Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

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NJRoadfan
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by NJRoadfan »

The biggest problems I've found with plasmas is reliability. A lot of the Panasonics have problems with the SC board (Y-Sustain) frying out and replacement parts can be hard to find. Rebuilding the things isn't exactly cheap either ($100+ for a professional rebuild). After the SC board on my TC-P50G25 failed a 2nd time, it got trashed.
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Shelcoof
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by Shelcoof »

FinalBaton wrote:I was talking canadian indeed

Those would be good prices for the sets I mentionned

At $200 I'd have to think about it if it were to be a secondary set (mayyyyyyybe I'd cave in). But if it were to be my main set, than I'd be totally fine shelling $200. Bargain them , of course. Oh and check for burn in when you get there

I'm going to Hull to check out a Samsung 37inch Plasma for 25$. Does have Burn In apparently but for 25$ I won't really care. If I end up liking the Plasma, I can go ahead and hunt down a nicer one.

Seems like a good way to get my feet wet.

Fudoh wrote:
BHP has Sony's OLEDs starting around $4k (US) for a 17" monitor and over $5k for a 25". I think that safely places them outside any reasonable budget (and thus any lag tests or similar).
I have two 25" OLED PVMs. After all the 2nd hand pricing on these is very similar to what you're paying for a BVM D24 CRT - or even considerably less seeing the inflated CRT prices on ebay lately. I intended on doing a review sometime later this year.
Looking forward to those reviews!

NJRoadfan wrote:The biggest problems I've found with plasmas is reliability. A lot of the Panasonics have problems with the SC board (Y-Sustain) frying out and replacement parts can be hard to find. Rebuilding the things isn't exactly cheap either ($100+ for a professional rebuild). After the SC board on my TC-P50G25 failed a 2nd time, it got trashed.
Just out of curiosity.... how many Plasmas have you owned that have given you problems or is this information you collected from other peoples experience as well?

I'm not at all worried about the reliability of my purchase. These are just toys you throw out once they break :D
I'm just exploring something I missed out on and seeing what the fuss is really about.
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Einzelherz
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by Einzelherz »

I got super lucky after I moved and found a Panasonic P50S60 (50" version of the 42 I already had) locally for $150. Scooped it up super quick, calibrated it, and I'm very happy.

It does suffer from the same faint horizontal trails that my 42 has, but I couldn't care less.
Lord of Pirates
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by Lord of Pirates »

Fudoh wrote:
BHP has Sony's OLEDs starting around $4k (US) for a 17" monitor and over $5k for a 25". I think that safely places them outside any reasonable budget (and thus any lag tests or similar).
I have two 25" OLED PVMs. After all the 2nd hand pricing on these is very similar to what you're paying for a BVM D24 CRT - or even considerably less seeing the inflated CRT prices on ebay lately. I intended on doing a review sometime later this year.
Interesting, are they earlier models? I have a hard time believing anyone paid over $4k for a CRT but maybe someone was nutty enough to do it.
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Shelcoof
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by Shelcoof »

Einzelherz wrote:I got super lucky after I moved and found a Panasonic P50S60 (50" version of the 42 I already had) locally for $150. Scooped it up super quick, calibrated it, and I'm very happy.

It does suffer from the same faint horizontal trails that my 42 has, but I couldn't care less.
This thing about calibrating the Plasma? I better look into that

Just a question here though.

Found this one Plasma that a guy has been just bombarding me with messages begging for me to buy it lol.

It has a resolution 852x480

I'm wondering if a lower resolution Plasma like this would be have any benefits at all for retro gaming?
How would it affect more modern games that run at 1080p.

here's the link to the full specs

http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/Norcent-PT-4235.htm

I guess I'm asking because I sort of feel sorry for the guy lol
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bobrocks95
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by bobrocks95 »

Shelcoof wrote:
Einzelherz wrote:I got super lucky after I moved and found a Panasonic P50S60 (50" version of the 42 I already had) locally for $150. Scooped it up super quick, calibrated it, and I'm very happy.

It does suffer from the same faint horizontal trails that my 42 has, but I couldn't care less.
This thing about calibrating the Plasma? I better look into that

Just a question here though.

Found this one Plasma that a guy has been just bombarding me with messages begging for me to buy it lol.

It has a resolution 852x480

I'm wondering if a lower resolution Plasma like this would be have any benefits at all for retro gaming?
How would it affect more modern games that run at 1080p.

here's the link to the full specs

http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/Norcent-PT-4235.htm

I guess I'm asking because I sort of feel sorry for the guy lol
I use an 854x480 Panasonic plasma for some consoles. They're called EDTVs.

It's really nice for 480p content and 720p sources also look really good on it. 1080p is not supported though, just 1080i. I use mine for the original Xbox, Gamecube, and Wii (PS2 has too many 480i titles and 480i doesn't look very good on it).

It will probably be pretty laggy though just because of the age, mine has... 3 or 4 frames? Mine is a professional display though, meant for signage or something like that, so no game modes and lag was surely the last thing on their mind.
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Shelcoof
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by Shelcoof »

If the lag is anything like

My Sony bravia which has like 4 frames

And my Sony WEGA HD CRT has 3 frames of lag

I could live with it
Revolver Ocelot
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by Revolver Ocelot »

Lawfer wrote:
NoAffinity wrote:Advantages of plasmas: native retro inputs like s video, composite, and usually component and hdmi as well. Possibly also VGA.
LCD HDTV did have such support. At least the models in Europe did have Scart for RGB and S-Video etc, it also had VGA and Component.

Depends on the Modell . My 4k panasonic ex 604 bought in 2017 for example has no scart anymore. Just HDMI, Component and Composite. The Sony TV my parents bought in 2017 as well has a scart port but no Component.

There is indeed a certain Chance that some TVS will have still scart, but I would not count on that. It seems that they will Phase out Scart in the next couble of years. Same goes for Component unfortuantely.

And there is really a Chance to get some current gen TVS with VGA ports? Thats News to me. Have not seen a TV with VGA for ages. But maybe I was looking at the wrong places.
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D
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by D »

OLED is better, but only OLED. Until OLED came out plasma was king. Plasma always got a bad rep even since as early as 2008, people saying stuff like: "plasma is history and the power consumption is high"
Well until a few years ago, they were still being made and the power consumption thing, who cares 20euros per year. negligible.

So if you have the dough of course buy a OLED, if you don't get a plasma

One very important thing people never tend to talk about.
Several plasma tv's have grey side borders when playing 4:3 content.
AFAIK all Pioneer screens have this.
I think with most panasonic the side borders can be set to black.
So before you buy check not only the manual, but have it verified.
Point in case, I have a Pioneer 60: plasma LX6090. And before I bought it, I checked the manual. there is a setting for the side borders, but not to turn it black! So really check this.
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NoAffinity
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by NoAffinity »

Side borders can be set to black on hitachi. Oh, and VGA sources looked absolutely stunning on my hitachi. I forgot about that until mention of the side borders.
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Shelcoof
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by Shelcoof »

I didn't know they weren't black. However as long as the picture and colors look good I'd be happy.

I'm going to pick up a cheapo 25$ Samsung Plasma tomorrow! Soo hyped!!!!
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bobrocks95
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by bobrocks95 »

I can adjust the side bars on my Panasonic but I keep them on dark gray because I'm worried about uneven panel wear from all the 4:3 games I play on it...
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bigbadboaz
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by bigbadboaz »

Shelcoof wrote:I'm going to pick up a cheapo 25$ Samsung Plasma tomorrow!
congrats. No way in Hell you're gonna regret a $25 panel.
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Shelcoof
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by Shelcoof »

I ended up paying only 20$

Thoughts on the Panel..... the burn in was pretty bad but the colors were pretty damn good.

It's a shame the panel had some serious burn in because I would have loved to use this in one of my gaming set ups.

I'll write up a better review later when I fiddle around more with the thing
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Einzelherz
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by Einzelherz »

Re: burn in - it can't hurt to run a few hours of burn in reduction videos on it. YT has them in several resolutions and I've used them in the past to lessen the retention (specifically from playing to much Final Fantasy).
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NoAffinity
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by NoAffinity »

^This is a good point. My plasma had a burn in elimination process detailed in the manual. If I recall, it was simply displaying a solid white screen for something like 15 minutes, rinsing and repeating.
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Josh128
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by Josh128 »

The 2013 and 2014 Samsung models are fantastic if you can get them at a good price. Still rockin' 3 of them in my house, still no burn in on any of them. My original "A" model (2013) just developed an issue where it will not display an HDMI input unless its from a PC (how weird is that??), but all the other inputs including the ATSC antenna inputs still work fine. I just ordered a video board from Ebay to see if that solves the issue. Very strange.

My son plays Fortnite on a 2014 51" F4500 model daily and its rockin with no burn in whatsoever, and looks fantastic.
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cargo
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by cargo »

I had a Sony plasma HDTV during the 2000s. One thing that broke periodically was an inner lamp that lights up the plasma display. As the 2010s progressed it became harder and more expensive to find replacements. Eventually one of the motherboards inside the TV malfunctioned. I spend about $200 USD trying to get it repaired. At that point I stopped throwing money at it. For a little more I could have bought a new unit of bigger size. It's huge and bulky and still have not found a recycling center near my town that will take it.

When it was working though it was great. Not as bright as today's HDTVs but with a tendency for warmer colors (even when playing with the TV's settings for cooler tones). Personally I didn't like the matte look it gave on the video game systems I tried (systems of the time e.g. PS2, xbox, GC) but for normal TV viewing it was nice. You could look at it from any angle without image loss. In terms of analog ports it had them all (composite, s-video, component, and HDMI) but similar to today's TV's the analog signals from video game systems didn't look as good as HDMI.

If you like your videogame graphics to look shiny and bright you might want to check it out first before buying.
Shelcoof wrote:I've been seeing tons of old Plasma HDTVs on local classifieds lately and I've been tempted to pick one or two up for gaming.

I hear Plasma offers image quality closer to a CRT and blur isn't really an issue.

So my question here is that should I pick a cheap one up or wait for something better like OLED?

Most important thing for me is input lag followed by image quality.

I intend to hook up all my game systems to the Plasma TV

PS3/Xbox 360
Retro Consoles via the OSSC

Any input would be awesome :D
NJRoadfan
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by NJRoadfan »

cargo wrote:I had a Sony plasma HDTV during the 2000s. One thing that broke periodically was an inner lamp that lights up the plasma display. As the 2010s progressed it became harder and more expensive to find replacements. Eventually one of the motherboards inside the TV malfunctioned. I spend about $200 USD trying to get it repaired. At that point I stopped throwing money at it. For a little more I could have bought a new unit of bigger size. It's huge and bulky and still have not found a recycling center near my town that will take it.
Plasma TVs don't have bulbs. Sony did make a series of "SXRD" LCD rear projection TVs however. A friend of mine had one and reliability was lousy too.
bigbadboaz
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by bigbadboaz »

And I'm pretty sure Sony was never in the plasma game..? Went all-in on LCD with Samsung and a joint factory.
NJRoadfan
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by NJRoadfan »

Sony did make plasma TVs at one time, looks like they ended production in 2004.
22point8
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by 22point8 »

Sony plasmas were Hitachi ALis (alternate lighting of surfaces) panels.

I think when Fujitsu exited the plasma market Pioneer bought all their patents and tech, and when Pioneer exited Panasonic bought all their patents and tech.
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Shelcoof
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by Shelcoof »

Model Number I have is a

Samsung PPM42M7HB Plasma
Manufactured in 2008

Colors look great... way better than any LCD Panel I've seen to date. Plasma Panel looks like a CRT screen when turned off. Its grey and not Black like an LCD Panel.

Resolution is a bit weird. For some reason I can't display 720p and 1080p but it works with 480p and another resolution I forget.

No HDMI in... only DVI, VGA, Component and S-Video

Input lag doesn't seem any different than the HD TVs I have now.

480p content looks amazing. Booted up the Dreamcast and just blew me away how good it looked. Compared it to my Sony Bravia HDTV and wow what a difference.

I could see myself hunting down a good Plasma TV at some point.
Real shame this one has so much burn in and two rows of dead pixels
Revolver Ocelot
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by Revolver Ocelot »

After reading all the Infos about Plasma TVs I am tempted to get a cheap Plasma as well as a stop gap solution till the Oled TVS with HDMI 2.1 are available.

Back then when Plasma was still a relevant I was more the LCD fanboy to be honest because I was worried about the burn in danger when playing games but afte some research the problem is a bit excgarated.

It still a good thing to be careful I think.

What type of Plasma Generation is the best thing for games? Do you recommend to look for the latest gen Plasma Displays or would be better to try to hunt down some earleir models?
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Gara
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by Gara »

Revolver Ocelot wrote:After reading all the Infos about Plasma TVs I am tempted to get a cheap Plasma as well as a stop gap solution till the Oled TVS with HDMI 2.1 are available.

Back then when Plasma was still a relevant I was more the LCD fanboy to be honest because I was worried about the burn in danger when playing games but afte some research the problem is a bit excgarated.

It still a good thing to be careful I think.

What type of Plasma Generation is the best thing for games? Do you recommend to look for the latest gen Plasma Displays or would be better to try to hunt down some earleir models?
The 2 big dogs of Plasma are the Pioneer Kuros and the Samsung F8500's. The Samsung are not that old. Any model of those you can get cheaply. They are only beat out in picture quality by oled so not a lot make it to market as owners continue to hold out I've seen a 60“ f8500 for as low as 250. I'd probably pay $500 for a 64" model. People generally want more.
Revolver Ocelot
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by Revolver Ocelot »

Thanks for the advice Gara. In that case I will check out the Samsungs. They look great indeed. :)

Also have read good Things about the Pioneer TVS but they are harder to find. So looking for the Samsung is a much smarter choice.
kel
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by kel »

The Samsung F8500 looks great for TV and for Gaming. It has a softer natural look to the picture that is closer to CRT than any other plasma I've tried. If I had to choose between that set and my Panasonic VT65B of the same year I would choose the F8500 without thinking twice. Unfortunately they both have relatively high lag with the Panasonic at about 42ms and the Samsung even worse at 65ms although you could knock about 16ms off those figures IMHO due to the fact that it's not really fair testing a fully drawn frame against a frame that has just started which is what the Bodnar tester seems to do with plasma TVs.
Revolver Ocelot
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by Revolver Ocelot »

Did some more research about the f8500 now and it seems that will the Plasma I want to have. I just need to research now how the model is called here in Europe . Also need to find out if the european equivalent has the features than the US model. Or if we Europeans got a scaled down version?

Anybody of you using LG Plasma here in the forum? What do you think about them?
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citrus3000psi
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by citrus3000psi »

Revolver Ocelot wrote:
Anybody of you using LG Plasma here in the forum? What do you think about them?
I have 60" 2013 LG plasma. I got it because it was pretty cheap and needed something to replace a pioneer unit. I've heard the input lag is high, but haven't tested myself. Maybe my biggest complaint is that that if forces grey bars for 4:3 modes. I cannot select black (I'm assuming this is to help with burn in) But its very annoying. I could hookup a video processor to take care of it but that is more lag.

It does handle all resolutions I've thrown at it.
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FinalBaton
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Re: Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

Post by FinalBaton »

If the 8500 was made in smaller size, you can bet I'd be using one right now. lol

Altought the lag is high-ish... for sports and movies it must be awesome
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