TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

[aloe]

Did I do something wrong here, or is it just that everyone's moved on from these devices now?

[kitty666cats]

I can chime in on the CorioScan and tell you that you’re not gonna get 240p out of it (I also have one!), but for 480i output it’s real nice and comparable to stuff like the Extron VSC-500. The SG is unique in that it also allows 480i on the input (most scan converters are a minimum of 24kHz for inputs), so you can also use it as a simple transcoder.

[Dochartaigh]

Hi. So I am kind of new to this process and trying to do as much research as possible. However, I'm still a little confused on what I need. I recently picked up a C2-750, which is DVI-based. I have two DVI to HDMI adapters for the inputs. I think I'm good there. But I am confused on how my output should look like? The goal is that I want to run a PS4 and Xbox One to the inputs using HDMI. And then I want to output 240p using component. What would be the best method? DVI to VGA and then to component? Also, how is everybody receiving audio on these units if they're using HDMI?

I'd appreciate any help!

Also, I apologize if this has been covered a bunch of times. I just can't seem to find everything.

Here's running an Xbox One in 1080p, downscaling to 240p with the Corio2. All that was needed was a Tendak (or similar) HDMI to VGA adapter (your C2-750 is DVI I think so a simple HDMI to DVI cable may work). Note that 1080p is widescreen, and I'm using a 16:9 bezel on my CRT - so normally the image will still be letterboxed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNVu9d4rcy4



Here's a similar use-case scenario, but showing some of the scaling/stretching I did to make the image fit the screen better - might be of help (sizing is covered on the first page of this tutorial as well).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JZkZgGud2s

Did I do something wrong here, or is it just that everyone's moved on from these devices now?

You did nothing wrong, but you're using 2x devices which aren't on the compatibility list, so unless somebody also gambled money on those to mess around with, they could very well just not be compatible with 240p output, sadly.

[aloe]

I can chime in on the CorioScan and tell you that you’re not gonna get 240p out of it (I also have one!),

The white one? Yeah, I read the manual so was confident it was a 480i-only output device when I bought it, I was just curious about it and wanted to have a play (and if anyone did ever figure out a way to force them to 240p, it'd be someone here). It does have control over panning the image and so on so may prove useful elsewhere.

The TVOne unit I knew was a gamble, it passes the OP's observations on good/bad units. For those units that can't do 240p, what does that failure state look like? Are they flickery, do they refuse to use the channel, or is there an error of some kind, or is it just a black screen like mine?

Also can anyone else out there confirm how loud these bigger ones are supposed to be? It's literally on the level of a vacuum cleaner.

[Dochartaigh]

Also can anyone else out there confirm how loud these bigger ones are supposed to be? It's literally on the level of a vacuum cleaner.

They should be pretty quiet (for full disclosure mine is rack-mounted which probably muffles sound a bit, and there's literally 6+ other devices with fans so overall I still get a hum going on, but nothing obnoxious). Think like the sound of a properly-working PS2 or Dreamcast (which have never bothered me much) if I had to guess.

I have a same size unit too, a C2-6104A, which had a bad fan in it (not loud, just not working, and it reports back it's not working which turns the unit off if my memory serves). I emailed TVOne and they told me the exact replacement fan to buy, I installed it and it works as brand-new.

[alvimjc]

Duplicated and can’t delete.

[alvimjc]

Hey everyone, I have recently acquired a C2-1250 and mostly planning to downscale my switch.
I have followed the steps to configure the new resolutions and think I managed to do it, but so far did not manage to get any images on my TV and also could not make the OSD appear on the TV.
I will maybe start fresh, and was wondering if anyone here would maybe have the xml files for this model?


Bests

[BVM-PVM]

I just got a tvone. Was wondering how can I do audio with my Xbox one hook up to it through hdmi?

[Dochartaigh]

I just got a tvone. Was wondering how can I do audio with my Xbox one hook up to it through hdmi?

To expand (since we were talking on FB about this): he's wanting to use HDMI out of the Xbox One. His C2-2350 has VGA/DB15 or DVI (DVI-U they call it - analog or digital) inputs. Neither of those (officially) run audio (along with video). The C2 also has Phoenix-like audio connectors (both input and output). Does he need some sort of HDMI audio extractor to pull the audio from the XBO's HDMI before it goes to the Corio2?

Common ways to input HDMI to a Corio2 is a Tendak (or whatever brand) HDMI to VGA converter (for use on ones like the popular VGA-only C2-400), but since his has DVI (which accepts digital signal) he should be able to use a common HDMI to DVI cable - are there cables or boxes which also have an audio out built into them?

(and I know I wrote this tutorial about these Corio2's... but I only use mine for 'retro' consoles like DC, OG Xbox, GC, etc. so I have no clue how people use more modern systems on them if I'm to be honest).

[kitty666cats]

You need a external powered device to extract audio from HDMI, there aren’t passive HDMI to DVI+audio cables. Getting an HDMI to VGA with audio out is probably the cheapest bet (and a DVI-A to VGA adapter if the C2 doesn’t have a VGA input)

[wwse]

DVI-D input on C2-2200 and similar models only for digital signals? Or for both digital and analog signals?
Will it work: PS3 HDMI - Tendak HDMI to VGA - Extron RGB-HDMI 300 - HDMI to DVI-D on Corio?

C2-2200 have on-screen menu or only menu on unit display?

[Dochartaigh]

You need a external powered device to extract audio from HDMI, there aren’t passive HDMI to DVI+audio cables. Getting an HDMI to VGA with audio out is probably the cheapest bet (and a DVI-A to VGA adapter if the C2 doesn’t have a VGA input)

I forgot to reply... looks like this is another win for that cheap Tendak HDMI to VGA converter (or similar). When I was editing this post the other day I noticed on the picture of the Tendak there's a 3.5mm audio out - so for people using that to get HDMI into their Corio2, problem solved - the cheap ~$15 Tendak rips audio out of HDMI for you.

If anybody knows of a good (and hopefully affordable, and easily obtainable) HDMI to DVI-D (Digital) + Audio extractor please post up!

DVI-D input on C2-2200 and similar models only for digital signals? Or for both digital and analog signals?
Will it work: PS3 HDMI - Tendak HDMI to VGA - VGA to DVI-D adapter or cable - DVI-D on Corio?

I actually edited the original post a couple days ago - I used to think that ALL the DVI-whatever ports took (or outputted) both digital AND analog signals, but that's not the case... (which is further confusing since all the DVI ports also seem to have those telltale 4x analog pin holes too!), but you really just have to pay attention to the fine print to tell....

For your 2200, and 2205, and 2350, and 2355, etc., on the input side it's VGA (analog) and DVI-D ("D" meaning Digital ONLY - most would use a simple HDMI to DVI cable I would guess; but you would still have to figure out audio on your own). Output side is VGA + DVI-I which will do analog AND digital (although I haven't tried digital output myself as I ONLY use these for downscaling which means a SD CRT for the most part = analog only).

Some Corio2's, like my C2-6104A have what they call "DVI-U" (which I think is literally a TVOne made-up term tbh), where both sides can use analog or digital (not aware if any other models might be this way too).

For your PS3 in particular HDMI to VGA might be the safer bet as my buddy had some HDMI HDCP? handshake type issues with his PS3, which converting to analog VGA eliminates I believe.

C2-2200 have on-screen menu or only menu on unit display?

All the units with a built-in LCD display (unless there's some setting I've been missing out on) do NOT have On-Screen Display (which can be a blessing for initial setup, but a curse if you sit so far away that you can't read that tiny screen on the unit).

[wwse]

I actually edited the original post a couple days ago - I used to think that ALL the DVI-whatever ports took (or outputted) both digital AND analog signals, but that's not the case... (which is further confusing since all the DVI ports also seem to have those telltale 4x analog pin holes too!), but you really just have to pay attention to the fine print to tell....

Now it is clear. I based on old information

For your PS3 in particular HDMI to VGA might be the safer bet as my buddy had some HDMI HDCP? handshake type issues with his PS3, which converting to analog VGA eliminates I believe.

I will try to use DVI-D input on C2 through HDMI splitter with HDCP removing for PS3.

All the units with a built-in LCD display (unless there's some setting I've been missing out on) do NOT have On-Screen Display (which can be a blessing for initial setup, but a curse if you sit so far away that you can't read that tiny screen on the unit).

it's sad.

[petroutsos]

I just bought a c2-750 on ebay and I'm going to do this tutorial. Thank you and I will give you my feedback.

[fvig2001]

So for 16:9 output, anyone figure out how to chop the non 4:3 parts without causing weird colors on the middle? I'm using corio2 750 to 240p and 480i.

Like I can chop off black bars easily but if it's kind of bright, the screen gets yellowish like white become yellow.

Also the dvi output is I'm assuming DVI-a. Any way to extract the sound too? Like tried DVI to HDMI and none of my TVs would get any signal. My HDMI to audio extractor can't get any sound either even though corio says it supports HDMI audio.

[orange808]

So for 16:9 output, anyone figure out how to chop the non 4:3 parts without causing weird colors on the middle? I'm using corio2 750 to 240p and 480i.

Like I can chop off black bars easily but if it's kind of bright, the screen gets yellowish like white become yellow.

Also the dvi output is I'm assuming DVI-a. Any way to extract the sound too? Like tried DVI to HDMI and none of my TVs would get any signal. My HDMI to audio extractor can't get any sound either even though corio says it supports HDMI audio.

I don't follow. You want to "stretch" the 4:3 image across the entire 16:9 screen? If that's the case, I doubt many of us here would have any advice. That's not a popular thing, because it doesn't look right

I guess you would take the "right side" off using the sampling settings and crop out the left with the scaler settings. Not something I would ever do.

[fvig2001]

No.

I want to effectively zoom in 16:9 to 4:3.

Color changes when this is done if the cut off parts are bright enough

Like white screens become yellowish.

[orange808]

No.

I want to effectively zoom in 16:9 to 4:3.

Color changes when this is done if the cut off parts are bright enough

Like white screens become yellowish.

Okay. I understand. You're cropping image image information on the left and right side of the screen.

I've only needed that to downscale a 4:3 image displayed pillarboxed inside a 720p 16:9 signal to proper "4:3" 240p. Although, doing that is tricky. It's hard to find just the right sampling and scaling settings to get a clean output from the C2 scaling engine, because it's an odd number of lines--and I remember the output aspect ratio was off by a few lines. It's surprising that it can be done at all with a sharp uniform output. I don't use that option, because 480p input downscales to 240p much easier and has a better aspect ratio result.

As far as cropping "active" image information on the sides of a 16:9 screen, I'll have to try that and get back to you.

If you use 480i often, you might look into an Extron scan converter for that in the future. The Corio2 interlaced output isn't very good. The machine doesn't offer enough options to tweak the interlacing process for maximum image quality. I only use the C2 for 240p output.

[Dochartaigh]

I want to effectively zoom in 16:9 to 4:3.

Color changes when this is done if the cut off parts are bright enough

Like white screens become yellowish.

You're using a CRT, right? Which exact model? If a high-end (even pro model), have you tried other lesser-high-end CRT's?

In the below video I show an Xbox 360 widescreen game in 720p on my widescreen multiformat CRT. The game is a Cave 4:3 shmup, pillarboxed on the left and right to fill in the 4:3 area to 720p's 16:9 widescreen. I then go to my 4:3 PVM-20L5 and adjust the Corio2's settings to have ONLY the 4:3 area of the game shown. This is what you want to achieve, right? If so, the video shows the settings I'm changing on the Corio2's LCD screen (you can also read the very first page 'scaling and centering' section of the tutorial).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JZkZgGud2s


You will ALSO notice in the video that as I adjust the Corio2 I get weird horizontal banding which darkens the image. If the content was lighter you might have seen whites turn a bit yellow like I think you're describing (you can kinda even see this in my video: at 33 seconds you can see how the bottom "Start up the game" goes from white, to reddish-white, to yellowish-white). As I adjust the settings a little more you'll see the image go back to normal.

This, as far as I can tell, is a problem with your CRT itself, and NOT the Corio2. Higher end PVM's and BVM's in particular do NOT like non-standard video timings, which stretching an image abnormally can lean towards - other CRT's might not like them either, but generally speaking I have WAY more issues on the higher end ones than a lower end PVM-20M2 or consumer set in my limited testing on those (mostly use the higher end ones TBH so experience is a bit less on the lower end models).

On the higher end models, like my Sony PVM-20L5 shown, I adjust the CPL DL Y (believe that stands for 'clamping delay'?) setting and it goes away:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRAb9N1jgSM

I believe my BVM-D20F1U has this setting as well. My BVM-20F1U does NOT have this setting (well, it does, but you can't change it) which means that sometimes I can't use my 2nd favorite monitor with the Corio2 at all... which SUCKS!!!



After I told a Redditer about the CPL DL Y setting, instead of him changing that, he messed with changing the 240p preset which also fixed it for him. He said he "adjusted the horizontal front and back porch numbers closer to those setting on the unit for 480p and it fixed without changing centering in my 14L5". Here's the screenshot he sent me:




...been meaning to try the above on my BVM-20F1U which doesn't have that CLP DL Y setting to see if it'll help... but I've slept on trying that for like a full year now lol (and have also slept on making another topic about this particular problem on my 20F1u, and other monitors without that CLP DL Y setting

[dennis808]

I stumbled upon a cheap Corio tvonetask on which I can't find any info at all. It's the 1T-C2-250 model, which only features PC/HD in and out via DB15, and separate CV and YC inputs.
I was wondering if I could use this unit to downscale my XBOX360, PS3 and Switch to 240P and send that to my PVM-20M4E.
Anybody ever heard about these units?

[orange808]

I stumbled upon a cheap Corio tvonetask on which I can't find any info at all. It's the 1T-C2-250 model, which only features PC/HD in and out via DB15, and separate CV and YC inputs.
I was wondering if I could use this unit to downscale my XBOX360, PS3 and Switch to 240P and send that to my PVM-20M4E.
Anybody ever heard about these units?

No. That machine won't do what you want. I can't think of any practical use case for that machine at all--for anyone (and I'm not exaggerating).

There's no way to feed progressive "high resolution" signals into the machine for downscaling and it's "standard" NTSC/PAL/SECAM processing is poor.

Keep hunting. A good one will turn up soon enough.

@Dochartaigh Can you add that one to list of C2 machines to avoid?

[Dochartaigh]

I stumbled upon a cheap Corio tvonetask on which I can't find any info at all. It's the 1T-C2-250 model, which only features PC/HD in and out via DB15, and separate CV and YC inputs.
I was wondering if I could use this unit to downscale my XBOX360, PS3 and Switch to 240P and send that to my PVM-20M4E.
Anybody ever heard about these units?

Not positive, but pretty sure that model won't work. I forget the exact number but I had a 1XX-2XX and it was also no good for our use... better to stick to the models listed in the compatible list.

You can manually program it and see what's up though... just know that if it actually does work (which again, I don't think so) only the DB15 will work with our 240p 'hack' (so RGBHV/RGBS/RGsB/Component ONLY) - I don't think anybody has gotten the S-Video/Composite output to work with 240p.

[orange808]

I stumbled upon a cheap Corio tvonetask on which I can't find any info at all. It's the 1T-C2-250 model, which only features PC/HD in and out via DB15, and separate CV and YC inputs.
I was wondering if I could use this unit to downscale my XBOX360, PS3 and Switch to 240P and send that to my PVM-20M4E.
Anybody ever heard about these units?

Not positive, but pretty sure that model won't work. I forget the exact number but I had a 1XX-2XX and it was also no good for our use... better to stick to the models listed in the compatible list.

You can manually program it and see what's up though... just know that if it actually does work (which again, I don't think so) only the DB15 will work with our 240p 'hack' (so RGBHV/RGBS/RGsB/Component ONLY) - I don't think anybody has gotten the S-Video/Composite output to work with 240p.

Can you please elaborate? That one has a passthrough 15 pin HD-15/DB-15/DE-15/"VGA" port.

Is there a firmware hack to get around the "passthrough" limitation on the HD-15? Is the TVOne documentation inaccurate?

If not, I am struggling to understand how a person would feed a progressive signal into the machine for downscaling.

It's my understanding that the C2-1T-250 has composite and svideo processed inputs, a purely passthrough HD-15 input, and an HD-15 output for upscaling deinterlaced NTSC/PAL/SECAM from the composite/svideo inputs.

https://www.tvone.com/products/video-sc ... /1t-c2-250

I can't figure out how that one would provide downscaling.

It's possible to say "we don't know because we never tested it", but I wouldn't ever advise purchasing a unit and trying to use it to do things the manufacturer specifically says it will not do: like applying processing to signals that come in from a "passthrough" input.

[Dochartaigh]

Can you please elaborate? That one has a passthrough 15 pin HD-15/DB-15/DE-15/"VGA" port

Honestly man, I didn't do anything but quickly pull up a picture of the back of it, zoomed-in and saw how the DB15's say "PC/HD IN", and "PC/HD SCALED OUT" just like the popular C2-400's have (which do work). Was also mistaken and thought the CV/YC was outputs like other models have, but they're input on this one.



Anyway, I thought the guy had already bought this so was just saying to give it a whirl, just in the far off case (why not? I know I did when I mistakenly bought a wrong model of these earlier on

[alex-terek]

It turned out to buy a new C2-2250A - confirm that 240p works. I connected the Nintendo Switch via a component cable through a PC / HD to a Sony pvm.
I had to slightly modify the xml file from the beginning of the topic in order to load it into my tvone. In order for pvm to detect switch, I had to set 480p in the Nintendo menu. 720p he has not seen.

I have a question about all these new Resolutions... I don't understand how they differ (240p MASTER/240P DC/240p PS2 and so on...) ?
I see the same parameters in the xml file.

[kardus]

Other than the ports, OSD and physical size of the unit, are there any significant differences between getting say a a c2- 00/700 vs a bigger unit like the C2 7100 or C2 8110? Assuming both are a similar price am I better off getting the beefier unit or are the smaller ones more reliable or expedient to use for this purpose?

[Dochartaigh]

Other than the ports, OSD and physical size of the unit, are there any significant differences between getting say a a c2- 00/700 vs a bigger unit like the C2 7100 or C2 8110? Assuming both are a similar price am I better off getting the beefier unit or are the smaller ones more reliable or expedient to use for this purpose?

I think a Corio2 chip is a Corio2 chip... the biggest difference seems to be the input and output (like physical connector) differences between models + if they have a LCD screen, or use an OSD (on-screen display).

Some (usually larger) units might have multiple C2 chips in them (like my 6401A, ability to scale 4x sources at once, but only 1x single output), some can output two different scaled outputs at once (forget which exact models do that). These can take up a lot more space though (which people commonly don't like) + some have annoying fans too.

I'm perfectly fine with the smallest? ones like the C2-400 (which used to be the cheapest and most plentiful too) which just have a DB15/VGA plug for the input and output... but that DB15 plug is super versatile and can take RGBS or Component (or RGBHV too) with a simple VGA to BNC breakout cable (which our PVM/BVM's and Extron stuff like Crosspoint switchers all take BNC connectors too, so it makes it simple).



The other common flavor of these seems to be DVI. This adds a digital component to so some units - i.e. a more-easy way to use HDMI.

If you don't care about digital/HDMI you can simply treat DVI as analog-only. Get a ~$5 DVI to VGA dongle and use all of your existing VGA to BNC cables for RGBS and YPbPr/Component - super easy method. They sell straight DVI to BNC cables too fyi.

On the DVI side (depending on the unit) –– and it's good if I mention (for those that don't know) that depending on the exact DVI connector, some DVI connectors like a "DVI-I" connector can take not only an analog signal, but a digital signal as well (there's certain pins on the same connector which do both). This can get a bit confusing though. TVOne likes to mess with you and put the same DVI-I connector on both the input and output side, but sometimes only the output (or is it the input only?) side will do digital AND analog, and the other side is analog ONLY (despite it physically having those digital pins on the connector) ...so have to read the manual to confirm and/or mess with it yourself.

So for those wanting to use HDMI, a HDMI to DVI cable or dongle WILL make your life easier if you use HDMI in your scaling setup. Honestly, I barely know this part of it since I'm nearly all analog (like many I SOLELY use my Corio2's for downscaling old 480p retro consoles like OG Xbox, PS2, Gamecube, and Dreamcast to 240p) ...so you'll have to figure out things like how to extract audio from your HDMI source you're downscaling and fun stuff like that... (which I would personally use the my Tendak HDMI to VGA + 3.5mm audio dongle I already own... which would make the unit having DVI to begin with a moot point lol, but whatever



Anyway, basically put, it'll either have VGA or DVI (always ignore the YPbPr BNC's if your unit has those), either of which is fine for how most of us use these.

[Unseen]

I think a Corio2 chip is a Corio2 chip...

At least in the TVone scalers I opened there is no Corio2 chip, they are FPGA-based.

Some (usually larger) units might have multiple C2 chips in them (like my 6401A, ability to scale 4x sources at once, but only 1x single output)

The C2-6104A just has a larger FPGA - an Altera Cyclone III EP3C55F780C8N - and five copies of the input circuit which uses an ADV7441A in this model. The analog output in there uses a THS8135 for analog, I can't decipher the chip for digital in the old picture I have on my phone.

[Dochartaigh]

I think a Corio2 chip is a Corio2 chip...

At least in the TVone scalers I opened there is no Corio2 chip, they are FPGA-based.

Some (usually larger) units might have multiple C2 chips in them (like my 6401A, ability to scale 4x sources at once, but only 1x single output)

The C2-6104A just has a larger FPGA - an Altera Cyclone III EP3C55F780C8N - and five copies of the input circuit which uses an ADV7441A in this model. The analog output in there uses a THS8135 for analog, I can't decipher the chip for digital in the old picture I have on my phone.

Totally get what you're saying, and thanks for the detail... but I'm speaking in higher level generalities that when a unit is marked "Corio2", with a "C2" model number, that ALL of them seem to have nearly the EXACT same "Corio2" features bestowed upon them, especially when we're specifically talking about the limited featureset we actually use to downscale to 240p. That it's internally via smaller or larger FPGA chip or whatnot really doesn't matter.

You can take the lowest end C2-400, with a mere 2x DB15 plugs on the back... and compare it to a fully featured (for example) C2-2355 with 2x DB15 + DVI-I + DVI-D + 3x YPbPr BNC's + YV/CV BNC ins and outs + SDI + Phoenix for audio + fancy LCD screen... and EVERYTHING most of us use on them is STILL the exact same between those two units lol. We'll most likely only use 2x plugs (DB15 or DVI) for input and output, ignore all the rest, and the menus we go into between these two units for the 240p stuff is identical.

Sure, some units like the 6104A give you the nicety of having 4x geometry banks which I think can be individually saved (which is perfect since I own 4x 480p-centric devices I like to downscale to 240p: OG Xbox, GC, DC, Xbox 360 Cave Shmups). The 750 and 2355 and many more models using DVI can make it easier to get HDMI into them, but still the Corio2 framework and it's workings is essentially the exact same between all of them – that's all I'm saying!

[alex-terek]

I have problems with CORIOtools suite. I successfully connect C2-2250a, but the "SIS and Logo" menu is not active.
I don't understand what I need to do. The device has the latest firmware. Tried different versions of the program.

but for now... new Zelda on sony pvm