Good, cheap alternatives to the Framemeister?...

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dave4shmups
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Good, cheap alternatives to the Framemeister?...

Post by dave4shmups »

There are some European/PAL consoles that I’d like to import, and as much respect as I have for the Framemeister, and what it can do, I just don’t want to shell out the money for one. I know that there are SCART to HDMI converters that cost around $50.00 on sites like Amazon, but I’ve heard that they’re cheaply made, and unreliable. I don’t know if that’s true, though.
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Gara
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Re: Good, cheap alternatives to the Framemeister?...

Post by Gara »

Are you looking for rgb scart to hdmi? Ossc is cheaper and works great if your display will take the higher modes. Retrotink 2x is pretty cheap but no rgb scart. It will take Svideo and composite though.

Everything else is crap and you're compromising on quality for price. If you're going for original hardware over emulation then that's probably something you care about. Compromise too much and you may as well emulate.
nmalinoski
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Re: Good, cheap alternatives to the Framemeister?...

Post by nmalinoski »

What, exactly, do you need? Do you need something that can convert 50Hz to 60Hz? Do PAL->NTSC conversion? Something to simply connect your consoles to an OSSC or RetroTINK 2X? Do you specifically need RGB or YPbPr? Do you want a switch so you can keep your consoles connected? Do you have any preexisting need for a specific connector type like SCART, DE-15/VGA, RCA, or BNC; or are you starting fresh?
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AndehX
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Re: Good, cheap alternatives to the Framemeister?...

Post by AndehX »

The cheapest solution that is on par with the retro tink and comes close to the framemeister is the GBS8200 with Rama's gbscontrol firmware. It's an excellent solution and very cheap, but requires a bit of soldering and DIY. If you don't mind the DIY though, it's definitely the best solution for the price.
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Re: Good, cheap alternatives to the Framemeister?...

Post by Catzoo »

OSSC is still something Framemeister owners do want for some reason (so it's not a "cheap" solution) but it's half the price. If you can afford that, go for it without a doubt, i'm sure you'll find way more usage than just european console.

if the OSSC price is still too much for you, you could consider the retrotink 2x and try to find S-video cables for your consoles, but i was not something really common here, we use to have Composite or RGB for most consoles. I guess most EU consoles will work just fine with an S-video cable, but i cannot confirm any of it.

Quality / price wise, if you're willing to go for something like the FM but don't want to spend "that" much money, OSSC seems like the way to go. Just being aware of the existence of devices such as the Framemeister is a proof that you care about quality, connection and video signals. That alone should let you to choose a cheaper alternative like the OSSC without sacrifice to quality
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Re: Good, cheap alternatives to the Framemeister?...

Post by dave4shmups »

nmalinoski wrote:What, exactly, do you need? Do you need something that can convert 50Hz to 60Hz? Do PAL->NTSC conversion? Something to simply connect your consoles to an OSSC or RetroTINK 2X? Do you specifically need RGB or YPbPr? Do you want a switch so you can keep your consoles connected? Do you have any preexisting need for a specific connector type like SCART, DE-15/VGA, RCA, or BNC; or are you starting fresh?
All I want is something that converts a PAL video signal to NTSC-I don’t care if it’s composite. I have a good Sony Trinitron tube TV, as well as a Samsung HDTV. The OSSC is too expensive, given the prices I saw through a Google search. The other one, I forget the name, needs a case-I don’t want an exposed PCB that has no case to protect it from things like dust.
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Re: Good, cheap alternatives to the Framemeister?...

Post by AndehX »

You're limiting yourself alot then. Really the only thing that fits your description is the retro-tink. My guess is $100 is too expensive for you though. (imo $100 is too expensive for what the retro tink does)
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Re: Good, cheap alternatives to the Framemeister?...

Post by nmalinoski »

AndehX wrote:You're limiting yourself alot then. Really the only thing that fits your description is the retro-tink. My guess is $100 is too expensive for you though. (imo $100 is too expensive for what the retro tink does)
The RT2X doesn't do any PAL->NTSC conversion.
dave4shmups wrote:All I want is something that converts a PAL video signal to NTSC-I don’t care if it’s composite. I have a good Sony Trinitron tube TV, as well as a Samsung HDTV. The OSSC is too expensive, given the prices I saw through a Google search.
PAL to NTSC conversion is affordable if you don't care about image quality. These days, analogue video processors and scalers like the ones you're asking for are either affordable and crap or quality and expensive (and sometimes unobtainable because the rest of the world has moved on to HDMI and globally-standard HD formats).

You can get one of these bidirectional composite converters for $17 USD, or spend a little more if you want something with HDMI output. If image quality is a concern, you should focus on finding a display that can handle 576i/p and 50Hz and either get an RT2X or increase your budget for a Framemeister.

The OSSC doesn't do any PAL->NTSC conversion. The primary purpose of the OSSC is to digitize RGB and YPbPr sources for use on HDMI displays--it's entirely up to the display to support the signal it generates, and, unless you have a newer 4K TV that somehow has no problem with 576i/p or 50Hz, the OSSC isn't going to help you play your PAL consoles on your NTSC TV.

I believe the Framemeister will do PAL->NTSC conversion, but, if the OSSC is out of your budget (My 1.6 model cost me about $220 USD shipped to the US from Video Game Perfection), the Framemeister is more so, and it won't help you display PAL signals on your CRT.
dave4shmups wrote:The other one, I forget the name, needs a case-I don’t want an exposed PCB that has no case to protect it from things like dust.
If you're referring to the RT2X, production models come with an acrylic-sandwich-type case, much like the OSSC.
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Re: Good, cheap alternatives to the Framemeister?...

Post by orange808 »

What consoles were released as PAL exclusives? I never researched it.

What roms are PAL exclusive with no NTSC hacks available? Are there any?

Given that Japan and the US used versions of NTSC, what's the point?
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Re: Good, cheap alternatives to the Framemeister?...

Post by AndehX »

nmalinoski wrote:The RT2X doesn't do any PAL->NTSC conversion.
I know, but neither does the Framemeister or the OSSC....
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Re: Good, cheap alternatives to the Framemeister?...

Post by orange808 »

AndehX wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:The RT2X doesn't do any PAL->NTSC conversion.
I know, but neither does the Framemeister or the OSSC....
I do not own a Framemeister to test, but I thought it had an unlocked mode for frame rate conversion.
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nmalinoski
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Re: Good, cheap alternatives to the Framemeister?...

Post by nmalinoski »

AndehX wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:The RT2X doesn't do any PAL->NTSC conversion.
I know, but neither does the Framemeister or the OSSC....
You should've kept reading.
nmalinoski wrote:The OSSC doesn't do any PAL->NTSC conversion.
nmalinoski wrote:I believe the Framemeister will do PAL->NTSC conversion...
On further research, the Framemeister can be set to either 50Hz or 60Hz output ('Configuring the Mini', HDMI_OUTPUT menu), and sounds like it will perform framerate conversion on 50Hz (PAL) sources when set to 60Hz output; so it does exactly what you're asking for.
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Re: Good, cheap alternatives to the Framemeister?...

Post by dave4shmups »

nmalinoski wrote:
AndehX wrote:You're limiting yourself alot then. Really the only thing that fits your description is the retro-tink. My guess is $100 is too expensive for you though. (imo $100 is too expensive for what the retro tink does)
The RT2X doesn't do any PAL->NTSC conversion.
dave4shmups wrote:All I want is something that converts a PAL video signal to NTSC-I don’t care if it’s composite. I have a good Sony Trinitron tube TV, as well as a Samsung HDTV. The OSSC is too expensive, given the prices I saw through a Google search.
PAL to NTSC conversion is affordable if you don't care about image quality. These days, analogue video processors and scalers like the ones you're asking for are either affordable and crap or quality and expensive (and sometimes unobtainable because the rest of the world has moved on to HDMI and globally-standard HD formats).

You can get one of these bidirectional composite converters for $17 USD, or spend a little more if you want something with HDMI output. If image quality is a concern, you should focus on finding a display that can handle 576i/p and 50Hz and either get an RT2X or increase your budget for a Framemeister.

The OSSC doesn't do any PAL->NTSC conversion. The primary purpose of the OSSC is to digitize RGB and YPbPr sources for use on HDMI displays--it's entirely up to the display to support the signal it generates, and, unless you have a newer 4K TV that somehow has no problem with 576i/p or 50Hz, the OSSC isn't going to help you play your PAL consoles on your NTSC TV.

I believe the Framemeister will do PAL->NTSC conversion, but, if the OSSC is out of your budget (My 1.6 model cost me about $220 USD shipped to the US from Video Game Perfection), the Framemeister is more so, and it won't help you display PAL signals on your CRT.
dave4shmups wrote:The other one, I forget the name, needs a case-I don’t want an exposed PCB that has no case to protect it from things like dust.
If you're referring to the RT2X, production models come with an acrylic-sandwich-type case, much like the OSSC.
OK, thanks for the advice. I’d like to import an Amiga CD32; if I ever find one for under $500.00. I’ve also thought about importing the Amstrad GX4000, and some model of the ZX Spectrum computer. The problem with the GX4000 is that, AFIK, it doesn’t have composite video out-I think it’s just SCART and RF. I have nothing against emulating the Amstrad line of computers, since they were never released here in the USA.
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Re: Good, cheap alternatives to the Framemeister?...

Post by nmalinoski »

dave4shmups wrote:OK, thanks for the advice. I’d like to import an Amiga CD32; if I ever find one for under $500.00. I’ve also thought about importing the Amstrad GX4000, and some model of the ZX Spectrum computer. The problem with the GX4000 is that, AFIK, it doesn’t have composite video out-I think it’s just SCART and RF. I have nothing against emulating the Amstrad line of computers, since they were never released here in the USA.
Don't confuse SCART with the video formats it carries; SCART can accommodate all of composite, YC (S-Video), and RGBS (and sometimes YPbPr), though not at the same time.

Looks like the 8-pin DIN on the regular PAL GX4000 (as long as it's not a French/SECAM model) outputs RGBS, using sync-on-composite; so you should be able to get a video cable (or get one made) that just taps into that sync line to get composite video. You might even be able to find a cable with RCA connectors instead of SCART. Just keep in mind that you'll want RGBS for the best picture quality, if you're interested in that.
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Re: Good, cheap alternatives to the Framemeister?...

Post by mvsfan »

I thought the Extron DVS-304 VGA series would have been a good alternative to framemeister but as far as im concerned they are junk.

there is something about them that causes my tv to shut off by itself after about 5 minutes.

Next, i am going to buy the DVI version of this scaler and convert it to hdmi using an adapter. I think it might work better instead.
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Re: Good, cheap alternatives to the Framemeister?...

Post by dave4shmups »

One solution that would work would be to buy a PVM. A lot of retro gamers love them for their picture quality, but some (if not all) are PAL compatible. However they’re pretty expensive, and have weird looking video inputs.
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Re: Good, cheap alternatives to the Framemeister?...

Post by dseleski »

dave4shmups wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:What, exactly, do you need? Do you need something that can convert 50Hz to 60Hz? Do PAL->NTSC conversion? Something to simply connect your consoles to an OSSC or RetroTINK 2X? Do you specifically need RGB or YPbPr? Do you want a switch so you can keep your consoles connected? Do you have any preexisting need for a specific connector type like SCART, DE-15/VGA, RCA, or BNC; or are you starting fresh?
All I want is something that converts a PAL video signal to NTSC-I don’t care if it’s composite. I have a good Sony Trinitron tube TV, as well as a Samsung HDTV. The OSSC is too expensive, given the prices I saw through a Google search. The other one, I forget the name, needs a case-I don’t want an exposed PCB that has no case to protect it from things like dust.
What consoles are you importing?
*edit - read one of them was an Amiga Cd32. Never had one so I don’t know if it has optional 60hz modes, probably not but I’ll leave the following info in the post anyways just in case.

If it’s a PAL GameCube those have selectable 60hz output, of it’s some others like SNES they’re easily convertible to 60hz - and you actually would *want* to use RGB in this instance as you’d have a compatible scaler in that you’d have no difficulties with the PAL chroma frequency in composite video.

Only prob is if say, you are looking to play a PAL only game on say, SNES there is built in 50Hz detection in the import protection on later games that doorslams you out of playing if your console is 60hz. So it’s not as easy as it sounds.

Those cheap scalers on amazon are afaik pal composite video/50hz rgb compatible but they are indeed god awful.

A PVM does indeed work in 50hz (most? All?) but the price of them is getting up there.

If the GBS 8200 works in PAL... and I haven’t tried it then yep this might be still the only option if you’re staying in 50hz mode.
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