Retro-Access cable configurator.

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orange808
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by orange808 »

FinalBaton wrote:The only annoying thing with vga cables is : you gotta have consoles that output csync. Now you can mod them, but personally I don't like modding my consoles. I'm afraid that if say I mod my SFC 1 chip-03 for csync, I'll inadvertently alter something in the video output. Plus I personally love the idea of stock consoles.

Also while I've been hard on SCART connectors in the past, I've got to say that when the time came for me to make an RGB cable for my Sony consumer set last winter, I really appreciated the SCART connector for it's bigger space between pins and headshell that accomodated all the wires(and even capacitors if need be) even if they weren't all cut to the perfect lenght(some were a bit longer but hey, no problem!). No way would have I been able to solder to a DE-15 connector!

But overall, if you can get all your consoles to output csync then I say go "DE-15 console cables". It's a more neat and tidy setup and the Extron routers for that connector are a lot smaller.
(but SCART is still fine of course)
Why would you need a mod?

People use sync strippers to get clean sync. You can't get RGB output without some kind of sync--and a sync stripper will get you clean sync from luma or composite sync.

Shouldn't need a mod.
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FinalBaton
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by FinalBaton »

orange808 wrote: Why would you need a mod?

People use sync strippers to get clean sync. You can't get RGB output without some kind of sync--and a sync stripper will get you clean sync from luma or composite sync.

Shouldn't need a mod.
I didn't know there were console DE-15 cables with sync strippers built into them, since the connector is kind of small I didn't expect the circuit to fit in there. You learn something everyday
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orange808
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by orange808 »

FinalBaton wrote:
orange808 wrote: Why would you need a mod?

People use sync strippers to get clean sync. You can't get RGB output without some kind of sync--and a sync stripper will get you clean sync from luma or composite sync.

Shouldn't need a mod.
I didn't know there were console DE-15 cables with sync strippers built into them, since the connector is kind of small I didn't expect the circuit to fit in there. You learn something everyday
I didn't say it was in the console to HD15 cable. :)

Furthermore, having multiple sync strippers (one in every cable) seems obtuse. Just add one to your chain upstream. Why spend so much time and effort when the job can be done *just once* later in the chain?

The HSync pin doesn't care what I send on it.
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FinalBaton
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by FinalBaton »

orange808 wrote:I didn't say it was in the console to HD15 cable. :)

Furthermore, having multiple sync strippers (one in every cable) seems obtuse. Just add one to your chain upstream. Why spend so much time and effort when the job can be done *just once* later in the chain?

The HSync pin doesn't care what I send on it.
Ah well you see I was talking about mvsfan's idea of having only a DE-15 running from console to an Extron switch, with no adapter/sync stripper box whatsoever in-between



In your example, are luma sync and composite video sync console's video sent through an DE-15 cable too? I didn't know you could send those sync signal through DE-15 cable(didn't know they had luma and composite video lines). And what stripping device do you have that has multiple input?

Sorry but I have trouble wrapping my head around some of that stuff
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bobrocks95
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by bobrocks95 »

FinalBaton wrote:
orange808 wrote:I didn't say it was in the console to HD15 cable. :)

Furthermore, having multiple sync strippers (one in every cable) seems obtuse. Just add one to your chain upstream. Why spend so much time and effort when the job can be done *just once* later in the chain?

The HSync pin doesn't care what I send on it.
Ah well you see I was talking about mvsfan's idea of having only a DE-15 running from console to an Extron switch, with no adapter whatsoever in-between



In your example, are luma sync and cvbs sync console's video sent through an DE-15 cable too? I didn't know you could send those sync signal through DE-15 cable(didn't know they had luma and composite video lines). And what stripping device do you have that has multiple input?

Sorry but I have trouble wrapping my head around some of that stuff
You can run luma or composite video through a DE-15 cable just fine. The issue is if you're using Extron VGA switches, they will not accept anything other than CSync. Maybe other VGA switches would?

I have a DE-15 PS1 cable with a sync stripper on the console end of the cable. So you're right, I'm pretty sure the DE-15 connector would be too small to fit a sync stripper, but could fit in the console end. Retro-access has a SNES DE-15 cable with a sync stripper which is just what you're looking for if you want your console to remain stock.

At the end of the day, most consoles support CSync, right? PS1, PS2, and 1-Chip SNES, and maybe some PAL consoles are all that comes to mind as not supporting it. So it's not a huge investment in sync strippers, imo.
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Syntax
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by Syntax »

The lack of blanking 5v doesn't help either.

I have 2 sets blanking via USB and the rest have been opened and a switch for blanking installed.
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orange808
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by orange808 »

Oh yes, the ever popular Crosspoint. :) With it's wonderful phoenix audio connectors, exclusive clean sync input, and craptastic forced TTL sync output.

;) Now, I wonder why they're so cheap? ;)

( Just kidding, they're cheap because they're a pain in the arse. )

Yes, there are plenty of powered switches that simply accept and pass on the signals on the sync line. I have two Kramer switches that don't care.
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mvsfan
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by mvsfan »

The MVX is a much better setup although it still uses phoenix connectors at least it doesnt have all those Bncs.

unless you need more than 16 inputs then your stuck with the crosspoint.
dseleski
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by dseleski »

Makinx wrote:The cable configurator doesn't work properly for me. When I add the cable to cart, it just goes to a loading screen forever. Does anyone else have this problem?
We’re working on this, it seems the code stops working after a period of time, we have to load old versions of the products back in... then those break after a period of time. The dev who wrote the custom builder is working on the site at the moment but they keep putting “copy of xyz” up there to test on that’s visible on the site. So if you see that, it’s not our doing. We’d program our own if we had the time... fact is we really don’t but I suppose if this continues we might start working on this.

If anyone is having difficulty for now, screenshot the “summary” and send it to us - we’ll invoice you off-site and hopefully the situation will improve soon.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by maxtherabbit »

bobrocks95 wrote:
At the end of the day, most consoles support CSync, right? PS1, PS2, and 1-Chip SNES, and maybe some PAL consoles are all that comes to mind as not supporting it. So it's not a huge investment in sync strippers, imo.
I really don't get the pissing and moaning about extrons requiring csync, and the output is easily attenuated if your monitor can't handle TTL.

We're talking about one additional resistor and a stripper for your playstation, that's it unless you have a 1CHIP-03 or PAL stuff
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by mvsfan »

a couple years ago i used to see a lot of MVX 168 and 1616 switches for sale on ebay but now i dont even see 1.

I have the 128 and i wish i would have bought one of those instead. i only have 1 empty input left.
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Syntax
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by Syntax »

I couldnt find an MVX 1616 but ended up with a mint SMX with 1616 vga and audio in the smallest case for next to nothing.

The fans are loud as though.
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Syntax
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by Syntax »

As for the phoenix connectors, one of our members arithmaldor has been nice enough to put a 3.5mm pcb design up on OSH park.

Image
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FinalBaton
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by FinalBaton »

maxtherabbit wrote:I really don't get the pissing and moaning about extrons requiring csync, and the output is easily attenuated if your monitor can't handle TTL.

We're talking about one additional resistor and a stripper for your playstation, that's it unless you have a 1CHIP-03 or PAL stuff
I like Extron machines myself, as they have ZERO signal degradation (as can be seen in the MLIG video), which is not that easy to achieve. In fact it is quite rare. And are cheap and come in many configuarations.

I don't find phoenix connectors to be bad, in fact the flip side is that they easily allow you to make your wiring. But even then, there are some Extron vga matrixes that have 3.5mm jacks for audio (the ARS series I think?)


Speaking of that : my Super Famicom is a 1 Chip-03
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nmalinoski
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by nmalinoski »

maxtherabbit wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
At the end of the day, most consoles support CSync, right? PS1, PS2, and 1-Chip SNES, and maybe some PAL consoles are all that comes to mind as not supporting it. So it's not a huge investment in sync strippers, imo.
I really don't get the pissing and moaning about extrons requiring csync, and the output is easily attenuated if your monitor can't handle TTL.

We're talking about one additional resistor and a stripper for your playstation, that's it unless you have a 1CHIP-03 or PAL stuff
"CSync" in this context means "clean composite sync", correct? Because I'm used to seeing "CSync" simply mean composite sync, which both composite video and luma carry; so, PS1, PS2, and SNES all technically carry CSync, but, of those three, only the SNES (Certain models?) provides clean, TTL-level composite sync.
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by maxtherabbit »

nmalinoski wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
At the end of the day, most consoles support CSync, right? PS1, PS2, and 1-Chip SNES, and maybe some PAL consoles are all that comes to mind as not supporting it. So it's not a huge investment in sync strippers, imo.
I really don't get the pissing and moaning about extrons requiring csync, and the output is easily attenuated if your monitor can't handle TTL.

We're talking about one additional resistor and a stripper for your playstation, that's it unless you have a 1CHIP-03 or PAL stuff
"CSync" in this context means "clean composite sync", correct? Because I'm used to seeing "CSync" simply mean composite sync, which both composite video and luma carry; so, PS1, PS2, and SNES all technically carry CSync, but, of those three, only the SNES (Certain models?) provides clean, TTL-level composite sync.
correct, saying "csync" without any additional qualifiers is generally understood to mean composite sync as a discreet signal on its own wire

voltage level can vary: 300mVpp, 3.3Vpp LVTTL, or full bore 5Vpp TTL

technically yes CBVS and luma contain composite sync, but I've never heard anyone refer to CSYNC as anything other than a discreet signal
dseleski
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by dseleski »

orange808 wrote:Oh yes, the ever popular Crosspoint. :) With it's wonderful phoenix audio connectors, exclusive clean sync input, and craptastic forced TTL sync output.

;) Now, I wonder why they're so cheap? ;)

( Just kidding, they're cheap because they're a pain in the arse. )

Yes, there are plenty of powered switches that simply accept and pass on the signals on the sync line. I have two Kramer switches that don't care.
I think more likely they are cheap because people weigh up the cost of the cable and the fact SCART is accessible, albeit badly at an entry level pricepoint of like $4 for a crap eBay cable with cheaper switchboxes like Hama. They’re just more likely to have Scart when they get into the hobby, because it’s not possible to produce coax (Bnc cabling requires it) BNC cabling on the cheap, nor has it saturated into the market enough to mass produce from China. So while these setups are available on eBay and the like for secondhand aftermarket prices, people don’t buy them because the cabling is still - by necessity - not cheap.

However, it *is* the professional solution. These setups were originally used in broadcast studios, sending analogue signals across long distances. They are impedance controlled - not lossy, not prone to interference.

There IS an extron that passes on the signal sans processing - but it’s only a 6 switch max (2 variants exist, one 4 Switch, one 6) with one output.

As far as the sync amplification goes though, RGBS through a 15 pin Dsub or BNCs is *supposed* to be TTL. Like the RGBHV standard used in VGA, monitors that work with these signals expect TTL level - some can go as low as 0.5vpp under load but in general they require a higher level than is expected by TV tech. What this means is that if you use them with TV tech you need an inline resistor, but if you use them on monitors, you usually don’t.

This is not really a huge deal to be quite honest.
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by mvsfan »

I have the Mvx setup where 1 output is going to a tv and the other output is going to a PVM.

the cable going to the tv has a resistor in it. its really not a big deal, nor would you have to put resistors on your input cables, only the outputs going to tvs.
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orange808
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by orange808 »

As if Kramer ** ISN'T ** "professional" gear. :roll:

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maxtherabbit
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by maxtherabbit »

orange808 wrote:As if Kramer ** ISN'T ** "professional" gear. :roll:

I like me some turtles.
no one said kramer isn't professional, kramer still uses BNCs which is what the "professional" comment was referencing
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by bobrocks95 »

orange808 wrote:As if Kramer ** ISN'T ** "professional" gear. :roll:

I like me some turtles.
Huh? Are you talking about the FC-4? I don't see that Kramer ever made a SCART switch.

SCART was a consumer standard regardless of what you say about it, so high-quality equipment (splitters, switches, amplifiers, etc.) is harder to find.

Doesn't stop a company from making any, but why make studio-grade equipment for a connector that no studio uses? You're left with a small market of AV nuts.
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orange808
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by orange808 »

bobrocks95 wrote:
orange808 wrote:As if Kramer ** ISN'T ** "professional" gear. :roll:

I like me some turtles.
Huh? Are you talking about the FC-4? I don't see that Kramer ever made a SCART switch.

SCART was a consumer standard regardless of what you say about it, so high-quality equipment (splitters, switches, amplifiers, etc.) is harder to find.

Doesn't stop a company from making any, but why make studio-grade equipment for a connector that no studio uses? You're left with a small market of AV nuts.

I was involved in discussion of HD15/DE15. :)

Then, we started discussing sending a combined sync signal down the HSYNC pin of an HD15/DE15.

That's when the Crosspoint's idiosyncrasies came into play.

Kramer never built SCART switches that I know of. (Their SCART gear is limited--and I haven't found much of it here in the states. That doesn't mean people shouldn't be looking. That SCART to component converter they built has the same analog internals as the FC-14. A wonderful transcoder.)
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dseleski
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by dseleski »

note: I don’t have a Kramer switch, we only have Extrons. They’re fine if you can figure out/measure the voltages on output and indeed input because some attenuated cables run too low for some of them. If you can’t, if you’re unsure, just ask: the manuals are completely transparent about what they do, if anything to the sync, as are manuals for pvm monitors.

At any rate the issues with the cable builder are now fixed. It still might take a while to load in - it sometimes does but everything should work now.
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Lawfer
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by Lawfer »

I don't understand, what is this "No Audio Line" vs "Audio Line in Plug" from the "Source Connector" category? I want to have audio, but only from 2 RCA Plugs from the "Destination Audio" area. If I choose "No Audio Line" in the "Source Connector" category, does that mean that even with RCA Plugs from the "Destination Audio" category I won't get any sound?
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by mvsfan »

sounds like you want the one that says Audio line in video connector.
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by nmalinoski »

Lawfer wrote:I don't understand, what is this "No Audio Line" vs "Audio Line in Plug" from the "Source Connector" category? I want to have audio, but only from 2 RCA Plugs from the "Destination Audio" area. If I choose "No Audio Line" in the "Source Connector" category, does that mean that even with RCA Plugs from the "Destination Audio" category I won't get any sound?
"Audio Line in Plug" means that that end of the cable is getting audio from the console (Versus, for example, a right-angle 3.5mm plug to get stereo from the front of the Genesis, versus mono from its AV port), and "No Audio Line" means the that end of the cable isn't wired for audio at all.
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Lawfer
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Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.

Post by Lawfer »

nmalinoski wrote:"Audio Line in Plug" means that that end of the cable is getting audio from the console (Versus, for example, a right-angle 3.5mm plug to get stereo from the front of the Genesis, versus mono from its AV port), and "No Audio Line" means the that end of the cable isn't wired for audio at all.
Thanks, I wasn't sure, especially since by default it's set to "no audio line".
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