shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:02 pm View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:52 pm 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 1181
Just noticed that retro-access.com has launched 2 custom RGB cable configurators.

One is for SCART and one is for DSUB cables.

Finally, someone has Cables available as a regular option with a vga pinout.

I just ordered a sega saturn cable for a extron mvx.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:09 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 577
Neat! All they're missing is a 5x BNC option for ordering BNC to VGA cables, and a handful of connector types that they don't [yet?] have, like Dreamcast and Xbox.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:52 pm 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 1181
Last time i asked them, they couldnt source dreamcast connectors. so i sent them one and got a cable built for it. but youd have to ask them first.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:51 pm 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 1181
does anyone know which pins on the scart connector on the csy2100 that ID hook RGBS input to? what about audio?

I want to put a vga connector on the csy-2100. Im done with scart. I only have this one connection left and I still have issues with it.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:49 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 437
Location: San Jose, CA
2018 will be the year of D-SUB RGB cables.
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:28 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Apr 2017
Posts: 57
Location: TX
Finally. I, too, have an Extron MVX. I have not yet been able to deploy it because I haven’t been able to buy DE-15 cables for my Segas and PSOne. I’ve been using the 5 input manual Bandridge SCART switch, and it’s ok, but it only has five ins and a single out and that horrid connector. My MVX is an 84, so I can have each of my consoles, my good VA LCD, my PC CRT, my RGB TV, and a capture device all hooked up permanently. I hate having to plug and unplug cables when I just want to play a game.

Also, I’ve been thinking of trying to convert my existing cheap SCART cables to DE15 to save some cash. Does anyone have any experience or insight to share on that topic?

MVSFAN, the CSY most likely uses the standard EU SCART pinout. This page has the information you need: https://www.leadsdirect.co.uk/technical ... rt-wiring/


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:10 pm 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 1181
yeah but which ones would i use the input pins or output? and where should i hook ground to?

that last scart plug needs to go. I still get a loose cable there sometimes and it affect my red color signal.

i constantly lose red on my screen and have to mess with that connection.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:14 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 09 Aug 2017
Posts: 902
Location: Australia
mvsfan wrote:
yeah but which ones would i use the input pins or output? and where should i hook ground to?

that last scart plug needs to go. I still get a loose cable there sometimes and it affect my red color signal.

i constantly lose red on my screen and have to mess with that connection.


input pins http://www.nightfallcrew.com/wp-content ... pinout.png


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:22 am 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Apr 2012
Posts: 2123
Location: Kentucky
I custom ordered DSUB cables from retro-access's ebay page (retro_console_accessories) a couple of years ago and just want to throw in a voucher for their quality. My cables were around $30-35 each, but they didn't include coax wiring, so prices seem improved with the new ordering system as well.

They work great with my Extron SW12 VGA Ars, which is a 12 input 2 output VGA switch that fortunately uses 3.5mm connectors for audio instead of pheonix connectors. Extron also made 6 and 8 input versions- I'd recommend the switch highly.
The only thing I'm not sure of is if this switch messes with sync levels on the output, since it's meant for true VGA devices. It's likely CSync only as well, or at least that was what everyone said to expect when I first asked about it.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:17 am 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Mar 2018
Posts: 220
mikejmoffitt wrote:
2018 will be the year of D-SUB RGB cables.

The king is dead, long live the king


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:32 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 577
bobrocks95 wrote:
They work great with my Extron SW12 VGA Ars, which is a 12 input 2 output VGA switch that fortunately uses 3.5mm connectors for audio instead of pheonix connectors. Extron also made 6 and 8 input versions- I'd recommend the switch highly.

Where did you source yours? I've only ever seen the 4- and 6-input/single output ones on eBay.

bobrocks95 wrote:
The only thing I'm not sure of is if this switch messes with sync levels on the output, since it's meant for true VGA devices. It's likely CSync only as well, or at least that was what everyone said to expect when I first asked about it.

The manual doesn't say anything about supporting luma or composite video as sync (as far as I could find), so you should expect it to only support clean sync; but, of course, since you already own the switch, this is something you could fairly easily test on your by connecting composite video to the HSync/CSync line with a BNC<->VGA adapter and a female BNC to female RCA adapter.

This switcher also advertises YPbPr support ("HDTV"), which means it can at least take luma as sync on the green line, which should mean that it is also capable of switching S-Video, and might even switch composite video.

The manual also says it only outputs 5V TTL sync, so beware connecting the output of this thing directly to consumer gear or, for example, AV1 on the OSSC.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:54 am 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Apr 2012
Posts: 2123
Location: Kentucky
nmalinoski wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
They work great with my Extron SW12 VGA Ars, which is a 12 input 2 output VGA switch that fortunately uses 3.5mm connectors for audio instead of pheonix connectors. Extron also made 6 and 8 input versions- I'd recommend the switch highly.

Where did you source yours? I've only ever seen the 4- and 6-input/single output ones on eBay.


Unfortunately no secrets here, I just found it on ebay. In case you aren't already doing it, try to search in broader terms- I think I literally just searched for "VGA switch" and came across it. If it's hard to find, you might have to get lucky with someone listing it incorrectly or poorly.

Extron also seems to still sell the 8 input version, I'm sure it'll be expensive though. Unless they're trying to clear it out- I contacted Audio Authority one time to ask about an old component switch they used to make and the engineer said they could offer me an NOS one for $100, which was a tiny fraction of the original price (still more than I paid for a used one though).

Quote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
The only thing I'm not sure of is if this switch messes with sync levels on the output, since it's meant for true VGA devices. It's likely CSync only as well, or at least that was what everyone said to expect when I first asked about it.

The manual also says it only outputs 5V TTL sync, so beware connecting the output of this thing directly to consumer gear or, for example, AV1 on the OSSC.


This was something I was afraid of, but only realized it could be a potential problem when everyone was getting really into CSync attenuation however many months ago. My component converter probably isn't liking TTL sync, but I'm not sure I can justify replacing it.

Is there a simple way to attenuate a sync signal on a VGA, BNC, RCA, or SCART connector? Yes, I am running the output of this switch through all 4 via adapters and it's as gross as it sounds. I'd prefer not to have to pop something open and solder a resistor to it, but if I have to oh well.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:34 am 


User avatar

Joined: 27 Apr 2015
Posts: 503
Location: Bellingham, WA
Do they make SCART to D-sub adapters for those who don't want to buy all new system cords but like the option of VGA interface?

Also I like the auto switching and decent picture preservation of banbrige. Would I be able to have a good auto switch with one of those Extron monsters?

I do really hate how the scart cords fall apart and unplug themselves from the banbrige and I don't feel like doing the mod either.
_________________
Copyright 1987


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:02 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 706
Location: Italy
Scart to d-sub adapters are nonexistent (as are proper scart to vga cables - unless custom made), so two adapters need to be chained (scart to bnc and bnc to vga).

I'm pretty sure that Extron machines only mess with the sync level when sync is on a separate wire, so Ypbpr and RGsB out of Extron's should be safe for use with every device that supports them.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:45 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 577
bobrocks95 wrote:
Is there a simple way to attenuate a sync signal on a VGA, BNC, RCA, or SCART connector? Yes, I am running the output of this switch through all 4 via adapters and it's as gross as it sounds. I'd prefer not to have to pop something open and solder a resistor to it, but if I have to oh well.

Yeah, Retro-Access sells an inline attenuator for BNC applications.

Xer Xian wrote:
Scart to d-sub adapters are nonexistent (as are proper scart to vga cables - unless custom made), so two adapters need to be chained (scart to bnc and bnc to vga).

DSub and VGA are synonymous when talking about cables, unless by DSub you mean those old 9-pin, serial-lookin' RGB outputs on really old Japanese computer hardware; and you're not going to get VGA (RGBHV) out of SCART without an inline sync stripper/separator, whether or not it's baked into the cable.

Xer Xian wrote:
I'm pretty sure that Extron machines only mess with the sync level when sync is on a separate wire, so Ypbpr and RGsB out of Extron's should be safe for use with every device that supports them.

I believe this is the case as well; all of composite, S-Video, YPbPr, RGsB, and RsGsBs (not that we ever use that last one) operate entirely on the R, G, and B lines, which need to remain a within a particular Vp-p range (1Vp-p?) to remain within spec, so those will never be boosted to TTL levels.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:32 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Apr 2012
Posts: 2123
Location: Kentucky
Hoagtech wrote:
Do they make SCART to D-sub adapters for those who don't want to buy all new system cords but like the option of VGA interface?

Also I like the auto switching and decent picture preservation of banbrige. Would I be able to have a good auto switch with one of those Extron monsters?

I do really hate how the scart cords fall apart and unplug themselves from the banbrige and I don't feel like doing the mod either.


My output chain is a VGA to BNC cable > BNC to RCA adapters > RCA to SCART adapter. A bit overkill, so I don't know that you'd really want to make the switch. When I did, I think I only had 2 SCART cables, so it was worth the re-investment.

The VGA Ars switch has auto switching that's worked perfectly so far, and they support resolutions of up to 2048 × 1536, so they're absolute overkill for 15kHz signals and have no apparent quality loss. If size is a concern the 2, 4, and 6 input switches have half the footprint of the 8 and 12.

nmalinoski wrote:
Yeah, Retro-Access sells an inline attenuator for BNC applications.


Perfect, exactly what I was hoping for.

Quote:
I believe this is the case as well; all of composite, S-Video, YPbPr, RGsB, and RsGsBs (not that we ever use that last one) operate entirely on the R, G, and B lines, which need to remain a within a particular Vp-p range (1Vp-p?) to remain within spec, so those will never be boosted to TTL levels.


RGB line voltages match the input voltages according to the manual, so yeah no messing with voltage there.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:29 pm 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 1181
the extron mvx always outputs TTL. to use it with a standard tv the output cable needs to be attenuated to 75 ohm, thats it.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:36 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 29 May 2016
Posts: 19
Location: Malaysia
Could this be the solution to finally get the working scart (via gscartsw) to DSUB15 (extron 203rxi) ?

What do you think of this configuration to get the output from gscartsw to extron 203rxi ?

Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:52 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 871
amontre wrote:
Could this be the solution to finally get the working scart (via gscartsw) to DSUB15 (extron 203rxi) ?


I've had good luck with the Wookie Win SCART to BNC cable with sync stripper. I use that cable to feed an Extron RGB and get RGBHV.

The low pass filter in the gscartsw switch provides the luxury of feeding the OSSC directly on AV3. (The only annoyance is buggy detection of 480i, but that's got nothing to do with the cables.)


-------

Also:

All this DSUB talk is confusing.

I always believed DB or DSUB has two rows of pins. The 15 pin DSUB pinout went out of style long ago.

I think we are all referencing the modern HD15 three row RGBHV pinout that was made popular by PC VGA cards and monitors.
_________________
We apologize for the inconvenience


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:02 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 29 May 2016
Posts: 19
Location: Malaysia
orange808 wrote:
amontre wrote:
Could this be the solution to finally get the working scart (via gscartsw) to DSUB15 (extron 203rxi) ?


I've had good luck with the Wookie Win SCART to BNC cable with sync stripper. I use that cable to feed an Extron RGB and get RGBHV.

The low pass filter in the gscartsw switch provides the luxury of feeding the OSSC directly on AV3. (The only annoyance is buggy detection of 480i, but that's got nothing to do with the cables.)


-------

Also:

All this DSUB talk is confusing.

I always believed DB or DSUB has two rows of pins. The 15 pin DSUB pinout went out of style long ago.

I think we are all referencing the modern HD15 three row RGBHV pinout that was made popular by PC VGA cards and monitors.


Apologies...it's the HD15 or vga connector (what we call them here in my country). I'm not sure the Wookie would work since 203rxi take HD15 input.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:27 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 577
amontre wrote:
orange808 wrote:
amontre wrote:
Could this be the solution to finally get the working scart (via gscartsw) to DSUB15 (extron 203rxi) ?


I've had good luck with the Wookie Win SCART to BNC cable with sync stripper. I use that cable to feed an Extron RGB and get RGBHV.

The low pass filter in the gscartsw switch provides the luxury of feeding the OSSC directly on AV3. (The only annoyance is buggy detection of 480i, but that's got nothing to do with the cables.)


-------

Also:

All this DSUB talk is confusing.

I always believed DB or DSUB has two rows of pins. The 15 pin DSUB pinout went out of style long ago.

I think we are all referencing the modern HD15 three row RGBHV pinout that was made popular by PC VGA cards and monitors.


Apologies...it's the HD15 or vga connector (what we call them here in my country). I'm not sure the Wookie would work since 203rxi take HD15 input.

DE-15. :)


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:11 pm 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 1181
amontre wrote:
Could this be the solution to finally get the working scart (via gscartsw) to DSUB15 (extron 203rxi) ?

What do you think of this configuration to get the output from gscartsw to extron 203rxi ?

Image



for that Extron side it looks like you need a 3.5mm for the audio not rca, as you have now.

its an option in the configurator.

or, you could just not run the audio through the extron. its not nessecary unless your planning on using some of the other inputs on the extron, besides rgb.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:29 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Apr 2012
Posts: 2123
Location: Kentucky
Does anyone think there would be an advantage to running a full-length separate audio connector rather than running it in the same bundle as everything else? Retro-access is using shielded coax cables for this, but the option is also there to run the audio separately at the length of the whole cable, rather than a small breakout at the destination end of the cable.

Would that potentially reduce cross-talk/coupling/buzz? Or would it not matter given the shielding?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:52 am 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Mar 2018
Posts: 220
bobrocks95 wrote:
Does anyone think there would be an advantage to running a full-length separate audio connector rather than running it in the same bundle as everything else? Retro-access is using shielded coax cables for this, but the option is also there to run the audio separately at the length of the whole cable, rather than a small breakout at the destination end of the cable.

Would that potentially reduce cross-talk/coupling/buzz? Or would it not matter given the shielding?

from my conversations with him, they're using true 75ohm mini coax - I don't think bundling them is going to do anything at all


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:24 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 577
maxtherabbit wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
Does anyone think there would be an advantage to running a full-length separate audio connector rather than running it in the same bundle as everything else? Retro-access is using shielded coax cables for this, but the option is also there to run the audio separately at the length of the whole cable, rather than a small breakout at the destination end of the cable.

Would that potentially reduce cross-talk/coupling/buzz? Or would it not matter given the shielding?

from my conversations with him, they're using true 75ohm mini coax - I don't think bundling them is going to do anything at all

When each wire is fully-shielded like that, you might as well keep them running together. I would prefer a single cable like that, with the audio breakout at the end of the cable, rather than have an audio breakout at the console and have to worry about sourcing and running yet another cable for one console.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:59 am 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 1181
Scart-to-vga adapters are pointless and totally miss the idea of going with vga cables in the first place.

by having vga cables made, You eliminate the loose connections that scart is famous for.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:06 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 577
mvsfan wrote:
Scart-to-vga adapters are pointless and totally miss the idea of going with vga cables in the first place.

by having vga cables made, You eliminate the loose connections that scart is famous for.

For permanent setups, I agree; but I can't imagine it's always feasible or in the budget to just buy DE-15 cables for all your consoles.

I think it would make sense to have one or two adapters handy, especially if you're in the process of transitioning from SCART to VGA equipment. The adapters will help you test integration with switches and other hardware without fully committing financially.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:47 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 3037
Location: Québec City
The only annoying thing with vga cables is : you gotta have consoles that output csync. Now you can mod them, but personally I don't like modding my consoles. I'm afraid that if say I mod my SFC 1 chip-03 for csync, I'll inadvertently alter something in the video output. Plus I personally love the idea of stock consoles.

Also while I've been hard on SCART connectors in the past, I've got to say that when the time came for me to make an RGB cable for my Sony consumer set last winter, I really appreciated the SCART connector for it's bigger space between pins and headshell that accomodated all the wires(and even capacitors if need be) even if they weren't all cut to the perfect lenght(some were a bit longer but hey, no problem!). No way would have I been able to solder to a DE-15 connector!

But overall, if you can get all your consoles to output csync then I say go "DE-15 console cables". It's a more neat and tidy setup and the Extron routers for that connector are a lot smaller.
(but SCART is still fine of course)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:05 pm 



Joined: 06 Mar 2017
Posts: 77
The cable configurator doesn't work properly for me. When I add the cable to cart, it just goes to a loading screen forever. Does anyone else have this problem?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Retro-Access cable configurator.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:07 pm 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 1181
My playstation is using luma for sync. the cable i have for it is converting it to csync. you could probably do the same thing with your Snes.

btw, console5.com sells a kit now, to properly restore the csync line on your 1-chip-03. it basically adds the missing components from the -01 and -02. Its some small surface mount components to solder though, kind of a pita if your not used to it.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bratwurst, djvinc, HalfCent, Hoagtech, johndp977, Kez and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group