm I have scaled it all and it looks nice but I'm still using 1280 x 960.
Okay.

Now, that I'm hearing more, you should stick with 960p.

PC's are a rabbit hole and you have no experience doing these things. Just stick with that.
We apologise for the inconvenience
Coope
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Coope »

orange808 wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 9:25 pm
Coope wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:45 pm I have scaled it all and it looks nice but I'm still using 1280 x 960.
Okay.

Now, that I'm hearing more, you should stick with 960p.

PC's are a rabbit hole and you have no experience doing these things. Just stick with that.
Having no experience is certainly not a reason not to do something. That goes against human nature, at least mine.

I'll keep looking into it myself.
Coope
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:23 pm

Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Coope »

Update. I managed to sort my 480p blurriness (despite having "no experience"). Turns out that my GPU was set to scale in that, although the "desktop" resolution was 640 x 480 in Windows, the GPU (NVidia) was outputting 1920x1200 to the C2 (because that is its max resolution) and scaling it. I turned this off in Nvida control panel and now that it's actually outputting 720 x 480 to the C2, it looks great. Still a bit of fine tuning to do but overall I am very happy with the display.
RebeL9
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:38 am

Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by RebeL9 »

Hi guys. I was planning on getting a Corio2 but seeing this comparison video showed that the input lag on the Corio2 is higher than other scalers. Is the lag noticeable?
https://youtu.be/oYxlv3QyrE8?si=cWQ_h0d4f5MIq4jY
Dochartaigh
Posts: 1519
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:53 pm

Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Dochartaigh »

RebeL9 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 10:38 pm Hi guys. I was planning on getting a Corio2 but seeing this comparison video showed that the input lag on the Corio2 is higher than other scalers. Is the lag noticeable?
https://youtu.be/oYxlv3QyrE8?si=cWQ_h0d4f5MIq4jY
All the time people say they notice absolutely minuscule amounts of lag... if you're a human computer who thinks they can notice 25 THOUSANDTHS of a second (the average lag of a TVOne Corio2)... then more power to you. I think the vast, vast, majority of them are full of it if I'm to be blunt though (or there's a LOT more professional caliber players out there which for some reason I've never seen at Evo... and people like that wouldn't want to ever downscale anything anyway I would think – they would play it native on the native hardware and native framerate).

That number above is from TVOne themselves who say an average of 1.5 frames. If most content we're downscaling is 60 frames per second = 0.0166666667/frame. 1.5 * 0.0166666667 = 0.025 seconds = 25 thousandths of a second unless I screwed up that math...
Coope
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:23 pm

Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Coope »

RebeL9 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 10:38 pm Hi guys. I was planning on getting a Corio2 but seeing this comparison video showed that the input lag on the Corio2 is higher than other scalers. Is the lag noticeable?
https://youtu.be/oYxlv3QyrE8?si=cWQ_h0d4f5MIq4jY
No. I can't see any lag. I usually test it by putting my mouse pointer on the screen and move it quickly from side to side. If there is lag, then it's no more than the LCD monitors I'm using on my PC. I'm very happy with my 2200A.

Coope
charlizardon
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:05 pm

Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by charlizardon »

I recently lag tested downscaling 1080p -> 240p on my 750 using a Time Sleuth. The results showed variable lag between ~19 and ~36 ms, i.e. 1.25 to 2.25 frames.

The lag slowly counts upwards to ~36 ms until it eventually rolls back to ~19. The increments are very small so this takes several minutes. This also means the variance in lag is not particularly noticeable.

The inherent benefit of downscaling in terms of lag is that the target display (CRT) won't add any lag on its own. In other scaling scenarios, an end result of 2 frames is not uncommon when factoring in the display lag, especially not when frame buffering is involved.

In conclusion, even at its worst of 2.25 frames, the Corio should be more than fine in most scenarios.
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