TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

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nes.og
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by nes.og »

Are a lot of these units garbage? I have purchased two 1T-C2-400s and they have different issues.
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orange808
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by orange808 »

nes.og wrote:Are a lot of these units garbage? I have purchased two 1T-C2-400s and they have different issues.
The biggest complaint I've heard is failing power supplies. I would always try a new power supply first. As for general dependability, I have no idea. The only notoriously undependable machine I know of is the DVDO vp50pro. Almost everyone that owns one (myself included) has run into problems.

Have you also checked out some of the other downscaling options? Depending on your use case, you might be able to use a different machine that's easier to operate.
We apologise for the inconvenience
Guile
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Guile »

nes.og wrote:Are a lot of these units garbage? I have purchased two 1T-C2-400s and they have different issues.
What kind of issues are you having? I have a 1T-C2-400 and it's working fine. I updated it to the last firmware before using it.
Dochartaigh
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Dochartaigh »

nes.og wrote:Are a lot of these units garbage? I have purchased two 1T-C2-400s and they have different issues.
What issues?

Have you reinstalled the firmware to start from scratch (that's ALWAYS my first step when I get one, even when it's perfectly working - who knows what funky settings the last owner had it setup with)?



I've owned a metric shit-ton of these. Literally dozens. Found a bulk lot I bought with friends when they were still cheap, then individually. ONE single C2-400 was broke. ALL power supplies were good (even all the non-TVOne branded chinese-brand ones these commonly come with from the factory were fine).

A good 20ish were BNIB so I'm not counting those. Regular used ones hours were commonly around 15-20,000 or so, high of 70k (maybe one 100k in there). All seemed to work as good as new. Two of the C2-2XXX models had LCD screens that weren't as contrasty as some others which could have been QC or a change in parts at some point, don't really know, but that's about it.

Anyway, they've been EXTREMELY reliable in my experience.
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kitty666cats
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by kitty666cats »

Guile wrote:Does anyone know if the c2-3350 can output 240p? I don't see it in the list of known compatible devices but it looks like it should work with custom resolutions.
Almost certainly 'yes', but please note I have not personally used this one. Considering I even got a C2-1100 to output 240p (had to manually adjust settings), your potential unit that says 'scaler' and has DVI/HD15 output connectors should work - hits all the 'check marks' that the popular 1T-C2-400 hits + should be compatible with the convenient RS-232 GUI
nes.og
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by nes.og »

Thanks for everyone’s responses and a special thanks to Dochartaigh for starting this thread with his guide.

The issue I was having is not getting sync over 240P with component on two different C2-400 units. To isolate the problem I disconnected the input device to just test the output. These caused different random color distortion on both units. About to give up I reconnected the input device and cycled through the different 240P resolutions from the XML even though I knew they were all the same (multiple entries for different systems so you can tweak) Out of the blue different 240P resolutions worked on each unit. Cycling to other 240P resolutions loses sync so very strange since they are all the same and I had YUV selected on all of them. This behavior is the same on multiple CRTs with multiple component adapters and component cables.
Last edited by nes.og on Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
nes.og
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by nes.og »

If you you want to start out with component without a monitor with RGB/RGBHV then you need to use the software to select the resolution and switch to component because you won’t see anything on the screen when you force to 480P from the buttons on the front of the unit. Easier way to change settings opposed to using the buttons in general.
crabbyguy
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by crabbyguy »

As many others before me have lamented, I was able to nab a c2-400 for a reasonable price, but it doesn't come with a power supply. I saw that user JigsawMan posted an amazon link to a replacement that he personally used on his 2355 and 2855 devices on page 7, but the link is dead. I also saw Seikenfreak posted a tutorial for replacing the proprietary jack on page 4, but I have already tried my hand at making a GBS-C and failed miserably, so I'm not quite ready to jump back into soldering, which is why I decided on going the TvOne Corio2 route in the first place.

If anybody knows of any decent replacement cables to buy, I'd love to get a link. Thanks to all of you who have participated in this thread, and double thanks to those of you who might read my post and help me out!!
zombiz
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by zombiz »

Thanks to all for this wonderful topic and advices :)

I managed to grab a C2-750.
Flashed the latest firmware, and then uploaded the provided .xml with custom resolutions.

But strange result (trying to downscale 480p to 240p ; VGA PC source): using the "240p" presets (240p MASTER or another), the result is the picture isn't full screen. It's about 1/3 of the screen horizontaly (centered), and full vertical screen... so it's kind of 'compressed' and unusable.
The only way to have a full screen in 15khz is by using "NTSC / 60Hz" (or "PAL / 50Hz").

Tested on a Nanao MS9-29 and a Nanao MS-2931...

Any kind of advice on how to fix that strange behaviour ?
Thanks !
Dochartaigh
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Dochartaigh »

zombiz wrote:I managed to grab a C2-750.
Flashed the latest firmware, and then uploaded the provided .xml with custom resolutions.

But strange result (trying to downscale 480p to 240p ; VGA PC source): using the "240p" presets (240p MASTER or another), the result is the picture isn't full screen. It's about 1/3 of the screen horizontaly (centered), and full vertical screen... so it's kind of 'compressed' and unusable.
The only way to have a full screen in 15khz is by using "NTSC / 60Hz" (or "PAL / 50Hz").
Did you watch the 2nd video of the tutorial where I mentioned that many units like to default to a weird zoom level from the get-go? Usually 150%, but set that back to normal.

If that is already set to 100%, give what I mention in the "SCALING AND CENTERING" part of the tutorial a go. That's the only place I know where to adjust those things.

Last, you might want to re-install the firmware and start from scratch just in case. I also didn't make the C2-750 file so I've never tested that myself (not saying it's incorrect... I've just never tested myself), so you might want to follow the notes in the tutorial and make your own 240p preset yourself instead of loading from a pre-made file. I would also test on a non-arcade CRT monitor to rule those out as well – I have zero experience on those so don't know if they need higher level TTL sync or other such variables I wouldn't even know about (I'm using consumer TV's like 'newer' silver Sony's, and PVM and BVM's myself - and has worked perfectly on literally dozenS of those).
zombiz
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by zombiz »

Dochartaigh wrote:
zombiz wrote:I managed to grab a C2-750.
Flashed the latest firmware, and then uploaded the provided .xml with custom resolutions.

But strange result (trying to downscale 480p to 240p ; VGA PC source): using the "240p" presets (240p MASTER or another), the result is the picture isn't full screen. It's about 1/3 of the screen horizontaly (centered), and full vertical screen... so it's kind of 'compressed' and unusable.
The only way to have a full screen in 15khz is by using "NTSC / 60Hz" (or "PAL / 50Hz").
Did you watch the 2nd video of the tutorial where I mentioned that many units like to default to a weird zoom level from the get-go? Usually 150%, but set that back to normal.

If that is already set to 100%, give what I mention in the "SCALING AND CENTERING" part of the tutorial a go. That's the only place I know where to adjust those things.

Last, you might want to re-install the firmware and start from scratch just in case. I also didn't make the C2-750 file so I've never tested that myself (not saying it's incorrect... I've just never tested myself), so you might want to follow the notes in the tutorial and make your own 240p preset yourself instead of loading from a pre-made file. I would also test on a non-arcade CRT monitor to rule those out as well – I have zero experience on those so don't know if they need higher level TTL sync or other such variables I wouldn't even know about (I'm using consumer TV's like 'newer' silver Sony's, and PVM and BVM's myself - and has worked perfectly on literally dozenS of those).
Yes, i watched your videos and they were very helpful :)

But.. zoom at 100%, and also tried the "scaling and centering" stuff but it didn't work for me with the 240p presets...
(it works OK with the NTSC preset BTW. I had to adjust position to fit my screen.)

I'll testit on my supergun, and then... i'll do it all over from scratch if needed!
Thanks.


EDIT: tried it with my supergun (and an OSSC), same issue with the 240p presets :(
Dochartaigh
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Dochartaigh »

zombiz wrote: EDIT: tried it with my supergun (and an OSSC), same issue with the 240p presets :(
Can you show a short video of you turning on the 240p Master resolution preset (and selecting the correct input since your 750 has two – which I don't quite know how that part works), scroll through your settings in that 240p resolution preset so we can confirm they're proper; then you adjusting the "TL pos. adj." and "BR size adj." showing nothing changing on screen?

Might have to wait for others to chime in because I can't think of a scenario where the built-in adjustments don't work when they work for all of us (especially when other presets DO allow you to adjust).

I would also try to simplify your chain to rule out anything else: 480p source (preferably a 480p console since the vast majority of us are using those and not a PC) > Corio2 > regular old consumer CRT TV via RGBS or YPbPr. This could very well be a futile exercise, but I always like to start at the lowest common denominator - the most simple setup possible, to rule out anything funky from things like Windows PC's with EDID's and ~10 different flavors of ~640x480 resolutions, Arcade Monitors, Superguns, and secondary upscalers like the OSSC – all of which you've been trying.

Also hoping a C2-750 owner chimes in to see if there's anything specific to that model that differs from the others (especially since I don't own that model to help you troubleshoot) - it is one of the few dual input C2's, and also one of the few that has both digital and analog input over the DVI-I plug (the most popular C2-400 model for instance is only analog over VGA).
nes.og
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by nes.og »

zombiz wrote:Thanks to all for this wonderful topic and advices :)

I managed to grab a C2-750.
Flashed the latest firmware, and then uploaded the provided .xml with custom resolutions.

But strange result (trying to downscale 480p to 240p ; VGA PC source): using the "240p" presets (240p MASTER or another), the result is the picture isn't full screen. It's about 1/3 of the screen horizontaly (centered), and full vertical screen... so it's kind of 'compressed' and unusable.
The only way to have a full screen in 15khz is by using "NTSC / 60Hz" (or "PAL / 50Hz").

Tested on a Nanao MS9-29 and a Nanao MS-2931...

Any kind of advice on how to fix that strange behaviour ?
Thanks !
Sounds like you may have the same issue I do with my units. Try to keep switching though all the different 240P presets until one sticks. See my posts before yours for more info.
zombiz
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by zombiz »

The solution :) :

<Resolution_info>
<ResolutionName>320 x 240 60Hz</ResolutionName>
<HWidth>320</HWidth>
<VHeight>240</VHeight>
<HFreq>15730</HFreq>
<HTotal>440</HTotal>
<VTotal>262</VTotal>
<HSync>64</HSync>
<VSync>3</VSync>
<HPos>28</HPos>
<VPos>15</VPos>
<Sync>NN</Sync>
<Flags>R</Flags>
</Resolution_info>

or
<Resolution_info>
<ResolutionName>P1 </ResolutionName>
<HWidth>320</HWidth>
<VHeight>240</VHeight>
<HFreq>15360</HFreq>
<HTotal>400</HTotal>
<VTotal>256</VTotal>
<HSync>32</HSync>
<VSync>7</VSync>
<HPos>40</HPos>
<VPos>6</VPos>
<Sync>NN</Sync>
<Flags />
</Resolution_info>

Both worked for me !

I think the issue was that the 720 horizontal resolution from the presets doesn't work as intended with arcade CRT.
(I don't have another CRT to try it.)

---
For reference, other resolutions tested working:
<Resolution_info>
<ResolutionName>320 x 240 62Hz </ResolutionName>
<HWidth>320</HWidth>
<VHeight>240</VHeight>
<HFreq>16000</HFreq>
<HTotal>463</HTotal>
<VTotal>267</VTotal>
<HSync>64</HSync>
<VSync>3</VSync>
<HPos>33</HPos>
<VPos>12</VPos>
<Sync>NN</Sync>
<Flags />
</Resolution_info>
<Resolution_info>
<ResolutionName>320 x 256 60Hz </ResolutionName>
<HWidth>320</HWidth>
<VHeight>256</VHeight>
<HFreq>15780</HFreq>
<HTotal>463</HTotal>
<VTotal>263</VTotal>
<HSync>64</HSync>
<VSync>3</VSync>
<HPos>33</HPos>
<VPos>1</VPos>
<Sync>NN</Sync>
<Flags>R</Flags>
</Resolution_info>
s3ththompson
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by s3ththompson »

Thanks for posting an excellent tutorial!

I just got a used 1T-C2-750 from eBay.

The device powers on and turns on all the LED lights (5 blue lights and the red standby light), but seems unresponsive. I am unable to perform a factory reset (by pressing MENU and STANDBY) or connect over the serial port. I have also checked that the front panel keys are not locked (by pressing INPUT and STANDBY).

Has anyone encountered this issue in the wild? Is there a simple fix that I'm missing?
Foxe
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Foxe »

Interestingly the Firmware link on their website is broken. With a bit of snooping I found the right link though for the 400 model firmware. Here's what I found: https://tvone.com/images/firmware/c15_1t_c2_v265.exe

Does anybody else have my issue with the 400 though? Even with the device powered off, there's a signal coming through to my CRTs. It's just noise coming from the HDMI signal and seemingly passing straight through to the output. It's enough to trigger auto switching on my switches as well making it an "always on" device of sorts. My only remedy has been disconnecting the HDMI cord going to the Tendak HDMI->VGA converter. I don't have this issue with my 750 model.
Dochartaigh
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Dochartaigh »

Foxe wrote:Does anybody else have my issue with the 400 though? Even with the device powered off, there's a signal coming through to my CRTs. It's just noise coming from the HDMI signal and seemingly passing straight through to the output. It's enough to trigger auto switching on my switches as well making it an "always on" device of sorts. My only remedy has been disconnecting the HDMI cord going to the Tendak HDMI->VGA converter. I don't have this issue with my 750 model.
I believe orange808 said the C2-400 has passthrough mode - so when it's off it is STILL passing through whatever signal it's given. Don't know if the C2-750 has the same or not... so the issue might be with your HDMI device or the Tendak itself (which I believe is non-powered so still points to your HDMI).
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orange808
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by orange808 »

Yes. That one has passthrough. The machines with a digital output do not have passthrough in standby/off mode. I assume that's because of ADC/DAC.
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Foxe
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Foxe »

Ah, that would make sense then. Is there a way to disable passthrough at all even using anything external? Some searching around it seems like the answer is typically no. I may make something hacky to do this by buying a 2 in 1 out hdmi or vga switch then adding it to my smart controls so it's on the right input anytime I power on the Corio. That way power off means it's both off and any video line is disconnected.
trenog
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by trenog »

I recently have been trying out my brand new Corio TVOne C2-2355a with my starting CRT Setup and noticed some vertical "vibrating" in two different vertical bars on the screen (at approximately 25% and 75% the screen width).

Wanted to get people's feedback on what could be happening.

Setup:
Analogue Mega-SG -> HDMI -> Analogue DAC -> Extron Crosspoint Ultra 88 -> Corio C2-2355a ("RGB" RGBS In, "DVI-I" RGBS out, 720x240 Resolution) -> (Happens with both) Sony PVM 2530/PVM 1354q

My plan is to confirm if this problem exists with an RGB input that isn't an Analogue DAC, but I need to mod my N64 for RGBS before I can do that.

Does anyone have an Analogue DAC to be able to test out a DAC -> Corio C2 -> CRT configuration themselves for verification?

Note: I won't be using an Analogue DAC as part of an RGB -> Corio C2-2355a -> CRT setup, it was just the first RGBS console output I have at this time.

Thanks!
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Fudoh
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Fudoh »

I would assume that the Corio isn't able to apply a perfect sampling rate to your 15khz source signal.

If you input an ED or HD signal with standard resolution you don't have that problem. Got an OSSC ? Try Analogue DAC -> OSSC -> Corio -> PVM instead.
trenog
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by trenog »

Fudoh wrote:I would assume that the Corio isn't able to apply a perfect sampling rate to your 15khz source signal.

If you input an ED or HD signal with standard resolution you don't have that problem. Got an OSSC ? Try Analogue DAC -> OSSC -> Corio -> PVM instead.
I don't own an OSSC so I won't be able to do that test, unfortunately.

When you say "sampling rate" do you mean the 15khz source signal coming out of the Analogue DAC?

Also, what is a good example of an ED or HD signal that I could throw at the Corio to confirm if this issue is specific to the Analogue DAC output?

Separately, I was thinking of purchasing an Extron device that could tell me the H-sync and V-sync frequencies so that I could better dial in the sync from my RGBS input signals into the Corio C2-2355a.
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Fudoh
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Fudoh »

When you say "sampling rate" do you mean the 15khz source signal coming out of the Analogue DAC?
yes, the OSSC likely can't sample the signal with its exact horizontal resolution. That's what can cause the trembling in a few selected vertical areas.
Also, what is a good example of an ED or HD signal that I could throw at the Corio to confirm if this issue is specific to the Analogue DAC output?
When you linedouble a 15khz signal your output will always be as close as possible to a VESA 640x480 or a SMPTE 720x480px signal and the Corio certainly won't have a problem with sampling those.
Separately, I was thinking of purchasing an Extron device that could tell me the H-sync and V-sync frequencies so that I could better dial in the sync from my RGBS input signals into the Corio C2-2355a.
not sure what's the point. Do you plan on using the Corio for anything else besides downscaling ?
trenog
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by trenog »

Fudoh wrote:
Also, what is a good example of an ED or HD signal that I could throw at the Corio to confirm if this issue is specific to the Analogue DAC output?
When you linedouble a 15khz signal your output will always be as close as possible to a VESA 640x480 or a SMPTE 720x480px signal and the Corio certainly won't have a problem with sampling those.
EDIT: I actually tried running the Mega-SG on its own through the C2-2355a using a HDMI -> DVI-D adapter (in RGBS output mode) and didn't see the sampling problem that I did with the Analogue DAC. So I'm just going to chalk this up to the Analogue DAC being something I never will plug into the Corio! :D
Fudoh wrote:
Separately, I was thinking of purchasing an Extron device that could tell me the H-sync and V-sync frequencies so that I could better dial in the sync from my RGBS input signals into the Corio C2-2355a.
not sure what's the point. Do you plan on using the Corio for anything else besides downscaling ?
No, the Corio is just for downscaling any 1080p/720p/480p 31KHz/15KHz signal to 240p 15KHz (source of either RGBS/RGsB/YPbPr).

My plan is to eventually add a GBS Control based on the GBS-8220 (dual VGA, already owned) to my setup and compare the output quality/lag to the Corio to see which is better for the lower end resolutions (480p/480i from YPbPr)

EDIT: I noticed that feeding the Corio the above Mega-SG 1080p60 output results in a "zoomed-out" picture compared to what the DAC outputs as part of its 240p mode, do you know why this is happening? I can't seem to modify the zoom in the menu to match the same screen space picture.
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orange808
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by orange808 »

Try the "Adjust Sources" menu and crop the image. If I recall correctly, it's better to crop in "Adjust Sources" versus make changes in "Adjust Windows". Might also tweak the pixel phase as best you can.
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trenog
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by trenog »

orange808 wrote:Try the "Adjust Sources" menu and crop the image. If I recall correctly, it's better to crop in "Adjust Sources" versus make changes in "Adjust Windows". Might also tweak the pixel phase as best you can.
I'll give it a shot!

Do you know if this Adjust Sources change is something that is unique per resolution or if it applies this change to all input sources? Would be problematic if I needed to adjust the crop for each console input :P
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Fudoh
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by Fudoh »

EDIT: I noticed that feeding the Corio the above Mega-SG 1080p60 output results in a "zoomed-out" picture compared to what the DAC outputs as part of its 240p mode, do you know why this is happening? I can't seem to modify the zoom in the menu to match the same screen space picture.
you will probably have a hard time getting an exact input pixel to output line match with a 1080p input. You basically want your active pixel to underscan ratio to be identical on your input and output. 240p, 480p and 720p all have the same ratio since they use integer scaling from 15khz sources (factors 1, 2 and 3). 1080p on the other hand needs an additional border on top of a 4x integer scale to get to 1080 lines of resolution. That additional underscan area will carry over through your conversion into your output signal, which isn't a good idea, since it gives you a very hard time to match each line of your original resolution to exactly one line of your output signal.
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orange808
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by orange808 »

trenog wrote:
orange808 wrote:Try the "Adjust Sources" menu and crop the image. If I recall correctly, it's better to crop in "Adjust Sources" versus make changes in "Adjust Windows". Might also tweak the pixel phase as best you can.
I'll give it a shot!

Do you know if this Adjust Sources change is something that is unique per resolution or if it applies this change to all input sources? Would be problematic if I needed to adjust the crop for each console input :P
I have a lot of profiles on my machine.

Fudoh is right about 1080p. Personally, I never got into using the C2 for anything besides 480p and 720p downscaling. Stick to 480p or 720p.

With 1080p, the only way you're going to get it "close to" dialed in is adding underscan to the output--and most people are very sensitive about "blank" areas on their display (particularly areas that wouldn't be blank if you fed native 240p from a real legacy console). I don't know if it's even possible to get it looking right with underscan.
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dinkelstefan
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by dinkelstefan »

Hey Guys I found a 1T-C2-250 Video scaler plus, with, composite and s-video inputs and a VGA PC/HD input/output. On first inspection it seemed like it was going to work, being able to add custom resolutions and all.

Sadly it looks like to be only able to scale the video inputs and not the vga. It does not respond to resolution changes while in VGA source. Resolution switching and downscaling does work fine on The video inputs tho. And I can downscale to 240p RGBS on these sources.

The VGA seems to only do loop through and PIP. But, when switching inputs I can see a downscaled vga input for a second before it shows the selected input. Implying that it does support some kind of downscaling internally.

Am I out of luck for VGA downscaling or are there other things I could try?


I was also thinking about hacking/flashing the firmware of the C2-400 if all else fails. Could anyone confirm if these have the same board number in the system info? Mine (the c2-250) has product type 25 and board type 49.
trenog
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Re: TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

Post by trenog »

So I gave the "Adjust Sources" adjustments a try and found more success/was happier with the "Adjust Windows" option actually.

For my A500 Mini what I was able to do was create two Presets:
1. "Pixel" adjust mode in "Adjust Windows" to create a 0,0,1280,720 Input and a x,y,720,240 Output to match the input signal and let the Corio handle the downscale based on the resolution difference (this may be redundant to the XML programming specifying 720x420 but I'm not sure...)
2. "Advanced" adjust mode in "Adjust Windows" to try and create a 4:3 Window for the A500 Mini's games which will have (at best) a 736×567i resolution. But because there isn't any consistency for that, I will probably need to define several resolutions and have several zoom tweaks for each of the resolutions that are for this console

Probably only going to put the Analogue DAC through my eventual GBS-C since the sample rate doesn't play nice from my previous testing with the Corio C2-2355a,
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